GDT: Kracken at your Buffalo Sabres—4pm Eastern—MSG, ESPN+, and WGR 550

[Sidc3000]

6 hours ago, Stoner said:

He doesn't meddle tho.

He’s at many of the Bills games. He’s probably in town for the playoff game. 
 

he’s been shown multiple times in the locker room after a bills win

5 hours ago, ExWNYer said:

Wow, small world for sure. We're in the West End of Richmond. How about you guys?

Fredericksburg. We’ve been in Va for over 25 years now.  

[Stoner]

15 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

He’s at many of the Bills games. He’s probably in town for the playoff game. 
 

he’s been shown multiple times in the locker room after a bills win

Fredericksburg. We’ve been in Va for over 25 years now.  

Does he sit next to Beane?

[JohnC]

The impenetrable owner has succeeded in destroying a franchise and obliterating the fanbase. He should be ashamed of himself. 

When it gets to the point that following this flailing team becomes more of an aggravation than an enjoyable endeavor then it's time to take a sabbatical. This franchise has become a theatre of the absurd. It makes no freaking sense. 

[7+6=13]

10 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Once again you fail to read the room and lack any sign of a sense of humor.  

Why would you think that would start an argument?   Stop looking for trouble.  Loosen up. 

 

 

I get it.  You're emotions get the better if you and then you're embarrassed.  Then you blame others for your lack of control. I'll accept that.  Ive known a lot of people like that.

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, gilbert11 said:

Power needs to become more physical.

It's not gonna happen. That's not who the player is and I hope everyone finally gets that size doesn't equal grit. Hopefully the scouting department can find some guys with both. 

[Pimlach]

12 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

 

Please do not tell me they had that trade with Detroit worked out to ship out Cozens, and then pulled it back because they thought they 'needed' cozens because tage can't take faceoffs!

I didn’t know that rumor until now.  It doesn’t sound right to me.  

[bob_sauve28]

2 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

He’s at many of the Bills games. He’s probably in town for the playoff game. 
 

he’s been shown multiple times in the locker room after a bills win

Fredericksburg. We’ve been in Va for over 25 years now.  

Worst Union defeat of the war! Nice area, though. I visited the battlefield a few years back. I was stationed at Langley AFB down near Norfolk back in the late 80's

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, 7+6=13 said:

I get it.  You're emotions get the better if you and then you're embarrassed.  Then you blame others for your lack of control. I'll accept that.  Ive known a lot of people like that.

No.  You really don’t get it.  But I am sure you really believe your last sentence.  It probably helps you to cope.  

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Worst Union defeat of the war! Nice area, though. I visited the battlefield a few years back. I was stationed at Langley AFB down near Norfolk back in the late 80's

At Gettysburg after Picketts charge (note 2 other brigades took part), the union II chanted Fredericksburg because it was the inverse and had left such a scar on the army. 

[bob_sauve28]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

At Gettysburg after Picketts charge (note 2 other brigades took part), the union II chanted Fredericksburg because it was the inverse and had left such a scar on the army. 

I've stood at the spot in the center of the Union line at Gettysburg. Looked out over that field and just shook my head, how in the world did Johnny Reb think they could knock our boys off that position. Insanity. Then I went to the Little Round Top and just couldn't believe they even tried taking that. From the bottom, it just looks impossible 

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I've stood at the spot in the center of the Union line at Gettysburg. Looked out over that field and just shook my head, how in the world did Johnny Reb think they could knock our boys off that position. Insanity. Then I went to the Little Round Top and just couldn't believe they even tried taking that. From the bottom, it just looks impossible 

I've been to Gettysburg a number of times and listened to a number of presentations. Johnny reb did actually penetrate the line but had nothing in reserve to follow up. As far as Little Round Top, if the Union reserves would not have shown up to buttress the line on the hill, the Rebels would have taken that hill. Gettysburg is both a fascinating to visit and a hallow place to respect. The butchery that both sides were subjected to were incredible. 

General Lee is a revered figure in the south. However, his miscalculations on that Battlefield got a lot of his soldiers unnecessarily killed and maimed. In this case, judicious non-engagement would have been better than reckless aggressiveness. 

[bob_sauve28]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I've been to Gettysburg a number of times and listened to a number of presentations. Johnny reb did actually penetrate the line but had nothing in reserve to follow up. As far as Little Round Top, if the Union reserves would not have shown up to buttress the line on the hill, the Rebels would have taken that hill. Gettysburg is both a fascinating to visit and a hallow place to respect. The butchery that both sides were subjected to were incredible. 

General Lee is a revered figure in the south. However, his miscalculations on that Battlefield got a lot of his soldiers unnecessarily killed and maimed. In this case, judicious non-engagement would have been better than reckless aggressiveness. 

Yup, Lee learned that the North had an army that would fight. Grant would soon learn that Lee had an army with plenty of fight left in it. The Summer of 1864, worst Summer in American history, I can't imagine another summer that would even be a close second. 

[JohnC]

7 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Yup, Lee learned that the North had an army that would fight. Grant would soon learn that Lee had an army with plenty of fight left in it. The Summer of 1864, worst Summer in American history, I can't imagine another summer that would even be a close second. 

Grant was not noted for his strategy. He was a fighter who sought engagement. That was the reason why Lincoln after going through a number of generals belatedly settled on him. He got tired of his generals being too timid. Grant's philosophy was that if I have three soldiers and you have two, I could fight you to a draw and win based on the advantageous numbers. Butchery at a frightening level.

In some respects, what is going on in Ukraine in their war for survival with Russia is similar. Putin is an evil person who is a combination of Stalin and Hitler. For Putin, his mindset is that I got the greater numbers, so casualties mean more to the opposition than to me. Evil personified!

[Huckleberry]

Glad I was at work and not had to watch another meltdown.

[bob_sauve28]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Glad I was at work and not had to watch another meltdown.

Well, make sure you check out “Bryson’s Goal” 

 

Says it all 

[Stoner]

Oh yeah, Dahlin is still dumb. That penalty, oof.

And especially now that he's a captain he needs to end the coup de grace smashing of sticks and firing of pucks into his empty net. We don't need Captain Eeyore and Coach Eeyore.

[ExWNYer]

13 hours ago, Sidc3000 said:

He’s at many of the Bills games. He’s probably in town for the playoff game. 
 

he’s been shown multiple times in the locker room after a bills win

Fredericksburg. We’ve been in Va for over 25 years now.  

I live right off of 295. Fredericksburg is about 45 minutes from my house, straight up 295 & I-95. I drove there a lot when I was in college a million years ago because my girlfriend at the time went to Mary Washington. My wife's sister used to live not too far from Fredericksburg, just south in Ladysmith.

[Crusader1969]

7 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Well, make sure you check out “Bryson’s Goal” 

 

Says it all 

It's amazing to me that they have a guy who literally scored on his own goal in the first minute of the 3rd period in a 2-2 game and another D making a perfect pass to an opposition forward while up 2-0.  But people still feel the need to post " power has to be more physical ".

it would be hilarious if it was so tiring reading the same post over and over.   
 

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

I've stood at the spot in the center of the Union line at Gettysburg. Looked out over that field and just shook my head, how in the world did Johnny Reb think they could knock our boys off that position. Insanity. Then I went to the Little Round Top and just couldn't believe they even tried taking that. From the bottom, it just looks impossible 

Culps hill was impossible to take too but they tried anyways.

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, JohnC said:

Grant was not noted for his strategy. He was a fighter who sought engagement. That was the reason why Lincoln after going through a number of generals belatedly settled on him. He got tired of his generals being too timid. Grant's philosophy was that if I have three soldiers and you have two, I could fight you to a draw and win based on the advantageous numbers. Butchery at a frightening level.

In some respects, what is going on in Ukraine in their war for survival with Russia is similar. Putin is an evil person who is a combination of Stalin and Hitler. For Putin, his mindset is that I got the greater numbers, so casualties mean more to the opposition than to me. Evil personified!

Grant was technically in charge of all the union armies and Meade the army of the Potomac. However in reality, Sherman was in charge of the western theater and Grant the east. 

Grant pressed Lee hard and other than Cold Harbor, didn't make too many dumb frontal assaults. That said by 1864, George Thomas was probably the best army commander.

Either way, had Lee defeated Grant the war would had still been lost. Personally, I think Lee was a mediocre strategist in that he often was lucky because the union was dumb... McClellan or his immediate subordinate... mostly Jackson was brilliant. Lee assaulted the union center because he thought Meade would panic and reinforce the flanks but Meade guessed that. Meade knew he was right after the artillery bombarded them for 2 hours as well. 

Lee attacking an elevated position, where his lines could be enfiladed with cannon fire all while thinking he could push the union second corps and break them never made sense. By summer 1863 both armies were not what they were in 1862. The correct plan would have been to sidestep Meade and not fight him on the 3rd day. However, on July 4th 1863 Vicksburg fell so the Confederacy was doomed anyway. The only winning move would have been a partial destruction of the army of the Potomac and an attack on Washington but, as I've said, Lee was only an ok strategist and he let his victory sickness dictate his actions. Also George Meade was probably the best he faced to that point. 

Anyways, the strategic moves of the Civil War are fascinating. 

[Jorcus]

9 hours ago, JohnC said:

Grant was not noted for his strategy. He was a fighter who sought engagement. That was the reason why Lincoln after going through a number of generals belatedly settled on him. He got tired of his generals being too timid. Grant's philosophy was that if I have three soldiers and you have two, I could fight you to a draw and win based on the advantageous numbers. Butchery at a frightening level.

In some respects, what is going on in Ukraine in their war for survival with Russia is similar. Putin is an evil person who is a combination of Stalin and Hitler. For Putin, his mindset is that I got the greater numbers, so casualties mean more to the opposition than to me. Evil personified!

 

I just finished reading the Personal Memoirs of U.S. Grant. There was a method to the madness as well as political pressures to get something done or just give in and let the country be cut in 2 It was very close to that point. In some sense it was a war of attrition as well as a war of perception. According to the Grant the Southern press kept feeding the idea that they were winning everything until Sherman was turned lose and brought the war to Atlanta and the sea. It was at that point the the Southern population could not ignore reality.     

[Jorcus]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Grant was technically in charge of all the union armies and Meade the army of the Potomac. However in reality, Sherman was in charge of the western theater and Grant the east. 

Grant pressed Lee hard and other than Cold Harbor, didn't make too many dumb frontal assaults. That said by 1864, George Thomas was probably the best army commander.

Either way, had Lee defeated Grant the war would had still been lost. Personally, I think Lee was a mediocre strategist in that he often was lucky because the union was dumb... McClellan or his immediate subordinate... mostly Jackson was brilliant. Lee assaulted the union center because he thought Meade would panic and reinforce the flanks but Meade guessed that. Meade knew he was right after the artillery bombarded them for 2 hours as well. 

Lee attacking an elevated position, where his lines could be enfiladed with cannon fire all while thinking he could push the union second corps and break them never made sense. By summer 1863 both armies were not what they were in 1862. The correct plan would have been to sidestep Meade and not fight him on the 3rd day. However, on July 4th 1863 Vicksburg fell so the Confederacy was doomed anyway. The only winning move would have been a partial destruction of the army of the Potomac and an attack on Washington but, as I've said, Lee was only an ok strategist and he let his victory sickness dictate his actions. Also George Meade was probably the best he faced to that point. 

Anyways, the strategic moves of the Civil War are fascinating. 

 

 

Grants promotion was after the victory of Vicksburg so the West was left to Sherman at a later point. Much of Grants reputation as a butcher seemed to come from the battle of Shiloh. His political opponents in the west would use that against him.  

[bob_sauve28]

9 hours ago, Jorcus said:

 

 

Grants promotion was after the victory of Vicksburg so the West was left to Sherman at a later point. Much of Grants reputation as a butcher seemed to come from the battle of Shiloh. His political opponents in the west would use that against him.  

He was again accused of being a drunk at Shilo, and getting attacked by surprise.

He got the reputation as a butcher in that summer of '64 trying to finish off the job. The Wilderness, Spotsylvania, Cold Harbor, The Battle of the Creator and finally to the siege around Petersburg and Richmond, where the killing went on whole sale for awhile. Great just kept trying to stick that pointed stick in Lee's eye and Lee fought back with all he had, but men just fell like the leaves. Grant just would not let Lee up, using probing attacks and feints he made sure Lee had all his lines manned, and then try stretching him out more, but all this cost lives. It did work in the end, though

[bob_sauve28]

10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 

Grant pressed Lee hard and other than Cold Harbor, didn't make too many dumb frontal assaults. That said by 1864, George Thomas was probably the best army commander.

 

My mother moved to Tennessee so I got to visit many battlefields out there. Franklin was a pretty wild battlefield, probably the coolest I've seen. Thomas, the "Rock of Chickamauga" was the Union commander there. Not a huge battlefield at all, but it had something like the highest casualty rate of a major battle for numbers involved, or something. The battle took place basically on this family's farm. House is still there and all, holes in buildings and all.

We went down in the basement of the house where the family hid during the battle and all crouched down like we were hiding pretending thousands of guns are going off over our heads and then the guy leading us got us all upset by saying that during the battle  the families little girl was missing! We were a little to into the moment and got all worried over this little girl from 160 years before and he said she was found safe and sound later. She had ran to get her little doll.

[JohnC]

11 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Grant was technically in charge of all the union armies and Meade the army of the Potomac. However in reality, Sherman was in charge of the western theater and Grant the east. 

Grant pressed Lee hard and other than Cold Harbor, didn't make too many dumb frontal assaults. That said by 1864, George Thomas was probably the best army commander.

Either way, had Lee defeated Grant the war would had still been lost. Personally, I think Lee was a mediocre strategist in that he often was lucky because the union was dumb... McClellan or his immediate subordinate... mostly Jackson was brilliant. Lee assaulted the union center because he thought Meade would panic and reinforce the flanks but Meade guessed that. Meade knew he was right after the artillery bombarded them for 2 hours as well. 

Lee attacking an elevated position, where his lines could be enfiladed with cannon fire all while thinking he could push the union second corps and break them never made sense. By summer 1863 both armies were not what they were in 1862. The correct plan would have been to sidestep Meade and not fight him on the 3rd day. However, on July 4th 1863 Vicksburg fell so the Confederacy was doomed anyway. The only winning move would have been a partial destruction of the army of the Potomac and an attack on Washington but, as I've said, Lee was only an ok strategist and he let his victory sickness dictate his actions. Also George Meade was probably the best he faced to that point. 

Anyways, the strategic moves of the Civil War are fascinating. 

Excellent analysis and summarization. As you well know, the military historians have feasted on the issues that you noted about the abilities of the generals and battlefield strategies. As you point out, there was no question that Lee was recklessly bold in his attempt to get a win, as much for political purposes as for military reasons. He was determined to get a knockout blow in the north with the hope that it would have a demoralizing political effect. Looking back, the union flanks held, although close to being breached, and pummeled Lee's major force in the middle. As I stated before, although being battered, the rebs did have a breakthrough at the triangle (middle) but didn't have enough manpower to follow through.  

As brutal the Gettysburg Battle was, Antietam was even more brutal proportionally per day and location. McClellan was the union general. Many historians believe that if he would have been more aggressive sooner, he could have dealt a decisive blow to Lee and his forces. Allowing Lee to escape over the Potomac River in the night allowed the Confederates to head back south and regroup. Maybe??? if McClellan could have destroyed Lee's army to a greater extent, Gettysburg would not have happened. 

There is any interesting parallel regarding the military and hockey franchises. It relates to getting the right people in place to lead. If you get that wrong, you fail. The Sabres are a classic example of that.