Is it time to consider taking away the C from Dahlin or does that do nothing and lose the player?

[DarthEbriate]

I think it does nothing and loses the player.

Back-as-a-head-coach Todd McClellan twice revoked captaincies with the Sharks. When he was hired, McClellan took the C from Marleau and gave it future HOFer Rob Blake. Then, Blake retired and Joe Thornton got the C. Then, after some more years of almost, McClellan (and maybe the front office? I don't see where anyone directly claimed responsibility) took the C and A away from Thornton and Marleau in an effort to shake up the team and get the kids to take over leadership. Thornton was age 35 when this happened and was already a HOFer barring a conviction of gambling on Sharks games.

The Sharks missed the playoffs that season after 10 straight years in the playoffs and 15 of 16 seasons overall. McClellan lost his job.
The Sharks would go on to make the playoffs again, including a Cup Final, but the talent of the team is the cause of that, not a letter on a sweater.

Don't do it. Dahlin is your captain and you roll with him until he's traded or there truly is a new core on the rise. He's 24, let him and his team grow (and get veterans to help them). You also don't get a mercenary Messier type and just hand him the captaincy before he steps on the ice, either.

Edited 23 hours ago by DarthEbriate

[Crusader1969]

6 hours ago, JP51 said:

He has good insight but there is a fan boy component to him and you can tell he is good and frustrated and wearing his emotions in his reporting for sure. 

Why would anyone listen to the media about who is liked or not? Weren't they all over Samson for his bad attitude? Sometimes players don't get along with the media and that pisses them off
 

think of all the players that have gone to Europe to train with him in the last season

if they took the C off easily their best player, a guy who cares about winning  - I think that would be the last straw for me 

[Stoner]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I see a poster who was wrong about a player they never wanted using any excuse to view that player negatively. 

Not so sure. I was putting the brakes on your hyperbole about Dahlin's trajectory. You might still be right, but it's fair to point out the major flaws. He doesn't make that much difference. You can be a 70 point team without him. 

Point of fact I never predicted Dahlin would be a bust or anything like that.

Edited 20 hours ago by Stoner

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, Stoner said:

Not so sure. I was putting the brakes on your hyperbole about Dahlin's trajectory. You might still be right, but it's fair to point out the major flaws. He doesn't make that much difference. You can be a 70 point team without him. 

Point of fact I never predicted Dahlin would be a bust or anything like that.

Arguably we’d be even worse without him. 8 of our 13 game losing streak included his injury.

[sabremike]

A few months before the undisputed Worst Trade In Hockey History (a trade so bad it literally was a significant contributing factor in killing a team) the Whalers made the decision to strip Ron Francis of the captaincy (as if he was the problem and not Ed Johnston being an incompetent moron and Rick Ley being an awful coach) and the next night the Whalers got crushed in a game where they put up a grand total of 8 shots. 

Yeah, stripping Dahlin of the C would be a catastrophically stupid idea.

[SABRES 0311]

There’s plenty of blame to go around but I put little on Dahlin or any captain. Not his fault some guys over pass, play soft, lose defensive coverage, miss the net, and get stuck puck chasing out of position.

Removing the “C” might only send a message if the captain was screwing up. 

There are a couple “A”s that should be ripped off, burned, never to be seen again though.

[PerreaultForever]

Well, since you asked, I guess I'd say no, you don't take it away. I said giving him the C was a mistake and I think I was right, but once it's done it's done and there's no justification to remove it. He's far from being the main problem. 

I will say this though, in the tear down, when they ditched Reinhart Eichel and Risto I wondered if Dahlin should have been in that tear down group as he had a lot of losing stink on him too since he started so young. I wondered if he could escape that mindset they were trying to clear out or if he'd fall back into accepting losing too easily and drag others into that along the way. idk, too late now, but maybe another tear down and a different rebuild is the only answer long term. I just don't know. It's hard to believe it's still not working. 

 

[Crusader1969]

51 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Arguably we’d be even worse without him. 8 of our 13 game losing streak included his injury.

Did he say doesn't make any difference without him??? 😂😂😂😂😂

im thinking maybe Stoner may not have the best memory 

[erickompositör72]

The least of this team's problems are the letters on anyone's sweater.

[inkman]

 

[JP51]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Well, since you asked, I guess I'd say no, you don't take it away. I said giving him the C was a mistake and I think I was right, but once it's done it's done and there's no justification to remove it. He's far from being the main problem. 

I will say this though, in the tear down, when they ditched Reinhart Eichel and Risto I wondered if Dahlin should have been in that tear down group as he had a lot of losing stink on him too since he started so young. I wondered if he could escape that mindset they were trying to clear out or if he'd fall back into accepting losing too easily and drag others into that along the way. idk, too late now, but maybe another tear down and a different rebuild is the only answer long term. I just don't know. It's hard to believe it's still not working. 

 

I like you was in the Tuch camp... and again I completely see that they gave it to Dahlin... but I honestly dont think revisiting that decision would do anything to improve the team. I think like inkman said unless he was universally despised in the locker room etc... and I dont believe that to be the case... but if you take it away you are literally trading him at some point.  I dont think that is the answer either unless it was part of a massive trade that landed you the best player in the deal like the Turgeon/Lafontaine trade.

[thewookie1]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

 

 

Great job finding the occasional gaffe like any other #1 Defenseman has; I know you have some crusade against the guy but we would be far worse without him.

[inkman]

Just now, thewookie1 said:

 

Great job finding the occasional gaffe like any other #1 Defenseman has; I know you have some crusade against the guy but we would be far worse without him.

Sure I just wish he had an ounce of likability.  

[thewookie1]

2 minutes ago, inkman said:

Sure I just wish he had an ounce of likability.  

He's a Swedish guy who plays far more physical than the majority of his countrymen and puts up points regularly. He's never going to be a "rah rah" yelling type or a good ole' Canadian boy if that's what you want.

[LGR4GM]

Better question, why does Samuelsson still have an A or why does Cozens? 

[DarthEbriate]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Better question, why does Samuelsson still have an A or why does Cozens? 

There is a direct correlation between contract term and the Sabres letters. Or what Adams would like to call (or what I privately think Adams calls) "wantstobeheredness".

If someone loses a letter, Power is next up. And next year he'll be 23 and old enough to be a leader on the roster.

[JP51]

1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said:

There is a direct correlation between contract term and the Sabres letters. Or what Adams would like to call (or what I privately think Adams calls) "wantstobeheredness".

If someone loses a letter, Power is next up. And next year he'll be 23 and old enough to be a leader on the roster.

Quite honestly, less of an issue with Cozens, he at least gets pissed off when we lose.... Power and Muel are completely indicative of what this team is about... have the physical capability to play the game properly like real hockey players but not the will... they either hide or are injured at the first sign of contact... clearly based on management choosing them we see what they value in a skater... 

[LTS]

21 hours ago, JP51 said:

When I read Hamilton say that it is becoming apparent that Dahlin couldnt lead this team I immediately thought... get him a better team then... 

I didn't read Hamilton's statement so I don't have full context but one way to read it is that this team cannot handle the way Dahlin leads. It doesn't mean Dahlin is wrong in how he does it. I do see someone who gets tired of the mistakes of players and I see a young adult who hasn't learned the wisdom to always handle that well.

What I don't see is a player who does not care. Who does not demand more from himself (perhaps too much).  I have made arguments in the past about Dahlin and the C and questioned it, but he's the only player on this roster I would give the C at the moment they decided to hand it out.

Tuch has all the makings of the "feel good" guy. No thanks.  No accountability.

3 hours ago, inkman said:

 

So an absolute HOF player makes a play and you think that does not make Dahlin captain material?

32 minutes ago, inkman said:

Sure I just wish he had an ounce of likability.  

I love his personality. I think he does some bad things on the ice still but I also don't see him as infallible, like any human isn't.

[inkman]

25 minutes ago, LTS said:

I didn't read Hamilton's statement so I don't have full context but one way to read it is that this team cannot handle the way Dahlin leads. It doesn't mean Dahlin is wrong in how he does it. I do see someone who gets tired of the mistakes of players and I see a young adult who hasn't learned the wisdom to always handle that well.

What I don't see is a player who does not care. Who does not demand more from himself (perhaps too much).  I have made arguments in the past about Dahlin and the C and questioned it, but he's the only player on this roster I would give the C at the moment they decided to hand it out.

Tuch has all the makings of the "feel good" guy. No thanks.  No accountability.

So an absolute HOF player makes a play and you think that does not make Dahlin captain material?

I love his personality. I think he does some bad things on the ice still but I also don't see him as infallible, like any human isn't.

He has a personality?

[JP51]

28 minutes ago, LTS said:

I didn't read Hamilton's statement so I don't have full context but one way to read it is that this team cannot handle the way Dahlin leads. It doesn't mean Dahlin is wrong in how he does it. I do see someone who gets tired of the mistakes of players and I see a young adult who hasn't learned the wisdom to always handle that well.

What I don't see is a player who does not care. Who does not demand more from himself (perhaps too much).  I have made arguments in the past about Dahlin and the C and questioned it, but he's the only player on this roster I would give the C at the moment they decided to hand it out.

Tuch has all the makings of the "feel good" guy. No thanks.  No accountability.

So an absolute HOF player makes a play and you think that does not make Dahlin captain material?

I love his personality. I think he does some bad things on the ice still but I also don't see him as infallible, like any human isn't.

Its on the GR website... I have heard others say that in passing which is why I brought it up... but this to me really isnt a serious statement nor are people beating war drums... When I heard it  I just thought it peculiar and wanted to see if others were thinking like that... as far as Dahlin this is not a guy who I screw with mentally the talent level is rare... so taking the C away I think would be destructive .

 From my perspective Hamilton is a fair reporter at times but he is emotionally involved and is subject to letting those emotions creep into his reporting when he gets pissed. So, I dont put a lot of stock in that... 

[LGR4GM]

4 hours ago, inkman said:

 

My favorite part about this play is how Alex Tuch is not in position, Jokiharju is not in position, and I think Benson comes in late on Kopitar. Still, Dahlin needs to be better there. 

[GoPuckYourself]

I’m probably 1 of the more harsher critics of Dahlin. His offensive game is really good but his situational awareness especially at key times is mid to mediocre imo and his defensive game still to me is mid not elite but I still blame coaching, this guy should be a Drew Doughty who can score by now and it’s pretty sad that he isn’t.

With all that said stripping the C from him makes little sense or any of the others this season at least as Dahlin is our best player on the ice most nights.

[steveoath]

Dahlin is the most important player in the roster at the moment. His play (the most important yardstick speaks for itself and has been discussed thread.
 

From the short snippets of interviews on wgr post game he cares. He can identify the causes of problems on ice. I think he stops short of calling people out publicly, but doesn’t take much detective work to ID who we was talking about in the last post game. 

[JP51]

2 hours ago, steveoath said:

Dahlin is the most important player in the roster at the moment. His play (the most important yardstick speaks for itself and has been discussed thread.
 

From the short snippets of interviews on wgr post game he cares. He can identify the causes of problems on ice. I think he stops short of calling people out publicly, but doesn’t take much detective work to ID who we was talking about in the last post game. 

I think he does care... I get he doesnt call players out. but I dont think that is him... the worst thing he can do is not be his authentic self for sure... 

[inkman]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

My favorite part about this play is how Alex Tuch is not in position, Jokiharju is not in position, and I think Benson comes in late on Kopitar. Still, Dahlin needs to be better there. 

You call out every mediocre player on the Sabres vs our HOF in waiting franchise defenseman who someone managed to completely miss on a puck that he had dead to rights.  He needs to never make that mistake.  He also needs way better situational awareness.  Several times a game he does something that makes me ask if he understands fundamental hockey.  I’m genuinely curious. He makes the most difficult play almost exclusively.