GDT: Sabres @ Predators Feb 8, 2025 - 8:00PM, MSG 📺, WGR550 📻 🎙

[ska-T Palmtown]

6 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Terry meddling on day to day transactions isn’t a thing lol. It’s a narrative from 5 years ago that won’t die. I guess it’s ok to support something with zero evidence but I sort of draw the line when it’s in *direct opposition* to overwhelming evidence that IS staring is in the face re: what the problem is. TERRY DOESN’T CARE. The idea he cares SO much he’s interfering yet *simultaneously* also wants to win on a ridiculous, self-imposed budget handicap, for some reason, is absurd. What’s he’s selecting “expert level” on the difficulty setting for fun? It’s not logically defensible or understandable. It doesn’t jive; it’s not an opinion: it’s simply wrong. There has to be some level of base truth telling here to keep the discussion relevant 

Maybe Terry is an alien sent to destroy the team. I don’t have evidence but maybe 

Conspiracy theories are only meant to give a sense of space to a situation where people without good knowledge of a situation crave it. In this case, I have no idea how a hockey team should be run (both from watching the Sabres and from a lack of doing it myself). That can lead to an overwhelming sense of anxiety around that void, so I chose to believe that the owner can't get out of his own way. In the general sense, that happens a lot in the real world. People are often their own worst enemies for meaningful change and progress. Do I know he is doing it? Nah ... no way I really could.

My personal sense of levity, snark, and tongue-in-cheek does not come across well on Le Interwebs - so when I say I "buy into the theory" it is more of a "yeah, sure ... why the eff not?" than most people may perceive. I don't wholly subscribe, either ... I posted a few weeks ago that based on the NHL's reported revenue for the Sabres, unless the team's non-contract overhead is $60M, TP is making money on this team. I don't think the theory of TP pinching pennies ($1M is pennies to his overall net worth) has much merit. 

Conspiracy theories are weird, though - because they often are used to fill gaps. My wife, who is very smart, for a long time thought there was "something to" some of the "jet fuel can't melt steel" garbage floating around about the twin towers. Until I, a licensed structural engineer, sat her (a chief marketing officer) down and explained how steel has a strength curve associated with elevated temperatures and it does not have to come anywhere near close to "melting" for it to fail under its original design loads, blah blah blah.

In my heart of hearts, I know most of the theories about the dysfunction of the team are really just bunk and we are where we are because TP has not managed to hire the right person EVEN ONCE to help run this organization. But perhaps my dark corner seems safer? lol

[Thorner]

14 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

Conspiracy theories are only meant to give a sense of space to a situation where people without good knowledge of a situation crave it. In this case, I have no idea how a hockey team should be run (both from watching the Sabres and from a lack of doing it myself). That can lead to an overwhelming sense of anxiety around that void, so I chose to believe that the owner can't get out of his own way. In the general sense, that happens a lot in the real world. People are often their own worst enemies for meaningful change and progress. Do I know he is doing it? Nah ... no way I really could.

My personal sense of levity, snark, and tongue-in-cheek does not come across well on Le Interwebs - so when I say I "buy into the theory" it is more of a "yeah, sure ... why the eff not?" than most people may perceive. I don't wholly subscribe, either ... I posted a few weeks ago that based on the NHL's reported revenue for the Sabres, unless the team's non-contract overhead is $60M, TP is making money on this team. I don't think the theory of TP pinching pennies ($1M is pennies to his overall net worth) has much merit. 

Conspiracy theories are weird, though - because they often are used to fill gaps. My wife, who is very smart, for a long time thought there was "something to" some of the "jet fuel can't melt steel" garbage floating around about the twin towers. Until I, a licensed structural engineer, sat her (a chief marketing officer) down and explained how steel has a strength curve associated with elevated temperatures and it does not have to come anywhere near close to "melting" for it to fail under its original design loads, blah blah blah.

In my heart of hearts, I know most of the theories about the dysfunction of the team are really just bunk and we are where we are because TP has not managed to hire the right person EVEN ONCE to help run this organization. But perhaps my dark corner seems safer? lol

Good post and I understand what you are saying, it’s just that to me the boogeyman is quite clearly staring us right in the face here. This is the situation where we DO have knowledge and it’s in fact what makes it so frustrating: we know what the issues are. 

[Stoner]

Who decided to tank? Terry or Darcy? If Terry, was it his decision to make about how to best fulfill his stated mission of winning a Cup?

My goodness, this is disheartening, but a sign of the times where people have to defend the fact that the earth is round.

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

Good post and I understand what you are saying, it’s just that to me the boogeyman is quite clearly staring us right in the face here. This is the situation where we DO have knowledge and it’s in fact what makes it so frustrating: we know what the issues are. 

Terry can be cheap AND meddle. It also might be GMHD keeping his powder dry.

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

Conspiracy theories are only meant to give a sense of space to a situation where people without good knowledge of a situation crave it. In this case, I have no idea how a hockey team should be run (both from watching the Sabres and from a lack of doing it myself). That can lead to an overwhelming sense of anxiety around that void, so I chose to believe that the owner can't get out of his own way. In the general sense, that happens a lot in the real world. People are often their own worst enemies for meaningful change and progress. Do I know he is doing it? Nah ... no way I really could.

My personal sense of levity, snark, and tongue-in-cheek does not come across well on Le Interwebs - so when I say I "buy into the theory" it is more of a "yeah, sure ... why the eff not?" than most people may perceive. I don't wholly subscribe, either ... I posted a few weeks ago that based on the NHL's reported revenue for the Sabres, unless the team's non-contract overhead is $60M, TP is making money on this team. I don't think the theory of TP pinching pennies ($1M is pennies to his overall net worth) has much merit. 

Conspiracy theories are weird, though - because they often are used to fill gaps. My wife, who is very smart, for a long time thought there was "something to" some of the "jet fuel can't melt steel" garbage floating around about the twin towers. Until I, a licensed structural engineer, sat her (a chief marketing officer) down and explained how steel has a strength curve associated with elevated temperatures and it does not have to come anywhere near close to "melting" for it to fail under its original design loads, blah blah blah.

In my heart of hearts, I know most of the theories about the dysfunction of the team are really just bunk and we are where we are because TP has not managed to hire the right person EVEN ONCE to help run this organization. But perhaps my dark corner seems safer? lol

The logic can be circular. Why did the hires not turn out to be the right person? Spoiler alert: GMJB might still be the GM if he didn't quit over OTP meddling.

[Thorner]

12 minutes ago, Stoner said:

Who decided to tank? Terry or Darcy? If Terry, was it his decision to make about how to best fulfill his stated mission of winning a Cup?

My goodness, this is disheartening, but a sign of the times where people have to defend the fact that the earth is round.

Terry can be cheap AND meddle. It also might be GMHD keeping his powder dry.

I’m sure Dad will be back once he finds the right cigarettes 

Edited Tuesday at 01:22 AM by Thorner

[Thorner]

10 minutes ago, Stoner said:

The logic can be circular. Why did the hires not turn out to be the right person? Spoiler alert: GMJB might still be the GM if he didn't quit over OTP meddling.

He didn’t quit cause of meddling he quit cause he didn’t agree with the lack of spending 

The opposition was to the firings AKA the cut staff AKA the saved $

[Stoner]

2 minutes ago, Thorner said:

I’m sure Dad will be back once he finds the right cigarettes 

As long as you admit "Terry is cheap and doesn't care" is itself a conspiracy theory, we are good.

[Thorner]

We’ve tarred and feathered Occam’s razor’s good name in the pursuit of the avoidance of boredom 

congrats team 

Edited Tuesday at 01:29 AM by Thorner

[Stoner]

Just now, Thorner said:

We’ve tarred and feathers Occam’s razor’s good name in the pursuit of the avoidance of boredom 

congrats team 

So your theory must be the most plausible one?

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, Stoner said:

As long as you admit "Terry is cheap and doesn't care" is itself a conspiracy theory, we are good.

(a nice try) but nonetheless FALSE because the descriptor I used (“cheap”) need not apply. It need not matter the reasons why we do not spend: the act of not spending in itself (which is demonstrable) is (also demonstrably) linked inextricably with failure to win

2 minutes ago, Stoner said:

So your theory must be the most plausible one?

Merely the most demonstrable 

Edited Tuesday at 01:30 AM by Thorner
Demonstrable

[Stoner]

12 minutes ago, Thorner said:

(a nice try) but nonetheless FALSE because the descriptor I used (“cheap”) need not apply. It need not matter the reasons why we do not spend: the act of not spending in itself (which is demonstrable) is (also demonstrably) linked inextricably with failure to win

Merely the most demonstrable 

The reason is everything. Good teams and committed owners down through the years have strategically not spent to the cap while waiting for the right time to strike.

If I can have my own set of facts:

Terry meddles.

He hires inexperienced people who both enable his meddling and kneecap themselves in the process.

Terry cares, is not absentee and wants to win.

He enacted E to the 3 during Covid, but it's not related to the team continuing to spend below the cap.

Most likely in my mind the reason is what GMHD said it is.

In the end, hats off to Terry for near-criminally mismanaging the team and forcing us to argue amongst ourselves.

 

 

[Weave]

46 minutes ago, Stoner said:

 

Terry can be cheap AND meddle. It also might be GMHD keeping his powder dry.

It took me until this post to realize GMHD refers to Howdy Doody.

[Thorner]

4 minutes ago, Stoner said:

The reason is everything.

Most likely in my mind the reason is what GMHD said it is.

In the end, hats off to Terry for near-criminally mismanaging the team and forcing us to argue amongst ourselves.

The reason is nothing. The will is everything. 

- - - 

I’m not arguing against you. I’m fighting with you. Mistaken if you think my aim is to win an argument: it’s to demonstrate that Adams stinks.

To the bold, if those are your facts, I say: So be it. Let the records show, we aren’t spending due to a choice made by the GM

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

Conspiracy theories are only meant to give a sense of space to a situation where people without good knowledge of a situation crave it. In this case, I have no idea how a hockey team should be run (both from watching the Sabres and from a lack of doing it myself). That can lead to an overwhelming sense of anxiety around that void, so I chose to believe that the owner can't get out of his own way. In the general sense, that happens a lot in the real world. People are often their own worst enemies for meaningful change and progress. Do I know he is doing it? Nah ... no way I really could.

My personal sense of levity, snark, and tongue-in-cheek does not come across well on Le Interwebs - so when I say I "buy into the theory" it is more of a "yeah, sure ... why the eff not?" than most people may perceive. I don't wholly subscribe, either ... I posted a few weeks ago that based on the NHL's reported revenue for the Sabres, unless the team's non-contract overhead is $60M, TP is making money on this team. I don't think the theory of TP pinching pennies ($1M is pennies to his overall net worth) has much merit. 

Conspiracy theories are weird, though - because they often are used to fill gaps. My wife, who is very smart, for a long time thought there was "something to" some of the "jet fuel can't melt steel" garbage floating around about the twin towers. Until I, a licensed structural engineer, sat her (a chief marketing officer) down and explained how steel has a strength curve associated with elevated temperatures and it does not have to come anywhere near close to "melting" for it to fail under its original design loads, blah blah blah.

In my heart of hearts, I know most of the theories about the dysfunction of the team are really just bunk and we are where we are because TP has not managed to hire the right person EVEN ONCE to help run this organization. But perhaps my dark corner seems safer? lol

[sabremike]

The idea that an NHL GM would constantly spend well below the cap ceiling and refuse to weaponize cap space for assets/trades of his own volition and not at the behest of ownership IS the insane conspiracy theory. 

We are a poverty franchise and will continue to be for the foreseeable future (ie: all the cost overruns on the Bills stadium are paid off).

[ska-T Palmtown]

@Thorner and @Stoner what a lively discussion! I wish the product on the ice gave a reason to be that passionate in a positive way. 😞 

i'd STILL like to hear someone's opinion on the GM, HD in this case, tell a coach when and where to play a player - ie Cozens on the powerplay. 

The spending on the team is quite odd. One could reason, and I am not the first one to point this out, that some past free agent signings (Lieno, Hall) have given the owner pause on opening the purse for that purpose again. But, on the other hand ... handing Cozens and Power pretty huge money relative to any sustained performance indicates some sort of willingness to spend. 

Either way, all of this demonstrates that we, the faithful, need good hockey to distract us from all this. 🙂 

 

[ska-T Palmtown]

8 hours ago, sabremike said:

The idea that an NHL GM would constantly spend well below the cap ceiling and refuse to weaponize cap space for assets/trades of his own volition and not at the behest of ownership IS the insane conspiracy theory. 

We are a poverty franchise and will continue to be for the foreseeable future (ie: all the cost overruns on the Bills stadium are paid off).

Yeah, he already did that by selling a chunk of the Bills for nearly a billion dollars. Forbes estimates that in 2023 the Bills had a net operating income (so, after all expenses) of over $100M. The "he saves $8M in Sabres cap space to pay for the new stadium" is also kinda absurd. The numbers are off by orders of magnitude.

[SwampD]

I really want to laugh along, but for the life of me (somewhat literally), I can’t figure out what GMHD means.

[Weave]

13 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I really want to laugh along, but for the life of me (somewhat literally), I can’t figure out what GMHD means.

GM Howdy Doody.  
 

Somewhere in here is an image of Adams and Howdy Doody, and it becomes readily apparent why we’ve never seen both in the same room at the same time.

Edited Tuesday at 02:13 PM by Weave

[SwampD]

10 minutes ago, Weave said:

GM Howdy Doody.  
 

Somewhere in here is an image of Adams and Howdy Doody, and it becomes readily apparent why we’ve never seen both in the same room at the same time.

That is way funnier than anything I was expecting it to be.

I needed a good laugh.

 

[EM88]

13 hours ago, Stoner said:

Who decided to tank? Terry or Darcy? If Terry, was it his decision to make about how to best fulfill his stated mission of winning a Cup?

My goodness, this is disheartening, but a sign of the times where people have to defend the fact that the earth is round.

Terry can be cheap AND meddle. It also might be GMHD keeping his powder dry.

Most sides of this argument make good points. I tend to agree with the above more than not.

Terry Pegula can both care too much and not enough. How is that?  He can put the franchise on auto-run much of the time, but on the few occasions he does show up, he wants to 'catch up' and gets too involved at those times.

Kevyn Adams might be the day to day issue with the team, but that can also fall at the feet of Terry Pegula.  It is possible, in my opinion likely, that Pegula can have made a bad hire or hires to run his hockey department and is letting them make bad decisions, all the while the reason he did make that bad hire is that he did not want to pay top dollar for a higher priced hockey department while he was still paying many members or previous staff.

As far as conspiracy theories go, often times the best way to defend our point of view, or conspiracy theory, is to call an opposing point of view to your own a conspiracy theory.   In my short time posting on this forum, I do find that behavior happens a lot on this forum when people disagree.

Edited Tuesday at 02:37 PM by EM88

[mjd1001]

At this point I don't care who is calling the shots so much as will they make the required changes.

-If Adams doesn't make any moves at all, then he can be gone for all I care.

-If Adams makes a somewhat meaning trade before the deadline, and is instrumental in getting Cozens moved to wing or traded, he can stay, and is willing to spend some more money to make the team better, he can stay.

-If Lindy finds a way to get Quinn going and is fine with moving Cozens to wing, fine, he can stay.  

-If Pegula opens up the wallet and gets this team to spend close to the cap next year, fine.

I am OK generally with 'inactivity' while young guys are developing. But we are past that time now.  Make the moves.  I will not indict a coach, owner, or a GM for making moves unless they are all utter disasters. I don't think that is the case with this group. Where my patience runs thin, or in this case is almost running out is when you gave things a lot of time and you aren't doing well, so make some moves. That means trades, moving people to other positions, signings.

Since December, we have been at the point where changes have to be made.  The failure of this owner, this coach, this GM will only be if they choose to continue to sit on the hands.

I know I am repeating myself, but Pegula, open up the Wallet.  Adams, make some moves. Ruff, If Cozens is still here keep him at Wing. There is a lot of low hanging fruit out there to make this team better, each of them has had an opportunity to do some of it, why hasn't it happened yet?

[Thorner]

4 hours ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

@Thorner and @Stoner what a lively discussion! I wish the product on the ice gave a reason to be that passionate in a positive way. 😞 

i'd STILL like to hear someone's opinion on the GM, HD in this case, tell a coach when and where to play a player - ie Cozens on the powerplay. 

The spending on the team is quite odd. One could reason, and I am not the first one to point this out, that some past free agent signings (Lieno, Hall) have given the owner pause on opening the purse for that purpose again. But, on the other hand ... handing Cozens and Power pretty huge money relative to any sustained performance indicates some sort of willingness to spend. 

Either way, all of this demonstrates that we, the faithful, need good hockey to distract us from all this. 🙂 

 

Generally, at least anecdotally from my recollection, it’s usually the case that the GM fields the roster, the coach configures the lines. But the GM also hires the coach so presumably a competent organization will do due diligence to ensure there’s philosophical alignment. 

Part of my thinks the GM specifically stays out of line configuration because it allows for a layer of separation so blame can be levied 

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, EM88 said:

Most sides of this argument make good points. I tend to agree with the above more than not.

Terry Pegula can both care too much and not enough. How is that?  He can put the franchise on auto-run much of the time, but on the few occasions he does show up, he wants to 'catch up' and gets too involved at those times.

Kevyn Adams might be the day to day issue with the team, but that can also fall at the feet of Terry Pegula.  It is possible, in my opinion likely, that Pegula can have made a bad hire or hires to run his hockey department and is letting them make bad decisions, all the while the reason he did make that bad hire is that he did not want to pay top dollar for a higher priced hockey department while he was still paying many members or previous staff.

As far as conspiracy theories go, often times the best way to defend our point of view, or conspiracy theory, is to call an opposing point of view to your own a conspiracy theory.   In my short time posting on this forum, I do find that behavior happens a lot on this forum when people disagree.

Well I mean, the bold is exactly what’s happening