4 Nations Face-Off

[7+6=13]

13 minutes ago, inkman said:

Obviously not much comparison between Sabres hockey and 4 Nations.  Other than both are called hockey.  Its ends there.  
 

This tournament is just a stark reminder that Buffalo has no current path to success.  No one they have in the wings is coming to save the franchise.  No Russian Wunderkind is getting smuggled into the country to rescue the org.  The guys on the roster aren’t it, the prospects aren’t it and no one they draft will be reaching this franchise.  
 

They shot their wad.  Four top 2 picks and all they have to show worth a damn is Dahlin.  

To me we're not as far away from being good as it feels.  My issue is the 4-5 type of players we NEED aren't attainable for our organization.  The only way is/was through the draft and it didn't/hasn't happened and feels like we're stuck again.

[inkman]

11 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

To me we're not as far away from being good as it feels.  My issue is the 4-5 type of players we NEED aren't attainable for our organization.  The only way is/was through the draft and it didn't/hasn't happened and feels like we're stuck again.

Right and those players were supposed to be Dylan, Tage, Owen and Dahlin. I give Dahlin a lot of *****, usually not entirely deserved, but he’s the only guy of the four I have any inkling he’ll be a part of the solution in Buffalo.  
 

Whoever else is going to “be the change” within the org aren’t here yet.  Adams isn’t instilling confidence that he can of will fix it.  So….

[Broken Ankles]

42 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

Man, it's really going to be hard to watch Sabres games after watching these games. 1 turnover and I'll be like " Come on Connor Clifton you need to be more like Werenski you loser" I can already see this coming. 

It’s not even the talent or speed. It’s the compete level.  Everyone was finishing checks.  Effort level was extremely high.
 

The game McAvoy played makes me think of how badly the Sabres scouting department missed on the 2016 draft.  He was dominant.  I hate he plays for Boston.

oh, and F U Linus. 

[7+6=13]

8 minutes ago, inkman said:

Right and those players were supposed to be Dylan, Tage, Owen and Dahlin. I give Dahlin a lot of *****, usually not entirely deserved, but he’s the only guy of the four I have any inkling he’ll be a part of the solution in Buffalo.  
 

Whoever else is going to “be the change” within the org aren’t here yet.  Adams isn’t instilling confidence that he can of will fix it.  So….

This is just my opinion but I don't think Adams can do a whole lot about it and I don't even mean because he's being handcuffed internally.  I just don't think the players we need can be obtained by the Sabres.  

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

To me we're not as far away from being good as it feels.  My issue is the 4-5 type of players we NEED aren't attainable for our organization.  The only way is/was through the draft and it didn't/hasn't happened and feels like we're stuck again.

We do this repeatedly and will likely do it again. We never take the leap or step forward at the critical moment because we wait for our development prospects rather than going out and getting players we need. 

I mean I think every single poster here said we need a top 6 winger and/or a 2C and a defensive partner for Power and everyone here has said it for a long time. It's obvious. Many of us have also said we are too soft and Ruff said he wanted a "guy who could chuck 'em" and we didn't address that either even though he said he wanted it so clearly Adams does not do what his coach wants. 

The problem is that by the time enough prospects develop (even if you have the right kind of players in the system) somebody else will lose their love or want out or just get unaffordable and so it goes forever step forward step back and forever on the outside. 

[North Buffalo]

9 hours ago, Thorner said:

 

Agreed the skill level, compete level, passing on the tape, defensive awareness has been insane and any time there is a mistake, which is not very often, there is a score... 

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, inkman said:

Obviously not much comparison between Sabres hockey and 4 Nations.  Other than both are called hockey.  Its ends there.  
 

This tournament is just a stark reminder that Buffalo has no current path to success.  No one they have in the wings is coming to save the franchise.  No Russian Wunderkind is getting smuggled into the country to rescue the org.  The guys on the roster aren’t it, the prospects aren’t it and no one they draft will be reaching this franchise.  
 

They shot their wad.  Four top 2 picks and all they have to show worth a damn is Dahlin.  

Most NHL games, even among the top teams and rivals, are not played at the level of the USA v Canada games.  Playoffs can get to that level as the stakes go up. 

No one player saves a team.  Gretzky, Lemuiex (sp), Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane - they all had help, and lots of help.  

It is sad that they wasted Reinhart and Eichel.  They never brought in the right veteran leadership or developed the glue players.  None of the GMs and coaches under Pegula were qualified to take on a tear down/ tank and rebuild.  None of the coaches were good enough.  The players know it, and that is the only reason we cannot  get the right players, the Sabres are not a serious franchise.  

Look at Hagel.   A guy we drafted and never even looked it, never had an ELC to play a game in Rochester.  Isn’t he exactly what this team needs?   Who from Canada’s team offered to take on Matt Tkachuck?   Hagel.  Yeah, we need a guy like that. He more than held his own too.   I guess he fell through the crack of Boterill and Adams?   

So many good players come and go and the Sabres continue to be irrelevant.  

[Dr. Who]

18 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Most NHL games, even among the top teams and rivals, are not played at the level of the USA v Canada games.  Playoffs can get to that level as the stakes go up. 

No one player saves a team.  Gretzky, Lemuiex (sp), Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane - they all had help, and lots of help.  

It is sad that they wasted Reinhart and Eichel.  They never brought in the right veteran leadership or developed the glue players.  None of the GMs and coaches under Pegula were qualified to take on a tear down/ tank and rebuild.  None of the coaches were good enough.  The players know it, and that is the only reason we cannot  get the right players, the Sabres are not a serious franchise.  

Look at Hagel.   A guy we drafted and never even looked it, never had an ELC to play a game in Rochester.  Isn’t he exactly what this team needs?   Who from Canada’s team offered to take on Matt Tkachuck?   Hagel.  Yeah, we need a guy like that. He more than held his own too.   I guess he fell through the crack of Boterill and Adams?   

So many good players come and go and the Sabres continue to be irrelevant.  

Green checkmark and angry face. It's so discouraging to have Terry Pegula as the owner, though I'm grateful the Sabres are in Buffalo. Less so if they are going to be perpetually a source of disappointment and league-wide embarrassment. It's painful to remember when the crest inspired respect and enthusiasm. One of the best in all of sports, imo, and now it's associated with historic ineptitude and teams that are soft and unloveable.

The only hope I can fathom is KA goes away and Pegula is serious enough to bring in real, competent hockey minds. That would require giving a damn, and not being cheap. Alas, that seems so out of character, one can hardly imagine it.

[shrader]

39 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

Look at Hagel.   A guy we drafted and never even looked it, never had an ELC to play a game in Rochester.  Isn’t he exactly what this team needs?   Who from Canada’s team offered to take on Matt Tkachuck?   Hagel.  Yeah, we need a guy like that. He more than held his own too.   I guess he fell through the crack of Boterill and Adams?   

So many good players come and go and the Sabres continue to be irrelevant.  

The thing with Hagel is that we weren’t the only ones to pass on him. He went back into the draft and no one took him. That’s a late (last second) bloomer right there. It does also make you think a bit about wanting to move on from some players at such young ages. 

[DarthEbriate]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Not saying it's right or wrong but it's obvious the Swedish coach doesn't trust him. Prefers the veteran. 

I've been thinking about this 3,2,1 pt system though and I kind of like it. Rewarding regulation wins over OT wins could perhaps give you a more accurate point total on the season. A little less reliance on having a big 3 for OT and more reliance on actually winning games 5 on 5. 

I don't think it can be argued that Dahlin isn't a veteran at this point in his career, but his D coaching on the Sabres is probably lesser than the other players representing Sweden.

But although Dahlin is a NHL vet, he's way younger than any other D on Team Sweden. Karlsson, Ekholm, and Hedman are all 34. Brodin 31. Forsling and Andersson (who hasn't dressed yet) are 28. Dahlin is Sweden's baby at 24.

I think Team Sweden may make some changes for the 2026 Olympics.

----

The 3-2-1 is perfect for a system with OT.

Just for fun: BUF would have 67 points right now; DET (final WC spot) would be at 82 points. BUF would 15 points back instead of 12 -- which is more accurate, in my estimation.

----

Re: USA-Canada. Had to watch it on delay. The fighting was a surprise to be sure, but a silly one. It was highly entertaining (and Hagel... bloody hell, JBott....). The good thing was they got it all out of their system and none of it carried onward in the game. Then, it was just fun high-speed hockey. Hellebuyck was ready and square for everything, like a bigger R.Miller.

[DarthEbriate]

12 hours ago, Pimlach said:

A healthy Tage would help this team, probably as a winger.  He needs to experience this, it would help him grow playing in games of this magnitude.  

This is why the Sabres so desperately need to make the playoffs as a franchise; so that they all get a taste of real-speed hockey. I don't know that anyone on the Sabres will make either US or Canada's 2026 Olympic roster; honestly, if I were the US/Canada GMs I wouldn't take anyone who didn't have Stanley Cup playoff experience.

[JohnC]

35 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Most NHL games, even among the top teams and rivals, are not played at the level of the USA v Canada games.  Playoffs can get to that level as the stakes go up. 

No one player saves a team.  Gretzky, Lemuiex (sp), Crosby, Ovechkin, Kane - they all had help, and lots of help.  

It is sad that they wasted Reinhart and Eichel.  They never brought in the right veteran leadership or developed the glue players.  None of the GMs and coaches under Pegula were qualified to take on a tear down/ tank and rebuild.  None of the coaches were good enough.  The players know it, and that is the only reason we cannot  get the right players, the Sabres are not a serious franchise.  

Look at Hagel.   A guy we drafted and never even looked it, never had an ELC to play a game in Rochester.  Isn’t he exactly what this team needs?   Who from Canada’s team offered to take on Matt Tkachuck?   Hagel.  Yeah, we need a guy like that. He more than held his own too.   I guess he fell through the crack of Boterill and Adams?   

So many good players come and go and the Sabres continue to be irrelevant.  

This was an offseason where if the earnest but lacking GM would have made a few more Zucker type moves, this team would be vying for a playoff position. (We should be around 10 pts better than where we currently stand.) I'm not suggesting this team/roster was close to being a serious Cup contender because it is not. But with a few more mid-level veteran upgrades this team would be in a meaningful playoff race. And does anyone not believe that adding a rugged veteran defenseman would have been beneficial for the blueline unit? 

None of these suggested additions would fall in the tough to acquire upper echelon players. This was doable. A competent GM makes these types of additions in the offseason after assessing his players play as part of his normal duties. What makes the Sabre situation even tougher to tolerate is that after nearly a generation of not making the playoffs you would expect a sense of urgency to end such an embarrassing streak of failure. Instead of exhibiting a determination to end this ignominious record, there is a baffling blase attitude of continue doing what we have been doing. 

I blame the owner for this unnecessary and stupid situation. The silent owner through his incompetence has damaged this franchise. He should be ashamed of himself. 

[DarthEbriate]

12 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

World Championships against

men. Again he would be fine out there.

Two things of note about the 2024 WCs that Power most recently participated in:

1. It was in May -- a few players arrived from Stanley Cup quarterfinal losers, but basically it was only players from non-playoff teams.
2. USA and Canada never met. They were in separate Groups and the US was knocked out in the quarterfinals. (Canada finished 4th.)

Power never saw anything remotely close to last night's game in either World Championship he played in. (The 2020-21 WC rosters were even less interesting.)

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

Green checkmark and angry face. It's so discouraging to have Terry Pegula as the owner, though I'm grateful the Sabres are in Buffalo. Less so if they are going to be perpetually a source of disappointment and league-wide embarrassment. It's painful to remember when the crest inspired respect and enthusiasm. One of the best in all of sports, imo, and now it's associated with historic ineptitude and teams that are soft and unloveable.

The only hope I can fathom is KA goes away and Pegula is serious enough to bring in real, competent hockey minds. That would require giving a damn, and not being cheap. Alas, that seems so out of character, one can hardly imagine it.

I was thinking about having Eichel, Reinhart and Hagel right now on this team. 

Sure, lots of teams passed on Hagel but we drafted him, had his rights,  and should have known more about him and maybe at least given him a look.  

Do you remember when we had Perreault, Martin, and Robert all going to All Star games and Team Canada series?  There was no free agency.  The GM knew what a good hockey player looked like and how to construct a roster.  

[SwampD]

I think this is what hockey could look like a lot more often if the NHL wasn’t watered down by over-expansion to chase more money. I don’t even know what to say if these idiots try to go to 34 teams.

[SabreFinn]

16 hours ago, SwampD said:

Do fans of a team show up whether or not the team is good?

It is all based on the results. There are always loyal fans that show up no matter what, usually grumpy old men. But if the arena is full or half is all on the results. With all the amount of different sports on television these days I think it is easier to stay home and get good entertainment that way.

[SabreFinn]

8 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I think this is what hockey could look like a lot more often if the NHL wasn’t watered down by over-expansion to chase more money. I don’t even know what to say if these idiots try to go to 34 teams.

The Finnish Liiga has been ruined this way. There are way too many teams and not enough of good players. Young players are pushed into the league as cheap players to fill out the roster. They learn the needed tactics but skating will not be develop to the level it should be.

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I think this is what hockey could look like a lot more often if the NHL wasn’t watered down by over-expansion to chase more money. I don’t even know what to say if these idiots try to go to 34 teams.

The economics of all pro sports won't go back to shorter seasons. And now the NFL is pushing to add another game to the 17 game season. As much as many players complain about the too long seasons, they won't take proportional cuts in their salaries for shorter seasons. If you think the effort level in the regular season for hockey is bad, you should consider the state of affairs in the NBA. Star players sit out games for "maintenance" reasons. There are plenty of games where both teams are simply going through the motions until the end of the game where they then elevate their efforts. In fairness, the fans should be reimbursed for wasting their time and $$$$ attending such fraudulent games.  

[Pimlach]

14 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I think this is what hockey could look like a lot more often if the NHL wasn’t watered down by over-expansion to chase more money. I don’t even know what to say if these idiots try to go to 34 teams.

The NHL regular season was definitely better when there were less teams.   I think the season needs to be shorter and the playoffs need to end by the end of April.  Of course this means less money to distribute, so it won't happen. 

In the US most cities/regions stop watching hockey when their team is eliminated, then they switch to baseball and golf and the outdooors.   

Canada probably has a higher percentage of diehards watching the entire playoff but a Canadian team has not won a cup since 1993 and there have been only 6 that even played in the finals since then.   This trend cannot be good for the game in the long run.  

Less teams means more familiarity and more rivalries, it all helps to generate more intensity and better games.  

Too much expansion ruined the NBA and it is ruining the NHL too.  

Yeah, I guess I am getting old, but that is how I see it.   Less is more.  

[SwampD]

58 minutes ago, SabreFinn said:

It is all based on the results. There are always loyal fans that show up no matter what, usually grumpy old men. But if the arena is full or half is all on the results. With all the amount of different sports on television these days I think it is easier to stay home and get good entertainment that way.

I think that this is why the NHL will never adopt the 3, 2, 1, 0 points system. It looks like a tighter race when the point totals are closer. They want there to be the appearance of teams being able to get back into the playoffs to keep fans interested.

Edited February 16 by SwampD

[CallawaySabres]

11 hours ago, inkman said:

Obviously not much comparison between Sabres hockey and 4 Nations.  Other than both are called hockey.  Its ends there.  
 

This tournament is just a stark reminder that Buffalo has no current path to success.  No one they have in the wings is coming to save the franchise.  No Russian Wunderkind is getting smuggled into the country to rescue the org.  The guys on the roster aren’t it, the prospects aren’t it and no one they draft will be reaching this franchise.  
 

They shot their wad.  Four top 2 picks and all they have to show worth a damn is Dahlin.  

I certainly did not need to see this tournament to remind me how awful Buffalo still is. It did however give me a chance to enjoy hockey again for one night.

Im pretty sure it’s the first full game I have seen in over 2 years.

[Wyldnwoody44]

I have family over so I just peeped the score through the first 2 periods, but once my neices passed out (after making them watch Princess Bride, of course) I watched the 3rd. 

Very good D against those speedy and skilled forwards, but I was also a little sad seeing a full 20 minute alamo mode. 

[SabreFinn]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

I think that this is why the NHL will never adopt the 3, 2, 1, 0 points system. It looks like a tighter race when the point totals are closer. They want there to be the appearance of teams being able to get back into the playoffs to keep fans interested.

Understandable. I, who is used to soccer and Liiga where there is more points available, have been fooled to think there might be a chance. And then after some calculating realize that there isn't.

[inkman]

40 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

I certainly did not need to see this tournament to remind me how awful Buffalo still is. It did however give me a chance to enjoy hockey again for one night.

Im pretty sure it’s the first full game I have seen in over 2 years.

It’s not that the Sabres are awful, they are, it’s that they are never going to be good.  I’m 53 and I don’t think this team will be good again until I’m gone. 
 

They’ve made every wrong move a franchise can make and are doubling down on those efforts. They’ve removed every player with an ounce of character and filled their roles with children who were handsomely rewarded for “wanting to be here”.  
 

I’m to find a reason to have a glimmer of hope. This team has acted in a manner that would lend one to believe they are trying to lose fans.  
 

It’s not hard to appease WNY hockey fans. Draft and develop tough good players who play the right way and play with intensity.  Instead they draft disinterested eating disorder candidates who run to mommy whenever things get ugly.  I hate this team so much.  They are the opposite of anything I’d ever want to root for.  How does a WNY native who played in a mucker role not understand this?  I’m wondering if he’s brain damaged or clinically stupid.  

[Jorcus]

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

I think this is what hockey could look like a lot more often if the NHL wasn’t watered down by over-expansion to chase more money. I don’t even know what to say if these idiots try to go to 34 teams.

There is a counter balance to the watered down argument that the league has many more players from Europe and Russia now than when it was smaller. I think there are enough good players around. I don't really want more expansion but If they do there are enough bodies.