Reviewing Adams' Off-season acquisitions at the half way mark

[mjd1001]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Dylan Cozens: 9g, 12a, 21pts, in 42games with a -13

Ryan McLeod: 7g, 14a, 21pts in 42games with a +5

 

And McLeod is doing that with 2 less minutes of ice time per game, with lesser/less talented linemates for the majority of the season, and with almost 100 minutes less PP ice time this year than Cozens (Cozens has almost 2.5 minutes of PowerPlay time per game, McLeod has 6 seconds per game)

Edited January 10 by mjd1001

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

They've had a hard time unlearning Granato hockey and adjusting to a proper system under Ruff. T

The recent signs of life which have included solid team play have me hoping that the losing streak finally got them to wake up, pay attention, and do what the coach asked them to do. 

The Euro trip was a setback for this season since it cut proper training camp and maybe Ruff underestimated how much unlearning and relearning they would have to do so training camp wasn't intense enough. It's likely too late, and obviously not getting help and/or using the cap space has made a climb back next to impossible but you never know. A winning streak now might get them back in it. Maybe. 

This likely would have all come together much quicker if we had had more solid veteran leadership as well.

The bolded has been foretold.  It has proven to be a problem this season, right out of the starting blocks.   Too much on ice thinking and processing, not enough doing.  

Certainly solid Vet leadership is a need, but it is now time for Thompson and Dahlin and Tuch to provide some of that.    They are the "stars" and if they don't hate all the losing by now that its a problem.  Being popular after practice when hanging out has to come to an end.  These 3 have to start calling out people (within the locker room), and themselves if need be.  

I don't think we will get that from Samuelsson and Cozens is still too young to carry that weight.  Neither of these guys should wear an "A", but they both got big contracts.  

[LETSTUCHINGO]

10 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The bolded has been foretold.  It has proven to be a problem this season, right out of the starting blocks.   Too much on ice thinking and processing, not enough doing.  

Certainly solid Vet leadership is a need, but it is now time for Thompson and Dahlin and Tuch to provide some of that.    They are the "stars" and if they don't hate all the losing by now that its a problem.  Being popular after practice when hanging out has to come to an end.  These 3 have to start calling out people (within the locker room), and themselves if need be.  

I don't think we will get that from Samuelsson and Cozens is still too young to carry that weight.  Neither of these guys should wear an "A", but they both got big contracts.  

I agree with you, but I don't see leadership qualities in Tage. I actual think he is part of the problem. He is the 2nd best player on our team, I'm not arguing that, but he is horribly inconsistent and it appears to me to be effort. He looked God awful last night and to me his game mirrors the team problem, a lack of consistent mental and physical effort. I understand that he is apparently hurt and that is the reason why he is on the wing now, but come on! He is wearing an "A", at the very least his effort shouldn't be questioned!

[LTS]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Dylan Cozens: 9g, 12a, 21pts, in 42games with a -13

Ryan McLeod: 7g, 14a, 21pts in 42games with a +5

 

That's sad.  Dylan Cozens looks broken though. I still believe he's a better player than he's showing but I don't know if he's listening to the rumors of him being traded, if he's just not overcoming his challenges, or what.  Either way it does not change his performance and what's happening.

If he can't shake it he needs to go.  I just hope another team thinks that a change of scenery, etc. will improve things for him.

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

Maybe there is something to the Granato thing. I don’t see it though. As I pointed out earlier, in his combined stops in Dallas and NJ and now this year in Buffalo, Ruff’s teams have consistently been among the worst for goals against (averaging something like 5th or 6th from the bottom in GA over those years). There just isn’t a lot of evidence that Ruff coaches anything that resembles the sort of structured defensive system that people think. If he does, then there is certainly no evidence that he gets his teams to play it consistently well.

I’m not carrying water for Granato here. I just think Ruff’s age, experience, and rougher around the edge exterior, give the impression that he is a hard-nosed defensive tactician, when evidence does not support this.

That's an extremist depiction and I don't think anybody's saying that. I'm not. What I see is an attempt at proper structure and positional play. Defensive responsibility and player support. Layers if you like that modern term. It breaks down when our individuals (who are very used to playing like individuals) try to do too much or do it on their own. That leads to lost pucks and turnovers and not much else. 

We still need to be tougher and win more puck battles, especially along the boards and in the corners, and we need to knock the opposition off the puck more than we do, but the positional support looks like it's improving, and that comes from disciplined play. It's just likely too late. 

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Pimlach said:

The bolded has been foretold.  It has proven to be a problem this season, right out of the starting blocks.   Too much on ice thinking and processing, not enough doing.  

Certainly solid Vet leadership is a need, but it is now time for Thompson and Dahlin and Tuch to provide some of that.    They are the "stars" and if they don't hate all the losing by now that its a problem.  Being popular after practice when hanging out has to come to an end.  These 3 have to start calling out people (within the locker room), and themselves if need be.  

I don't think we will get that from Samuelsson and Cozens is still too young to carry that weight.  Neither of these guys should wear an "A", but they both got big contracts.  

Well yes, that's what we are left with. The Adams plan of growing together and the leadership evolving in the room. Unfortunately most of these guys don't know how to be those veteran leaders and a trial and error methodology just takes too long (if it ever works). It was a flawed plan but we are stuck with it. 

I don't believe these guys learn it in junior as there they are all stars and the elite talents and they are just used to being "good" and it comes easy to them. Pro hockey is much harder and they needed examples to learn from. 

I didn't like hearing Tage talking about all the good things they did after a loss so I'm not sure they get it yet. In any event, the standard has to be higher. Winning really is everything and until that is the mantra and the standard, it won't work well. 

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, LETSTUCHINGO said:

I agree with you, but I don't see leadership qualities in Tage. I actual think he is part of the problem. He is the 2nd best player on our team, I'm not arguing that, but he is horribly inconsistent and it appears to me to be effort. He looked God awful last night and to me his game mirrors the team problem, a lack of consistent mental and physical effort. I understand that he is apparently hurt and that is the reason why he is on the wing now, but come on! He is wearing an "A", at the very least his effort shouldn't be questioned!

I didn't mean to question his leadership other than he and all of them need to reach higher.   

Tage is playing injured right now so that may a problem.  I was not at all happy with his D zone play against Colorado (see the GDT in the 3rd period) but then they disclosed he is hurt and moved him to wing, he cannot take faceoffs right now.  

I know that Tage works hard in the weight room, and in his own personal training.  If anything that example should be a positive.  Not sure how any of them are in the locker room.  That should be up to Lindy to determine.  

[LGR4GM]

I'll update the "is he worth re-signing" McLeod v. Cozens race tomorrow. They are neck and neck

[Believer]

On 1/10/2025 at 10:30 AM, Pimlach said:

don't think we will get that from Samuelsson and Cozens is still too young to carry that weight.  Neither of these guys should wear an "A", but they both got big contracts.  

Agree. Time for Tuch and Thompson to lead and get vocal with teammates.

[Brawndo]

23 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'll update the "is he worth re-signing" McLeod v. Cozens race tomorrow. They are neck and neck

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Wow he hasn’t sucked for the last 3 weeks.  Lets give him an 8 year contract just in case it lasts.

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Wow he hasn’t sucked for the last 3 weeks.  Lets give him an 8 year contract just in case it lasts.

Idk about that, but he's certainly worth signing. 

[Archie Lee]

There are 5 teams currently in a playoff position, whose 2nd line centre has fewer points than McLeod. And McLeod gets zero PP time.

If, hypothetically, the Sabres sent Cozens and Byram to VCR for Pettersson, I think tonight’s lines could work next year, with Pettersson subbed in for Cozens. Pettersson with Thompson on his right wing could be elite. Zucker is a solid 3rd part of the line. McLeod with Tuch and Peterka is a fast, (2/3’s) defensively responsible line with two wingers who can score 30. Krebs at centre with Benson and Quinn is basically what we started the year with as line two, but with Cozens replaced by a better defensive centre and with the line properly slotted as line 3. Kozak has been a nice addition to the bottom 4 forwards. 

Bring Forbort back with Pettersson and pair him or Johnson with Clifton.  Send Joker to SJ with a pick, for Ceci and pair Ceci with Power. Trade Samuelsson and Kulich to Calgary for Andersson, to pair with Dahlin.  Levi replaces Reimer. Get a HC and assistants who know their way around a PP and who don’t coach the Alamo strategy when defending a lead.  Sell out playoff games. 
 

Just dreaming. 

[SABRES 0311]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

There are 5 teams currently in a playoff position, whose 2nd line centre has fewer points than McLeod. And McLeod gets zero PP time.

If, hypothetically, the Sabres sent Cozens and Byram to VCR for Pettersson, I think tonight’s lines could work next year, with Pettersson subbed in for Cozens. Pettersson with Thompson on his right wing could be elite. Zucker is a solid 3rd part of the line. McLeod with Tuch and Peterka is a fast, (2/3’s) defensively responsible line with two wingers who can score 30. Krebs at centre with Benson and Quinn is basically what we started the year with as line two, but with Cozens replaced by a better defensive centre and with the line properly slotted as line 3. Kozak has been a nice addition to the bottom 4 forwards. 

Bring Forbort back with Pettersson and pair him or Johnson with Clifton.  Send Joker to SJ with a pick, for Ceci and pair Ceci with Power. Trade Samuelsson and Kulich to Calgary for Andersson, to pair with Dahlin.  Levi replaces Reimer. Get a HC and assistants who know their way around a PP and who don’t coach the Alamo strategy when defending a lead.  Sell out playoff games. 
 

Just dreaming. 

Cozens’ contract paired with his underachieving play will lower his value. Probably need to add a pick to that deal or retain salary IMO.

[LGR4GM]

Where we started:

Dylan Cozens: 9g, 12a, 21pts, in 42games with a -13

Ryan McLeod: 7g, 14a, 21pts in 42games with a +5

Where we are 2 games later:

Dylan Cozens: 10g, 12a, 22pts, in 44games with a -16

Ryan McLeod: 10g, 14a, 24pts in 44games with a +7

 

Now, before anyone says anything, I'm not yet convinced McLeod is what his numbers show. I mean, the man scored a goal with touching/shooting the puck yesterday. That said, there is strong evidence that while McLeod isn't as good offensively driving play, he is much better defensively which in turn is a way to drive play. For now, I would like to see him stick on the top line but my concern with Cozens remains, every winger that gets Cozens as a center sees their metrics dip. Quinn got better the moment he was moved away from Cozens for example. I personally think there is a coaching issue here and I also think Cozens is trying way to hard to do way too much. It's like they gave him an A and he now thinks he has do everything all the time and he just chases. Further, after watching him live this past week, he is atrocious at winning puck battles. He needs to go spend about 6 months with Zach Benson learning how to win pucks because holy crap is it awful. He has about 0 puck protection or leverage instincts at all. 

Edited January 16 by LGR4GM

[Doohicksie]

15 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

Interesting to see which players are at or above 50%

Dahlin & Byram, no surprise.  Neither is Clifton... he's not a big scoring threat but he does have a nice stretch pass.

Zucker has been hot lately, so no surprise there.  McLeod plays the game right, we all know that.

That leaves Benson and Krebs.  Interesting that they both are > 50% xGF while both having only 14 points apiece and a -2 +/- rating.  The really interesting thing about that is statistically they are nearly twins but everyone loves Benson while a lot of people here hate on Krebs.

Krebs made a critical play late in the Carolina game where, instead of maintaining his position, he sprinted toward the puck carrier and forced a clear when the Sabres were pinned down in their own zone.  He's never gonna be a top line player but he certainly has a place on a good team and I don't think he's part of the problem.

Edited January 16 by Doohicksie

[Stoner]

They should resign McLoud.

[mjd1001]

36 minutes ago, Doohicksie said:

Interesting to see which players are at or above 50%

Dahlin & Byram, no surprise.  Neither is Clifton... he's not a big scoring threat but he does have a nice stretch pass.

Zucker has been hot lately, so no surprise there.  McLeod plays the game right, we all know that.

That leaves Benson and Krebs.  Interesting that they both are > 50% xGF while both having only 14 points apiece and a -2 +/- rating.  The really interesting thing about that is statistically they are nearly twins but everyone loves Benson while a lot of people here hate on Krebs.

Krebs made a critical play late in the Carolina game where, instead of maintaining his position, he sprinted toward the puck carrier and forced a clear when the Sabres were pinned down in their own zone.  He's never gonna be a top line player but he certainly has a place on a good team and I don't think he's part of the problem.

My anti-Cozens comment of the day incoming.

But before I say that, I will say even though I missed more than half the game last night, Cozens did score and I did NOT see any obvious mental mistakes by him. So unless I missed something, Cozens had an above-average game.

Back to my Cozens-bashing.  That xGF list, especially for forwards, doens't seem to include a players shooting percentage as a factor.  So if someone is lower on the list, they may have more of a positive impact on the team if they have a higher shooting percentage (Thompson, Zucker, and Tuch are all in the 14%+ range).  Cozens on the other hand, has the lowest shooting percentage of any forward on the team who has taken more than 25 shots for the entire year. So his low spot on this list is actually worse than it appears because he doesn't convert on as many of his chances, even his 'high danger' chances.

As far as McLeod goes, Ilike him. He went really cold for a while, going over 20 games without scoring a goal. But he is what he is, a guy that can score 16-22 goals for you. To me thats pretty good for him, and when a guy scores in that range, it isn't terribly uncommon to have very long stretches without a goal. 

Edited January 16 by mjd1001

[thewookie1]

3 hours ago, Doohicksie said:

Interesting to see which players are at or above 50%

Dahlin & Byram, no surprise.  Neither is Clifton... he's not a big scoring threat but he does have a nice stretch pass.

Zucker has been hot lately, so no surprise there.  McLeod plays the game right, we all know that.

That leaves Benson and Krebs.  Interesting that they both are > 50% xGF while both having only 14 points apiece and a -2 +/- rating.  The really interesting thing about that is statistically they are nearly twins but everyone loves Benson while a lot of people here hate on Krebs.

Krebs made a critical play late in the Carolina game where, instead of maintaining his position, he sprinted toward the puck carrier and forced a clear when the Sabres were pinned down in their own zone.  He's never gonna be a top line player but he certainly has a place on a good team and I don't think he's part of the problem.

Krebs has far more range on if he's good or not than Benson. Both fulfill many of the effort needs of their position but where Benson excels is in fewer dumb plays or over-playing the puck. Krebs will play great for a handful of games and then usually drop off a bit by trying to do way to much and needs to be pulled back in. Benson isn't perfect, but he seems immune to overconfidence driven gaffes.

[GASabresIUFAN]

They shouldn't re-sign McLeod except maybe as a short-term option for the 3rd/4th lines until someone develop and they should trade Cozens.

We need an intelligent capable GM (aka not Howdy Doody) to re-think the spine of this team.  Long-term Helenius is part of the solution and I'm ok with TNT in the top 6 at center, but in the short-term we have no one other than TNT and he playing through and injury and forced to the wing.  

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

They shouldn't re-sign McLeod except maybe as a short-term option for the 3rd/4th lines until someone develop and they should trade Cozens.

We need an intelligent capable GM (aka not Howdy Doody) to re-think the spine of this team.  Long-term Helenius is part of the solution and I'm ok with TNT in the top 6 at center, but in the short-term we have no one other than TNT and he playing through and injury and forced to the wing.  

A team in desperate need of centers shouldn't re-sign a middle 6 center? 

 

[Carmel Corn]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

They shouldn't re-sign McLeod except maybe as a short-term option for the 3rd/4th lines until someone develop and they should trade Cozens.

We need an intelligent capable GM (aka not Howdy Doody) to re-think the spine of this team.  Long-term Helenius is part of the solution and I'm ok with TNT in the top 6 at center, but in the short-term we have no one other than TNT and he playing through and injury and forced to the wing.  

Develop????  Who???  Someday maybe Östlund, but he’s years away at best.  Helenius???  Not sure he’s a center any more than Kulich, Cozens, etc.  

We have a bunch of center wannabes in our organization, but not many playmakers at all.

[GASabresIUFAN]

41 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

A team in desperate need of centers shouldn't re-sign a middle 6 center? 

 

Maybe just maybe a competent GM can find better options than McLeod and Cozens.  Maybe?

[mjd1001]

57 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

They shouldn't re-sign McLeod except maybe as a short-term option for the 3rd/4th lines until someone develop and they should trade Cozens.

We need an intelligent capable GM (aka not Howdy Doody) to re-think the spine of this team.  Long-term Helenius is part of the solution and I'm ok with TNT in the top 6 at center, but in the short-term we have no one other than TNT and he playing through and injury and forced to the wing.  

I'm thinking McLeod is fine long term as a #3 guy. The problem is the lack of a #2 guy.

The immediate short term solution to the center issue to me is to have Krebs and McLeod be your middle 6 centers. Cozens should be moved out or moved to wing on the 3rd line.  McLeod and Krebs will give you less 'goals' than Cozens, but will more than make up for that with much better play without the puck and Krebs has the POTENTIAL to help line makes score more.  That is not the long term solution though.

Medium term solution would be to aquire a veteran Center that is decent in the middle 6. Good luck with that though....75% of the rest of the league wants a middle-6 center. I was listening to 590 out of Toronto the last few days, and they are so desperate for a center talk is they would be willing to move their 1st AND one of their top prospects.  Other teams would be willing to do the same, and even if you can match that or beat it, the guy you have has to want to come here instead of to a playoff contender.

Long term I'm still fine with McLeod and/or Krebs in the #3 center spot, but you have to hope one of your prospects steps up to be a possible #2 guy, or you move heaven-and-earth in the offseason to trade for/sign one.  You might need to identify the "Zucker" version of a Center on the offseason and basically overpay him to the tune of $2m per year than what anyone else is willing to (Would Pegula be willing to do that though?)

I don't think you are 'fixing' the #2 center spot right now, too much competition for guys (unless you make a HUGE move for Pettersson).  So I think the only 'fix' for now is to have Krebs and McLeod as your middle 2 guys with Cozens moving to wing or out the door.

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm thinking McLeod is fine long term as a #3 guy. The problem is the lack of a #2 guy.

The immediate short term solution to the center issue to me is to have Krebs and McLeod be your middle 6 centers. Cozens should be moved out or moved to wing on the 3rd line.  McLeod and Krebs will give you less 'goals' than Cozens, but will more than make up for that with much better play without the puck and Krebs has the POTENTIAL to help line makes score more.  That is not the long term solution though.

Medium term solution would be to aquire a veteran Center that is decent in the middle 6. Good luck with that though....75% of the rest of the league wants a middle-6 center. I was listening to 590 out of Toronto the last few days, and they are so desperate for a center talk is they would be willing to move their 1st AND one of their top prospects.  Other teams would be willing to do the same, and even if you can match that or beat it, the guy you have has to want to come here instead of to a playoff contender.

Long term I'm still fine with McLeod and/or Krebs in the #3 center spot, but you have to hope one of your prospects steps up to be a possible #2 guy, or you move heaven-and-earth in the offseason to trade for/sign one.  You might need to identify the "Zucker" version of a Center on the offseason and basically overpay him to the tune of $2m per year than what anyone else is willing to (Would Pegula be willing to do that though?)

I don't think you are 'fixing' the #2 center spot right now, too much competition for guys (unless you make a HUGE move for Pettersson).  So I think the only 'fix' for now is to have Krebs and McLeod as your middle 2 guys with Cozens moving to wing or out the door.

McLeod is giving you more goals than Cozens right now. At the same time he's way better defensively. 

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Maybe just maybe a competent GM can find better options than McLeod and Cozens.  Maybe?

I doubt it. Now you're asking for 2 centers, 1 middle 6 and 1 top 6. Idk how you trade for both. 1, sure I could see that. 

I really don't understand your McLeod hate. Guys done everything asked of him. It's a fairly indefensible position to suggest we shouldn't sign RFA McLeod and it's honestly bizarre to double down on it. He's a net positive for this team and for all the faceoff ppl, he wins those. 

Edited January 17 by LGR4GM