GDT: Kracken at your Buffalo Sabres—4pm Eastern—MSG, ESPN+, and WGR 550

[EM88]

8 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Game winning goals: Tuch 17 (in 40 less games than Cozens), Thompson 15, Cozens 4

Powerplay goals: Thompson 43, Tuch 12 (in 40 less games than Cozens), Cozens 10

Cozens is the single worst forward I have every seen without the puck, and he scores a powerplay goal 1 out of every 28 games, and he scores a game winner 1 out of ever 70 games. 

In addition to Cozens defensive gaffs, might be the most un-clutch top 6 forward in the league based on the bolded above.

Edited Sunday at 01:13 AM by EM88

[sabremike]

 

[Pimlach]

13 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Part of me thinks Dahlin’s temper this year is going nuts because he is the captain now and his ship more or less goes askew at the slightest bump. If I passionately tried to rally my teammates in the locker room and then they go and do whatever the hell that 2nd and 3rd were I too would completely lose it eventually. 
 

Frankly he’s also probably a bit torn simultaneously since he’s great friends with most of, if not, the entire team and any action he might take in requesting assistance would cost players he’s played with for almost 6 years to be moved. 

Dahlin knows he is not the reason they don’t win.  All the players know their teams flaws.  

Every teams has players that are close friends.   If he is worried about any of what you suggest then he should give the C back.  Winning should be the priority.  

 

[Slack_in_MA]

1 hour ago, EM88 said:

I do realize the NHL is a much more complicated league than much lower levels of hockey. 

Can someone explain this to me like I’m 12 years old? I’m not saying it’s not, but other than speed, strength and veteran savvy/experience, how is the game fundamentally different? How many rookies come into the league saying “Wow, I’ve never seen a scheme like that.”

Again, I’m not an Xs and Os guy at all. Really looking for an explanation.

[Pimlach]

Thomspson - Cozens - Zucker were all -4, each.  

Ruff said Thompson is hurt and can’t take faceoffs.  I also think Ruff doesn’t think Tage can play the defensive structure that he wants from his centers.  He has alluded to it.  Same with Cozens   

It’s probably fair to say Cuzzy needs to move down.  The needs 3rd line matchups.  He was exposed by the Kracken, not a great thing.   

That leaves McLeod and Krebsie.  

Kulich hurt.  We drafted Rosen, Savoie, Östlund, Kulich and Helenius yet we don’t have any centers.  We really don’t. 

[mjd1001]

6 minutes ago, Slack_in_MA said:

Can someone explain this to me like I’m 12 years old? I’m not saying it’s not, but other than speed, strength and veteran savvy/experience, how is the game fundamentally different? How many rookies come into the league saying “Wow, I’ve never seen a scheme like that.”

Again, I’m not an Xs and Os guy at all. Really looking for an explanation.

I don't know for sure, but I just 'assume' it is.  The trap, we heard of the 'left wing lock', plays that are set up off of faceoffs where a guy may be assigned to 'pick' an opposing player. Maybe having one winger forcheck deep into the zone and depending on what side the opposing team exits the zone with the puck, the remaining forwards 'rotating' to cover for the winger who is in deep. When Short handed, do you strictly maintain the PK 'box', or does one guy pressure the puck carrier...and if so is that based on pre-scouting that tells you what players on the other team are more suceptible to pressure and which ones are not...and then if you DO push a guy with the puck how do the remaining players 'rotate' to fill zones?  Even when, how often, and where to go during and after line changes?

I don't know, I am guessing and would HOPE that some advanced scouting goes into playing other oppoents, and that player are told to not play 'pond hockey' and just chase the puck but to play zones on the ice depending on what their linemates are doing.

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Thomspson - Cozens - Zucker were all -4, each.  

Ruff said Thompson is hurt and can’t take faceoffs.  I also think Ruff doesn’t think Tage can play the defensive structure that he wants from his centers.  He has alluded to it.  Same with Cozens   

It’s probably fair to say Cuzzy needs to move down.  The needs 3rd line matchups.  He was exposed by the Kracken, not a great thing.   

That leaves McLeod and Krebsie.  

Kulich hurt.  We drafted Rosen, Savoie, Östlund, Kulich and Helenius yet we don’t have any centers.  We really don’t. 

Please do not tell me they had that trade with Detroit worked out to ship out Cozens, and then pulled it back because they thought they 'needed' cozens because tage can't take faceoffs!

[EM88]

4 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Please do not tell me they had that trade with Detroit worked out to ship out Cozens, and then pulled it back because they thought they 'needed' cozens because tage can't take faceoffs!

I think that is exactly the rumor of what happened. They had a deal worked out with Detroit to send Cozens out but they decided not to because Tage is playing injured.

I have heard that from a few different places. Friedman mentioned it and one of the hockey shows on 590 brought it up also.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/nhl/rumor-nhl-trade-rumor-elliotte-friedman-links-detroit-red-wings-49-700-000-sabres-center

Quite a bit of talk from Elliot Friedman in that article that is filled with maybes, possibilities, I heard from someone, stuff like that. But in that article, it mentions the possibility of the Sabres not doing a deal because Tage is injured and temporarily unable to take a faceoff.

Edited Sunday at 02:07 AM by EM88

[Slack_in_MA]

9 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't know for sure, but I just 'assume' it is.  The trap, we heard of the 'left wing lock', plays that are set up off of faceoffs where a guy may be assigned to 'pick' an opposing player. Maybe having one winger forcheck deep into the zone and depending on what side the opposing team exits the zone with the puck, the remaining forwards 'rotating' to cover for the winger who is in deep. When Short handed, do you strictly maintain the PK 'box', or does one guy pressure the puck carrier...and if so is that based on pre-scouting that tells you what players on the other team are more suceptible to pressure and which ones are not...and then if you DO push a guy with the puck how do the remaining players 'rotate' to fill zones?  Even when, how often, and where to go during and after line changes?

I don't know, I am guessing and would HOPE that some advanced scouting goes into playing other oppoents, and that player are told to not play 'pond hockey' and just chase the puck but to play zones on the ice depending on what their linemates are doing.

Thanks. As a caveat, I look at some of the geniuses that play collegiate football and all the nuance of strategy and positioning that’s required, and wonder what I’m missing.

Maybe that players have to play both offense and defense in hockey is different. But again, they’ve been dealing with that concept since they been five years old.

Edited Sunday at 02:11 AM by Slack_in_MA

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, Slack_in_MA said:

Thanks. As a caveat, I look at some of the geniuses that play collegiate football and all the nuance of strategy and positioning that’s required, and wonder what I’m missing.

All of that is my main problem with Cozens.  Again, I don't know just how complex of a 'system' the Sabres play. But I'll watch, and I see players looking around. I might see Tuch go in deep to forcheck and Tage then drops back to the blue line to cover any exit.  One D-man will go into the corner to chase a puck, so the opposing one will 'shade' more to the center to cover anyone else coming into the zone.  When I see things like that, its kinda basic stuff, but it makes me think these guys practice positioniong.

Then I watch Cozens....BLAAAHHHHH...blows all of that stuff up. Will chase the puck no matter where it goes, leaves coverage on a guy making him wide open to try to chase a loose puck 20 feet away. Takes shots on goalies where the goalie sees it coming and is set and waiting while his winger is wide open.  Cozens is the definition of pond hockey and it has to be infuriating to be one of his linemates IF you are doing the right thing and have to keep covering for him.

[Slack_in_MA]

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

All of that is my main problem with Cozens.  Again, I don't know just how complex of a 'system' the Sabres play. But I'll watch, and I see players looking around. I might see Tuch go in deep to forcheck and Tage then drops back to the blue line to cover any exit.  One D-man will go into the corner to chase a puck, so the opposing one will 'shade' more to the center to cover anyone else coming into the zone.  When I see things like that, its kinda basic stuff, but it makes me think these guys practice positioniong.

Then I watch Cozens....BLAAAHHHHH...blows all of that stuff up. Will chase the puck no matter where it goes, leaves coverage on a guy making him wide open to try to chase a loose puck 20 feet away. Takes shots on goalies where the goalie sees it coming and is set and waiting while his winger is wide open.  Cozens is the definition of pond hockey and it has to be infuriating to be one of his linemates IF you are doing the right thing and have to keep covering for him.

Do you think he’s a bad hockey player or a guy who’s trying to play himself into a trade?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Well folks who don’t want to trade anyone, how is that status quo working out for you?  
 

How about Power, Byram, and Dahlin?  They really made a difference tonight.  We should hold on to all 3 at all costs.  (Please read with dripping sarcasm).  
 

 

[mjd1001]

8 minutes ago, Slack_in_MA said:

Do you think he’s a bad hockey player or a guy who’s trying to play himself into a trade?

I think he's bad.  He has done this for the last few years.  I know for the last 2.5 seasons I have watched replays of most goals the Sabres have allowed, and when a glaring mistake is made by a forward (leaving a guy wide open), its probably Cozens almost as much as the rest of the team combined.  I have posted videos and screenshots in many GD threads.

Its almost like he was the best 13 year old kid on his team and was allowed to freelance and just do whatever he wanted...and his game without the puck never evolved from that. 

Here is one good example (just one, there are many): https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/buf-vs-pit/2024/09/21/2024010001

Watch the replay on that page of Pittsburgh's first goal, its on the PP.  The other 3 players on the ice are staying in their position. Cozens is ALL over the ice. He chases the puck wherever it goes, eventually Pitt takes advantage of it and scores because of it. At one Point Cozens is WAY on the other side of the ice deep into the Zone, Quinn has to adjust and then things to to h**l.

Again, just look at how the rest of the team plays the PK and Watch Cozens, he skates around like a 8 year old who was never taught any positional play. Remember, Cozens spot is up high on the NEAR side of the ice. He chases the puck from his high-near zone, across right in front of Quinn, goes over to Quinns side on the boards, goes down low to the low corner opposite is side....all the while where he is supposed to be is WIDE open.

That is a preseason game and its just one PK example, but stuff like this happens with him on goals allowed usually a few times each week.

Edited Sunday at 02:28 AM by mjd1001

[Slack_in_MA]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

I think he's bad.  He has done this for the last few years.  I know for the last 2.5 seasons I have watched replays of most goals the Sabres have allowed, and when a glaring mistake is made by a forward (leaving a guy wide open), its probably Cozens almost as much as the rest of the team combined.  I have posted videos and screenshots in many GD threads.

Its almost like he was the best 13 year old kid on his team and was allowed to freelance and just do whatever he wanted...and his game without the puck never evolved from that. 

Here is one good example (just one, there are many): https://www.nhl.com/gamecenter/buf-vs-pit/2024/09/21/2024010001

Watch the replay on that page of Pittsburgh's first goal, its on the PP.  The other 3 players on the ice are staying in their position. Cozens is ALL over the ice. He chases the puck wherever it goes, eventually Pitt takes advantage of it and scores because of it. At one Point Cozens is WAY on the other side of the ice deep into the Zone, Quinn has to adjust and then things to to h**l.

Again, just look at how the rest of the team plays the PK and Watch Cozens, he skates around like a 8 year old who was never taught any positional play.

That is a preseason game and its just one PK example, but stuff like this happens with him on goals allowed usually a few times each week.

What is your take on how/why he’s centering the top line lately?

[GASabresIUFAN]

36 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Thomspson - Cozens - Zucker were all -4, each.  

Ruff said Thompson is hurt and can’t take faceoffs.  I also think Ruff doesn’t think Tage can play the defensive structure that he wants from his centers.  He has alluded to it.  Same with Cozens   

It’s probably fair to say Cuzzy needs to move down.  The needs 3rd line matchups.  He was exposed by the Kracken, not a great thing.   

That leaves McLeod and Krebsie.  

Kulich hurt.  We drafted Rosen, Savoie, Östlund, Kulich and Helenius yet we don’t have any centers.  We really don’t. 

Nope.  Good thing we traded Mitts for a redundant offensive LHD.  

[SABRES 0311]

Fell asleep at the end of the second. Woke up an hour later. Actually impressive at this point how they fail to secure games. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

The really sad thing is that they played so hard and so well in the 1st period.  They were playing the right way and getting results.  Why did they stop?

[thewookie1]

27 minutes ago, EM88 said:

I think that is exactly the rumor of what happened. They had a deal worked out with Detroit to send Cozens out but they decided not to because Tage is playing injured.

I have heard that from a few different places. Friedman mentioned it and one of the hockey shows on 590 brought it up also.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/nhl/rumor-nhl-trade-rumor-elliotte-friedman-links-detroit-red-wings-49-700-000-sabres-center

Quite a bit of talk from Elliot Friedman in that article that is filled with maybes, possibilities, I heard from someone, stuff like that. But in that article, it mentions the possibility of the Sabres not doing a deal because Tage is injured and temporarily unable to take a faceoff.

No thank you; I literally have zero interest in anyone on Detroit

[mjd1001]

13 minutes ago, Slack_in_MA said:

What is your take on how/why he’s centering the top line lately?

I feel like I'm bashing Cozens, but after about 2 weeks of somewhat better play by Cozens, he is back to being bad.  On the first goal allowed tonight, Gilbert had a giveway. But Cozens was out of position again. He chased the puck into the zone where Gilbert was already there, he had no chance of getting control of the puck, but Cozens left the entire slot wide open, the puck eventually went right through the zone he was vacated. He caused Zucker to rotate down low to cover the slot which is why the whole near side was open.  If Cozens didn't go after a puck he had no business getting,  Zucker doesn't have to leave the near side wide open to cover the slot where cozens was supposed to be, and the goal isn't scored, even with Gilbert's giveaway.

As far as stats, Quinn was taken off of Cozens line the last few days. The have only spent a few seconds on the ice together. Since getting away from Cozens, Quinn has 3 goals in 2 games and has made ZERO glaring defensive errors.  At the same time Tage and Zucker were put on a line with Cozens and the proceded to both be a -4 on the night, I think  their worst of the season. (they were both plus players on the year before having Cozens on their line)

Krebs is an opposite example. Not that you follow my posts, but last year I posted Cozens and Krebs were the worst 2 forwards I have ever seen without the puck. Krebs made almost as many of those plays as Cozens (Cozens was still worse but Krebs was close).  I didn't want Krebs re-signed, I was hopine they would let him walk, but if the did bring him back it would be on a one year minimum deal. I disliked Krebs game almost as much as Cozens.  But something happened in the offseason. Krebs got better. He must have studied film, committed to playing positionally better. He has cut his mistakes away from the puck drastically. Krebs did it, Cozens is almost 24 years old and in his 5th season, if he hasn't done it by now, I don't think its in him.

As much as I disliked Krebs last year and I do not think he is close to being a 2nd line center, I think the team is better with Krebs on the 2nd line than with Cozens. I think you lose 4-6 goals per year scored by Krebs in that position instead of Cozens, but I think you might get the wingers make up for that with a better playmaker, and you save quite a few goals allowed with better positional play.

Edited Sunday at 02:43 AM by mjd1001

[7+6=13]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

So Adam’s should call other GMs asking for players that lose leads less often? 
 

I know you're trying your best to start arguments, but instead you're making a fool of yourself.  

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, inkman said:

They need to weed out the guys that are wilting under pressure.   Cozens?  For sure.  Tuch, most likely.  Tage?  Maybe. Dahlin?  👀 Power?  Easily.  I find it hard to find a player that has ice in his veins.  Instead we have a bunch of poopey pants children that barf all over themselves when anything at all is expected of them.  Get rid of the smelly diapers.  They are killing this team.

Who passed the puck into the slot for the opposition? Who literally puck the puck into his own  net in the 3rd period to give the Krakken a 3-2 lead? Why don't we start there for guys to get rid of 

[Slack_in_MA]

14 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I feel like I'm bashing Cozens, but after about 2 weeks of somewhat better play by Cozens, he is back to being bad.  On the first goal allowed tonight, Gilbert had a giveway. But Cozens was out of position again. He chased the puck into the zone where Gilbert was already there, he had no chance of getting control of the puck, but Cozens left the entire slot wide open, the puck eventually went right through the zone he was vacated. He caused Zucker to rotate down low to cover the slot which is why the whole near side was open.  If Cozens didn't go after a puck he had no business getting,  Zucker doesn't have to leave the near side wide open to cover the slot where cozens was supposed to be, and the goal isn't scored, even with Gilbert's giveaway.

As far as stats, Quinn was taken off of Cozens line the last few days. The have only spent a few seconds on the ice together. Since getting away from Cozens, Quinn has 3 goals in 2 games and has made ZERO glaring defensive errors.  At the same time Tage and Zucker were put on a line with Cozens and the proceded to both be a -4 on the night, I think  their worst of the season. (they were both plus players on the year before having Cozens on their line)

Krebs is an opposite example. Not that you follow my posts, but last year I posted Cozens and Krebs were the worst 2 forwards I have ever seen without the puck. Krebs made almost as many of those plays as Cozens (Cozens was still worse but Krebs was close).  I didn't want Krebs re-signed, I was hopine they would let him walk, but if the did bring him back it would be on a one year minimum deal. I disliked Krebs game almost as much as Cozens.  But something happened in the offseason. Krebs got better. He must have studied film, committed to playing positionally better. He has cut his mistakes away from the puck drastically. Krebs did it, Cozens is almost 24 years old and in his 5th season, if he hasn't done it by now, I don't think its in him.

As much as I disliked Krebs last year and I do not think he is close to being a 2nd line center, I think the team is better with Krebs on the 2nd line than with Cozens. I think you lose 4-6 goals per year scored by Krebs in that position instead of Cozens, but I think you might get the wingers make up for that with a better playmaker, and you save quite a few goals allowed with better positional play.

So, in fifteen words or less, what’s your take on why he’s centering the top line given how bad he is?

[Crusader1969]

24 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Well folks who don’t want to trade anyone, how is that status quo working out for you?  
 

How about Power, Byram, and Dahlin?  They really made a difference tonight.  We should hold on to all 3 at all costs.  (Please read with dripping sarcasm).  
 

 

So you are saying you want even more of Bryson, Jokiharju and Gilbert? 

[mjd1001]

Just now, Slack_in_MA said:

So, in fifteen words or less, what’s your take on why he’s centering the top line given how bad he is?

I can't do 15 words but I can keep some theories short:

-Any coach seeing his 'raw skill' and thinking they are the one to get something out of him?

-I don't beleive much in 'showcasing' players, but with other teams scouts at Sabres games, get him on the ice in front of them?

-If Tage is hurt, what are your other options?

-Pegula likes him. He's Pegula's favorite. Hes not coming out of the lineup or getting moved down the lineup per Terry.

Just now, Crusader1969 said:

So you are saying you want even more of Bryson, Jokiharju and Gilbert? 

Not at 20 minutes of ice time, but Bryson I think is slightly better than many think (hes a good 3rd pair guy) and Clifton I like more and more (he's a very good 3rd pair guy and I wouldn't be upset with him getting 1-2 more minutes than he is getting now)

But yeah, I get your point, If you move one of the big three, you need someone/something else to fill in those 2nd pair minutes you are leaving open.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Who passed the puck into the slot for the opposition? Who literally puck the puck into his own  net in the 3rd period to give the Krakken a 3-2 lead? Why don't we start there for guys to get rid of 

Cuz no one will give us anything for Bryson. 

5 minutes ago, Slack_in_MA said:

So, in fifteen words or less, what’s your take on why he’s centering the top line given how bad he is?

Terry and Kevyn like him

 

Did it in 5.

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

But yeah, I get your point, If you move one of the big three, you need someone/something else to fill in those 2nd pair minutes you are leaving open.

What is,  Nikita Novikov 

[gilbert11]

29 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Well folks who don’t want to trade anyone, how is that status quo working out for you?  
 

How about Power, Byram, and Dahlin?  They really made a difference tonight.  We should hold on to all 3 at all costs.  (Please read with dripping sarcasm).  
 

 

Power is a Powder Puff.  6-6, 220 and he has 15 hits in 42 games?   What a wuss!  Maybe another team would trade for him based on his #1 pick history and youth.