Reviewing Adams' Off-season acquisitions at the half way mark

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Lol, are you seriously asking if McLeod is worth re- signing? 

Your take here is bad impo. McLeod should be the 3rd line center but Adams and company are obsessed with making Kulich that. 

Do you really think McLeod is the 3rd line center on a contending hockey team?  Edmonton didn't and trading him to us after signing Adam Henrique.  

I do agree that Adams & Co will re-sign him, but how much and for how long for a guy you should hope ends up, as he is now, a 4th line center.

As to Kulich, the Sabres season is already over from a playoff standpoint.  Might as well see if Kulich has the potential to be a good 3rd line player and I believe he does.  

Edited Sunday at 02:56 AM by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

36 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Do you really think McLeod is the 3rd line center on a contending hockey team?  Edmonton didn't and trading him to us after signing Adam Henrique.  

I do agree that Adams & Co will re-sign him, but how much and for how long for a guy you should hope ends up, as he is now, a 4th line center.

As to Kulich, the Sabres season is already over from a playoff standpoint.  Might as well see if Kulich has the potential to be a good 3rd line player and I believe he does.  

After they contended for a cup with him. 

Edited Sunday at 03:25 AM by LGR4GM

[GASabresIUFAN]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

After they contended for a cup with him. 

And then traded him to the Sabres after they concluded he wasn't good enough to get them over the top.  

He has 6 points with zero goals over his last 21 games.  Kulich has 6g 2a over the same period playing about the same number of minutes.   

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

And then traded him to the Sabres after they concluded he wasn't good enough to get them over the top.  

He has 6 points with zero goals over his last 21 games.  Kulich has 6g 2a over the same period playing about the same number of minutes.   

Get them over the top of a game 7 final they lost 2-1? Come on now this is absurd. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Get them over the top of a game 7 final they lost 2-1? Come on now this is absurd. 

Is it? He was scratched twice in the finals and only put up 4 points in 24 playoff games.  The Oilers rallied from 0-3 down, but it wasn't because of the great contributions from McLeod.  

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Do you really think McLeod is the 3rd line center on a contending hockey team?  Edmonton didn't and trading him to us after signing Adam Henrique.  

I do agree that Adams & Co will re-sign him, but how much and for how long for a guy you should hope ends up, as he is now, a 4th line center.

As to Kulich, the Sabres season is already over from a playoff standpoint.  Might as well see if Kulich has the potential to be a good 3rd line player and I believe he does.  

He’s been awful 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

He’s been awful 

 

Maybe I should downgrade from a C- to a D?

[Two or less]

15 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

McCloud - C+. Moves to a B if Savoie doesn’t crack roster next year either.

FYI- Savoie in last 6 games: 

5 goals + 7 assists. 
 

Kid is becoming a beast. Some teams just seem to know how to develop players better than we do. 

[PerreaultForever]

There have been numerous 4th line players as good or better than ours that have been waived over the course of this season. So everything Adams did there was a waste. 

Zucker is the best and we got him by overpaying him and he will be a fine 3rd line player for a playoff team down the stretch. Adams will try to get a first for him but I doubt he will. I suspect a 2nd so that'll give him a wash on Malentstyn I guess. 

McLeod is okay but not great. He's definitely not as good as Mitts was if that's the intent, but he is better than Krebs. 

Thing is, if he does make any big moves it'll probably be Cozens or Byram or someone like that and that'll open up more holes that need filling so next year it'll be all about Helenius or some other kid. So same problems. 

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is it? He was scratched twice in the finals and only put up 4 points in 24 playoff games.  The Oilers rallied from 0-3 down, but it wasn't because of the great contributions from McLeod.  

They also didn't lose because of him.

Buffalo gave McLeod trash wingers and you are in here telling me he's terrible. He's exactly what he was a 3rd line center, he should have Krebs spot but Krebs is one of the favorites. 

5 hours ago, Two or less said:

FYI- Savoie in last 6 games: 

5 goals + 7 assists. 
 

Kid is becoming a beast. Some teams just seem to know how to develop players better than we do. 

Savoie didn't have a roster spot unless you're getting rid of Benson or Peterka. That was the issue there. 

[Carmel Corn]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

There have been numerous 4th line players as good or better than ours that have been waived over the course of this season. So everything Adams did there was a waste. 

Zucker is the best and we got him by overpaying him and he will be a fine 3rd line player for a playoff team down the stretch. Adams will try to get a first for him but I doubt he will. I suspect a 2nd so that'll give him a wash on Malentstyn I guess. 

McLeod is okay but not great. He's definitely not as good as Mitts was if that's the intent, but he is better than Krebs. 

Thing is, if he does make any big moves it'll probably be Cozens or Byram or someone like that and that'll open up more holes that need filling so next year it'll be all about Helenius or some other kid. So same problems. 

Me thinks McLeod was slated to play the 3C behind TNT and Cozens.  Fast forward to today, I think they’ve tried him everywhere including the 1C and 4C.  It’s the usual Buffalo strategy of throwing enough $hit on the wall in hopes something sticks.

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

They also didn't lose because of him.

Buffalo gave McLeod trash wingers and you are in here telling me he's terrible. He's exactly what he was a 3rd line center, he should have Krebs spot but Krebs is one of the favorites. 

Savoie didn't have a roster spot unless you're getting rid of Benson or Peterka. That was the issue there. 

It’s mind boggling to think they still view Krebs so highly….now he’s what, a 2C?  To me it still seems apparent that he’s playing so much because GMKA wants to somehow convince his critics that he won the Eichel trade.

[LTS]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

And then traded him to the Sabres after they concluded he wasn't good enough to get them over the top.  

He has 6 points with zero goals over his last 21 games.  Kulich has 6g 2a over the same period playing about the same number of minutes.   

Just a reminder... the Oilers are the team that decided Jeff Skinner was going to help them get over the top and then allowed two players to walk in RFA that would have helped them as well.

I believe their decision making is highly flawed.

Kulich is playing with better scoring teammates than McLeod as well.

The whole idea of Malenstyn, NAK, Lafferty being the "improvement" to the 4th line is really not appropriate. They were the replacement of the 4th line. I'm not sure it was ever stated they were improving the 4th line, they just wanted speed.  At least in that regard, they have it.

But comparison's to last years 4th line should not be done with the idea that the Sabres could have retained last year's 4th line.  Okposo was retiring. Girgensons was a UFA and walked. Robinson was also free to walk I believe. So... none of them were necessarily going to be here (and why would we expect them to be if they had a choice?)

But.. it doesn't change the fact they don't produce points.  Then again, this team doesn't produce points either.

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, Two or less said:

FYI- Savoie in last 6 games: 

5 goals + 7 assists. 
 

Kid is becoming a beast. Some teams just seem to know how to develop players better than we do. 

Savoie is on pace for 62pts in 72 AHL games.

Rosen is on pace for 62pts in 69 AHL games. 

[Archie Lee]

Prior to his demotion to line 4, McLeod was playing in the top 9, with better linemates. I don’t know why he was demoted to line 4. His demotion occurred when Tage came back, right at the start of the losing streak. I’m not linking the events, but the demotion seemed odd to me.

Regardless, I’m completely done with critiquing players. What a player is for the Sabres and what he is elsewhere are not the same thing. We are a poverty franchise and there are few players who thrive here at a level greater than they would elsewhere. The exception appears to be Zucker, who will be first out the door likely.

I saw an article in the Atlantic by the Oilers writer suggesting that the Oilers trade for Jokiharju and that such a deal would be a potential fleecing. The logic was that Jokiharju has likely been misused in Buffalo and would come very cheap. I’m not sure they are right on Jokiharju, but would it shock anyone if he went to a contender and thrived in an appropriate role?  That’s the perception that exists of the Sabres. In less than 2 years, Adams has taken us from the league’s most exciting-young-up-and-coming-team, to Ralph Krueger level ineptitude. No player on this team is an issue.  

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, Two or less said:

FYI- Savoie in last 6 games: 

5 goals + 7 assists. 
 

Kid is becoming a beast. Some teams just seem to know how to develop players better than we do. 

In the 10 games before your cutoff, Savoie had 4a... total in 10 games. No goals. His current 4 game point streak is double the longest previous he's had (2 games). Is it possible something clicked and Savoie is a juggernaut? Sure, but it's not likely. 

[JP51]

Pretty true analysis i think with the exception of zucker any trades he makes make us worse and FA he signs cost us money and produce very little result. This is a horrific combination I was relieved when the trade with Pittsburgh was a big nothing burger 🍔 I was scared to see what havoc he might have reeked 

[Flashsabre]

From the Athletic article grading all organizations this season:

Buffalo Sabres: F

The Sabres were supposed to be in win-now mode, ready to take the next step under new coach Lindy Ruff. Instead, they are in last place in the Eastern Conference after a 13-game winless streak derailed their season. It’s tough to justify anything other than a failing grade for a team that had 91 points two seasons ago and is on track to regress for the second straight season. — Matthew Fairburn

[Jorcus]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

Prior to his demotion to line 4, McLeod was playing in the top 9, with better linemates. I don’t know why he was demoted to line 4. His demotion occurred when Tage came back, right at the start of the losing streak. I’m not linking the events, but the demotion seemed odd to me.

Regardless, I’m completely done with critiquing players. What a player is for the Sabres and what he is elsewhere are not the same thing. We are a poverty franchise and there are few players who thrive here at a level greater than they would elsewhere. The exception appears to be Zucker, who will be first out the door likely.

I saw an article in the Atlantic by the Oilers writer suggesting that the Oilers trade for Jokiharju and that such a deal would be a potential fleecing. The logic was that Jokiharju has likely been misused in Buffalo and would come very cheap. I’m not sure they are right on Jokiharju, but would it shock anyone if he went to a contender and thrived in an appropriate role?  That’s the perception that exists of the Sabres. In less than 2 years, Adams has taken us from the league’s most exciting-young-up-and-coming-team, to Ralph Krueger level ineptitude. No player on this team is an issue.  

 

 

A lot of whether a player thrives or dies comes back to systems and coaching vs what that player is good at doing. If used correctly, Why is Jokiharju is in purgatory? I have no idea other than he is not a Ruff guy or can't play the Ruff system. What is the Ruff system anyway? He acts like he wants a transition system but gets upset when it leads to increased turnovers and lack of possession. I really don't think a lot of this team knows what Ruff wants them to do. Maybe they are just not able to do what he wants them to do. I agree that for the most part it is not the players.   

[Flashsabre]

From Matt Bove: 

[Bové] “This is game 40 for the Sabres. One away from the halfway point of the season. They have won 14 games. On November 26th they were 11-9-1 and in a playoff spot”

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

Prior to his demotion to line 4, McLeod was playing in the top 9, with better linemates. I don’t know why he was demoted to line 4. His demotion occurred when Tage came back, right at the start of the losing streak. I’m not linking the events, but the demotion seemed odd to me.

Regardless, I’m completely done with critiquing players. What a player is for the Sabres and what he is elsewhere are not the same thing. We are a poverty franchise and there are few players who thrive here at a level greater than they would elsewhere. The exception appears to be Zucker, who will be first out the door likely.

I saw an article in the Atlantic by the Oilers writer suggesting that the Oilers trade for Jokiharju and that such a deal would be a potential fleecing. The logic was that Jokiharju has likely been misused in Buffalo and would come very cheap. I’m not sure they are right on Jokiharju, but would it shock anyone if he went to a contender and thrived in an appropriate role?  That’s the perception that exists of the Sabres. In less than 2 years, Adams has taken us from the league’s most exciting-young-up-and-coming-team, to Ralph Krueger level ineptitude. No player on this team is an issue.  

Yes, I said this earlier.  I’m not giving McLoed, Beck, and the others F grades when this team is run by clowns.  All the line shuffling is hurting, not helping, their record proves it.   Ruff is shuffling lines because he doesn’t have enough NHL players on the roster.  

McLoed showed he was a 3C in this league before he came here and he started out just fine playing with Greenway and Benson/Zucker.  His offensive game is not as good as Mitts, but defensively he is better in certain facets of the game.  He is not a guy anyone expected to carry a big scoring load.  He has played on every line and with every forward.  This shuffling is not helping anyone, it’s just becoming more desperate    

This team is extremely weak at center.  I still do not believe Tage is a center, and I think that the concept of playing him at center to give him “more room” is garbage.  That is a youth hockey coaches mentality to showcase his best player.  In the NHL he is not strong enough defensively to play center, and that part of his game is not improving.  He is not a puck carrier playmaker.  He is a shooter/finisher that should be a top line winger.  

Cozens is a 3rd line player at this point. 
McLoed is a 3/4.  
Krebs is a spare part. 
 

This roster stinks. The 91 point aberration is long over.  
 

Edited Sunday at 04:28 PM by Pimlach

[Archie Lee]

9 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

 

 

A lot of whether a player thrives or dies comes back to systems and coaching vs what that player is good at doing. If used correctly, Why is Jokiharju is in purgatory? I have no idea other than he is not a Ruff guy or can't play the Ruff system. What is the Ruff system anyway? He acts like he wants a transition system but gets upset when it leads to increased turnovers and lack of possession. I really don't think a lot of this team knows what Ruff wants them to do. Maybe they are just not able to do what he wants them to do. I agree that for the most part it is not the players.   

Re: Ruff’s system, here is where his teams finished in goals against in the years since he left Buffalo:  16th, 26th, 20th, 29th, 28th, 29th, 10th, 27th. This year we are 28th thus far. Average is 24th out of 30-32 teams.  There are some factors there out of his control, but it is fair to say that Ruff does not have a system that consistently produces better defensive results than the sum of the parts he is provided with. On balance, I would say his teams are significantly worse at playing defence than average. Pegula and Adams chose poorly. 

[Flashsabre]

You know the team is a complete dumpster fire when it is forcing Harrington to admit he was wrong about something.😝

[Pimlach]

9 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Re: Ruff’s system, here is where his teams finished in goals against in the years since he left Buffalo:  16th, 26th, 20th, 29th, 28th, 29th, 10th, 27th. This year we are 28th thus far. Average is 24th out of 30-32 teams.  There are some factors there out of his control, but it is fair to say that Ruff does not have a system that consistently produces better defensive results than the sum of the parts he is provided with. On balance, I would say his teams are significantly worse at playing defence than average. Pegula and Adams chose poorly. 

They picked a guy they know and like. It was easy.  It had marketing flair.  What could go wrong?  
 

Berube didn’t get a call to interview.  He is making the Leafs a better team though. 

[Archie Lee]

48 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

You know the team is a complete dumpster fire when it is forcing Harrington to admit he was wrong about something.😝

Still shows the sway Ruff has over some, including Harrington.  The Sabres are on pace to drop from 84 to 68 points.  Yes the roster is not good enough (it is more too young and inexperienced than lacking talent, but that is another topic).  The team has regressed across the board under Ruff. He will get a pass from many though and the players and Adams will get most of the blame (Pegula/Adams should get almost all of the blame). 

[Two or less]

6 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

In the 10 games before your cutoff, Savoie had 4a... total in 10 games. No goals. His current 4 game point streak is double the longest previous he's had (2 games). Is it possible something clicked and Savoie is a juggernaut? Sure, but it's not likely. 

He's a 21 year old, why wouldn't it be likely?