ESPN Article on the Sabres

[PromoTheRobot]

21 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

Which prospect does he feel this way about?  Savoie?

Hey, stop injecting facts into a good rant.

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I am in no way wishing anything away. You are avoiding my challenge by throwing platitudes at me. "The record is the record." Bill Parcells might have said that but it's totally meaningless beyond being a record. It came about from hundreds if not thousands of smaller factors. You are more interested in assigning blame than pinpointing a cause. You want the owner to own this but you can't point to anything he's done to bring this about beyond hiring the wrong people. 

And that would be enough. After all he's responsible for his hires. But people here also accuse him of meddling in team affairs. And I have yet to see anyone point to an instance of that happening. We certainly try to weave evidence. "$7 million of unspent cap is surely proof!!" But it really isn't.

I 100% agree.  I know this sucks but making stuff up, doesn't make anyone right.  I'll say something positive about a loss and this place goes crazy.

Then someone will say Pegula should sell the team, even if they leave Buffalo.  They'll get 20 thumbs up.  Ok, that's not crazy, saying UPL played well is.

I loved your line "we certainly try to weave evidence".  Masterfully said.  

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I am in no way wishing anything away. You are avoiding my challenge by throwing platitudes at me. "The record is the record." Bill Parcells might have said that but it's totally meaningless beyond being a record. It came about from hundreds if not thousands of smaller factors. You are more interested in assigning blame than pinpointing a cause. You want the owner to own this but you can't point to anything he's done to bring this about beyond hiring the wrong people. 

And that would be enough. After all he's responsible for his hires. But people here also accuse him of meddling in team affairs. And I have yet to see anyone point to an instance of that happening. We certainly try to weave evidence. "$7 million of unspent cap is surely proof!!" But it really isn't.

ffs dude they've said many times he is IN THE MEETINGS. You think he just likes the comfy chairs?  Your position is beyond absurd. 

[Sidc3000]

On 1/7/2025 at 6:50 PM, Pimlach said:

She must be reading the forum.  She nails it.  Both the players and ownership/management have to elevate their game.  

Or it’s just common sense anyone who follows hockey would know. 🤷‍♂️

[Stoner]

9 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I am in no way wishing anything away. You are avoiding my challenge by throwing platitudes at me. "The record is the record." Bill Parcells might have said that but it's totally meaningless beyond being a record. It came about from hundreds if not thousands of smaller factors. You are more interested in assigning blame than pinpointing a cause. You want the owner to own this but you can't point to anything he's done to bring this about beyond hiring the wrong people. 

And that would be enough. After all he's responsible for his hires. But people here also accuse him of meddling in team affairs. And I have yet to see anyone point to an instance of that happening. We certainly try to weave evidence. "$7 million of unspent cap is surely proof!!" But it really isn't.

 

7 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

I 100% agree.  I know this sucks but making stuff up, doesn't make anyone right.  I'll say something positive about a loss and this place goes crazy.

Then someone will say Pegula should sell the team, even if they leave Buffalo.  They'll get 20 thumbs up.  Ok, that's not crazy, saying UPL played well is.

I loved your line "we certainly try to weave evidence".  Masterfully said.  

This is the world we live in.

The earth isn't flat? Prove it!

Terry isn't the root of all evil? Prove it.

Spoiler alert: he engineered the tank. At least according to Darcy. The extent of the rebuild would never have gone that far had the GM been in charge of it.

EEE is Terry's plan. Do you think the various decisions made under that banner haven't hurt the team's competitiveness? Do you think a GM would ever choose to run a team this way?

But keep lickin' them boots. Someday your yacht will come.

You always wonder how citizens support despots out to destroy a country. Ours has destroyed our beloved team, and he has his fans. His gaslighters.

Astounding.

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I am in no way wishing anything away. You are avoiding my challenge by throwing platitudes at me. "The record is the record." Bill Parcells might have said that but it's totally meaningless beyond being a record. It came about from hundreds if not thousands of smaller factors. You are more interested in assigning blame than pinpointing a cause. You want the owner to own this but you can't point to anything he's done to bring this about beyond hiring the wrong people. 

And that would be enough. After all he's responsible for his hires. But people here also accuse him of meddling in team affairs. And I have yet to see anyone point to an instance of that happening. We certainly try to weave evidence. "$7 million of unspent cap is surely proof!!" But it really isn't.

PTR, are you freaking kidding me! The Sabres have not made the playoffs in 13 years and still counting. After five years with KA as the GM they reside at the bottom of the standing. You made the comment that I'm more interested in assigning blame than pinpointing a cause. Dam right I am! You act as if it is a challenge to find the culprits who are responsible for this extended fiasco. It's not! The owner and sycophantic GM are at the helm of the hockey operation. Who the heck else are you going to blame? And to answer your basic question of what the cause is, it is simple: general ineptitude. What's the proof? The embarrassing record that extends for the past generation. It's not too difficult to see if you have your eyes open.

[sabremike]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

PTR, are you freaking kidding me! The Sabres have not made the playoffs in 13 years and still counting. After five years with KA as the GM they reside at the bottom of the standing. You made the comment that I'm more interested in assigning blame than pinpointing a cause. Dam right I am! You act as if it is a challenge to find the culprits who are responsible for this extended fiasco. It's not! The owner and sycophantic GM are at the helm of the hockey operation. Who the heck else are you going to blame? And to answer your basic question of what the cause is, it is simple: general ineptitude. What's the proof? The embarrassing record that extends for the past generation. It's not too difficult to see if you have your eyes open.

Terry literally hired a man with no qualifications whatsoever to be our GM entirely because he was a loyal sycophant. If people can't recognize that he IS the problem by this point then I don't know what else to say.

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, Stoner said:

 

This is the world we live in.

The earth isn't flat? Prove it!

Terry isn't the root of all evil? Prove it.

Spoiler alert: he engineered the tank. At least according to Darcy. The extent of the rebuild would never have gone that far had the GM been in charge of it.

EEE is Terry's plan. Do you think the various decisions made under that banner haven't hurt the team's competitiveness? Do you think a GM would ever choose to run a team this way?

But keep lickin' them boots. Someday your yacht will come.

You always wonder how citizens support despots out to destroy a country. Ours has destroyed our beloved team, and he has his fans. His gaslighters.

Astounding.

I always think of who Pegula replaced Regier with. 

In the earliest days of Regier’s tenure, he moved on from two very popular Sabre figures. The first was Ted Nolan, an immensely popular coach with (most of) the players and the fanbase, who had just won coach of the year.  New to the GM role and having no history with Nolan, Regier offered a one year extension. Nolan felt betrayed and left. Ruff was brought in. I think this turned out well for the franchise, but Regier was seen as the villain by some. 

A few months later, Regier traded legend and fan favourite Pat Lafontaine. Lafontaine had health issues. Whether the Sabre organization and Regier were worried about the bottom-line or Lafontaine’s health is a reasonable debate I suppose, but in the end Lafontaine wanted to keep playing and the Sabres didn’t want the risk and so he was dealt to the Rangers. Lafontaine would not play beyond that season. Again, Regier was the villain to some. That cold-hearted image stuck with Regier, to some degree, through his tenure as Sabre GM.

Fast forward to Regier’s firing. Who does the newish owner and long-time Sabre fan who got weepy when meeting his Sabre heroes, replace Regier with?  Pat Lafontaine. And who did Lafontaine bring in to coach? Ted Nolan. It wasn’t enough for Pegula to just replace Regier, he had to symbolically poke him in the eye. If Pegula realized this, and I think he clearly did, then consider that his priority in hiring a replacement was not the most qualified person but rather a past-Sabre-hero who also symbolically represented the opposite of Regier. If Pegula was oblivious to all of this, then it draws into question his real-world social intellect. 

When Pegula hired Adams, I thought the best we could hope for was a happy accident. Through late 22-23, it looked like we might have gotten lucky. Today, it is clear that we have not.

Edited January 9 by Archie Lee

[JohnC]

20 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Terry literally hired a man with no qualifications whatsoever to be our GM entirely because he was a loyal sycophant. If people can't recognize that he IS the problem by this point then I don't know what else to say.

Some people don't want to believe what they don't want to believe. What's starkly obvious to most is elusive to others. 

[JohnC]

17 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

We're definitely a hard luck organization. But saying "Micky Mouse" over and over isn't proof.  I mean at least with the NY Jets there are news reports of owner Woody Johnson making personnel decisions based on Madden scores.

What's hard luck to you is systemic incompetence to me. You have created this fiction that the Sabres have to deal with obstacles that other franchises don't have to deal with. That's not true. This dismal organization created its own obstacles through its own efforts. You don't need to point to the Jets as an example of an owner bringing down his franchise because we have an owner in our own house, Pegula, who has done the same thing. 

[PromoTheRobot]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

ffs dude they've said many times he is IN THE MEETINGS. You think he just likes the comfy chairs?  Your position is beyond absurd. 

In the meetings listening or telling people what to do? Which one? Don't guess.

 

Edited January 9 by PromoTheRobot

[JohnC]

25 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I always think of who Pegula replaced Regier with. 

In the earliest days of Regier’s tenure, he moved on from two very popular Sabre figures. The first was Ted Nolan, an immensely popular coach with (most of) the players and the fanbase, who had just won coach of the year.  New to the GM role and having no history with Nolan, Regier offered a one year extension. Nolan felt betrayed and left. Ruff was brought in. I think this turned out well for the franchise, but Regier was seen as the villain by some. 

A few months later, Regier traded legend and fan favourite Pat Lafontaine. Lafontaine had health issues. Whether the Sabre organization and Regier were worried about the bottom-line or Lafontaine’s health is a reasonable debate I suppose, but in the end Lafontaine wanted to keep playing and the Sabres didn’t want the risk and so he was dealt to the Rangers. Lafontaine would not play beyond that season. Again, Regier was the villain to some. That cold-hearted image stuck with Regier, to some degree, through his tenure as Sabre GM.

Fast forward to Regier’s firing. Who does the newish owner and long-time Sabre fan who got weepy when meeting his Sabre heroes, replace Regier with?  Pat Lafontaine. And who did Lafontaine bring in to coach? Ted Nolan. It wasn’t enough for Pegula to just replace Regier, he had to symbolically poke him in the eye. If Pegula realized this, and I think he clearly did, then consider that his priority in hiring a replacement was not the most qualified person but rather a past-Sabre-hero who also symbolically represented the opposite of Regier. If Pegula was oblivious to all of this, then it draws into question his real-world social intellect. 

When Pegula hired Adams, I thought the best we could hope for was a happy accident. Through late 22-23, it looked like we might have gotten lucky. Today, it is clear that we have not.

There is a tendency to overanalyze an issue as to why someone did something. For me, this is a simple issue. The owner hired an unqualified (by any measure) person to be his GM because he was willing to accede to whatever the owner wanted to do with his toy franchise. KA got the attention of the owner by agreeing with whatever the owner proposed. The problem with this owner is that he lacks the self-awareness to recognize what he doesn't know. He acts as if he is the most enlightened person in the room when it's obvious that he is not. When your owner is stubborn and self-absorbed, then it is very difficult to change course when it's evident to all that the road being taken is going to get you lost. It's a ridiculous situation to deal with. Everyone can see what's going on but the boss. 

[PromoTheRobot]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What's hard luck to you is systemic incompetence to me. You have created this fiction that the Sabres have to deal with obstacles that other franchises don't have to deal with. That's not true. This dismal organization created its own obstacles through its own efforts. You don't need to point to the Jets as an example of an owner bringing down his franchise because we have an owner in our own house, Pegula, who has done the same thing. 

You are the GM of a team that most people won't join. What do you do? What are your options? Build a team mostly through the draft? That takes a long time but it's probably your only real option. That is what you are seeing here. Sorry it's not going faster but Connor McDavid isn't coming through that door.

[JohnC]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

You are the GM of a team that most people won't join. What do you do? What are your options? Build a team mostly through the draft? That takes a long time but it's probably your only real option. That is what you are seeing here. Sorry it's not going faster but Connor McDavid isn't coming through that door.

Ask yourself why players wouldn't want to join your dysfunctional and systemically losing team? It's not too difficult to figure out. 

[Pimlach]

50 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I always think of who Pegula replaced Regier with. 

In the earliest days of Regier’s tenure, he moved on from two very popular Sabre figures. The first was Ted Nolan, an immensely popular coach with (most of) the players and the fanbase, who had just won coach of the year.  New to the GM role and having no history with Nolan, Regier offered a one year extension. Nolan felt betrayed and left. Ruff was brought in. I think this turned out well for the franchise, but Regier was seen as the villain by some. 

A few months later, Regier traded legend and fan favourite Pat Lafontaine. Lafontaine had health issues. Whether the Sabre organization and Regier were worried about the bottom-line or Lafontaine’s health is a reasonable debate I suppose, but in the end Lafontaine wanted to keep playing and the Sabres didn’t want the risk and so he was dealt to the Rangers. Lafontaine would not play beyond that season. Again, Regier was the villain to some. That cold-hearted image stuck with Regier, to some degree, through his tenure as Sabre GM.

Fast forward to Regier’s firing. Who does the newish owner and long-time Sabre fan who got weepy when meeting his Sabre heroes, replace Regier with?  Pat Lafontaine. And who did Lafontaine bring in to coach? Ted Nolan. It wasn’t enough for Pegula to just replace Regier, he had to symbolically poke him in the eye. If Pegula realized this, and I think he clearly did, then consider that his priority in hiring a replacement was not the most qualified person but rather a past-Sabre-hero who also symbolically represented the opposite of Regier. If Pegula was oblivious to all of this, then it draws into question his real-world social intellect. 

When Pegula hired Adams, I thought the best we could hope for was a happy accident. Through late 22-23, it looked like we might have gotten lucky. Today, it is clear that we have not.

Whatever his reasons, the hiring of LaFontaine as POHO was a huge mistake.  He had very little FO  experience and he had major issues getting along during his extremely short stint with the NYI.  Red flags everywhere.  

The ever crusty Tim Murray was another terrible hire and a remnant of Patty LaFontaine.  An unchecked Murray was disastrous, and then putting  Kim in charge of the Sabres to work with him -  another very bad idea.  Murray used too many bad words when he talked.  

Anyone surprised that Murray’s NHL career ended with his firing?  

Defending Terry Pegula and his hockey record is a fools game.   

 

Edited January 9 by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You are the GM of a team that most people won't join. What do you do? What are your options? Build a team mostly through the draft? That takes a long time but it's probably your only real option. That is what you are seeing here. Sorry it's not going faster but Connor McDavid isn't coming through that door.

But Jack Eichel did. 

[Weave]

2 hours ago, Stoner said:

 

This is the world we live in.

The earth isn't flat? Prove it!

Terry isn't the root of all evil? Prove it.

Spoiler alert: he engineered the tank. At least according to Darcy. The extent of the rebuild would never have gone that far had the GM been in charge of it.

EEE is Terry's plan. Do you think the various decisions made under that banner haven't hurt the team's competitiveness? Do you think a GM would ever choose to run a team this way?

But keep lickin' them boots. Someday your yacht will come.

You always wonder how citizens support despots out to destroy a country. Ours has destroyed our beloved team, and he has his fans. His gaslighters.

Astounding.

[PromoTheRobot]

Some good answers here. Sorry it's behind a paywall.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nhl/sabres/buffalo-sabres-mailbag-terry-pegula-nhl/article_28eefbc0-cb88-11ef-b98f-d7318a693e0f.html

[Stoner]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Some good answers here. Sorry it's behind a paywall.

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/professional/nhl/sabres/buffalo-sabres-mailbag-terry-pegula-nhl/article_28eefbc0-cb88-11ef-b98f-d7318a693e0f.html

Lance doesn't know that PSE isn't hiring.

[sabremike]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You are the GM of a team that most people won't join. What do you do? What are your options? Build a team mostly through the draft? That takes a long time but it's probably your only real option. That is what you are seeing here. Sorry it's not going faster but Connor McDavid isn't coming through that door.

If you were a player would you want to join an organization that made someone as grossly unqualified as Kevyn Adams the GM?

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You are the GM of a team that most people won't join. What do you do? What are your options? Build a team mostly through the draft? That takes a long time but it's probably your only real option. That is what you are seeing here. Sorry it's not going faster but Connor McDavid isn't coming through that door.

Who wants to join a team that the owner refuse to spend to the cap and hasn't made the playoffs in 14 years? Terry made the franchise into a franchise no one wants to come to. He did that. 

Terry and Adams were the drivers of not letting Eichel get surgery and trading him. Terry pushed for the Skinner contract to be 8 years and get done regardless. Terry wanted Leino and Ehrhoff. Terry has hired the GM and refuses to fire him. Terry hired Barf Krueger. Terry has refused to allow trades that increase actual money spent which is why Adams has never taken cap dumps. Terry wanted Ruff as coach. Terry wanted to keep all the assistants cuz they were under contract. Terry did EEE. Terry sits in draft meetings and offers his opinions which considering how this org runs, I am guessing hold a ton of weight. You'd have to be a naive child to think that the big boss offering opinions just gets ignored when he's shown he fires ppl who won't do what he wants, Jason Botterill was literally fired for declining to do what Terry wanted. 

The list goes on and on and on and on. Terry made this franchise a joke. He is the owner, the buck stops with him and no one wants to come here because since he has been owner, they have never made the playoffs. 

You can try and gaslight all you want, but you're selling and I ain't buying. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

It's actually nearly impossible to build a team solely through the draft even if you are good at talent evaluation.  

Let's say a rebuilding team averages 9 picks a year and hits on 3 players each draft.  Over 7 years the team will develop 21 players.  Seems simple, but in reality, those 21 players may not be from the positions of greatest need and by the time the 3 guys from the last draft become productive NHLers, the guys from the first draft could be ten year vets and moved on from their initial team.  

If you look at most teams that utilize the draft and develop strategy, you may see 10-12 drafted players at most on the roster.   The Sabres are currently at 12 drafted players including callups Kulich and Kozak.   We also have been using this draft and develop strategy for over 9 years (Jbot and KA) and we haven't developed and kept enough defensive D, playmakers or centers.  

To make the strategy work, the GM has to find trading partners to move out excess prospects to fill holes in the NHL roster and you have to find the right FAs and that may include taking a big $ risk on a guy or two.  

[PromoTheRobot]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Who wants to join a team that the owner refuse to spend to the cap and hasn't made the playoffs in 14 years? Terry made the franchise into a franchise no one wants to come to. He did that. 

Terry and Adams were the drivers of not letting Eichel get surgery and trading him. Terry pushed for the Skinner contract to be 8 years and get done regardless. Terry wanted Leino and Ehrhoff. Terry has hired the GM and refuses to fire him. Terry hired Barf Krueger. Terry has refused to allow trades that increase actual money spent which is why Adams has never taken cap dumps. Terry wanted Ruff as coach. Terry wanted to keep all the assistants cuz they were under contract. Terry did EEE. Terry sits in draft meetings and offers his opinions which considering how this org runs, I am guessing hold a ton of weight. You'd have to be a naive child to think that the big boss offering opinions just gets ignored when he's shown he fires ppl who won't do what he wants, Jason Botterill was literally fired for declining to do what Terry wanted. 

The list goes on and on and on and on. Terry made this franchise a joke. He is the owner, the buck stops with him and no one wants to come here because since he has been owner, they have never made the playoffs. 

You can try and gaslight all you want, but you're selling and I ain't buying. 

Who is arguing this point?

[msw2112]

15 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Wow.  This may be one of the worst takes I have ever read here.  
 

Wow. Just wow.  

It actually could be worse.  Ask the fans of the Arizona Coyotes (I mean Utah Hockey Club).  I'm one of them (The 'Yotes were formerly my 2nd favorite team, after the Sabres).  There are lots of cities that would love to have a NHL team, and even better if they could do it without paying an expansion fee (Houston, Kansas City, Quebec City, etc.)  Salt Lake City was one of those cities.

My comment isn't to say that Pegula has been a great hockey owner - the evidence is clearly to the contrary - but, yes, it could be worse.  The situation in Buffalo can be fixed.  See the current Buffalo Bills, who after a 17 year playoff drought, are one of the perennial favorites in the league and are considered a model franchise.  Pegula needs to find the right people to run the team and then (more or less) get out of the way.  After failures with the likes of Russ Brandon and Rex Ryan, he got it right with the Bills.  He's had a whole lot more swings and misses on the hockey side, but eventually, he'll get it right with the Sabres.  I'm not arguing that it's been a long and painful journey that is still going, but eventually, he'll get the right team in place.  Maybe it's just the case of the blind squirrel finding the nut, but it will happen eventually.  I understand and empathize with Sabres fans who have suffered for 14+ years (I'm one of them too) and have had enough, but the current situation is better than having an owner who cashes out and simply sells to the highest bidder or who bungles the arena situation so badly that the team has no place to play and is forced to sell by the league.  This is not hyperbole, it's exactly what happened in Arizona.

Edited January 9 by msw2112

[LGR4GM]

20 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Okay. We're Micky Mouse. Now give me an example where Terry prevented Adams from making a move?

Right here