Real issue with the Sabres

[HumanSlinky39]

8 hours ago, MISabresFan said:

Looking at the playoff graph and comparing to the last two years, this team is on course to have the worst record.

2022-23: 42-33-7, 91 Pts

2023-24: 39-37-6, 84 Pts

2024-25 (pace): 31-42-9, 71 Pts

That would be two straight seasons of diminishing results after showing promise late in the 2022-23 season, with a sharp drop off in year 3. That is NOT the trajectory you should have with a roster full of young players that you're building around. One would expect incremental improvement, or even if there's a hiccup, at least some indication of forward progress in the aggregate. There is no evidence of anything resembling progress; in fact, there's near across the board regression across these three seasons.

+/- NHL .500

2022-23: +9

2023-24: +2

2024-25 (pace): -11

This rebuild is failing, full stop.

Edited January 14 by HumanSlinky39

[Flashsabre]

16 minutes ago, HumanSlinky39 said:

2022-23: 42-33-7, 91 Pts

2023-24: 39-37-6, 84 Pts

2024-25 (pace): 31-42-9, 71 Pts

That would be two straight seasons of diminishing results after showing promise late in the 2022-23 season, with a sharp drop off in year 3. That is NOT the trajectory you should have with a roster full of young players that you're building around. One would expect incremental improvement, or even if there's a hiccup, at least some indication of forward progress in the aggregate. There is no evidence of anything resembling progress; in fact, there's near across the board regression across these three seasons.

+/- NHL .500

2022-23: +9

2023-24: +2

2024-25 (pace): -11

This rebuild is failing, full stop.

Lindy was brought back because Adams wanted someone to bring accountability and teach them how to be mentally strong and how to win games.  It has failed miserably.  Adams has failed miserably.

But there is no doubt in my mind that Adams has been handcuffed as well. Handcuffed financially. Bringing Lindy back and keeping the rest of this failed staff was setting Lindy up to fail.

Adams needs to go but I’m convinced they just slide Karmanos or Forton into the spot so more money isn’t being spent and that person just has to follow Pegula’s plan to the tee.

[sabremike]

Breaking news: Sabres announce plans for this season's fan appreciation night:

 

[mjd1001]

44 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Lindy was brought back because Adams wanted someone to bring accountability and teach them how to be mentally strong and how to win games.  It has failed miserably.  Adams has failed miserably.

But there is no doubt in my mind that Adams has been handcuffed as well. Handcuffed financially. Bringing Lindy back and keeping the rest of this failed staff was setting Lindy up to fail.

Adams needs to go but I’m convinced they just slide Karmanos or Forton into the spot so more money isn’t being spent and that person just has to follow Pegula’s plan to the tee.

And if that happens, the team will be run pretty much the same. Especially since Karmanos and Forton are already in on the decision making/player evaluation right now, and the roster composition has some of their fingerprints on it.

[Dreams Burn Down]

37 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Breaking news: Sabres announce plans for this season's fan appreciation night:

 

The pan-out to the queue was what got me.

[steveoath]

So Adams has taken 5 years to build the worst team in East. OUT

Talent evaluation OVERHAUL needed. 
 

Players who require an external force for accountability TRADE BLOCK/AHL

[Flashsabre]

34 minutes ago, steveoath said:

So Adams has taken 5 years to build the worst team in East. OUT

Talent evaluation OVERHAUL needed. 
 

Players who require an external force for accountability TRADE BLOCK/AHL

When you hire employees who aren’t qualified to do their job and then can’t figure out why it’s 14 years without the playoffs. Get a clue Terry.

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

And if that happens, the team will be run pretty much the same. Especially since Karmanos and Forton are already in on the decision making/player evaluation right now, and the roster composition has some of their fingerprints on it.

I’m by no means saying it would work out fine, but I don’t think Karmanos would simply carry on with the Adams plan. I don’t think the management structure is as flat as you suggest. I don’t doubt Adams seeks and relies on feedback, but I think he ultimately makes the call.  Karmanos worked for years under Jim Rutherford, a man not afraid to make a deal. I don’t think things would be the same. Better?  Who knows. I don’t think it can be definitively said that it would be pretty much the same though. I would be shocked if Karmanos doesn’t have a mental list by now, of things he would do differently. 

[mjd1001]

10 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

 I would be shocked if Karmanos doesn’t have a mental list by now, of things he would do differently. 

I guess it could be similar to when Granato was an assistant under Ralph Kruger... But when he took over he seemed to be a totally different coach than Krueger was. 

I just go back to my initial feeling though, even if somebody is different than Adams, how much are they going to be allowed to do if they have to follow the 'Pegula plan'

If everything has to get run by Terry... Terry acts like a fan and he has his favorite players that he doesn't want to move and he still wants input on decisions.... Just how much can anyone do unless the owner steps back?

[Wyldnwoody44]

What's perplexing is that even in other years where we were bad... Most of them... Some sort of change happened or at least there were inklings that something would be tweaked. 

I just feel this year is so much different, Terry even flying to the team and etc. Like this is the plan and That is that, done. 

Yet here we are putting up some of the worst numbers in years and regressing rapidly and the stubbornness is at an all time high. Hard to really fathom to be quite honest. 

There isn't a solution, even with a new owner and new GM and etc, it will take this team more than a season to turn it around I fear. 

[Archie Lee]

33 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I guess it could be similar to when Granato was an assistant under Ralph Kruger... But when he took over he seemed to be a totally different coach than Krueger was. 

I just go back to my initial feeling though, even if somebody is different than Adams, how much are they going to be allowed to do if they have to follow the 'Pegula plan'

If everything has to get run by Terry... Terry acts like a fan and he has his favorite players that he doesn't want to move and he still wants input on decisions.... Just how much can anyone do unless the owner steps back?

I think it’s fair to say that an experienced POHO or GM hired externally, is more likely to demand more control. Which would be a good thing. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

And if that happens, the team will be run pretty much the same. Especially since Karmanos and Forton are already in on the decision making/player evaluation right now, and the roster composition has some of their fingerprints on it.

Karmanos is part of the Sabre staff. But that doesn't mean that if he replaced KA he would continue to maintain the status quo. That would be a foolish response by him. Anyone who replaces KA would be well aware that a change in course would be expected and needed. 

The critical issue right now isn't who will replace KA as it is will the tinkering owner allow the hockey staff (however it is rearranged) to do their jobs without his blundering interference. The truth of the matter is just as our current GM is ill-equipped for the job, so is Terry Pegula ill equipped to be a successful owner. His lack of awareness of his limited talents as an NHL owner has shackled this fading franchise.  

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

And if that happens, the team will be run pretty much the same. Especially since Karmanos and Forton are already in on the decision making/player evaluation right now, and the roster composition has some of their fingerprints on it.

Maybe not.  Group dynamics will change with a new leader.   Based on the rumors, Adam’s has targeted some very good players, but deals do not happen.   Maybe Karmanos is a better closer and can pull off a few good trades?  Maybe he is more respected among other GMs?  

Keep in mind that Karmanos had a better resume, with much better hockey operations experience, than Adams did when Adams was given the GM job.  Karmanos spent six seasons with the Pittsburgh, and was their AGM for three seasons. He was their vice president of hockey operations prior to that.  He runs Rochester right now.  

Edited January 15 by Pimlach

[SabreFinn]

https://thehockeywriters.com/why-sabres-latest-rebuild-failed/

 Pretty much what has been discussed here over and over, but I posted the link anyway.

[Pimlach]

On 1/14/2025 at 4:43 PM, Wyldnwoody44 said:

What's perplexing is that even in other years where we were bad... Most of them... Some sort of change happened or at least there were inklings that something would be tweaked. 

I just feel this year is so much different, Terry even flying to the team and etc. Like this is the plan and That is that, done. 

Yet here we are putting up some of the worst numbers in years and regressing rapidly and the stubbornness is at an all time high. Hard to really fathom to be quite honest. 

There isn't a solution, even with a new owner and new GM and etc, it will take this team more than a season to turn it around I fear. 

I think Terry is naive enough to think his pep talk in Montreal would help them.   Instead things have been worse.  All he did was message that losing was ok.  There is no winning standard right now.  

[FrenchConnection44]

The real issue with ‘being a Sabres fan’:

 

 

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

The real issue with ‘being a Sabres fan’:

 

 

How can we be better than the A’s? At least they have Brad Pitt

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Thorner said:

How can we be better than the A’s? At least they have Brad Pitt

and a bunch of championships in the 1970s. 

[Second Line Center]

On 1/14/2025 at 2:40 PM, Flashsabre said:

Lindy was brought back because Adams wanted someone to bring accountability and teach them how to be mentally strong and how to win games.  

Making that public - and the players robotically repeating it on locker clean out day faking they believed it and were on board - was actually them quitting on their GM.  

They were essentially told they were lazy losers.  
 

Adams lost them forever right there.  
 

He's going to be fired in April.  We’re just going to have to ride with this miserable season till then.  

[SABRES 0311]

Not trying to be a jerk and maybe I’m hitting my breaking point with this team.

Who cares what their problems are?        
 

-None of us have any say in it.

-The organization doesn’t care about embarrassing game attendance.

-The owner doesn’t care enough to hire the best possible people for management positions.

-They will miss the playoffs again this year and nothing has been done in response to a 13 game losing streak.

- Besides Dahlin, a lot of cap was spent on marginal talent that will not be as good as their contractual worth.

Bottom line is we already know all the problems and they get rehashed in copy cat threads. At this point they’re something to watch to kill some free time. Hope a number of huge things happen this summer or it’ll be 15 years.

Edited Sunday at 10:10 AM by SABRES 0311

[FrenchConnection44]

6 hours ago, Thorner said:

How can we be better than the A’s? At least they have Brad Pitt

😂. True.

And the 4 WS Titles  

Maybe because they moved? 🤷🏼‍♂️

I used to be a huge Buffalo Braves fan. But I sure ain’t a Clippers fan! 

[Pimlach]

18 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

Making that public - and the players robotically repeating it on locker clean out day faking they believed it and were on board - was actually them quitting on their GM.  

They were essentially told they were lazy losers.  
 

Adams lost them forever right there.  
 

He's going to be fired in April.  We’re just going to have to ride with this miserable season till then.  

I was surprised by the players comments at locker clean out.  They fiercely defended Granato during the season, recall the fan salute thing, and then afterwards It felt like some of the players were throwing him under the bus.   Very strange situation in Sabreland.  

Edited yesterday at 03:35 AM by Pimlach

[Archie Lee]

4 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

Making that public - and the players robotically repeating it on locker clean out day faking they believed it and were on board - was actually them quitting on their GM.  

They were essentially told they were lazy losers.  
 

Adams lost them forever right there.  
 

He's going to be fired in April.  We’re just going to have to ride with this miserable season till then.  

I think this is important.  As fans, we generally recognized what a sham the coaching search and hire was (regardless of anyone's affection for Ruff's historical contributions to the team, which I share). The players almost certainly saw this also.  The modern NHL player has been well-trained in media-speak and to not say anything controversial.  The players all have friends on other teams and they have eyes and brains.  They know how a well-run NHL team is managed and they know how the Sabres are managed.  Honestly, I'm at the point of thinking the players deserve credit for appearing to still care as much as they do.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

Do we really care anyone longer about what the public speak from anyone associated with the Sabres say?  

Actions speak louder than words.  

What management says is meaningless.  Their actions; bad roster construction, bad contracts, and bad personnel moves have destroyed the team.

The coaches haven’t made any improvement in the play of this team for the last season and half.  Why should what they say matter? The players don’t seem to listen why should we?

Most of the young Sabres are regressing on the ice again?  Apathy? Lack of talent? Poor work ethic? Injuries? Who knows, but whatever they say about their effort is clearly not reflected in results.  

 

Edited Sunday at 01:54 PM by GASabresIUFAN

[LTS]

8 hours ago, FrenchConnection44 said:

The real issue with ‘being a Sabres fan’:

 

 

Is there anything that qualifies that graphic or did someone just make an image with some sports teams logos on it?

I'm not necessarily debating who's on it and certainly not the Sabres.