Report: Red Wings Trade for Sabres' Dylan Cozens 'Was Close' Before Roster Freeze

[mjd1001]

22 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Rasmussen was mentioned also, so it may have been Kasper and Rasmussen for Cozens and maybe a second piece. I’m not sure what I think of that. On the one hand I see the logic. Would this then send a healthy Kulich back to Rochester?  Or Kasper to Rochester?

The frustrating part is that the Sabres need to get to the point where they are trading the two pieces for one. Cozens and a prospect for a player who is better than Cozens makes a lot of sense. Cozens for a bottom six forward and a prospect, feels like the Mitts trade where we are kicking the can down the road (I say that fully acknowledging that Kasper may turn out to be a better player than Cozens). 

I get your point.

But Cozens out and Kulich, McLeod, Krebs as your #2, #3, and #4 centers (In any order you want), I'm not so sure that is even worse than any 2 of those guys with Cozens here.

Of course, the question is, is there a better deal out that that gives you better help right now?

[Weave]

32 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Rasmussen was mentioned also, so it may have been Kasper and Rasmussen for Cozens and maybe a second piece. I’m not sure what I think of that. On the one hand I see the logic. Would this then send a healthy Kulich back to Rochester?  Or Kasper to Rochester?

The frustrating part is that the Sabres need to get to the point where they are trading the two pieces for one. Cozens and a prospect for a player who is better than Cozens makes a lot of sense. Cozens for a bottom six forward and a prospect, feels like the Mitts trade where we are kicking the can down the road (I say that fully acknowledging that Kasper may turn out to be a better player than Cozens). 

Agree completely , a trade for Kasper is kicking the can down the road at least another year.  Even suggesting this as a strategy should be a fireable offense.  “Win now” should be the two most repeated words in this organization.  
 

edited for poor reading comprehension 

Edited Monday at 02:24 PM by Weave

[GoPuckYourself]

The fact that we would trade him to Detroit says everything. There is not much we would want other than Raymond, Larkin, Seider or Edvinson which none of those players will be dealt most likely so we’d be getting fleeced by a division rival just to save money, typical. If Pegula wants yacht money just sell the team already.

[Thorner]

[DarthEbriate]

17 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

If he’s so great, then why did they trade him?

How did that trade work out?

I think that trade worked out just fine. The Sabres had a 1C to transition to all-around 2C once Eichel was ready to take over the mantle. 

If I could go back in time and see a proper team built around those two as 1C and 2C over the past 5 seasons (ROR is probably 3C this year), I would do it in a heartbeat over having TNT, Tuch, and Krebs in the lineup.

8 hours ago, Thorner said:

And note, the HaHa emoji sounds like Nelson.

[shrader]

20 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

I think that trade worked out just fine. The Sabres had a 1C to transition to all-around 2C once Eichel was ready to take over the mantle. 

Both sides of that deal won a cup… just not in Buffalo, Compher and O’Reilly. 

[mjd1001]

Maybe he's not been traded or maybe you can't get much for him from Detroit because he simply doesn't have as much value as many think.

-The rumors about teams calling for him could have been a GM calling the Sabres and saying something like "you are shopping Cozens?  Call us back before you make a move so we can have a chance to match it, but right now for a reclamation project that plays bad defense and is getting paid $7 per year, we aren't giving you more than a mid level prospect and maybe a 2nd.  You can thank us later for taking that contract off your hands"

I think there is real chance if you want to criticize Adams for not making a Cozens trade, its not that he can't make a fair trade for him....but rather a large portion of the fanbase 'overvalues' Cozens...and if Adams DOES get a 'fair' return for him, he'll get shots taken at him for getting less than what the FANS think he is worth.

-There is also a chance that a deal (or other deals involving Cozens) has been worked out, but before you can pull the trigger of course you have to run it by Pegula. Pegula, liking Cozens, is reluctant to trade him at all, but for sure he might be vetoing the trades if Pegula over-values Cozens and thinks he is worth more than what they are getting offered.

There is a debate as to just how much Pegula meddles, but I'm pretty sure any trade that gets worked out needs his final stamp of approval, and I can see him saying 'no' if his personal opinion is one of the players on the Sabres getting traded aren't getting enough return.

There is the theory that many GM's overvalue "their own" guys/picks. That can also hold true for an owner, who gets final say in the trades.

Edited Monday at 11:58 PM by mjd1001

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

Rasmussen was mentioned also, so it may have been Kasper and Rasmussen for Cozens and maybe a second piece. I’m not sure what I think of that. On the one hand I see the logic. Would this then send a healthy Kulich back to Rochester?  Or Kasper to Rochester?

The frustrating part is that the Sabres need to get to the point where they are trading the two pieces for one. Cozens and a prospect for a player who is better than Cozens makes a lot of sense. Cozens for a bottom six forward and a prospect, feels like the Mitts trade where we are kicking the can down the road (I say that fully acknowledging that Kasper may turn out to be a better player than Cozens). 

Is Kasper better? idk, I think it's too early to say on him. Problem with this is it continues the pattern of the Sabres being a development team for other teams. How do you ever win if you just keep trading for younger guys?

[thewookie1]

14 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

Rasmussen was mentioned also, so it may have been Kasper and Rasmussen for Cozens and maybe a second piece. I’m not sure what I think of that. On the one hand I see the logic. Would this then send a healthy Kulich back to Rochester?  Or Kasper to Rochester?

The frustrating part is that the Sabres need to get to the point where they are trading the two pieces for one. Cozens and a prospect for a player who is better than Cozens makes a lot of sense. Cozens for a bottom six forward and a prospect, feels like the Mitts trade where we are kicking the can down the road (I say that fully acknowledging that Kasper may turn out to be a better player than Cozens). 

I’d keep Cozens if that’s all we are getting; all we do is get cheaper and younger with even less upside. Plus we give a potential great player to a divisional rival.

[EM88]

11 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

I’d keep Cozens if that’s all we are getting; all we do is get cheaper and younger with even less upside. Plus we give a potential great player to a divisional rival.

I would strongly disagree on Cozens being even close to great.  The more I watch him and isolate on him, the more I see a hockey player who is abysmal at the basics. One who hurts the team and drags down the play of his linemates. 

I see a huge number of more negative plays with Cozens than I do postive plays. I wish that was not the case. I would love if someone could convince me that there are positives to his game to counter all the things he does that are bad. I am not using sarcasm. 

 I was neutral on him coming into the year. The 4-5 posters who bash him on a regular basis at first I thought were being too hard on him.  I was at 2 games earlier this season and watched him in person thinking this board is being hard too hard on him. Instead I ended up agreeing with a lot of the comments about his shortcomings.

If he is going to be a valuable player I suppose its possible. But it would take a lot more than him just getting on a scoring binge.  He needs to become a different hockey player in most aspects of his play.

If they can not move Cozens and his contract then of course I hope he fixes the bad parts of his game. It is very frustrating though when you see him have a game with no obvious blunders and a goal and think that he is turning the corner, only to then see the next 2-3 games in a row where he makes decisions as if he never played organized hockey previously.

Edited yesterday at 03:45 PM by EM88

[thewookie1]

40 minutes ago, EM88 said:

I would strongly disagree on Cozens being even close to great.  The more I watch him and isolate on him, the more I see a hockey player who is abysmal at the basics. One who hurts the team and drags down the play of his linemates. 

I see a huge number of more negative plays with Cozens than I do postive plays. I wish that was not the case. I would love if someone could convince me that there are positives to his game to counter all the things he does that are bad. I am not using sarcasm. 

 I was neutral on him coming into the year. The 4-5 posters who bash him on a regular basis at first I thought were being too hard on him.  I was at 2 games earlier this season and watched him in person with the intention of defending him from some of the over the top bashing. Instead I ended up agreeing with a lot of the comments about his shortcomings.

If he is going to be a valuable player I suppose its possible. But it would take a lot more than him just getting on a scoring binge.  He needs to become a different hockey player in most aspects of his play.

If they can not move Cozens and his contract then of course I hope he fixes the bad parts of his game. It is very frustrating though when you see him have a game with no obvious blunders and a goal and think that he is turning the corner, only to then see the next 2-3 games in a row where he makes decisions as if he never played organized hockey previously.

Well I said potential great, not presently great but I do understand your opinion. I just see no value in giving up on Cozens to a division rival for an even younger center and a bottom 6 player. I'd rather him flame out or take off no where near us.  

[JP51]

On 1/11/2025 at 9:14 PM, Flashsabre said:

Please don’t let Adams make any moves. Fire him and bring someone knowledgeable in.

This is Buffalo though so they will announce Adam’s 3 year extension Monday morning

This is where I am at... for the love of God do not give him control over our assets with his incompetence and complete lack of vision.  No more... let someone competent come in and assess this cluster. 

14 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Is Kasper better? idk, I think it's too early to say on him. Problem with this is it continues the pattern of the Sabres being a development team for other teams. How do you ever win if you just keep trading for younger guys?

and when the person trading them is clueless.

[LTS]

14 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Maybe he's not been traded or maybe you can't get much for him from Detroit because he simply doesn't have as much value as many think.

-The rumors about teams calling for him could have been a GM calling the Sabres and saying something like "you are shopping Cozens?  Call us back before you make a move so we can have a chance to match it, but right now for a reclamation project that plays bad defense and is getting paid $7 per year, we aren't giving you more than a mid level prospect and maybe a 2nd.  You can thank us later for taking that contract off your hands"

I think there is real chance if you want to criticize Adams for not making a Cozens trade, its not that he can't make a fair trade for him....but rather a large portion of the fanbase 'overvalues' Cozens...and if Adams DOES get a 'fair' return for him, he'll get shots taken at him for getting less than what the FANS think he is worth.

-There is also a chance that a deal (or other deals involving Cozens) has been worked out, but before you can pull the trigger of course you have to run it by Pegula. Pegula, liking Cozens, is reluctant to trade him at all, but for sure he might be vetoing the trades if Pegula over-values Cozens and thinks he is worth more than what they are getting offered.

There is a debate as to just how much Pegula meddles, but I'm pretty sure any trade that gets worked out needs his final stamp of approval, and I can see him saying 'no' if his personal opinion is one of the players on the Sabres getting traded aren't getting enough return.

There is the theory that many GM's overvalue "their own" guys/picks. That can also hold true for an owner, who gets final say in the trades.

I think that any discussion regarding the value of a player has to include whether the person stating the opinion believes the team is ruining the player or the player is bad.

Posters on here consistently lament the performance of players who have been traded away. This is something that I am sure does not go unnoticed around the league and therefore lends credence to a belief that the players themselves are not the problem. The problem either lies organizationally or it lies within the mix of players who are not being brought together to complement each other and play as a team.

I don't think any individual gets to cherry pick which viewpoint they want to use for any given player. For example, if someone believes Cozens is truly not a good NHL player then one would need to also avoid making arguments that he could be traded for anything worthwhile, at least 1:1, etc.

Right now I believe the prevailing wisdom of NHL GMs is that Buffalo is a fundamentally broken franchise and that any player on this team is worth more OFF this team than ON it.  There might be few exceptions, but I don't think those players are getting traded or for anything valuable at least.

[EM88]

37 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Well I said potential great, not presently great but I do understand your opinion. I just see no value in giving up on Cozens to a division rival for an even younger center and a bottom 6 player. I'd rather him flame out or take off no where near us.  

I respect your pov.  I just wonder how much better the 2nd line, and therefore the current team, would be with Cozens removed and replaced by a 'lesser' talented guy who is a 15 goals, 30 assist center who does not make the mistakes he does.  

I worry by keeping Cozens in his current position instead of moving him for someone else, even if the fans think it was a dumb trade, keeping him here instead  may be hurting the team right now.

I hope you are right about his potential if he stays here though.

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Well I said potential great, not presently great but I do understand your opinion. I just see no value in giving up on Cozens to a division rival for an even younger center and a bottom 6 player. I'd rather him flame out or take off no where near us.  

As much as I personally think Cozens brings down this team more than any other player, I think there is a path to keeping him here (its just no coach, GM or the owner seems interested in implementing it):

-He becomes a winger, on the 3rd line or MAYBE the 2nd. I don't care if he has more 'raw talent' than whoever his center is, he is a winger....And if its not working right away...stick with it. Give him time to get used to his new center and more importantly, give his center time to get used to Cozens.

-He does not step foot on the ice on the PP.  If you have 2 or 3 injuries, then MAYBE he goes out on the 2nd unit, but no PP time for him anymore.

-You DO put him out there on the PK, but with specific instructions to not chase the puck in his own zone.  Hes on my first PK unit, but you have to get through his head that his position, not leaving an open spot on the ice by chasing the puck, is of paramount importance.  You draw a diagram on the ice into 4 quadrants....and if he DOES chase the puck he never, ever leaves his quadrant and goes into another one that one of his teammates is already occupying.

Edited 23 hours ago by mjd1001

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, JP51 said:

This is where I am at... for the love of God do not give him control over our assets with his incompetence and complete lack of vision.  No more... let someone competent come in and assess this cluster. 

and when the person trading them is clueless.

Agreed, but I'm pretty sure Adams will just follow whatever "plan" Pegula decides is right at this moment. If Pegula likes these players and thinks we just need more time than nobody big will be moved. If Pegula is fed up with these players (any number of them) then Adams is off working on his speech/excuses for the post trade(s) press conferences. 

Pegula might not make every individual hockey decision but he definitely controls the vision and whatever timeline they are currently going to use. At this point I'm 100% sure if Adams said NO to ANY Pegula idea he'd be fired that day. The climate for a firing is ripe after all.

[JP51]

6 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Agreed, but I'm pretty sure Adams will just follow whatever "plan" Pegula decides is right at this moment. If Pegula likes these players and thinks we just need more time than nobody big will be moved. If Pegula is fed up with these players (any number of them) then Adams is off working on his speech/excuses for the post trade(s) press conferences. 

Pegula might not make every individual hockey decision but he definitely controls the vision and whatever timeline they are currently going to use. At this point I'm 100% sure if Adams said NO to ANY Pegula idea he'd be fired that day. The climate for a firing is ripe after all.

Lets pray he says no then LOL 

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, JP51 said:

Lets pray he says no then LOL 

And be replaced with someone just like him, and Pegula will likely only hire someone who will do his bidding and not disagree with him.

[JP51]

Just now, mjd1001 said:

And be replaced with someone just like him, and Pegula will likely only hire someone who will do his bidding and not disagree with him.

I refuse to believe this even though it very well may be true... but if it is... we are beyond screwed and there is literally no hope... 

[PerreaultForever]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

And be replaced with someone just like him, and Pegula will likely only hire someone who will do his bidding and not disagree with him.

Most likely. 

[mjd1001]

6 hours ago, LTS said:

Posters on here consistently lament the performance of players who have been traded away. This is something that I am sure does not go unnoticed around the league and therefore lends credence to a belief that the players themselves are not the problem. The problem either lies organizationally or it lies within the mix of players who are not being brought together to complement each other and play as a team.

I don't think any individual gets to cherry pick which viewpoint they want to use for any given player. For example, if someone believes Cozens is truly not a good NHL player then one would need to also avoid making arguments that he could be traded for anything worthwhile, at least 1:1, etc.

Right now I believe the prevailing wisdom of NHL GMs is that Buffalo is a fundamentally broken franchise and that any player on this team is worth more OFF this team than ON it.  There might be few exceptions, but I don't think those players are getting traded or for anything valuable at least.

I don't think you are going to get a good return for him. Twitter post I saw today by someone who is pretty reliable with Leafs info said the Leafs have no interest in all in Cozens.  I think that opinion may be true with many other teams around the league when you look at his underlying metrics and the scouts see with their own eyes the multiple hockey-dumb plays he makes, almost on a nightly basis.

I'd be happy with him just moving on. He can be 'part' of a package. Or get a middle-six guy, I don't care give me anything of value.

What I think will happen is what you are eluding to.....the Sabres might move him for REAL fair value (which won't be all that much, and certainly a LOT less than what some people expect)....and that might be a good move for the Sabres, it might be the BEST deal out there from any team....yet there will be complaint after complaint that the sabres got 'fleeced' when that really isn't the case based on what Cozens true value actually is around the league..

Edited 19 hours ago by mjd1001

[Flashsabre]

4 minutes ago, JP51 said:

I refuse to believe this even though it very well may be true... but if it is... we are beyond screwed and there is literally no hope... 

I don’t think Adams has an individual thought on what to do. I’m convinced he just listens to Pegula and does whatever he is told. He then goes in front of the public and lies through his teeth about there being no financial constraints when every single decision made is to the contrary.

Adams was hired with no front office experience because he would listen to Terry on all his ideas. 
 

I think Adams is gone, he will be sacrificed but the next hire will tell us if there is any chance of things changing.

Only if he hires a seasoned NHL guy will I know he has changed his mentality.

[thewookie1]

5 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't think you are going to get a good return for him. Twitter post I saw today by someone who is pretty reliable with Leafs info said the Leafs have no interest in all in Cozens.

I'd be happy with him just moving on. He can be 'part' of a package. Or get a middle-six guy, I don't care give me anything of value.

What I think will happen is what you are eluding to.....the Sabres might move him for REAL fair value (which won't be all that much, and certainly a LOT less than what some people expect)....and that might be a good move for the Sabres, it might be the BEST deal out there from any team....yet there will be complaint after complaint that the sabres got 'fleeced' when that really isn't the case based on what Cozens true value actually is around the league..

I disagree he isn't worth much; if he weren't worth a lot you wouldn't have so many teams interested in him.

[mjd1001]

4 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I disagree he isn't worth much; if he weren't worth a lot you wouldn't have so many teams interested in him.

We don't know just how many teams are interested in him, and if they are, what is his value to them?

You may have a lot of teams interested in him for a 2nd round pick or a mid level prospect.

What I believe is teams are not falling over themselves to give up a legit NHL play or a top draft pick for someone who's production isn't all that good/reliable and makes costly mistake after costly mental mistake on the ice. Fans may see the scoresheet and want a guy like that...but when front office people watch the game film, I think they are going to say "no thanks" or "we'll take a flyer on him and see if we can coach him up", but for a pretty low return.

[JP51]

3 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

I don’t think Adams has an individual thought on what to do. I’m convinced he just listens to Pegula and does whatever he is told. He then goes in front of the public and lies through his teeth about there being no financial constraints when every single decision made is to the contrary.

Adams was hired with no front office experience because he would listen to Terry on all his ideas. 
 

I think Adams is gone, he will be sacrificed but the next hire will tell us if there is any chance of things changing.

Only if he hires a seasoned NHL guy will I know he has changed his mentality.

This is my hope