From Lucic to Noesen - The Sabre lack of backbone exposed again

[GASabresIUFAN]

The Lucic attack on Miller and the Sabres lack of response to it was the first step down the road to where the Sabres are now.  That is at the bottom of the standings for 14 years with no real plan to improve.

 Yesterday two cheap shots, one on Zucker and then one on TNT, both by Noesen I believe, went unavenged and graphically illustrated that nothing has changed in 14 years. This franchise still lacks a spine and without one they’ll never improve.  

Lindy’s stating at the press conference that winning was the best response is simply BS.  For a team at the bottom of the conference standings with zero hope of the playoffs the win is meaningless.  For a good culture to grow, the team must stick up for each other.  They must become tougher and legitimately harder to play against.  Teams push the Sabres all over the ice because they know no response is coming and the Sabres proved that again yesterday.  
 

The Adams administration has paid lip service for years to getting tougher.  Adams would say that he added Greenway, Gilbert, Stillman, Eric Johnson, Robinson, Clifton, Lyubushkin, Malenstyn, Lafferty and Kubel to help accomplish that goal.  The problem with all these acquisitions is that almost none are more than depth players or roster filer.  Only Greenway arguably plays more than a depth role and he’s oft injured.  
 

Of the guys still on the roster from that list who stepped up after Zucker and TNT hits ? None ! The response didn’t have to be a fight either. It could have been hard checks on Meier and the Hughes brothers.  The response could have been picking up the physical intensity and checking every Devil at every opportunity.  Instead the Sabres rolled over, gave up a shortie, wasted a 5 minute PP and allowed the Devils to pick up their physical intensity.  Only sterling play by UPL preserved the victory. 

I honestly don’t know how to fix this soft losing culture in the Sabres.  However, I do know that Lindy not allowing the few guys who allegedly wished to step up to step up sends the wrong message to the locker room.  

 

Edited 1 hour ago by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

Toughness can come from the players or it can come from the coaches. If the players have it, the head coach is deliberately shutting it down, this is based on his own words. Lindy Ruff was a mistake and keeping all the assistants was a mistake. I would clean how with the coaching staff. 

[Carmel Corn]

IMHO - the lack of a backbone is not a new problem for this franchise.  It’s been an issue for maybe decades now.  In the Pegula era, we’ve never had a team with a “pack” mentality to aggressively protect their fellow teammates.  GM failures JBOT and Howdy Doody Adams have acquired/drafted mostly soft players vs. those who have an edge or play a hard-nosed style naturally (one exception is Zack Benson).

Yesterday’s win was not worth the additional damage to the team’s culture, which is already badly infected with failure and weakness.

Edited 2 hours ago by Carmel Corn

[CallawaySabres]

19 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

IMHO - the lack of a backbone is not a new problem for this franchise.  It’s been an issue for maybe decades now.  In the Pegula era, we’ve never had a team with a “pack” mentality to aggressively protect their fellow teammates.  GM failures JBOT and Howdy Doody Adams have acquired/drafted mostly soft players vs. those who have an edge or play a hard-nosed style naturally (one exception is Zack Benson).

Yesterday’s win was not worth the additional damage to the team’s culture, which is already badly infected with failure and weakness.

This times a thousand. Honestly, this team does not deserve fans.

[GASabresIUFAN]

The funny thing is that it was Lindy who sent the goon squad out against Ottawa after Neil's cheap shot to the head of Chris Drury.  No one remembers who won or lost that game, but everyone remembers the response of the Sabres to the cheap shot.  

Lindy knows that the win was less important than the message that the Sabres are up for any fight.  Sadly even Lindy has been beaten down by the sad culture of this team.   

 

[PromoTheRobot]

Most folks conveniently overlook the hits the Sabres were dishing all game. But those hits were strategic and part of the flow of play. Not the bench clearing brawl many wanted. 

We also ignore that Lindy considered retaliation but that went out the window when the Sabres not only failed to score in a 5-minute power play, but gave to shorty to cut the lead to one.

But like most things on Sabrespace, facts be damned when there's a good narrative to pounded into the ground.

[GoPuckYourself]

Gutless cowards, year in and year out. We'll get a guy like Pettersson and he'll take 1 elbow to the head and be done and these cowards will do nothing. Ship them all out!!!

[thewookie1]

The time to go after them was immediately after the hit; Muel dropped the ball.

Lindy said that if they scored a goal during the 5min major he'd let the dogs loose; instead Peterka put Dahlin in a catch-22 and we gave up a SHG which all but ended our hope for physical revenge. In a sense Lindy wanted them to behave like in a playoff game; make the opposing team pay on the scoreboard and once you've got a 3 goal lead; get revenge. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Lindy cancelled practice today.  
 

 

[Stoner]

Huge disconnect between coach and captain. Not good.

[GASabresIUFAN]

24 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Most folks conveniently overlook the hits the Sabres were dishing all game. But those hits were strategic and part of the flow of play. Not the bench clearing brawl many wanted. 

We also ignore that Lindy considered retaliation but that went out the window when the Sabres not only failed to score in a 5-minute power play, but gave to shorty to cut the lead to one.

But like most things on Sabrespace, facts be damned when there's a good narrative to pounded into the ground.

Did you watch the play of the 2 teams after the hit on TNT.  The Devils took over the game and that included knocking the Sabres all over the ice.  The Sabres crawled into a ball and stopped executing.  It was hard to watch.  The PP featured a shortie and other opportunities for the Devils and no O zone time for the Sabres PP. 
 

As I wrote in the OP the win didn’t matter.  What mattered was the team standing up for themselves and each other.  

[MISabresFan]

41 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The funny thing is that it was Lindy who sent the goon squad out against Ottawa after Neil's cheap shot to the head of Chris Drury.  No one remembers who won or lost that game, but everyone remembers the response of the Sabres to the cheap shot.  

Lindy knows that the win was less important than the message that the Sabres are up for any fight.  Sadly even Lindy has been beaten down by the sad culture of this team.   

 

Or, over the years he doesn't believe this is the correct way to play.  Either way - follow the redwings and hire another coach - president / GM.

[pi2000]

Huge overreaction by the media and fanbase imo.

First, nobody knew what happened until the replay, who was it, was it clean?   The players on the ice didn't know either, how do you expect them to respond?  Even the refs needed replay.

Challenging someone to a fight after a big hit is absolute garbage, it needs to be removed from the game.   You don't like the hit?  Hit them back, it's allowed!   A finesse/smaller player pretending to fight isn't showing a backbone.   I cringe everytime Krebs steps in and gets ragdolled, it's a joke.    The team as a group elevating their physicality is the proper response.   Get his number and put a target on them the rest of the game, tell your physical players to go out of their way to hit him every chance they get.

Lastly, they're at the bottom of the standings yet again in a season where playoffs were the target.   Their "lack of repsonse" in this situation isn't the problem here.

[SwampD]

50 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The funny thing is that it was Lindy who sent the goon squad out against Ottawa after Neil's cheap shot to the head of Chris Drury.  No one remembers who won or lost that game, but everyone remembers the response of the Sabres to the cheap shot.  

Lindy knows that the win was less important than the message that the Sabres are up for any fight.  Sadly even Lindy has been beaten down by the sad culture of this team.   

 

We also remember its affect on the following year. Nothing.

[That Aud Smell]

10 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Huge overreaction by the media and fanbase imo.

First, nobody knew what happened until the replay, who was it, was it clean?   The players on the ice didn't know either, how do you expect them to respond?  Even the refs needed replay.

This is a surprising reaction. The 2 defensemen had as clean and clear a look at the play as one could hope for.

10 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

The team as a group elevating their physicality is the proper response.   Get his number and put a target on them the rest of the game, tell your physical players to go out of their way to hit him every chance they get.

Well, that's just it - innit? The Devils had been running around, taking liberties prior to Tage getting that cheap shot. Quinn took a couple of rough hits - mostly clean, from what I can recall - maybe a bit late on one.

But the Devils were just bullying the Sabres all over the ice.

No response.

[CallawaySabres]

If our coach had not been castrated already, and a different reaction had occurred yesterday, the proper action would be to tear that C off of Dahlin as soon as possible and attach it permanently to Tage. 

It really is quite unbelievable that EVERY SINGLE MOVE this organization makes is the wrong one. It's truly shocking that just when you think the fanbase cannot distance themselves further from these losers, they add another level of pathetic to their resume. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

20 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Huge overreaction by the media and fanbase imo.

First, nobody knew what happened until the replay, who was it, was it clean?   The players on the ice didn't know either, how do you expect them to respond?  Even the refs needed replay.

Challenging someone to a fight after a big hit is absolute garbage, it needs to be removed from the game.   You don't like the hit?  Hit them back, it's allowed!   A finesse/smaller player pretending to fight isn't showing a backbone.   I cringe everytime Krebs steps in and gets ragdolled, it's a joke.    The team as a group elevating their physicality is the proper response.   Get his number and put a target on them the rest of the game, tell your physical players to go out of their way to hit him every chance they get.

Lastly, they're at the bottom of the standings yet again in a season where playoffs were the target.   Their "lack of repsonse" in this situation isn't the problem here.

If you don't call them gutless pussies with no spine, rag doll *****, and any other tired worn out trope you muster, then you SIR, are not a true Sabres fan and are just as soft and weak as the team. You are doomed to spend your days cowering in dark corners hoping no one comes after you. /s

It would be hard to agree with the bolded more than I do.

Update, thanks to the post above mine for reminding, you must also so your fandom by insulting (and be oddly obsessed) with their man-parts ... 

Edited 1 hour ago by ska-T Palmtown

[JoeSchmoe]

It's idiotic to think the prospect of having to fight would deter a dirty hit.

Even if we had prime Bob Probert on the ice what's the difference? You can turtle or back away. 

Edited 1 hour ago by JoeSchmoe

[SwampD]

6 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

This is a surprising reaction. The 2 defensemen had as clean and clear a look at the play as one could hope for.

Well, that's just it - innit? The Devils had been running around, taking liberties prior to Tage getting that cheap shot. Quinn took a couple of rough hits - mostly clean, from what I can recall - maybe a bit late on one.

But the Devils were just bullying the Sabres all over the ice.

No response.

Other than just winning, of course.

IMO, moral victories are for losers.

Wouldn’t it be great if the Sabres actually did make this season interesting and make a run for the last WC spot, and we were tied with NJ but had the HtoH and took it from them. Hey, a fella can dream, can’t he?

[OverPowerYou]

My very first Sabres game was the 2007 Sabres senators brawl. Drury was hit in the head right in front of me. That game made me into a super fan. Now I can barely watch this team unless it’s Ryan Miller night, Rob Ray night, RJ night or if they’re wearing the goat heads.

 

soft 

Edited 55 minutes ago by OverPowerYou

[Pimlach]

Remember, Lindy just told his guys all about the value of Rob Ray to his team.   He said that Ray always put the teammates first, right?  I guess they forgot already, and so did he.  

How quickly that changed. Lindy’s  post game comments were inconsistent, defensive, and short sighted.   

First he said two guys on the bench were ready to go answer but he didn’t want a penalty.  A far cry from the “run him” philosophy he had when Drury got hit in the head versus Ottawa.  Which Sabres team had the better culture?   Which team needed the two points more?  

And so the Sabres didn’t answer because Lindy wanted the 5 min power play.  He said they would need it.   That’s great faith in his teams ability to hold a 2 goal lead.   And with all his excuses, his team gives up a shorty, and then takes two more minor penalties, while almost choking away yet another 3 goal lead going into the 3rd.  

The biggest folly was that his team won and he is up there making excuses and being irritable and defensive.  Did the postgame interviews feel like a victory?   Anyone get a good feel from watching them?    

Lindy yells at a reporter for asking about the lack of response message.  Then he does a very strange 180 flip by saying that Noesem was gone but “you can answer by picking a guy, any guy”.   WTF is he saying?   The media room got quiet upon this big contradiction.   Which is it Lindy?   Gilbert was dressed and ready, but apparently Lindy wasn’t.   

Let’s not forget that the Devils were not done.  Kulich gets blasted next and he limps off the ice.  Still nothing, we really gotta get those 2 points.  

They were lucky to win,  and the win was mostly due to UPL playing brilliantly.  

Victory was achieved but the tone in that locker room was not a positive one, I think many of the players regret the lack of response, and they should.  

Tage has made several on ice immediate responses for players, but we didn’t have the “right players” out there apparently and our coach really valued those two points over his teams reputation and culture.  Ironically, this was something he was brought in to fix.  
 

The Rob Ray messages were quickly forgotten.  

[dudacek]

10 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

This is a surprising reaction. The 2 defensemen had as clean and clear a look at the play as one could hope for.

Well, that's just it - innit? The Devils had been running around, taking liberties prior to Tage getting that cheap shot. Quinn took a couple of rough hits - mostly clean, from what I can recall - maybe a bit late on one.

But the Devils were just bullying the Sabres all over the ice.

No response.

Did they?

They'd just stepped on the ice on for a line change. The puck was gone across the ice toward the other blue line.

Samuelsson said flat out he didn't see it. Zucker's head flips back and forth like "what just happened there?" Power made a half-hearted overture toward Seigenthaler like "was that you that did that bad thing?"

No one was even looking at Noesen.

[GASabresIUFAN]

34 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Huge overreaction by the media and fanbase imo.

First, nobody knew what happened until the replay, who was it, was it clean?   The players on the ice didn't know either, how do you expect them to respond?  Even the refs needed replay.

Challenging someone to a fight after a big hit is absolute garbage, it needs to be removed from the game.   You don't like the hit?  Hit them back, it's allowed!   A finesse/smaller player pretending to fight isn't showing a backbone.   I cringe everytime Krebs steps in and gets ragdolled, it's a joke.    The team as a group elevating their physicality is the proper response.   Get his number and put a target on them the rest of the game, tell your physical players to go out of their way to hit him every chance they get.

Lastly, they're at the bottom of the standings yet again in a season where playoffs were the target.   Their "lack of repsonse" in this situation isn't the problem here.

As I wrote in the OP the response didn’t have to be a fight.  Picking up the physical play, aka doing to the Devils what they started doing us, would have been an adequate response.  Instead they folded again like a cheap tent.  Only UPL prevented a loss.  

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The funny thing is that it was Lindy who sent the goon squad out against Ottawa after Neil's cheap shot to the head of Chris Drury.  No one remembers who won or lost that game, but everyone remembers the response of the Sabres to the cheap shot.  

Lindy knows that the win was less important than the message that the Sabres are up for any fight.  Sadly even Lindy has been beaten down by the sad culture of this team.   

 

Which team needed the 2 points more?  

Lindy’s second term has been a failure.  The team is worse than last year.  At a minimum, he was supposed to help improve the culture.   His post game interview was a disjointed rant.   He actually was sarcastic about giving the boys Monday off.  

It’s sad to see actually.  

[pi2000]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Did they?

They'd just stepped on the ice on for a line change. The puck was gone across the ice toward the other blue line.

Samuelsson said flat out he didn't see it. Zucker's head flips back and forth like "what just happened there?" Power made a half-hearted overture toward Seigenthaler like "was that you that did that bad thing?"

No one was even looking at Noesen.

Yep, and honestly the hit didn't look that bad to me even on replay.   Tage put himself in a bad spot, he exposed himself leading with his head... not excusing the hit, but it there was no elbow thrown and he didn't leave his feet.   Still dirty but have seen much much worse.