From Lucic to Noesen - The Sabre lack of backbone exposed again

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Is this an echo of what Zucker said?

Count me out.

For you?... I understand.

For Zucker?... I would never want a player to give up on a season with 30 games to go.

[That Aud Smell]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

For you?... I understand.

For Zucker?... I would never want a player to give up on a season with 30 games to go.

I'm not suggesting he give up on the season.

[inkman]

16 minutes ago, Weave said:

Is that Josh’s better half? 

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, That Aud Smell said:

This is hugely important factor in how I feel about the incident with Thompson.

Sabres hung on to win. But throughout the game they just got smacked around, physically dominated. No response.

And again: But, yea, 2 points. That's the response.

To that, I say: No it isn't.

If the Devils miss the playoffs by one point then the two points matters.  I don't see it happening unless they collapse.  

[JP51]

31 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Who were the guys on the bench that wanted retribution?  

I am sure it was Gilbert and Benson... after that... we go no body that cares.

[Thorner]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Most folks conveniently overlook the hits the Sabres were dishing all game. But those hits were strategic and part of the flow of play. Not the bench clearing brawl many wanted. 

We also ignore that Lindy considered retaliation but that went out the window when the Sabres not only failed to score in a 5-minute power play, but gave to shorty to cut the lead to one.

But like most things on Sabrespace, facts be damned when there's a good narrative to pounded into the ground.

It’s a fair point. 
 

the times, they are (ever) a-changin’ 

. it IS 2025

Edited 4 hours ago by Thorner

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Did they?

They'd just stepped on the ice on for a line change. The puck was gone across the ice toward the other blue line.

Samuelsson said flat out he didn't see it. Zucker's head flips back and forth like "what just happened there?" Power made a half-hearted overture toward Seigenthaler like "was that you that did that bad thing?"

No one was even looking at Noesen.

How anyone could call the bold into question is rather absurd, knowing what we know of Samuelsson’s on ice vision in general 

2 hours ago, pi2000 said:

Yep, and honestly the hit didn't look that bad to me even on replay.   Tage put himself in a bad spot, he exposed himself leading with his head... not excusing the hit, but it there was no elbow thrown and he didn't leave his feet.   Still dirty but have seen much much worse.

Perhaps it’s reflected in the fact Tage is apparently ok 

[French Collection]

29 minutes ago, Weave said:

That was Mule and Power, at the time of the hit.

[Thorner]

26 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

100% Dahlin 

Dahlin 

 

[msw2112]

I saw the game and have read the posts above and have several thoughts.  For those who don't like long posts, the key points are in bold:

1.  I buy into the notion that the other players on the ice may not have seen the hit.  Based on what I saw, they looked confused after the whistle.  It didn't look like they know what happened.

2.  I'm not familiar with the Devils player who made the hit and whether he's a dirty player.  I don't know what his intent was on the hit - intentionally dirty, clean aggressive hit, or accidental.

3.  Regardless of #1 and #2, I still think the Sabres should have responded.  If not on that shift (giving them the benefit of doubt that the guys on the ice didn't see it), then on an upcoming shift.  Even if you don't go after the same guy, fight SOMEBODY.  Not only send a message to the Devils, but also to the Sabres own team and own fans.

4.  Sure, retaliation COULD HAVE cost the team the game.  It doesn't matter.  This team is very far out of the race.  PLUS, the benefits of team chemistry and firing up the team/crowd likely outweighs the downsides of taking a penalty.  If they retaliated, maybe the Sabres and Devils player both go off, with the Sabres getting an extra 2 minutes for instigating.  Well worth it.

5.  I did not think the hit on Kulich was dirty or intentional.  The other player was Lazar and he wasn't even looking at Kulich.  It was just two guys playing aggressive but clean hockey making contact near the board and Kulich fell awkwardly.  I don't think that one warranted any kind of response.

6.  I did not see or hear the press conference, but I understand why Ruff might have been sending mixed messages.  Either he consciously told them not to retaliate and he's defending his decision, or he wanted the guys to retaliate and is pissed about it, but doesn't want to air that dirty laundry in the media.  He may want to address it internally.

7.  The season has been a failure so far, but have to give some kudos for 3 straight wins, including against decent competition.  Better than running for the bus.

Edited 4 hours ago by msw2112

[JP51]

2 minutes ago, French Collection said:

That was Mule and Power, at the time of the hit.

Exactly

[Weave]

34 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The Lucic hit om Miller occurred in 2011. That was 14 freaking years ago! Extrapolating our descent from that hit is not only odd, but weirdly nonsensical. The Sabres have been a mediocre and irrelevant franchise for nearly a generation, not because of a particular hit, but because of an incompetent owner who has hired a less than mediocre staff to run the hockey operations. 

The Sabres won a game against a superior opponent yesterday. I'm happy about the victory while many are dissatisfied with it. Now we have arrived at a point where after a victory there has been a perplexing freak out. This makes no sense to me. The frustration over this franchise has spilled over to affect many people's logical thinking.  

It is weird to me that you didn’t immediately pick up on the significance of 14 yrs the moment you typed it, given that our playoff drought will be 14 yrs at the end of this season.

 

That was a franchise defining moment.

5 minutes ago, French Collection said:

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Weave

[Weave]

19 minutes ago, inkman said:

Is that Josh’s better half? 

I have no idea.  I just grabbed it from the gif pile.

[JP51]

2 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Dahlin 

 

More importantly, look at what a real nhl team does when Dahlin stick their player.  And that was nothing like what they did to Thompson... people can say what they want.. the relentless pursuit of the individual all game long from a team perspective is the deterrent... fighting them at the time is just fine and appropriate... but it cant stop there... it needs to be escalated through out the game in a clean but highly aggressive way... wont stop it... cheap shots gonna cheap shot... but it will deter folks when you start getting your stars targeted... 

[Thorner]

39 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

My guess is Gilbert and Dahlin.  

If what you are saying about Lindy is true, and he’s a rambling out-of-touchman…perhaps what we witness is pressure yielding the diamond that is Rasmus Dahlin’s captaincy. The Harrington comments DO sound like disagreement 

imagine if Dahlin seized the wheel by force. The culture we seek could be created through our own ineptitude. It might have moulded a giant 

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, Thorner said:

If what you are saying about Lindy is true, and he’s a rambling out-of-touchman…perhaps what we witness is pressure yielding the diamond that is Rasmus Dahlin’s captaincy. The Harrington comments DO sound like disagreement 

imagine if Dahlin seized the wheel by force. The culture we seek could be created through our own ineptitude. It might have moulded a giant 

To me Ruffs post game interview was a circular ramble.  Others might think he has the wisdom of Abraham Lincoln.  I don't.  

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, Weave said:

It is weird to me that you didn’t immediately pick up on the significance of 14 yrs the moment you typed it, given that our playoff drought will be 14 yrs at the end of this season.

 

 

It's not weird because with respect to that specific incident I don't believe that it is a factor on our franchise's demise. I mostly attribute the franchise's failures and irrelevancy to the period of Pegula's ownership and how he has conducted himself during this sad interlude. If you are searching for a cause/effect look to Terry P. and his foolishness. 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

It's not weird because with respect to that specific incident I don't believe that it is a factor on our franchise's demise. I mostly attribute the franchise's failures and irrelevancy to the period of Pegula's ownership and how he has conducted himself during this sad interlude. If you are searching for a cause/effect look to Terry P. and his foolishness. 

When you have a drought on the precipice of 14 years in length, the closer you get to boiling down our ails to one solitary issue, the further you become from understanding the degree of our ineptitude 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Weave said:

It is weird to me that you didn’t immediately pick up on the significance of 14 yrs the moment you typed it, given that our playoff drought will be 14 yrs at the end of this season.

 

That was a franchise defining moment.

Bingo!  2011/12 was Lindy's last season of his first go around as Sabres' coach and the first season of missing the playoffs of the current playoff drought.   The hit on Miller occurred on 11/11/2011.  After the Ottawa game the Sabres were 10-5-0.  They then went 9-19-5 in the next 33 games and the drought had begun.  

Edited 2 hours ago by GASabresIUFAN

[JP51]

7 minutes ago, Thorner said:

When you have a drought on the precipice of 14 years in length, the closer you get to boiling down our ails to one solitary issue, the further you become from understanding the degree of our ineptitude 

agreed this is just a consistent symptom and illustration of everything wrong with this team... this attitude of weak softness translates in to the corners, in front of the next, back check, taking a hit to make the proper play... and all of the difficult things that go into playing hockey that will show results in the playoffs.. to me its like... well of course they didnt... have you seen them play in the corner and in front of the net...  try to hold on to a lead when the other team is breathing fire? Its obvious they arent willing to do those things that winning teams do.. at least consistently...  

[LGR4GM]

4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Most folks conveniently overlook the hits the Sabres were dishing all game. But those hits were strategic and part of the flow of play. Not the bench clearing brawl many wanted. 

We also ignore that Lindy considered retaliation but that went out the window when the Sabres not only failed to score in a 5-minute power play, but gave to shorty to cut the lead to one.

But like most things on Sabrespace, facts be damned when there's a good narrative to pounded into the ground.

This happened because Lindy neutered his team and alllllll the energy they had was ripped away by him telling them to "do nothing". 

Your facts be damned, you tried to falsely claim yesterday it was already 4-3 and that's why Buffalo couldn't retaliate. Forcing the team to back down almost cost them the game. It was an awful call and that isn't "narrative", it's just a fact. 

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Thorner said:

When you have a drought on the precipice of 14 years in length, the closer you get to boiling down our ails to one solitary issue, the further you become from understanding the degree of our ineptitude 

Our owner has chosen to be intimately/actively involved in the franchise. That's his prerogative as an owner. The problem is that he either lacks the self-awareness about his competency about his hockey judgment or he simply doesn't care. He wants to tinker and play with his toy. The outcome is the long-term lackluster record. It can't be ignored. 

[IKnowPhysics]

Reporter: "People from the outside would see that play and come to the conclusion that your team would not-"

Lindy: "Bull$hit.  Bull$hit.  Let's go.  Next question."

 

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/video/lindy-ruff-postgame-vs-njd-6368168363112

 

/thread

Edited 3 hours ago by IKnowPhysics

[Thorner]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Our owner has chosen to be intimately/actively involved in the franchise. That's his prerogative as an owner. The problem is that he either lacks the self-awareness about his competency about his hockey judgment or he simply doesn't care. He wants to tinker and play with his toy. The outcome is the long-term lackluster record. It can't be ignored. 

I don’t agree. In fact I vehemently disagree with a side of, “are we following the same franchise, here?” 

I don’t see, and haven’t in 14 years seen any evidence that to my eye suggests Terry meddles any more so than than a rough anecdotal average of all owners. Owners do generally meddle; because they own the team and that’s their right 

we have a far greater problem, im somewhat surprised you aren’t keying on instead, because I really don’t think it’s the other thing. Way worse problem. Terry doesn’t care *enough*. The whispers of meddling are borne out from the early days of Terry’s tenure when we were spending to the cap.

Terry is an absentee owner. His mandate to Adams was to cut costs. That has not only manifested in the *demonstrable* lack of spending, lack of commitment to winning, it was the *very principle upon which Adams took the job*

people, this is the Adams tenure. Don’t blame Adams, I do not care. But get your head on straight here: the issue is Terry not caring about the Sabres enough 

i shouldn’t need to explain this by now: teams that don’t spend typically don’t win, teams that are the youngest in the league typically do not win. We are both. Those items are both a reflection of lack of spending. Young players are cheap. This is a puzzle that easily fits together. These are the hallmarks of the Adams tenure.

Pegula is the common denominator- but, as mentioned, he’s found multiple ways to fail over the years. You need to, when it’s 14 years 

Edited 3 hours ago by Thorner

[Thorner]

When I can tell you that only 2 of the last 160 teams that spent as we are right now have made the playoffs, when one can present that kind of data point, there’d need to be some strong evidence presented on the other side of the equation detailing those moves that Pegula is making, these transactions taking place that evidence the franchise being treated as a toy by the owner 

actually asking: what are some moves in the last 5 years that you can prove were made because of Terry operating as the GM? I don’t mean prove in a legal sense, just like literally some examples of draft picks made or trades made where the impetus was Terry’s analysis as an owner-playing-GM, and not transactions influenced by the imposed budget 

“well we can just guess at it” doesn’t work very well when I have concrete proof of the lack of spending, and concrete data on what that leads to 

Edited 3 hours ago by Thorner