GDT: Sabres @ Predators Feb 8, 2025 - 8:00PM, MSG 📺, WGR550 📻 🎙

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, Stoner said:

Why would they do that?

Who the hell knows; maybe its like the idiotic Texans playoff game where they chose to use common sense versus the actual rules and screwed us out of a TD. It's Buffalo sports; more often than not, we will get shafted by refs or their respective leagues 

Edited Sunday at 05:25 PM by thewookie1

[LabattBlue]

18 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

It's Buffalo sports; more often than not, we will get shafted by refs or their respective leagues 

More like a “woe is me” fanbase with a side order of misdirected anger.   

[DarthEbriate]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Season -

Ryan McLeod, 12g, 16a, +10, 51gp

Dylan Cozens, 11g, 16a, -18, 54gp

And it should be noted:

McLeod    PP ATOI:  0:06  (0 G, 0 A)

Cozens     PP ATOI:  2:24  (2 G, 2 A)    --> 6th highest ATOI on team

 

The 7th PP ATOI is Tuch with 0-5-5 PP pts. Everyone above Cozens (TNT, Zucker, Dahlin, JJP, Quinn) has at least 9 PP points. From Quinn at 2-7-9 up to Zucker 9-6-15. Cozens is a statistical dead spot on the PP -- but it was a nice shot on the PP goal vs Nashville. Quinn only gets 2:31 ATOI, so 7 more seconds.

[LGR4GM]

20 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

And it should be noted:

McLeod    PP ATOI:  0:06  (0 G, 0 A)

Cozens     PP ATOI:  2:24  (2 G, 2 A)    --> 6th highest ATOI on team

 

The 7th PP ATOI is Tuch with 0-5-5 PP pts. Everyone above Cozens (TNT, Zucker, Dahlin, JJP, Quinn) has at least 9 PP points. From Quinn at 2-7-9 up to Zucker 9-6-15. Cozens is a statistical dead spot on the PP -- but it was a nice shot on the PP goal vs Nashville. Quinn only gets 2:31 ATOI, so 7 more seconds.

Cozens continues to get pp time and it's just mind boggling. 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Cozens continues to get pp time and it's just mind boggling. 

Adams likes him, paid him, and he wants to right about him.  So Cozens gets an "A" and he gets every opportunity.   

He perceived ceiling and his size make him a player that gets preferential treatment.   I don't think Adams will trade him until he feels 100% certain he was wrong about him. 

I was a big fan of Cozens too, and I want Adams to be right.   Where I differ is I would be playing him as a 3rd line winger in hopes that the rest of his game comes along.  

What really concerns me is if Ruff concedes to Adams as far as ice time and the utilization of Cozens (or any palyer).  

[Thorner]

5 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

 It's Buffalo sports; more often than not, we will get shafted by refs or their respective leagues 

[mjd1001]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Cozens continues to get pp time and it's just mind boggling. 

4 powerplay goals by Cozens over the last 133 games despite being on pretty much every single powerplay. 1 goal every 33-34 games, whats not to like?

Over his career he has 746 minutes of PP ice time and 12 power play goals since he broke into the league.  106 other forwards in the leage have had over 700 minutes of power play ice time since Cozens came into the league. Where does Cozens rank in Powerplay goals amont those 106 players? He's 105th out of 106 (only Dylan Strome has less, and he only has 1 less, but makes up for it with 15 more pp assists than Cozens).

By most measures, he is the least productive forward in the league on the PowerPlay that still continues to get regular minutes.

Not exactly a history of tearing it up.

Edited Sunday at 11:10 PM by mjd1001

[JohnC]

36 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

4 powerplay goals by Cozens over the last 133 games despite being on pretty much every single powerplay. 1 goal every 33-34 games, whats not to like?

Over his career he has 746 minutes of PP ice time and 12 power play goals since he broke into the league.  106 other forwards in the leage have had over 700 minutes of power play ice time since Cozens came into the league. Where does Cozens rank in Powerplay goals amont those 106 players? He's 105th out of 106 (only Dylan Strome has less, and he only has 1 less, but makes up for it with 15 more pp assists than Cozens).

By most measures, he is the least productive forward in the league on the PowerPlay that still continues to get regular minutes.

Not exactly a history of tearing it up.

You can't look at the Cozens situation in isolation. The embarrassing reality is that if he were dealt to a competently run organization he would be placed in a situation where he would be a better player. Multiply that many times over regarding most of our young players. Jack Eichel recognized it, so did Reinhard, ROR and Ullmark etc. They wanted out and got out. 

The substantive issue is the owner and the organization that he has created/structured. The organization is structured and staffed the way he wanted it to be. There isn't a franchise in the NHL that not only wouldn't have hired KA to be their GM, let alone allow him to be interviewed. So five years after the peculiar GM hire what is the outcome? Check the standings. To save time start at the bottom. 

Without wasting time arguing whether Lindy was a good hire or not what is indisputable is that the process was a sham. Without a credible coaching search Ruff was selected to be behind the bench. Again, ask yourself, what other franchise would have gone through such a fake search for such a critical job that is a big factor in a team's success?

We have an incompetent owner who has destroyed the franchise and has demolished the already withering fanbase. Terry Pegula has become the NHL's version of Dan Snyder as a pro franchise owner (without the sleaze baggage). It's astounding to think how bad this franchise has been run for a generation, the length of Pegula's ownership.  

Stating the obvious: Incompetent owners who create a shambolic organization don't succeed. 

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

You can't look at the Cozens situation in isolation. The embarrassing reality is that if he were dealt to a competently run organization he would be placed in a situation where he would be a better player. Multiply that many times over regarding most of our young players. Jack Eichel recognized it, so did Reinhard, ROR and Ullmark etc. They wanted out and got out. 

I'm not looking at the Cozens situation in isolation. I am looking at him compared to all the other players he has played with.  If the organization is run so poorly, as you even said it impacts other players here like Eichel and Reinhart.  The issue with Cozens, of all the players here, he is so much worse than most of the other forwards that are on this team under the same coaching and organization.

If he is dealt he likely will do better on another team than he does here. That doesn't excuse the fact that for most of his career he has been one of the worst players on this team, in a way where he causes more harm than almost any of his other linemates/teammates.

The team is simply better on the ice when players like Thompson, and Tuch, and McLeod, and Peterka, and others are on the ice and Cozens is on the bench.

Edited Monday at 03:35 AM by mjd1001

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm not looking at the Cozens situation in isolation. I am looking at him compared to all the other players he has played with.  If the organization is run so poorly, as you even said it impacts other players here like Eichel and Reinhart.  The issue with Cozens, of all the players here, he is so much worse than most of the other forwards that are on this team under the same coaching and organization.

If he is dealt he likely will do better on another team than he does here. That doesn't excuse the fact that for most of his career he has been one of the worst players on this team, in a way where he causes more harm than almost any of his other linemates/teammates.

The team is simply better on the ice when players like Thompson, and Tuch, and McLeod, and Peterka, and others are on the ice and Cozens is on the bench.

Let's look at Cozens in isolation and also representative of how this organization has handled young players. Foremost, is that many of them have been rushed to the NHL. And secondly, because there has been a dearth of experience on this roster they are playing in higher roles than they are ready to assume. With Cozens, you can see him playing with a lot of pressure that he is putting on himself. A point is that there is in general a mishandling of young players that stunts their development. 

Our ill-equipped GM has publicly stated that his approach was not to block the young players with veteran players. Did that approach enhance their development or did it stunt it?  The expectation is that it would accelerate their development. Did it? There is no question that Levi was rushed. Would it have been better for them in general to have gotten more playing time with increased roles in the AHL? That is the normal approach for most franchises. There certainly are teams that play their highly draft players right away in the big league. But they don't do it to the extent that our flailing franchise does it. And for the most part they have more players who provide a support system for these fledging players. 

I'm comfortable in saying that if Cozens is traded to a competently run organization, he would be a better player for his new team compared to where he is now. The Sabres are a poorly run organization. That's not debatable. And because of that our young players get dragged down from that morass of incompetency. 

[mjd1001]

11 hours ago, JohnC said:

Let's look at Cozens in isolation and also representative of how this organization has handled young players. Foremost, is that many of them have been rushed to the NHL. And secondly, because there has been a dearth of experience on this roster they are playing in higher roles than they are ready to assume. With Cozens, you can see him playing with a lot of pressure that he is putting on himself. A point is that there is in general a mishandling of young players that stunts their development. 

Our ill-equipped GM has publicly stated that his approach was not to block the young players with veteran players. Did that approach enhance their development or did it stunt it?  The expectation is that it would accelerate their development. Did it? There is no question that Levi was rushed. Would it have been better for them in general to have gotten more playing time with increased roles in the AHL? That is the normal approach for most franchises. There certainly are teams that play their highly draft players right away in the big league. But they don't do it to the extent that our flailing franchise does it. And for the most part they have more players who provide a support system for these fledging players. 

I'm comfortable in saying that if Cozens is traded to a competently run organization, he would be a better player for his new team compared to where he is now. The Sabres are a poorly run organization. That's not debatable. And because of that our young players get dragged down from that morass of incompetency. 

That still doesn't change the fact that he is one of the worst players on this team, especially when it comes to what he is getting paid and the role he has on the team. If you are going to move anyone off this team now, Cozens is the one ahead of the other 'young' players, especially forwards. Kulich (in a small sample size), Peterka, Dahlin...I would even say when you look at the entire body of work Power and Byram, are doing better than Cozens.

My post was not to debate whether the way the organization is run is good or not. It isn't, there isn't an argument there. My point is of the bunch, Cozen is the most over-rated of the young guys, the one that has had the most chance to change his game (and he hasn't) and the one that if moved, stands to get a return back....with the fact he his subtracted from the team....that is most likely to move this team forward.

As bad as this organization is, I have seen Dahlin get better over the last few years. Krebs is still not a very good player, but his play without the puck is light years better this season than it was in the past. Thompson has gotten better.  Peterka has turned into an 'overall' good player with some growing pains.  Kulich has a small sample size, but his play is greatly better now than it was his first 10-15 games. Benson has known no pro organization other than the Sabres and he has some very good games. Cozens? His play away from the puck has not grown, not evolved, not gotten one bit better from game one until game 330. He still makes the exact same mistakes game after game, month after month, season after season.

Edited Monday at 03:53 PM by mjd1001

[Porous Five Hole]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

That still doesn't change the fact that he is one of the worst players on this team, especially when it comes to what he is getting paid and the role he has on the team. If you are going to move anyone off this team now, Cozens is the one ahead of the other 'young' players, especially forwards. Kulich (in a small sample size), Peterka, Dahlin...I would even say when you look at the entire body of work Power and Byram, are doing better than Cozens.

My post was not to debate whether the way the organization is run is good or not. It isn't, there isn't an argument there. My point is of the bunch, Cozen is the most over-rated of the young guys, the one that has had the most chance to change his game (and he hasn't) and the one that if moved, stands to get a return back....with the fact he his subtracted from the team....that is most likely to move this team forward.

As bad as this organization is, I have seen Dahlin get better over the last few years. Krebs is still not a very good player, but his play without the puck is light years better this season than it was in the past. Thompson has gotten better.  Peterka has turned into an 'overall' good player with some growing pains.  Kulich has a small sample size, but his play is greatly better now than it was his first 10-15 games. Benson has known no pro organization other than the Sabres and he has some very good games. Cozens? His play away from the puck has not grown, not evolved, not gotten one bit better from game one until game 330. He still makes the exact same mistakes game after game, month after month, season after season.

[mjd1001]

8 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I was replying to someone who replied to me...who I replied to...etc etc.

Beating a dead horse is mostly what this message board is about, the team doesn't give us much new to talk about.

[LGR4GM]

19 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

4 powerplay goals by Cozens over the last 133 games despite being on pretty much every single powerplay. 1 goal every 33-34 games, whats not to like?

Over his career he has 746 minutes of PP ice time and 12 power play goals since he broke into the league.  106 other forwards in the leage have had over 700 minutes of power play ice time since Cozens came into the league. Where does Cozens rank in Powerplay goals amont those 106 players? He's 105th out of 106 (only Dylan Strome has less, and he only has 1 less, but makes up for it with 15 more pp assists than Cozens).

By most measures, he is the least productive forward in the league on the PowerPlay that still continues to get regular minutes.

Not exactly a history of tearing it up.

The Sabres organization is incapable of recognizing an error and changing. Cozens is a favored son, he can do no wrong. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

On 2/9/2025 at 11:06 AM, inkman said:

How often do the Sabres take advantage of another teams perceived fatigue?  Seems like they lose just as much as they win or more in those situations. 

"lose just as much as they win" implies 0.500 - which would be an improvement on their overall mark! 😉 

20 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Adams likes him, paid him, and he wants to right about him.  So Cozens gets an "A" and he gets every opportunity.   

He perceived ceiling and his size make him a player that gets preferential treatment.   I don't think Adams will trade him until he feels 100% certain he was wrong about him. 

I was a big fan of Cozens too, and I want Adams to be right.   Where I differ is I would be playing him as a 3rd line winger in hopes that the rest of his game comes along.  

What really concerns me is if Ruff concedes to Adams as far as ice time and the utilization of Cozens (or any palyer).  

The "meddling owner" trope has played out ad nauseum around here - but I would submit for your consideration, that if the GM is dictating to the coach how and when a player is being used, that is actually worse than the owner wanting to be involved in player acquisitions, etc. GMHD has no leverage over Ruff, there is no way TP would fire a coach in their first year - and if that 13 game losing streak did not do it, not much will. 

Until empirical evidence is submitted, I will not subscribe to "Adams is telling Ruff to give Cozens powerplay time". I won't do it. No. 

[Stoner]

GMHD is a keeper. It is our board's top prospect and one day could join the pantheon of Deluca .500, OSP and WTF Wave.

17 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

"lose just as much as they win" implies 0.500 - which would be an improvement on their overall mark! 😉 

The "meddling owner" trope has played out ad nauseum around here - but I would submit for your consideration, that if the GM is dictating to the coach how and when a player is being used, that is actually worse than the owner wanting to be involved in player acquisitions, etc. GMHD has no leverage over Ruff, there is no way TP would fire a coach in their first year - and if that 13 game losing streak did not do it, not much will. 

Until empirical evidence is submitted, I will not subscribe to "Adams is telling Ruff to give Cozens powerplay time". I won't do it. No. 

But you said it all. TP should not be firing the coach. You apparently think he can and it would be OK.

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

That still doesn't change the fact that he is one of the worst players on this team, especially when it comes to what he is getting paid and the role he has on the team. If you are going to move anyone off this team now, Cozens is the one ahead of the other 'young' players, especially forwards. Kulich (in a small sample size), Peterka, Dahlin...I would even say when you look at the entire body of work Power and Byram, are doing better than Cozens.

My post was not to debate whether the way the organization is run is good or not. It isn't, there isn't an argument there. My point is of the bunch, Cozen is the most over-rated of the young guys, the one that has had the most chance to change his game (and he hasn't) and the one that if moved, stands to get a return back....with the fact he his subtracted from the team....that is most likely to move this team forward.

As bad as this organization is, I have seen Dahlin get better over the last few years. Krebs is still not a very good player, but his play without the puck is light years better this season than it was in the past. Thompson has gotten better.  Peterka has turned into an 'overall' good player with some growing pains.  Kulich has a small sample size, but his play is greatly better now than it was his first 10-15 games. Benson has known no pro organization other than the Sabres and he has some very good games. Cozens? His play away from the puck has not grown, not evolved, not gotten one bit better from game one until game 330. He still makes the exact same mistakes game after game, month after month, season after season.

I'll finish responding on the Cozens discussion. There is no question that his stats are insufficient. I'm not saying otherwise. But let's not forget that in the 2022-23 season he has 31 goals, 37 assists for 68 pts. He finished with a -3. In the 2023-24 season he scored 18 goals, 29 assists for 47 points with a -4. In the international tournaments playing with and against top tier players he played very well, especially as a winger. (I believe that wing is his more suitable position.)

My general point regarding him and other young players is that he is playing with a team and organization that is not very smartly run. And I believe that he and others have become inhibited in their play and development because of it. I'm confident that if he was with a better managed franchise his play would improve. 

My main disagreement with your usage of stats in describing his play is that it doesn't factor in the dysfunctional organization that he is playing in and stuck with. You don't have to respond because the both of us are going in circles on this topic. Although I understand what you are saying, I disagree with your general point about him as a player. 

 

Edited Monday at 08:26 PM by JohnC

[mjd1001]

38 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'll finish responding on the Cozens discussion. There is no question that his stats are insufficient. I'm not saying otherwise. But let's not forget that in the 2022-23 season he has 31 goals, 37 assists for 68 pts. He finished with a -3. In the 2023-24 season he scored 18 goals, 29 assists for 47 points with a -4. In the international tournaments playing with and against top tier players he played very well, especially as a winger. (I believe that wing is his more suitable position.)

My general point regarding him and other young players is that he is playing with a team and organization that is not very smartly run. And I believe that he and others have become inhibited in their play and development because of it. I'm confident that if he was with a better managed franchise his play would improve. 

My main disagreement with your usage of stats in describing his play is that it doesn't factor in the dysfunctional organization that he is playing in and stuck with. You don't have to respond because the both of us are going in circles on this topic. Although I understand what you are saying, I disagree with your general point about him as a player. 

 

Yeah, I know what you mean.

I'll keep this short.  I posted a longer version of this in another thread, but the short version:

If they move and play Cozens at wing, I'll be happy. In fact, I'll be somewhat upset if they move him to wing and then trade him shortly after.

If Lindy held a press conference today and said Cozens is moving to wing for the rest of the season, I might have the first post on this board saying they better not trade him now.

I want to like him. I see some of what he is good at.  I guess my arguing with you and others about him is with me simply accepting (right or wrong) they they are going to play him only at center, so I view him not as a hockey player, but as a center only.

Last game at center there was a lot of line juggling, but Cozens did play some wing on a line with Krebs and Quinn. I'm not sure what percentage of the time he was on wing vs center with Krebs (they kinda switched off) but he did play SOME wing and their Corsi, Fenwich, and expected goals for/against were WAY in positive territory.

I think he can still succeed here, but not with this organization trying to hammer the 'square peg' that he is through the 'round hole' that the center position is.

Edited Monday at 09:05 PM by mjd1001

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

Yeah, I know what you mean.

I'll keep this short.  I posted a longer version of this in another thread, but the short version:

If they move and play Cozens at wing, I'll be happy. In fact, I'll be somewhat upset if they move him to wing and then trade him shortly after.

I want to like him. I see some of what he is good at.  I guess my arguing with you and others about him is with me simply accepting (right or wrong) they they are going to play him only at center, so I view him not as a hockey player, but as a center only.

I think he can still succeed here, but not with this organization trying to hammer the 'square peg' that he is through the 'round hole' that the center position is.

The Sabres have become a laughable organization where assets are frequently diminished. There's another reason why I don't want Cozens or anyone else dealt by this befuddled GM. Due to his failure as a GM he might feel the pressure to do something for the sake of giving the impression that he is acting. It's well known around the league that he is in a weak position and might be inclined to make a bad deal. I would hope that after the season there will be a new GM who is better equipped to make roster decisions.  I want to make it clear that I'm not against making deals. But I sure don't want our Howdy Doody GM to be the one doing it. He's already demonstrated what he is capable of. And that is my fear. 

s

[ska-T Palmtown]

2 hours ago, Stoner said:

GMHD is a keeper. It is our board's top prospect and one day could join the pantheon of Deluca .500, OSP and WTF Wave.

But you said it all. TP should not be firing the coach. You apparently think he can and it would be OK.

Damn you! Not exclusively what I meant, but what I typed, for sure. To be clear - despite the lack of evidence, I *do* buy into the TP is too involved conspiracy theory. With GMHD, I can't say I would even blame him, lol. I meant to say that I don't think Lord Pegs would allow GMHD to fire Ruff so soon.

I am still curious about GMHD telling Ruff when and where to play Cozens ... I think it is all Ruff - he thinks he sees something and wants to be the master artisan that unlocked the potential. It is a fools errand, a tale as old as time itself.

[Thorner]

19 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

Damn you! Not exclusively what I meant, but what I typed, for sure. To be clear - despite the lack of evidence, I *do* buy into the TP is too involved conspiracy theory. With GMHD, I can't say I would even blame him, lol. I meant to say that I don't think Lord Pegs would allow GMHD to fire Ruff so soon.

I am still curious about GMHD telling Ruff when and where to play Cozens ... I think it is all Ruff - he thinks he sees something and wants to be the master artisan that unlocked the potential. It is a fools errand, a tale as old as time itself.

We can only pray Adams gets a clean slate and a fair shot with a new owner, new coach, and new players 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

We can only pray Adams gets a clean slate and a fair shot with a new owner, new coach, and new players 

There isn’t a GM in hockey that could win with 5 yrs of this roster.

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

There isn’t a GM in hockey that could win with 5 yrs of this roster.

I agree. He deserves a fair shake with a new one 

[ska-T Palmtown]

59 minutes ago, Thorner said:

We can only pray Adams gets a clean slate and a fair shot with a new owner, new coach, and new players 

I am well aware of your position on these topics, and rest assured that nothing I typed was meant to imply I would absolve GMHD of any applicable blame for the crap show we are currently forced to witness.

Hiring a yes-man as a GM is a double-edged sword, ain't it? That individual needs to have a certain lack of drive so they don't question you ... but you have now doomed yourself to having to be involved or run the risk of a huge catastrophe if you needed to trust them with anything.

If GMHD is letting TP wipe his butthole (toilet joke, love it!), then there cannot be any merit to the belief that GMHD is telling Ruff whom to play when.

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

There isn’t a GM in hockey that could win with 5 yrs of this roster.

There likely isn't a GM in hockey that would assemble this roster, either ... at least not one with a job as a GM.

[Thorner]

Terry meddling on day to day transactions isn’t a thing lol. It’s a narrative from 5 years ago that won’t die. I guess it’s ok to support something with zero evidence but I sort of draw the line when it’s in *direct opposition* to overwhelming evidence that IS staring is in the face re: what the problem is. TERRY DOESN’T CARE. The idea he cares SO much he’s interfering yet *simultaneously* also wants to win on a ridiculous, self-imposed budget handicap, for some reason, is absurd. What, he’s selecting “expert level” on the difficulty setting for fun? It’s not logically defensible or understandable. It doesn’t jive; it’s not an opinion: it’s simply wrong. There has to be some level of base truth telling here to keep the discussion relevant 

Maybe Terry is an alien sent to destroy the team. I don’t have evidence but maybe 

Edited Monday at 11:09 PM by Thorner