Real issue with the Sabres

[GASabresIUFAN]

The real with the Sabres, besides a lack of heart, is their terrible defense.  The Sabres are tied for 14th in the NHL in goals with 132, but are 27th in GA (6th worst) with 146 .  I wonder where the solution to the Sabres really lies?

Edited Sunday at 04:46 AM by GASabresIUFAN

[SABRES 0311]

31 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The real with the Sabres, besides a lack of heart, is their terrible defense.  The Sabres are tied for 14th in the NHL in goals with 132, but are 27th in GA (6th worst) with 146 .  I wonder where the solution to the Sabres really lies?

More guys like Zucker, Greenway, and dare I say Tuch. More proven talent and experience and less projected (theoretical) talent. Some of which is not and likely will not be what their contracts, GM, and fanboys want them to be.

[DarthEbriate]

34 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The real with the Sabres, besides a lack of heart, is their terrible defense.  The Sabres are tied for 14th in the NHL in goals with 132, but are 27th in GA (6th worst) with 146 .  I wonder where the solution to the Sabres really lies?

Granato was going to teach them defense, but then Ruff was available so they fired him and he never got around to it. 😇

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Granato was going to teach them defense, but then Ruff was available so they fired him and he never got around to it. 😇

Maybe hire players that already know how to play defense so that the NHL coaches don’t have to teach them the basics.  Crazy thought I know.  

[sabremike]

The real issue with the Sabres is the incompetent festering boil on the ass of the sport who owns them. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The real with the Sabres, besides a lack of heart, is their terrible defense.  The Sabres are tied for 14th in the NHL in goals with 132, but are 27th in GA (6th worst) with 146 .  I wonder where the solution to the Sabres really lies?

Yes, because they insist on puck moving offensive D men rather than block shots move bodies etc defensive defensemen. That and most of the forwards prefer to play offense as well and make poor decisions accordingly. It's the team they have built. It's what Terry wants. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

21 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Yes, because they insist on puck moving offensive D men rather than block shots move bodies etc defensive defensemen. That and most of the forwards prefer to play offense as well and make poor decisions accordingly. It's the team they have built. It's what Terry wants. 

It's what Washington wanted until they brought in Trotz.  It was what NJ wanted until they added goaltending and Marino.  Until this team embraces both ends of the ice, this team will continue to fail.

[Archie Lee]

The Sabres have the youngest team in the league. They have not constructed a roster with any players known as defensive stalwarts (maybe Greenway, who is injured). And they selected a HC who in his last decade as a head coach, back to Dallas, has consistently iced among the league’s worst defensive teams. I think they could play better defensively with a better coach. I think a Ruff team could play better defensively if better constructed and more experienced. The current combination was never going to be good defensively. 

[Sidc3000]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Maybe hire players that already know how to play defense so that the NHL coaches don’t have to teach them the basics.  Crazy thought I know.  

What a novel idea. That is some serious thinking outside the box 😂

[mjd1001]

They are allowing 1 goal every 3 games more than the median team (15-16 place in goals allowed)

I think getting them to that point is easily made up by goaltending.  The team defense in front of the goalie isn't great, but you are getting less from UPL this year than you did last year.  Enough to make up 1 goal every 3 games? I think so.

Stats tell me that they have the 4th worst save percentage in the league.  Also the Sabres are NOT allowing a vastly large number of high danger chances than a typical team, enough to make up for the extra goals allowed.  Beyond the stats though, I can tell you my opinion is that I am seeing a lot of goals allowed that I say in my head after "he needs to make that save".

UPL isn't awful.  I like him and I think he should still be the starter here. But his overall play has been less than stellar this year.  Put "last years UPL" on this years team, with the same performance he had last year, and this team is at worst middle-of-the-pack in goals allowed.

Edited Sunday at 01:46 PM by mjd1001

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The real with the Sabres, besides a lack of heart, is their terrible defense.  The Sabres are tied for 14th in the NHL in goals with 132, but are 27th in GA (6th worst) with 146 .  I wonder where the solution to the Sabres really lies?

Probably should have fired the coach who's ran the defense for 3 years and also actually added real defense depth. Joker, Samuelsson and another guy gotta go. 

[LTS]

As @LGR4GM said. You want a face to focus on for poor defense? Here it is.

But then again.. just go deeper.. and let's see what's really changed over the past few seasons:

• Marty Wilford: Coaches defense and penalty kill
• Seth Appert: Assistant coach and forwards and power play coach
• Matt Ellis: Coaches centermen and faceoff circle improvement

Seth Appert who ran the same PP in Rochester as Granato did in Buffalo.  No real change. Lately they are slightly different once they get in zone, but their zone entries are still horrible.

They are still horrible at face-offs.

Nothing really changed. Ruff was brought in as a consultant head coach to pave the way for Appert and I am sure Ruff's opinion now is that these guys should not be coaches.

[bob_sauve28]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The real with the Sabres, besides a lack of heart, is their terrible defense.  The Sabres are tied for 14th in the NHL in goals with 132, but are 27th in GA (6th worst) with 146 .  I wonder where the solution to the Sabres really lies?

That's the issue, pure and simple. They don't hate to lose. It's not a big deal for them to lose

[Stoner]

22 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

That's the issue, pure and simple. They don't hate to lose. It's not a big deal for them to lose

Winning or losing has been a side issue. It hasn't mattered as long as any of them have been in Buffalo. They can see that the GM is either disinterested in winning now or unable to make NHL-standard moves to do so. They came up at a time when individual development trumped team development. Many of them have developed. People see the talent. But they have no frickin clue how to play the game. They stripe it on the driving range but exactly zero of them have ever stood on the first tee.

Edited Sunday at 03:01 PM by Stoner

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Probably should have fired the coach who's ran the defense for 3 years and also actually added real defense depth

Y’a think?  He should be fired today.  

[LGR4GM]

It's kinda of amazing that Adams kept all the same coaches minus Granato, and all the same players minus the 4th line, and was like "yea, we're better now!"

[Jorcus]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

They are allowing 1 goal every 3 games more than the median team (15-16 place in goals allowed)

I think getting them to that point is easily made up by goaltending.  The team defense in front of the goalie isn't great, but you are getting less from UPL this year than you did last year.  Enough to make up 1 goal every 3 games? I think so.

Stats tell me that they have the 4th worst save percentage in the league.  Also the Sabres are NOT allowing a vastly large number of high danger chances than a typical team, enough to make up for the extra goals allowed.  Beyond the stats though, I can tell you my opinion is that I am seeing a lot of goals allowed that I say in my head after "he needs to make that save".

UPL isn't awful.  I like him and I think he should still be the starter here. But his overall play has been less than stellar this year.  Put "last years UPL" on this years team, with the same performance he had last year, and this team is at worst middle-of-the-pack in goals allowed.

 

Maybe part of it is UPL but the style of play in front of him I think is a bigger issue. When did UPL get good last year? Ironically it was a January 9th 5-2 loss to the Kracken  with Levi in the net that ended up sending him to the Amerks. After that the Sabres became one of the better defensive teams in the NHL. UPL only gave up 4 goals 3 times in 23 games. All the rest were 3 or less in that stretch. The wheels came off against Edmonton where the Sabres gave up 8 to them on the road. UPL was pretty played out by then. 

The big difference was the style of defense. The Sabres started to play a zone keeping almost all shots to the outside. They would give up the one shot and then control the rebound and handle the puck behind the net if needed to maintain control out of the zone. UPL is good at playing with in that structure. Where he comes apart is if there are too many repeat chances in front of him. He is too big to be a scramble goalie. The third period against the Senators resembled the good defensive structure of last year. A lot of that style has to come from the forwards. If they are not all back in the zone working as a unit that goes away. It would have all worked if the power play could have supported the lack of 5 on 5 production during that stretch but it did not. Granato got fired and instead of building on that foundation it got reworked to the detriment of this team.

I think the danger of playing a fast game is that when you get tired, (we only had 3 lines yesterday) the intended result goes away. The Sabres with few exceptions got very slow and could not play in a form to chew clock and counter attack. Add the lack of shot blocking and you get what you ended up with, another blown lead with a broken defense.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

23 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It's kinda of amazing that Adams kept all the same coaches minus Granato, and all the same players minus the 4th line, and was like "yea, we're better now!"

Don’t mess with the Adams core.  To be accurate he did also bring in 2 new players (McLeod and Zucker) for the 3rd line.   

The irony of off-season is that he didn’t change any of the top 6 on defense despite horrible metrics and HDCA the last few years. 

[Pimlach]

On 1/12/2025 at 1:51 AM, PerreaultForever said:

Yes, because they insist on puck moving offensive D men rather than block shots move bodies etc defensive defensemen. That and most of the forwards prefer to play offense as well and make poor decisions accordingly. It's the team they have built. It's what Terry wants. 

Which was proven by the Byram for Mitts trade.  I really think we have the more impactful player in Byram over Mitts.  But our record shows that the trade didn't make the team better.   The team is very weak at center, and we have the luxury of three top 4 LHD puck movers.

Byram will want to get paid this off season.  If we had a GM that could flip him for center that is equal to or better than Mitts I will let this go.  But I am still baffled by the way this roster is constructed. 

 

Edited Monday at 04:09 PM by Pimlach

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Which was proven by the Byram for Mitts trade.  I really think we have the more impactful player in Byram over Mitts.  But our record shows that the trade didn't make the team better.   The team is very weak at center, and we have the luxury of three top 4 LHD puck movers.

Byram will want to get paid this off season.  If we had a GM that could flip him for center that is equal to better than Mitts I will let this go.  But I am still baffled by the way this roster is constructed. 

 

Is Byram more talented than Mitts? Probably so. But from a roster construction standpoint and team need, Mitts would have added more value to this roster. (My opinion.) What happens if Byram decides that he doesn't want to be stuck in this pitiful situation and decides he wants out like Eichel, Reinhart, ROR and others did? His trade value is diminished and if he doesn't sign, then it is another player departure with little value in return. What happens if Zucker and Greenway decide that they also want out and decline to sign here as their contracts expire? It's like taking three steps back, and then one step forward. Going backwards certainly doesn't move you forward. This is another example among many where a shambolic organization performs stupidly! 

[Pimlach]

54 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It's kinda of amazing that Adams kept all the same coaches minus Granato, and all the same players minus the 4th line, and was like "yea, we're better now!"

They released the lowly video coach so I am betting his contract was up.   They moved Matty Ellis off of the bench and to some other coaching job, so he was probably still under contract. 

This team is run on a tight budget.  They did promote Forton in title, not sure he does anything different.  

Adams added McLeod and Zucker.   Two decent moves. 

I always liked Zucker's game but  did not expect him to play this well.  Zucker is first player I would pick to have a private conversation with about the team.  I think that would be fascinating and I bet he has some excellent and constructive insight into what they need.   

The lost another bad home game.   I have to keep reminding myself that this team might need just a few key deletions and a few key additions to take a step forward.  

[bob_sauve28]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

I always liked Zucker's game but  did not expect him to play this well.  Zucker is first player I would pick to have a private conversation with about the team.  I think that would be fascinating and I bet he has some excellent and constructive insight into what they need.   

 

Yes! I'd love to ask him some questions. I always watch how he interacts with his teammates when he scores. They treat him differently, like he isn't in the clique. A one year contract thing can do that I suppose 

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Yes! I'd love to ask him some questions. I always watch how he interacts with his teammates when he scores. They treat him differently, like he isn't in the clique. A one year contract thing can do that I suppose 

I see a guy who is pouring it out every game and being a solid teammate.  Maybe he is smart enough to stay out of cliques?  He is the man among boys.  

Because he has been so solid I actually hope they move him to a contender and he gets a shot at the Cup.   I can't see him staying here beyond this season.  I  guess he could come back if they overpay.   

Edited Sunday at 09:51 PM by Pimlach

[Archie Lee]

In 2021-22, Don Granato coached a team that had the following players play 40+ games: Rasmus Asplund (80), Cody Eakin (69), Mark Pysyk (68), Jacob Bryson at age 23 (73), Vinnie Hinostroza (62), Anders Bjork (58), John Hayden (55), Robert Hagg (48), Peyton Krebs at age 20 (48), Samuelsson at age 21 (42).  The goalies were Anderson and Tokarski and when they couldn't go, and they frequently couldn't, in went Aaron Dell, Malcolm Subban, Michael Houser, and a 22 year old UPL.  The leading scorer was Thompson who finished with 38 goals and 68 points, which is his exact pace for this season.  Tuch would only play 50 games after the Eichel trade.  That team finished with 75 points, or 5 more than we are pacing for this year. 

Then the team only got younger, but improved to 91 points.  Then they slipped to 84 and Granato took the fall.

Ruff gets lots of excuses:  He didn't have goaltending in Dallas and NJ.  The current roster is too young (it is).  He needs to erase all the harm that Granato did.

Maybe Granato just better knew his roster.  Maybe Adams changed direction after last season and decided he wanted a team that committed more to D and somehow concluded that the answer was hiring Ruff, a coach whose recent history involves him coaching teams to mostly really bad defensive outcomes.  Telling the media about the importance of defense, and calling out your top two centres, and yelling in practice, and publicly acknowledging an admittedly embarrassing performance, is something I guess, but it's not coaching. 

This isn't on Ruff (though, objectively, he has been awful), and it isn't on Marty Wolford, and it isn't on Matt Ellis, and it sure isn't on Don Granato. 

Kevyn Adams did an ok job on the teardown.  That was always going to be the easiest part.  Since April of 2023 though, he has shown repeatedly and to consistent disastrous results, that he is not the GM to move this team to the next stage.  The sooner Pegula figures this out the better.  Hopefully, him being in Buffalo this weekend drives home the contrast between the Sabres and the Bills.  The Sabres don't need another rebuild. They don't need a major roster overhaul where half the team is shipped out. What they need is a competent GM who can build a playoff caliber roster and a head coach who is capable of coaching that roster to its strengths. There is no mystery.  It's not rocket surgery, Terry.    

[bob_sauve28]

44 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I see a guy who is pouring it out every game and being a solid teammate.  Maybe he is smart enough to stay out of cliques?  He is the man among boys.  

Because he has been so solid I actually hope they move him to a contender and he gets a shot at the Cup.   I can't see him staying here beyond this season.  I  guess he could come back is they overpay.   

First question: Will you resign with the team, and if yes, what will it take to get this done? 

I bet he wants out