Is next year's spine appearing before our eyes?

[inkman]

3 hours ago, Thorner said:

We have no interest in making the playoffs next year if Kulich lines up in the top 6 to start the year 

Like, zero 

but to answer your question: no it’s not a desired stat line for a C on this particular team, because we don’t seem to have any traditional playmaking centres 

Fine but that’s his trajectory.  He’s not remotely close to having a skill set requisite for a bottom six role.  Unless they want him in a mismatch offensive 3rd line role akin to Roy-Vanek-Afinogenov style.  

[PerreaultForever]

Just to be devil's advocate, so we get even younger, again?

I agree that Kulich is this year's pleasant surprise (as he's ahead of his timeline) and Kozak might become a decent bottom 6 guy so a great pick but really the failing is in how useless Lafferty has been not how decent Kozak has played. It's all relative. The bottom line reconstruction has been a complete failure. Fourth line this year is a downgrade from Girgs-Krebs-Kyle not the promised improvement.

Krebs might be playing his way into 3C. More suited to 4C imo but he has built his face off game and 2 way game and is a reasonable role player now. In many ways Krebs is the new Girgensens. Expectation of being a scoring center ending up as a solid bottom role player with a bit of grit. So Girgs out Krebs in we are younger but not better. 

Kulich is very promising but he needs to work on his defensive game still (like many of them) and he could use some more muscle and size. I expect him to eventually be a 2 or 3C but it is a mistake to rush him. We always rush them and it almost always bites us. Get more veterans and have these guys push those veterans out if they are able to. Develop them properly. 

[Night Train]

Sabres need moves in addition to the so called promising young guys.

Yes, salary is a factor. I would think Cozens, Power, Muel and others would be trade chips. JMO. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Having McCleod as a third or fourth line center is fine with me. I don't know why you are so negative toward having McLeod being a third or fourth line center for us? He's gives you a veteran presence, provides speed and is a good character guy to have mingling with the youngsters. And there is a good possibility that if you provide McCleod with more productive wingers his production will also go up. 

The bold is a bit of a stretch ... he is 25 and this is just his 4th full NHL season. His 264 games played puts him behind Cozens and essentially ties him with Krebs for games played. He played on a team that knew how to win, so I guess there is that? Heck, Power has 210 games.

And I suppose 25 is borderline ancient for this lineup, lol.

[JohnC]

48 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

The bold is a bit of a stretch ... he is 25 and this is just his 4th full NHL season. His 264 games played puts him behind Cozens and essentially ties him with Krebs for games played. He played on a team that knew how to win, so I guess there is that? Heck, Power has 210 games.

And I suppose 25 is borderline ancient for this lineup, lol.

Comparatively, on this roster he is an experienced player who also has playoff experience. The key issue is how you play more than how long you have played. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Comparatively, on this roster he is an experienced player who also has playoff experience. The key issue is how you play more than how long you have played. 

fair enough. I don't know that I have been struck by any special 'maturity' in his game. That said - I am firmly in the "keep McLeod camp", just picking at "veteran" because it is a sorta interesting topic and I am bored at work 🙂 

[mjd1001]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

How about having Cozens playing on a wing with Kulich centering for him? I would still like a second line winger added to the mix. That is doable.

My daily Cozens bashing:

It is almost getting comical how whenever Lindy changes line, whoever goes with Cozens gets worse and whoever leaves him to go to another line gets better.  I usually look at the basic stats, which shows this clearly. (+/-, points)  But after rewatching last nights game, I looked into just what happened last night.

Last night Tuch spent the night with Cozens (And Kozak):

Rel CF% for Cozens-Tuch-Kozak:  -21.64.  Benson-Krebs-Quinn: -3.63. Thompson-Kulich-Peterka: +21.96

Rel Fenwisk. Cozens-Tuch-Kozak: -17.65.  Benson-Krebs-Quinn: -9.02.  Thompson-Kulich-Peterak: +21.16

Cozens rarely makes his linemates better. In most cases their production (and for last nights game with new line-mate, their underlying metrics) crash and burn when they are put on the ice with Cozens.

 

[Thorner]

6 hours ago, msw2112 said:

I don't know if the premise of the original post has legs after only a game or two, but hey, given the miserable season that we're all experiencing, I'm OK with someone expressing a little optimism about some aspects of the Sabres.  Kulich has looked good.  Quinn has been scoring the last couple of weeks, after being left for dead earlier in the season.  Zucker has played well and Kozak has shown that he may have a future as a hard-working bottom-six player.  The Sabres won a game last night, with a third period comeback, and didn't give up a goal in a 6 on 5 situation.  At this point, with the playoffs pretty much out of reach, and some of us masochists still watching all the games, why not enjoy at least the occasional positive?

It doesn't mean that the Sabres don't need a major organizational shakeup sometime between now and the beginning of next season.

The Quinn example is a good argument for why both optimism being warranted and caution when projecting out for next year are both apt. When considering team building in the immediate future (in the name of achieving a goal, presumably playoffs), i don’t believe the issue is one where said optimism strictly applies for the better 

Re: Quinn: we aren’t (see: shouldn’t be) in the business of development years anymore. It’s great Quinn appears to be coming along, im optimistic on his future, but it doesn’t change the fact we were counting on him for a full season of production in the name of helping facilitate a playoff berth: that was supposed to be the goal. Obviously his season in totality has fallen drastically short on that front. So we have to look at Quinn both in the context of an individual level and what the team expected of him. The latter is a management flaw. 

We can be optimistic about Kulich, but in the spirit of addressing the thread supposition, I think counting on a full season of solid production from Kulich next year in any kind of important role is negligent team building, optimism/pessimism neither here nor there 

Edited 3 hours ago by Thorner

[Stoner]

16 minutes ago, Thorner said:

The Quinn example is a good argument for why both optimism being warranted and caution when projecting out for next year are both apt. When considering team building in the immediate future (in the name of achieving a goal, presumably playoffs), i don’t believe the issue is one where said optimism strictly applies for the better 

Re: Quinn: we aren’t (see: shouldn’t be) in the business of development years anymore. It’s great Quinn appears to be coming along, im optimistic on his future, but it doesn’t change the fact we were counting on him for a full season of production in the name of helping facilitate a playoff berth: that was supposed to be the goal. Obviously his season in totality has fallen drastically short on that front. So we have to look at Quinn both in the context of an individual level and what the team expected of him. The latter is a management flaw. 

We can be optimistic about Kulich, but in the spirit of addressing the thread supposition, I think counting on a full season of solid production from Kulich next year in any kind of important role is negligent team building, optimism/pessimism neither here nor there 

Keep fighting. Don't ever give up. Fight in the GDTs. Fight in the draft threads. In the random thread and on some mods' birthday. Never never never.

Your day will come. Mine did re: TP. Now I sit in my reclining chair with a shawl on and drink my Boost.

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

My daily Cozens bashing:

It is almost getting comical how whenever Lindy changes line, whoever goes with Cozens gets worse and whoever leaves him to go to another line gets better.  I usually look at the basic stats, which shows this clearly. (+/-, points)  But after rewatching last nights game, I looked into just what happened last night.

Last night Tuch spent the night with Cozens (And Kozak):

Rel CF% for Cozens-Tuch-Kozak:  -21.64.  Benson-Krebs-Quinn: -3.63. Thompson-Kulich-Peterka: +21.96

Rel Fenwisk. Cozens-Tuch-Kozak: -17.65.  Benson-Krebs-Quinn: -9.02.  Thompson-Kulich-Peterak: +21.16

Cozens rarely makes his linemates better. In most cases their production (and for last nights game with new line-mate, their underlying metrics) crash and burn when they are put on the ice with Cozens.

 

I have a different view on Cozens than most others have here. It's indisputable that Cozens has dramatically regressed this year. But let's not forget that prior to this regressive year (for a lot of players) that he has shown promise as a player. In the 23-24 season he scored 31 goals and had 37 assists with a +/- -3. In the 23-24 season he had 18 goals and 29 assists with a +/- -4.  

Instead of giving up on a young player who would likely perform better in a better functioning franchise, why not try putting him in a better position to succeed? I have felt for a long time that he is better suited to play wing. In the international tournaments, whenever he played wing with upper tier talent, he has thrived. 

I'm not against making a deal that improves this team. But right now his value is low, and the likely return won't be substantial. I still believe that he can be a capable second-line winger. I'm not throwing in the towel just yet on him. I recommend more patience and see how things development with him. I'm confident that my position is a minority position but am still comfortable with my position on this player. 

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I have been outspoken about my wish to move on from Cozens and McLeod.  I have also been outspoken about my wish for the Sabres to bring in a top 6 forward, preferably a playmaking center.  I have also been outspoken on my belief we need more vets like Zucker not less.   

However, I have been watching the Sabres again lately just to see if there is really any hope left and I have found two players, that are bringing me some hope.  They are Kozak and Kulich.   Kozak brings an honest effort every shift.  He has shown more effort in heart in his 8 games than all of Adams 4th line acquisitions except maybe Malenstyn. 

Kulich just keeps getting better with each game played.  He now has 12 points (8 goals) in 33 games and as many goals as Benson (8, 8, 41 games) and twice that of Krebs (4, 12 46 games).  Kulich also was solidly 9/20 in the face off circle last night.  

If Kozak and Kulich continue to build on this game and others like it, the Sabres just may have their 3rd and 4th line centers for the near future.  

The best news about their ascension is it frees our limited capital to begin to fix the other holes in the lineup like defense and playmaking in the top 6. 

A playmaker 1C type center is a bigger need.  From there you push our top center(s) down.  That improves multiple positions and gives more competition so that we aren't reliant on kids like Kulich and Kozak unless they can beat out a vet.  

We have to stop giving jobs to the kids, make them take the jobs away.