Reviewing Adams' Off-season acquisitions at the half way mark

[OrangeSeatVertigo]

Obviously, with the improved goaltending, they made a mistake in firing Granato and his go go go score as much as possible offense.   they strategy probably works if the goaltending is good.   win every game 7-5.  works for me.  

Bring Granato style back.  It will work now.  

[LGR4GM]

Just FYI:

Dylan Cozens: 40games, 8g, 12a, for 20 points and -12, he scores 0.7g/60 and gets 1.0a/60

Ryan McLeod: 40games, 6g, 12a, for 18pts and a +/-0, he scores 0.6g/60 and gets 1.2a/60

But Ryan McLeod shouldn't be re-signed and is a 4th liner and isn't that good and etc... funny how perceptions shift based on recency bias. Both players have similar xGF too. Now Cozens has 102 TOI for PP compared to 4mins for McLeod. My point being is quite simple, we view Cozens as a different level of player but instead maybe McLeod and Cozens are a similar level of player aka middle 6 centers. 

For those who don't know, /60 above refers to goals or assists per 60minutes of ice time in all situations. Basically this season, these 2 are producing points at almost exactly the same rates. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Just FYI:

Dylan Cozens: 40games, 8g, 12a, for 20 points and -12, he scores 0.7g/60 and gets 1.0a/60

Ryan McLeod: 40games, 6g, 12a, for 18pts and a +/-0, he scores 0.6g/60 and gets 1.2a/60

But Ryan McLeod shouldn't be re-signed and is a 4th liner and isn't that good and etc... funny how perceptions shift based on recency bias. Both players have similar xGF too. Now Cozens has 102 TOI for PP compared to 4mins for McLeod. My point being is quite simple, we view Cozens as a different level of player but instead maybe McLeod and Cozens are a similar level of player aka middle 6 centers. 

For those who don't know, /60 above refers to goals or assists per 60minutes of ice time in all situations. Basically this season, these 2 are producing points at almost exactly the same rates. 

This season.  Basically you are saying that Cozens sucks as badly as McLeod.  You are also given McLeod good start as much weight as his terrible last 22 games.  Cozens also has a much better track record.  That said Cozens along with Power are at the top of my trade list.  

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This season.  Basically you are saying that Cozens sucks as badly as McLeod.  You are also given McLeod good start as much weight as his terrible last 22 games.  Cozens also has a much better track record.  That said Cozens along with Power are at the top of my trade list.  

McLeod has also been put with trash linemates while Cozens has had Tuch, JJP, Tage, and Zucker for much of the year in various rotations. Beats Malestyn and Kubel for McLeod. Also McLeod may not be scoring but his actual play isn't terrible. When Cozens is off he is terrible when McLeod is off he is just average. Still doesn't change the fact that Cozens and McLeod are basically the same right now so the notion you posed of not even signing McLeod is on the surface, nuts. 

[Pimlach]

48 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Sure but you can't trade a 1st round pick for really good NHL players. You have to add these days. It's why trading for McLeod makes sense, you can trade a former 1st round pick for that. 

In 2021 they should have drafted Cossa IMPO but Rosen wasn't much of a reach, the next defender to go is Ceulemans and then Lambos 10 picks later. Are we arguing Buffalo should have drafted a defender instead of Rosen? In 2022 the biggest ***** up was taking Leinonen when Noah Warren, Luca Del Bel Belluz and Seamus Casey were all still on the board. Also missed out on Tristan Luneau. 2023, you take Benson and punch old ladies on the way to the stage to do it. I don't here anyone complaining about Wahlberg in the 2nd and then we take a defender in Strbak. I think I can argue that Andrew Gibson would have been a doog pick but Detroit got him before we picked again and Wahlberg is probably the better choice. Sabres take another defender in McCarthy in the 3rd. 

Really since Buffalo got their drafting in order in 2022, they haven't done much that is awful, except Leinonen, that was stupid. They have drafted a decent mix of forawrds and defense. They also seem to realize the truth of the matter which is good "stay at home" (hate that term because it isn't how the NHL works in 2025) defenders can be found quite easily in rounds 2 and 3 but goal scoring forwards basically only come from the top of the draft. 

 

Agree that the drafts have been ok.  Not complaining about who they drafted, and were they slotted, I do not study the draft.   

I think that given the circumstances using all 3 first rounders was a bit much and if anything it clogged up the pipeline with forwards.   A trade, such as bundling a #1 pick for an NHL player that could have helped was a possibility.  

My concern is similar to yours and most here - Given we are developing Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, and Benson in the NHL, how and when do we eventually use Rosen, Savoie, Kulich, Östlund, Hellenius, Walhberg, the Russians, etc. ?     

Adams traded Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, etc., and stockpiled picks while only acquiring one solid NHL player (Tuch), and two more prospects (Krebs and Levi) .    So we have this pipeline that goes on and on, but the NHL roster remains very young and ineffective. 

Savoie was moved and people here are worried that he will be good some day.  He probably will be good and possibly "better" than McLeod.  Not much you can do about that.  

We traded Eichel, Reinhart and Mitts as they were hitting prime.  Trading Cozens/Quinn/Peterka (you could add Power)  in the same manner after investing all this time into their development seems like another mistake in the making.  Maybe another big mistake.  

I just cannot reconcile drafting all those forwards with prime picks given we had already Cozens/Quinn/Peterka in development.   But if they were the BPA I get why they were picked.  

The bottom line is there has to be a way to get better NHL players on this roster.  We will likely get a top 5 pick this year. Keeping that pick might make sense if we can move some of the Rochester kids and get good NHL players to help us now.  

 

[Pimlach]

39 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Just FYI:

Dylan Cozens: 40games, 8g, 12a, for 20 points and -12, he scores 0.7g/60 and gets 1.0a/60

Ryan McLeod: 40games, 6g, 12a, for 18pts and a +/-0, he scores 0.6g/60 and gets 1.2a/60

But Ryan McLeod shouldn't be re-signed and is a 4th liner and isn't that good and etc... funny how perceptions shift based on recency bias. Both players have similar xGF too. Now Cozens has 102 TOI for PP compared to 4mins for McLeod. My point being is quite simple, we view Cozens as a different level of player but instead maybe McLeod and Cozens are a similar level of player aka middle 6 centers. 

For those who don't know, /60 above refers to goals or assists per 60minutes of ice time in all situations. Basically this season, these 2 are producing points at almost exactly the same rates. 

And McLeod is doing it mostly on the bottom 6 while Cozen on the top 6. 

When McLeod played with combinations of Greenway/Zucker and Benson he was scoring.   With the 4th line he isn't.  

I still like Cozens ceiling, I keep dreaming of a rugged and hard working  6'3" 210lb, 30 goal and 60 point forward.  We had a flash of it.  

[JohnC]

25 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

And McLeod is doing it mostly on the bottom 6 while Cozen on the top 6. 

When McLeod played with combinations of Greenway/Zucker and Benson he was scoring.   With the 4th line he isn't.  

I still like Cozens ceiling, I keep dreaming of a rugged and hard working  6'3" 210lb, 30 goal and 60 point forward.  We had a flash of it.  

The issue I'm still undecided about with Cozens is whether he is more suited as a winger or center. When he plays in the international tournaments and plays the wing, he seems to excel. No question that playing with elite talent elevates his game. But where is he most suited?  As you point out, intermittently, he flashes a lot of potential. I'm confident that if he was traded to a professionally run franchise, he would thrive like a number of our former players have done. 

[Archie Lee]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

You wanna play this game then who would you have picked? Personally the only one that I think is obvious, is I would have skipped Savoie and drafted Mintyukov. But both of your arguments make no sense at all.Y Who cares about having Tuch, Thompson, and Mittelstadt? It takes 2-3 years at the earliest for even first round picks to make an NHL impact. Your argument has no logic behind it other than "but we had drafted other forwards" which is like... well yea, we also have 2 first overall defenders and a 4th overall defender. Why would we be wasting high picks on more LHD? What would you have drafted there? Not centers? Wingers? I don't even understand your argument because it is so illogical. 

Maybe 1 of the bolded players will be an NHL regular. Sardarian has 26pts in 20 NCAA games which is his 3rd season. He'll be 22 in 1 month. Marjala has 33pts in 32 games in Liiga, he's another guy about to be 22. Those numbers from both look like 3rd or maybe 4th line guys after you get them a full AHL season. Neuchev is interesting as he looks decent in the AHL but is yet another guy a year or more away from the NHL. Richard maybe is a middle 6 winger in another 2-3 years. Miedema is an overager in the OHL so unless he puts up historic numbers, idc. He has AHL tweener written all over him. He maxes out at a 3rd line 30pt winger probably, that's on the high end. 

But again, this makes your argument even less logical. We shouldn't draft forwards high because we have too many and it hurts the forwards we drafted lower? What ? You draft talent and then trade for what you don't have. Also, this completely ignores the fact there are 12 forward spots and only 6 defense slots, 3 of which are taken by 1st overall, 1st overall, and 4th overall players. Also also, if these guys you claim might be good, why can't we trade them to an org where they will get "oxygen" if they are valuable? You think NHL gms go "oh man Neuchev looks really good but like he was drafted later than Östlund so we can't trade for him". 

SO my final question is, are you seriously arguing that Buffalo should have drafted fewer forwards and more defenders high? Granted this ignores the Kleber, Strbak, McCarthy picks or the Novikov and Komarov (if his skating improves) that are in the system. 

Exactly, which is why you trade Savoie and draft Helenius. 

You missed the part where I said I largely agree with you. I was just trying to provide some nuance to the discussion.  I'm not arguing against a BPA strategy, but rather that the Sabres would be better to move some of these players before their value diminishes to nothing. The urgency for moving some of these players is made greater, in my opinion, by so many being of similar (not identical) skillsets.     

I'm also not arguing that any of the secondary prospects are going to hit, but rather that none of them will hit with us if there is no place for them to develop with us. Several of them are performing at a better-than-could-be-hoped-for level given their draft position.

Also, Meidema is not an overage (defined as a 20 year old by the CHL).  He is in his 19 year old season and has the same birth year of Benson and Wahlberg.

Finally, I thought you agreed that it was time to move off of some prospects.

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Just FYI:

Dylan Cozens: 40games, 8g, 12a, for 20 points and -12, he scores 0.7g/60 and gets 1.0a/60

Ryan McLeod: 40games, 6g, 12a, for 18pts and a +/-0, he scores 0.6g/60 and gets 1.2a/60

But Ryan McLeod shouldn't be re-signed and is a 4th liner and isn't that good and etc... funny how perceptions shift based on recency bias. Both players have similar xGF too. Now Cozens has 102 TOI for PP compared to 4mins for McLeod. My point being is quite simple, we view Cozens as a different level of player but instead maybe McLeod and Cozens are a similar level of player aka middle 6 centers. 

For those who don't know, /60 above refers to goals or assists per 60minutes of ice time in all situations. Basically this season, these 2 are producing points at almost exactly the same rates. 

Let me add my favorite thing to the comparison....play away from the puck DRASTICALLY favores McLeod.

I don't see McLeod make huge mistakes away from the puck. Cozens?  I have stopped posting because its just so repetitive, but in the past year I have posted (in GDTs and other places) screenshot after screenshot and some videos of Cozen having WFT moments away from the puck.  Chasing a puck into the corner he has no chance of getting and leaving his spot wide open. Finishing checks that only accomplish taking himself out of a play. Trying to make an ill-advised hit away from the puck and on the way to doing that, taking out himself and one of his own teammates.  Taking shots on the PP where he blasts the puck into the shin pads of a defencder when a teamate is in his line of sight and wide open-uncovered (OK, that is one WITH the puck).

Cozens NEEDS to score 30+ on this team to be of value to just make up for/even out all the negative things he does wihout the puck.

If he doesn't improve his full game (scoring and away from the puck game), he needs to be gone, especially when considering his cap hit.

[LGR4GM]

43 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

You missed the part where I said I largely agree with you. I was just trying to provide some nuance to the discussion.  I'm not arguing against a BPA strategy, but rather that the Sabres would be better to move some of these players before their value diminishes to nothing. The urgency for moving some of these players is made greater, in my opinion, by so many being of similar (not identical) skillsets.     

I'm also not arguing that any of the secondary prospects are going to hit, but rather that none of them will hit with us if there is no place for them to develop with us. Several of them are performing at a better-than-could-be-hoped-for level given their draft position.

Also, Meidema is not an overage (defined as a 20 year old by the CHL).  He is in his 19 year old season and has the same birth year of Benson and Wahlberg.

Finally, I thought you agreed that it was time to move off of some prospects.

It is time, but you are arguing we shouldn't have drafted all of these players and should have drafted something other than centers. 

Also I don't agree that "Several of them are performing at a better-than-could-be-hoped-for level given their draft position." all the guys I mentioned are at their draft status. They are long shots one and all. Also, you don't develop players in the NHL, certainly not 4th liners which is what most of these guys are. Why should I care if they develop with us? We have guys that are better, so am I supposed to fret that someone guy is Hagel and suddenly gets good? as Opposed to someone getting good like Wahlberg? Should I ship out Östlund so that Miedema has an AHL spot? Why? 

Again, this is illogical. You are saying "we should move on from these guys, to get a look at these other guys because WHAT IF!?" and I just don't see that as any sort of reason to do anything. 

Also this is Miedema 4th OHL year, so I understand why you don't call that an overager but he's barely doing a point per game in his 4th OHL seasons. That just screamers tweener. He's basically plateaued and that's not a great sign. 

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

It is time, but you are arguing we shouldn't have drafted all of these players and should have drafted something other than centers. 

Also I don't agree that "Several of them are performing at a better-than-could-be-hoped-for level given their draft position." all the guys I mentioned are at their draft status. They are long shots one and all. Also, you don't develop players in the NHL, certainly not 4th liners which is what most of these guys are. Why should I care if they develop with us? We have guys that are better, so am I supposed to fret that someone guy is Hagel and suddenly gets good? as Opposed to someone getting good like Wahlberg? Should I ship out Östlund so that Miedema has an AHL spot? Why? 

Again, this is illogical. You are saying "we should move on from these guys, to get a look at these other guys because WHAT IF!?" and I just don't see that as any sort of reason to do anything. 

Also this is Miedema 4th OHL year, so I understand why you don't call that an overager but he's barely doing a point per game in his 4th OHL seasons. That just screamers tweener. He's basically plateaued and that's not a great sign. 

A few things.

1.) I didn’t argue against our draft strategy, I am arguing against our post-draft strategy.
2.) We will need to agree to disagree on how well Marjala, Sardarian, Miedema, and Richard are performing. By no means am I predicting an NHL future for any of them. I just want them to not be totally lost in the shuffle because we have no room. 
3.) I am not saying we should trade any of our top prospects to make space for our long-shot prospects. I am saying we should trade some of our top prospects (and a couple of our youngest NHL players) for veteran NHL players who can help us win now, or next year. The secondary benefit would be the creation of some space to make room for some of our lesser prospects who are currently afterthoughts. 
4.) I don’t call Miedema an overager for one reason: he is not an overager. There are several CHL players drafted ahead of him in his draft year who he is outperforming stat-wise, including 18th OA Colby Barlow. Regardless, it isn’t my intent to pound the table for Miedema. 

[LGR4GM]

59 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

A few things.

1.) I didn’t argue against our draft strategy, I am arguing against our post-draft strategy.
2.) We will need to agree to disagree on how well Marjala, Sardarian, Miedema, and Richard are performing. By no means am I predicting an NHL future for any of them. I just want them to not be totally lost in the shuffle because we have no room. 
3.) I am not saying we should trade any of our top prospects to make space for our long-shot prospects. I am saying we should trade some of our top prospects (and a couple of our youngest NHL players) for veteran NHL players who can help us win now, or next year. The secondary benefit would be the creation of some space to make room for some of our lesser prospects who are currently afterthoughts. 
4.) I don’t call Miedema an overager for one reason: he is not an overager. There are several CHL players drafted ahead of him in his draft year who he is outperforming stat-wise, including 18th OA Colby Barlow. Regardless, it isn’t my intent to pound the table for Miedema. 

Lost to what? If they are good enough, they'll be in Rochester. 

[LGR4GM]

I call Miedema and overager because he's in DY+2 so he's one of the older players in his league. Him playing at a ppg pace now is fine but not exciting. Barlow, imo is the example of why the CHL agreement is bad. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

It’s time to bring this thread back on course to discuss Adan’s continued series of terrible pro acquisitions.  Please move the prospect discussion to the prospect thread.  Thanks

As to McLeod,  the guy doesn’t hit anyone and this was an issue in Edm but it’s even worse here with 12 hits ytd.  (he had 65 last season).  In addition he gives away the puck at twice the rate he takes it away.  He also isn’t shooting the puck. Heading into tonight he had 38 shots on goal (76 shot pace) the season despite playing a career high 15+ minutes a game.  Last season he had 106.  

The talk in Edm after the trade was that he could never quite secure the 3rd line center job due to his lack of a physical game and his lack of consistent scoring despite his great speed and pk ability.  Same player new location although he hasn’t helped out PK at all.

Edited 20 hours ago by GASabresIUFAN

[Archie Lee]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

It’s time to bring this thread back on course to discuss Adan’s continued series of terrible pro acquisitions.  Please move the prospect discussion to the prospect thread.  Thanks

As to McLeod,  the guy doesn’t hit anyone and this was an issue in Edm but it’s even worse here with 12 hits ytd.  (he had 65 last season).  In addition he gives away the puck at twice the rate he takes it away.  He also isn’t shooting the puck. Heading into tonight he had 38 shots on goal (76 shot pace) the season despite playing a career high 15+ minutes a game.  Last season he had 106.  

The talk in Edm after the trade was that he could never quite secure the 3rd line center job due to his lack of a physical game and his lack of consistent scoring despite his great speed and pk ability.  Same player new location although he hasn’t helped out PK at all.

McLeod is as advertised. A fast, defensively responsible, middle-6 C. He can take a draw, kill a penalty, and chip in offensively. He will leave you wishing he was more physical and that he was a better finisher, but he is not those things. At 25, he can be a useful player for us for a long time. Extending him should not prove too costly. Given the depth of our prospect pool and our immediate needs, Savoie will need to become a very good NHL winger for this to be a bad trade, in my view. We needed 2-3 more acquisitions of this level (different positions and skill sets) in the off-season. If that had occurred we would not be in this mess; we would not be a sure playoff team either, but we would be in the mix instead of out of it by Christmas. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

20 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

McLeod is as advertised. A fast, defensively responsible, middle-6 C. He can take a draw, kill a penalty, and chip in offensively. He will leave you wishing he was more physical and that he was a better finisher, but he is not those things. At 25, he can be a useful player for us for a long time. Extending him should not prove too costly. Given the depth of our prospect pool and our immediate needs, Savoie will need to become a very good NHL winger for this to be a bad trade, in my view. We needed 2-3 more acquisitions of this level (different positions and skill sets) in the off-season. If that had occurred we would not be in this mess; we would not be a sure playoff team either, but we would be in the mix instead of out of it by Christmas. 

He isn’t a middle six center.  He isn’t good enough to play on anyone’s 2nd line.  He is a bottom six forward who doesn’t physically engage and only scores sporadically in a physical sport. 

We need a legit top six playmaking forward.  We need two top 4 defensemen.  We need to stop acquiring bottom of the roster garbage and make improvements where they count.  

I have zero problem with moving out prospects and picks as long as the assets we acquire make the Sabres better.  The Sabres are worse than ever.  McLeod hasn’t made the PK better.  His scoring has evaporated, he doesn’t hit anyone and Ruff has placed on the 4th line because Krebs and Kulich are outplaying him.  

 

 

[Archie Lee]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He isn’t a middle six center.  He isn’t good enough to play on anyone’s 2nd line.  He is a bottom six forward who doesn’t physically engage and only scores sporadically in a physical sport. 

We need a legit top six playmaking forward.  We need two top 4 defensemen.  We need to stop acquiring bottom of the roster garbage and make improvements where they count.  

I have zero problem with moving out prospects and picks as long as the assets we acquire make the Sabres better.  The Sabres are worse than ever.  McLeod hasn’t made the PK better.  His scoring has evaporated, he doesn’t hit anyone and Ruff has placed on the 4th line because Krebs and Kulich are outplaying him.  

 

 

We disagree on this. Thanks for the good discussion though. 

Regardless of what McLeod is or isn’t, our GM needed to do more. Starting the year with a top 6 forward group, a six-man D corps, and a goalie tandem, with an average age under 24, in a must make the playoffs season, has had disastrous results. If we assume Adams was sincere in believing this group, with Ruff as HC, was a playoff calibre team, then it is fair to say that he could not have more significantly misjudged the winning potential of the group that he assembled. In the real world of major league sports, GMs simply do not keep their jobs under such circumstances.  Adams isn’t Barry Trotz, who is trying to squeeze another year or two out of an aging Predator roster backed by an all-world goalie. Adams is in year 5 as GM and year 4 of a rebuild and the team that he has assembled has backslid in devastating fashion. 

[Carmel Corn]

25 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He isn’t a middle six center.  He isn’t good enough to play on anyone’s 2nd line.  He is a bottom six forward who doesn’t physically engage and only scores sporadically in a physical sport. 

We need a legit top six playmaking forward.  We need two top 4 defensemen.  We need to stop acquiring bottom of the roster garbage and make improvements where they count.  

I have zero problem with moving out prospects and picks as long as the assets we acquire make the Sabres better.  The Sabres are worse than ever.  McLeod hasn’t made the PK better.  His scoring has evaporated, he doesn’t hit anyone and Ruff has placed on the 4th line because Krebs and Kulich are outplaying him.  

 

 

It’s only one game, but his line was by far the best one last night.  He had the benefit of better wingers.  I’d rather have McLeod playing center over Krebs.