ESPN Article on the Sabres

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Right here

Seriously? That's what you get from that statement? Wow.

[LGR4GM]

11 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Hey, stop injecting facts into a good rant.

I notice how you picked one thing I said that you thought had a weakness and went after that. Ignored the rest of Terry's incompetence. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Who is arguing this point?

You are! And if you are not then I don't know where you are coming from. @LGR4GM and others have listed countless personnel moves that have continuously set this franchise back. The exhaustive catalogue of inexplicable/stupid hirings and transactions has kept this ridiculed franchise stuck in the ignominious category of being a laughingstock franchise.

[LabattBlue]

2 hours ago, msw2112 said:

It actually could be worse.  Ask the fans of the Arizona Coyotes (I mean Utah Hockey Club).  I'm one of them (The 'Yotes were formerly my 2nd favorite team, after the Sabres).  There are lots of cities that would love to have a NHL team, and even better if they could do it without paying an expansion fee (Houston, Kansas City, Quebec City, etc.)  Salt Lake City was one of those cities.

My comment isn't to say that Pegula has been a great hockey owner - the evidence is clearly to the contrary - but, yes, it could be worse.  The situation in Buffalo can be fixed.  See the current Buffalo Bills, who after a 17 year playoff drought, are one of the perennial favorites in the league and are considered a model franchise.  Pegula needs to find the right people to run the team and then (more or less) get out of the way.  After failures with the likes of Russ Brandon and Rex Ryan, he got it right with the Bills.  He's had a whole lot more swings and misses on the hockey side, but eventually, he'll get it right with the Sabres.  I'm not arguing that it's been a long and painful journey that is still going, but eventually, he'll get the right team in place.  Maybe it's just the case of the blind squirrel finding the nut, but it will happen eventually.  I understand and empathize with Sabres fans who have suffered for 14+ years (I'm one of them too) and have had enough, but the current situation is better than having an owner who cashes out and simply sells to the highest bidder or who bungles the arena situation so badly that the team has no place to play and is forced to sell by the league.  This is not hyperbole, it's exactly what happened in Arizona.

So if “he is not one of the all time worst NHL owners” is based on the fact that he has kept the team in Buffalo, I am speechless.  
 

Your expectation bar is so low, I am not sure what this buffoon would have to do before you would want him out as owner?

[LGR4GM]

23 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

"Make some moves" is an easy suggestion to make, ignoring the reality of NMC's. So do you make moves to placate the fanbase or actually improve the team? Whether it's self-inflicted or not, the Sabres are where they are right now. If two-thirds of potential players won't accept a trade, what are you left with? Overpayment is an option and I'm fine with that. but you tend to attract paycheck chasers like Taylor Hall. guys who aren't here to improve the team. Just cash in and demand a trade later. I'm afraid we have to rely on growing our own players and augment it with Zucker-level signings/trades and crossing our fingers.  That said, this team is already talented enough to win games when they play with their heads out of their butts. How about a little coaching magic?

And why are we on every teams NMC? 

23 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Okay. We're Micky Mouse. Now give me an example where Terry prevented Adams from making a move?

Name one player that added salary to the roster that was a cap dump to help improve the team?

18 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Then name one. Like you said, it can't be hard.

Conjecture. See a result and apply a reason of your choosing. It was reported that Adams was trying to sign a top 6 forward but couldn't get anyone to waive their NMC. The fact that Adams didn't turn around and spend that cap for cap's sake doesn't prove that he wasn't allowed to spend it. Again, we're talking about just under $7MM, not $25MM.

2 things, why does that player not want to come here (Terry's 14 year playoff drought) and second, that makes us the 4th cheapest team in the league and we have not spent to the cap since before Covid even though, there's plenty of evidence being this far under the cap makes it almost impossible for a team to reach the playoffs let alone win a cup which TBH is the goal. We are so broken as a franchise we talk about the f-ing playoffs now as the goal. 

16 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I am in no way wishing anything away. You are avoiding my challenge by throwing platitudes at me. "The record is the record." Bill Parcells might have said that but it's totally meaningless beyond being a record. It came about from hundreds if not thousands of smaller factors. You are more interested in assigning blame than pinpointing a cause. You want the owner to own this but you can't point to anything he's done to bring this about beyond hiring the wrong people. 

And that would be enough. After all he's responsible for his hires. But people here also accuse him of meddling in team affairs. And I have yet to see anyone point to an instance of that happening. We certainly try to weave evidence. "$7 million of unspent cap is surely proof!!" But it really isn't.

EEE, done. Terry wanted Botterill to fire the entire hockey department, he refused, Terry fired him, had Adams gut the department and then made ppl who used to work there interview for their old jobs like some sort of psychology study from the 50s. 

5 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You are the GM of a team that most people won't join. What do you do? What are your options? Build a team mostly through the draft? That takes a long time but it's probably your only real option. That is what you are seeing here. Sorry it's not going faster but Connor McDavid isn't coming through that door.

Jack Eichel is in the top 10 in scoring. Sam Reinhart is in the top 10 in scoring. Both players were here. You act like every player has a NMC, they don't. Elias Petterson does not. Martin Necas does not. I can find players on every team in the league that do not. You can argue they aren't for sale but we know some of them have been and Adams never gets the deal over the line so either he is incompetent or NHL gms won't work with him fairly which is just as bad. 

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Who wants to join a team that the owner refuse to spend to the cap and hasn't made the playoffs in 14 years? Terry made the franchise into a franchise no one wants to come to. He did that. 

 

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Who is arguing this point?

I guess I am arguing this point. Who wants to come to a team where the owner isn't committed to winning and the front office is Terry's yes man and his favorite old time coach? A team that is 14 years removed from the playoffs and 20yrs removed from winning a playoff series. 

"You want the owner to own this but you can't point to anything he's done to bring this about beyond hiring the wrong people." 

I listed a bunch of stuff he has done. You are asking who is arguing my first point, that's really the main point though in all of this. If Terry had not meddled, had not pushed for the things he has, had not hired, stuck with, and otherwise demanded things be done his way, then the team doesn't miss the playoffs for 14 years and players might actually be interested in coming here. See all of this flows into the overall point. Terry built this franchise into a 14 year no playoff perennial loser. He's influenced player decision (Jeff Skinner's contract for example) if not outright being telling a GM exactly what they would be doing (EEE and Botterill) and all of that has led us to this point. 

So idk what you are looking for at this point. Does Terry need to stand up on video, slap Adams and say "no you will get player X" and then watch as Adams cries and trades for player X while sobbing into the phone? Do you need more proof than Terry in all the videos agreeing with any move we see made like in the Hall video where he sees it as making us a cup contender? Terry is in charge, that is very clear.

[msw2112]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

So if “he is not one of the all time worst NHL owners” is based on the fact that he has kept the team in Buffalo, I am speechless.  
 

Your expectation bar is so low, I am not sure what this buffoon would have to do before you would want him out as owner?

Don't put words in my mouth.  I never said "he is not one of the all time worst NHL owners."  What I said is that IT COULD BE WORSE.  The former owners of the Arizona Coyotes were worse than Pegula (several of them, in fact) and now that market has NO NHL team.  For what it's worth, the new owners in Utah are reported to be terrific.  But yes, keeping the team in Buffalo is a big reason I put up with Pegula as owner.  There are other reasons too.  Because Pegula figured it out with the Bills on his 2nd or 3rd try and owns what is now considered a "model" NFL franchise, with a few more swings of the bat, I think he can accomplish the same in the NHL.  Maybe it will be on his 5th or 6th try and we, as fans, will suffer until then, but life will go on and Buffalo will still have a NHL team, even if it plays more like it belongs in the AHL.  Pegula also has very deep pockets and can sustain the team until the ship is righted.  He also has a background and history as a Sabres fan, so he cares about the team and doesn't simply see it as a business asset.  There are two reasons, in my opinion, that he's not spending money on the Sabres: a) he's spent money in the past and did not get the intended results, so he's trying a different path to improvement (draft and develop) than simply "throwing money at the problem" and b) there is some truth to the fact that free agents don't want to come to Buffalo and veteran players don't want to waive their No-Trade clauses to come to Buffalo.  And it has nothing to do with palm trees and taxes, it's because the team sucks.

If I had the choice of:

a) Pegula sells the team and the new owner moves it to Houston, a much larger market where it can make a whole lot more money; or

b) Pegula stays on as owner and the team stays in Buffalo

I would choose b.

If Pegula were to sell the team to a local owner who had the assets to properly operate a NHL franchise and an iron clad promise to keep the team in Buffalo, I'd be fine with that.  I'm not aware of any parties that fit that category.  Can the Jacobs family (Delaware North) buy the team while still owning the Bruins?  Who else is there?  And is that person any more competent in professional sports than Pegula?  At least Terry has a track record of figuring it out with one other professional sports franchise after a couple of swings and misses.

Pegula needs to hire a competent front office and things will be fine.  He's tried and failed 3 or 4 times now, but eventually he'll find the right people.  It might be next year or 3 years from now.  By then may be you'll be gone and I'll be the only Sabres fan left.  Nobody is forcing you or me to purchase tickets or watch the games on TV.  Am I happy or satisfied with the current state of affairs with my favorite hockey team?  Of course not.  But, other than not buying tickets or not watching, there's not much I can do about it.  I'm content to live my life and when the Sabres finally get the right management in place and turn the ship around, I'll be pretty damn excited.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

Don't put words in my mouth.  I never said "he is not one of the all time worst NHL owners."  What I said is that IT COULD BE WORSE.  The former owners of the Arizona Coyotes were worse than Pegula (several of them, in fact) and now that market has NO NHL team.  For what it's worth, the new owners in Utah are reported to be terrific.  But yes, keeping the team in Buffalo is a big reason I put up with Pegula as owner.  There are other reasons too.  Because Pegula figured it out with the Bills on his 2nd or 3rd try and owns what is now considered a "model" NFL franchise, with a few more swings of the bat, I think he can accomplish the same in the NHL.  Maybe it will be on his 5th or 6th try and we, as fans, will suffer until then, but life will go on and Buffalo will still have a NHL team, even if it plays more like it belongs in the AHL.  Pegula also has very deep pockets and can sustain the team until the ship is righted.  He also has a background and history as a Sabres fan, so he cares about the team and doesn't simply see it as a business asset.  There are two reasons, in my opinion, that he's not spending money on the Sabres: a) he's spent money in the past and did not get the intended results, so he's trying a different path to improvement (draft and develop) than simply "throwing money at the problem" and b) there is some truth to the fact that free agents don't want to come to Buffalo and veteran players don't want to waive their No-Trade clauses to come to Buffalo.  And it has nothing to do with palm trees and taxes, it's because the team sucks.

Honestly, IMPO, you lose any argument about the Sabres the very second you mention the Bills being successful. Terry can't meddle in the Bills, it is well documented that Beane has a free hand. On top of that Josh Allen is football what who? McDavid? Ovechkin? Crosby? is to hockey. Honestly even more so because the QB is the offensive engine of every team. "A few more swings at the bat..." jfc.

[Dreams Burn Down]

4 hours ago, msw2112 said:

but eventually, he'll get it right with the Sabres.  I'm not arguing that it's been a long and painful journey that is still going, but eventually, he'll get the right team in place.  Maybe it's just the case of the blind squirrel finding the nut, but it will happen eventually.

He may eventually get it right, but, at this rate, I won't be alive to see it come to fruition.

[msw2112]

Just now, Dreams Burn Down said:

He may eventually get it right, but, at this rate, I won't be alive to see it come to fruition.

I don't know how old you are, but it's a fair point.  It could take some time.  A better question might be if TERRY will be alive before he is able to see it come to fruition.  I believe it will happen in the next few years.  Personally, I think the next administration after the Adams administration will be the right one.  I believe that the league and others will advise Terry and he'll throw big money at the right guy.  Maybe a POHO who steps in and hires a competent GM and coach.  The cupboard is not bare.  The Sabres have some good assets on the roster and more in the pipeline.  They clearly need some quality veteran defensive defensemen (maybe 2) and some veteran forward with a little bit of scoring ability who play the game the right way (guys like Zucker).  If Adams can't get that done, if the next guy is the right guy, he will.

[PerreaultForever]

The one thing we have learned here among the old arguments is that @PromoTheRobot really likes Terry Pegula and I think he might be the only one. 

[Archie Lee]

8 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

I don't know how old you are, but it's a fair point.  It could take some time.  A better question might be if TERRY will be alive before he is able to see it come to fruition.  I believe it will happen in the next few years.  Personally, I think the next administration after the Adams administration will be the right one.  I believe that the league and others will advise Terry and he'll throw big money at the right guy.  Maybe a POHO who steps in and hires a competent GM and coach.  The cupboard is not bare.  The Sabres have some good assets on the roster and more in the pipeline.  They clearly need some quality veteran defensive defensemen (maybe 2) and some veteran forward with a little bit of scoring ability who play the game the right way (guys like Zucker).  If Adams can't get that done, if the next guy is the right guy, he will.

I thought Ken Holland had retired, but he apparently is working for the NHL now. Maybe he would be interested in a POHO role. Doesn’t fit with Pegula’s hiring history though. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said:

The one thing we have learned here among the old arguments is that @PromoTheRobot really likes Terry Pegula and I think he might be the only one. 

Like I've said several times, he saved the Bills from moving to Toronto. He gets a lifetime's worth of indulgences from me for that. I also think his heart is in the right place. He got lucky with the McDermott hire, maybe he'll get lucky with the Sabres eventually. But at least both teams play in Buffalo!

[msw2112]

29 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Honestly, IMPO, you lose any argument about the Sabres the very second you mention the Bills being successful. Terry can't meddle in the Bills, it is well documented that Beane has a free hand. On top of that Josh Allen is football what who? McDavid? Ovechkin? Crosby? is to hockey. Honestly even more so because the QB is the offensive engine of every team. "A few more swings at the bat..." jfc.

Why would the argument be lost?  If Beane has a "free hand" it was given to him by his boss, Terry Pegula.  Why can't a POHO or GM be hired by the Sabres that has the same "free hand" given by the same boss?  Based on past history, I think it's very realistic that if a competent person is hired, that would be part of the deal.  Maybe a Rick Dudley or a Ken Holland?

As to Allen, you're not wrong that he's a generational player.  That said, the Bills made the playoffs BEFORE Allen was drafted and have built a great culture into which Allen fits perfectly.  The Bills without Allen would be structured differently, but would probably be a good team, whereas Allen makes them a great team.  At this point, most of us would take a good team for the Sabres.  Plus, Barkov, Tkachuk, and Reinhart are all excellent NHL players, but they're not McDavid, Ovechkin or Crosby level guys (not Josh Allen level guys) and they just won a Stanley Cup.  A well-run hockey team can be a playoff team and contend for the Stanley Cup without a generational player on the roster.  The 49ers went to the Super Bowl last year and nearly won the damn thing with Brock Purdy as their QB.  But, first things first, let's just get a competent front office in place for the Sabres so they can become a playoff team.

I love a good debate as much as the next guy, but I need to get back to work!

Edited January 9 by msw2112

[PerreaultForever]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

Like I've said several times, he saved the Bills from moving to Toronto. He gets a lifetime's worth of indulgences from me for that. I also think his heart is in the right place. He got lucky with the McDermott hire, maybe he'll get lucky with the Sabres eventually. But at least both teams play in Buffalo!

That's ultimately the crux of it for you isn't it? The view that he saved the teams from moving and for that he gets a full pass for..............forever?

[PromoTheRobot]

26 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

That's ultimately the crux of it for you isn't it? The view that he saved the teams from moving and for that he gets a full pass for..............forever?

Yup. That's what I said.

Edited January 9 by PromoTheRobot

[Pimlach]

26 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

The one thing we have learned here among the old arguments is that @PromoTheRobot really likes Terry Pegula and I think he might be the only one. 

 

To me it’s not about liking Terry or not liking Terry.  I’m sure he is a decent and likeable guy.  
 

For me it’s 100% about his promises not being kept,  and even worse is that he is not even trying.   The franchise has been decimated and destroyed under his leadership.  It’s a laughing stock and you hear it every time you watch a non Buffalo broadcast.  No one else is to blame.  

[Porous Five Hole]

6 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Whatever his reasons, the hiring of LaFontaine as POHO was a huge mistake.  He had very little FO  experience and he had major issues getting along during his extremely short stint with the NYI.  Red flags everywhere.  

The ever crusty Tim Murray was another terrible hire and a remnant of Patty LaFontaine.  An unchecked Murray was disastrous, and then putting  Kim in charge of the Sabres to work with him -  another very bad idea.  Murray used too many bad words when he talked.  

Anyone surprised that Murray’s NHL career ended with his firing?  

Defending Terry Pegula and his hockey record is a fools game.   

 

I like your post, but I have a slightly different take on the matter of Patty. This is going to be a long one. 

We’ve heard wild rumors of LaFontaine’s argumentative state and mood swings supposedly from his concussion history. Rumors of NDA’s. Playing into the stigma of his clinical depression that LaFontaine was very transparent about after his playing career ended.

https://www.ourmental.health/stars-struggles/hockey-heros-heartache-pat-lafontaines-battle-with-clinical-depression

BTW, the embedded video from the webpage was from approx 2013…the same year he was hired in Buffalo. 

Next, let’s see if we can learn anything from the public comments of an irritated and supportive (to Patty) head coach, Ted Nolan.

Nolan on his future with the team after Pat allegedly resigned:

“Right now is not about my contract,” he said. “It’s about the situation that just happened, what transpired in this organization, what happened to a very dear friend. We’ll leave it at that.”

“That was the main reason I got here is to try to turn things around and coach the Buffalo Sabres,” Nolan said. “Right now, especially, I’m going to really concentrate on that because we traded our franchise player (Miller). We traded our captain (Vanek). That’s tough enough as it is. Then, all of a sudden, a situation happens with Patty.”

BTW, LaFontaine didn’t fade into oblivion to never work again. He went back to work as the NHL’s vice president of hockey development, the position he left to join the Sabres. 

https://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-insist-pat-lafontaine-wasnt-fired-ted-nolan-upset-over-departure/
 

LaFontaine was President of Hockey Operations from November 13, 2013 to March 1, 2014. A total of 108 days.

He hired Tim Murray on Jan. 9, 2014. LaFontaine was Murray's boss. Murray reported to Patty and not to Pegula. LaFontaine and Murray worked together for 51 days.

Here is what I understand happened. Tim Murray wanted to do whatever it took to draft McDavid, but LaFontaine was unwilling to take it down to the studs. He was fine with retooling or getting younger, but no tanking.  LaFontaine understood the culture of a locker room.  He knew tanking didn’t guarantee McJesus. He also told Murray that the 2014 and 2015 drafts were top heavy and we would be fine wherever we landed.

LaFontaine wanted leaders in the room and knew Ryan Miller would have kept the Sabres in games.

LaFontaine knew the risk of tanking. His boss and his subordinate did not.

Murray wanted to trade Ryan Miller and LaFontaine said no. So, instead of following his boss's orders, Murray went directly to Pegula to get permission. Pegula gave him the green light. On February 28, 2014, Murray traded Miller to St. Louis. The next day LaFontaine quit. 

That day ended up being a day of infamy. 
It killed the concept of a senior hockey executive running a hockey department in Buffalo. It killed the relationship with a former star player.  It enabled/empowered Pegs to be closer to hockey decisions. 

But most importantly, the risk of tanking that was ignored back then…well, how we feelin now boys? Thanks Terry!

TL/DR: I agree with Pimlach’s conclusion that you cannot defend Terry’s hockey record and I am here to tell you Pat LaFontaine tried to save us.

[Sidc3000]

5 hours ago, msw2112 said:

but eventually, he'll get it right with the Sabres.  I'm not arguing that it's been a long and painful journey that is still going, but eventually, he'll get the right team in place.  Maybe it's just the case of the blind squirrel finding the nut, but it will happen eventually.

There is no guarantee that he will get it right eventually. Terry wasn’t the owner of the Bills for the whole 17 year drought. He only owned them for 3 years before they made the playoffs. He’s been the owner of the Sabres for 14. 

[LTS]

The only thing wrong in that ESPN article is that the Sabres do not have the longest streak of missing the playoffs of the 4 major sports. Technically that belongs to the Jets. They are officially eliminated before the Sabres are each year and so they technically hold the LONGEST drought length.

No, this does not make me feel any better about it.

[msw2112]

4 minutes ago, LTS said:

The only thing wrong in that ESPN article is that the Sabres do not have the longest streak of missing the playoffs of the 4 major sports. Technically that belongs to the Jets. They are officially eliminated before the Sabres are each year and so they technically hold the LONGEST drought length.

No, this does not make me feel any better about it.

One other error is that it says that Zucker has been on the Sabres' first line for most of the season and that's incorrect.  He spent most of the season on the 3rd line with Greenway and McLeod and they played really well together.  After that, I think Zucker moved around a bit as Lindy shuffled lines trying to find some thing that would work.  It's only recently that Zucker was promoted to the 1st line and I suspect it was because a) Peterka was in a slump and b) because the Quinn-Cozens-Peterka line was very productive in the past and they tried to recapture that magic.  So the writer was a bit lazy in her research, but overall, the article was decent and accurate.

Edited January 9 by msw2112

[LTS]

1 minute ago, msw2112 said:

One other error is that it says that Zucker has been on the Sabres' first line for most of the season and that's incorrect.  He spent most of the season on the 3rd line with Greenway and McLeod and they played really well together.  After that, I think Zucker moved around a bit as Lindy shuffled lines trying to find some thing that would work.  It's only recently that Zucker was promoted to the 1st line and I suspect it was because a) Peterka was in a slump and b) because the Quinn-Cozens-Peterka line was very productive in the past and they tried to recapture that magic.  So the writer was a bit lazy in her research, but overall, the article was decent and accurate.

You had to inject actual seriousness into what I said?  Sigh. 🙂

[Sidc3000]

12 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I like your post, but I have a slightly different take on the matter of Patty. This is going to be a long one. 

We’ve heard wild rumors of LaFontaine’s argumentative state and mood swings supposedly from his concussion history. Rumors of NDA’s. Playing into the stigma of his clinical depression that LaFontaine was very transparent about after his playing career ended.

https://www.ourmental.health/stars-struggles/hockey-heros-heartache-pat-lafontaines-battle-with-clinical-depression

BTW, the embedded video from the webpage was from approx 2013…the same year he was hired in Buffalo. 

Next, let’s see if we can learn anything from the public comments of an irritated and supportive (to Patty) head coach, Ted Nolan.

Nolan on his future with the team after Pat allegedly resigned:

“Right now is not about my contract,” he said. “It’s about the situation that just happened, what transpired in this organization, what happened to a very dear friend. We’ll leave it at that.”

“That was the main reason I got here is to try to turn things around and coach the Buffalo Sabres,” Nolan said. “Right now, especially, I’m going to really concentrate on that because we traded our franchise player (Miller). We traded our captain (Vanek). That’s tough enough as it is. Then, all of a sudden, a situation happens with Patty.”

BTW, LaFontaine didn’t fade into oblivion to never work again. He went back to work as the NHL’s vice president of hockey development, the position he left to join the Sabres. 

https://www.buffalohockeybeat.com/sabres-insist-pat-lafontaine-wasnt-fired-ted-nolan-upset-over-departure/
 

LaFontaine was President of Hockey Operations from November 13, 2013 to March 1, 2014. A total of 108 days.

He hired Tim Murray on Jan. 9, 2014. LaFontaine was Murray's boss. Murray reported to Patty and not to Pegula. LaFontaine and Murray worked together for 51 days.

Here is what I understand happened. Tim Murray wanted to do whatever it took to draft McDavid, but LaFontaine was unwilling to take it down to the studs. He was fine with retooling or getting younger, but no tanking.  LaFontaine understood the culture of a locker room.  He knew tanking didn’t guarantee McJesus. He also told Murray that the 2014 and 2015 drafts were top heavy and we would be fine wherever we landed.

LaFontaine wanted leaders in the room and knew Ryan Miller would have kept the Sabres in games.

LaFontaine knew the risk of tanking. His boss and his subordinate did not.

Murray wanted to trade Ryan Miller and LaFontaine said no. So, instead of following his boss's orders, Murray went directly to Pegula to get permission. Pegula gave him the green light. On February 28, 2014, Murray traded Miller to St. Louis. The next day LaFontaine quit. 

That day ended up being a day of infamy. 
It killed the concept of a senior hockey executive running a hockey department in Buffalo. It killed the relationship with a former star player.  It enabled/empowered Pegs to be closer to hockey decisions. 

But most importantly, the risk of tanking that was ignored back then…well, how we feelin now boys? Thanks Terry!

TL/DR: I agree with Pimlach’s conclusion that you cannot defend Terry’s hockey record and I am here to tell you Pat LaFontaine tried to save us.

Did not know a lot of this. Wow. 

[msw2112]

15 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

There is no guarantee that he will get it right eventually. Terry wasn’t the owner of the Bills for the whole 17 year drought. He only owned them for 3 years before they made the playoffs. He’s been the owner of the Sabres for 14. 

So he was able to find the right coach & GM combination with the Bills in ONLY 3 YEARS, which speaks more favorably to Pegula than if it had taken him 17.  With the Sabres, he's made SO MANY bad hires (over a long, painful 14 years) that maybe he'll try something different and get it right the next time.

But you're right, there's no guarantee.  In my opinion, which is heavily disputed on this board, his commitment to the City of Buffalo and Western New York, his success with the Bills (even if by pure luck), his deep pockets, and his previously expressed love for the Sabres give him the leeway to take another shot at getting it right.  Note that that doesn't mean I think he's done a good job as the Sabres' owner.  He's been terrible.  I feel like some of those who have been critical of my position are missing that part of it.

Edited January 9 by msw2112

[msw2112]

12 minutes ago, LTS said:

You had to inject actual seriousness into what I said?  Sigh. 🙂

Not to denigrate your post, but I didn't read it that carefully.  Based on my very quick read, I thought you were making a legitimate criticism of the author. Apologies for my sarcasm meter being off.  I noticed this inaccuracy in the article yesterday and was going to post something, but decided it wasn't that significant to warrant a post.  Then I saw a pointing out an "inaccuracy" in the article, so it seemed to open the door to another one.

Just another indicator that I need to get off the Sabres message board and get back to work!

Edited January 9 by msw2112

[Sidc3000]

18 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

But you're right, there's no guarantee.  In my opinion, which is heavily disputed on this board, his commitment to the City of Buffalo and Western New York, his success with the Bills (even if by pure luck), his deep pockets, and his previously expressed love for the Sabres give him the leeway to take another shot at getting it right. 

How much longer are we going to give him?