Long Term: Byram or Power

[stinky finger]

9 hours ago, Night Train said:

Power, Samuelsson, Cozens, Quinn...they could all be traded.  

Byram  is tons better than Power and was a great acquisition for Mitts. So many here panned that initially. He should be paid and move out the overpaid. 

I liked the Byram/Mitts trade initially and more so now. Moving Power seems prudent. 

[Thorner]

@Crusader1969are you giving me an X for any reason other than spite? Your central argument seems to be to want to keep both and that’s what I said I wanted 

Byram’s stats are insanely inflated by playing with Dahlin, and quite poor away, we know Power is the better asset long term, but being able to play well WITH Dahlin is still an asset and for a team needing for make the playoffs zero reason not to retain Byram unless we are upgrading in a trade 

Edited February 10 by Thorner

[Crusader1969]

16 hours ago, Thorner said:

@Crusader1969are you giving me an X for any reason other than spite? Your central argument seems to be to want to keep both and that’s what I said I wanted 

Byram’s stats are insanely inflated by playing with Dahlin, and quite poor away, we know Power is the better asset long term, but being able to play well WITH Dahlin is still an asset and for a team needing for make the playoffs zero reason not to retain Byram unless we are upgrading in a trade 

Changed to thumbs up.   We are 100% in agreement 

[Crusader1969]

16 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Remember having Dahlin Power and Byram has yielded the top scoring D threesome in the NHL, but what has that done for the team?  The PP still stinks and the team is in last place in the Eastern conference.  

You trade Power away to not only add defensive D, which are a much bigger need now than a 3rd offensive D, but also to free up cap space to keep vets like Zucker and Greenway.

Truthfully I'm not at all worried about 3 years from now.  I want to be a playoff team next season and adding defensive D will bring us much closer to that goal than keeping Power.  Also by 3 years from now, Novikov, Komarov and Strbak will likely be on the Sabres hopefully giving us cheap and effective defenders who actually play defense to go with Dahlin and Byram.   

Again, you are living in a dreamworld IMHO

my whole point is that you can not get backs defensive defender, at least not a proven one, because the Sabres are on every players no trade list  

better to work with Power to get him to the point that he is an avg defender   He is already very good in translation and offence   
also, if you are trading Power   What's the plan ? Seperate Dahlin and Byram?   Who plays with them? You bring one guy back in the Power deal, but you need two   

 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

36 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Again, you are living in a dreamworld IMHO

my whole point is that you can not get backs defensive defender, at least not a proven one, because the Sabres are on every players no trade list  

better to work with Power to get him to the point that he is an avg defender   He is already very good in translation and offence   
also, if you are trading Power   What's the plan ? Seperate Dahlin and Byram?   Who plays with them? You bring one guy back in the Power deal, but you need two   

 

 

1. There are hundreds of players in the NHL without trade limitations.  

2. If Adams or his successor doesn't get players who can actually play defense than this rebuild 3.0 will continue to fail

3. If Adams can't convince the necessary players to come here, than we need to replace him.  

This isn't fantasy land, it's how a good team should be managed.  Waiting another 3 years for Power to become average defensively while wasting $8.35 mill a year on the player is simply terrible management of the roster and the cap.  

Edited February 11 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

Who's style of play do you want? Byram or Power?

[GASabresIUFAN]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Who's style of play do you want? Byram or Power?

Byram.  I think his O skill set is just as good as Power's. I think he is a better skater. He is obviously more physical (so is the guy in the mailroom) and he is working hard on improving defensively.  

 

Edited February 11 by GASabresIUFAN

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

Again, you are living in a dreamworld IMHO

my whole point is that you can not get backs defensive defender, at least not a proven one, because the Sabres are on every players no trade list  

better to work with Power to get him to the point that he is an avg defender   He is already very good in translation and offence   
also, if you are trading Power   What's the plan ? Seperate Dahlin and Byram?   Who plays with them? You bring one guy back in the Power deal, but you need two   

 

 

Power doesn’t have “it”. Work with him all you want. You’re come up empty and unfulfilled. Running it back is lunacy. 

[Thorner]

It’s not just defenders making our defence bad. It’s also the combined effort of our entire F group and the times our goalies revert back into pumpkins. The TEAM DEFENCE sucks.

Now, I’m not saying Power doesn’t play his part in that but what people are missing is *he is supposed to.* He is a 22 year old fledgling defender. Remember Dahlin? There are growing pains

i cannot stress this enough: please do not get fooled again. It’s insane that sabres fans most often seem to be the ones incapable of maintaining context, considering we are the ones going through it.

WARNING

DO 

NOT 

IGNORE

THE

CONTEXT

=

Power struggling defensively at 22 isn’t unusual. Icing the youngest team in hockey every single year is unusual.
 

Do not throw the baby out with the bath water. Power WILL figure it out. He will be VERY good. 

Running it back? Do not make the mistake of running back the dealing of Reinhart and Eichel as they were entering their primes 

Cassidy didn’t “unlock” Eichel. Eichel unlocked Eichel. Eichel turning 24 unlocked Eichel. Playing on a competent team with an eye on winning unlocked Eichel 

Edited February 11 by Thorner

[Thorner]

Maybe try spending to the damn cap before trading your first overall pick 

MAYBE

[Archie Lee]

On 2/10/2025 at 2:57 PM, Crusader1969 said:

Ok. I'll bite .  Give me an RHD and. LHD to fill out the top 4 

Well, I already did when I replied to your earlier posting of the Lysowski quote.  I pointed out the following:

"...you look at the Florida Panthers and see Mikkola and Kulikov as the 2nd pair.  Or Dallas and a right side of Lyubushkin, Dumba, and Ceci.  Or Tampa and Raddysh on pair 1.  Or Winnipeg with Samberg on pair two with Logan Stanley and Colin Miller as pair 3."

I'm not saying we should go and get any of those players specifically.  What I am saying is that every year teams make the playoffs, and in some cases have deep playoff runs, with players of this quality playing in their top-4.  Often such players don't have trade protection.  In some cases it isn't about being more talented, it is about being more experienced, or about having better support from forwards, or being better coached, or having better goaltending.  

Rasmus Dahlin is a legit top 10-15 D-man in the NHL.  Three 3 years ago Bowen Byram played 2nd pair minutes on the Stanley Cup Champion. If Owen Power decided tomorrow to retire from hockey, the Sabres would still have ½ of a top-4 defense core, that is legitimately Stanley Cup capable.  And, I'm just talking playoffs here. Any person worthy of being a legit NHL GM, could start an off-season with Dahlin, Byram, Connor Clifton, and Ryan Johnson, and piece together 3-4 additional d-men that an NHL team could make the playoffs with.  

Edited February 12 by Archie Lee

[Thorner]

3 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Well, I already did when I replied to your earlier posting of the Lysowski quote.  I pointed out the following:

"...you look at the Florida Panthers and see Mikkola and Kulikov as the 2nd pair.  Or Dallas and a right side of Lyubushkin, Dumba, and Ceci.  Or Tampa and Raddysh on pair 1.  Or Winnipeg with Samberg on pair two with Logan Stanley and Colin Miller as pair 3."

I'm not saying we should go and get any of those players specifically.  What I am saying is that every year teams make the playoffs, and in come cases have deep playoff runs, without having a true, legit, unquestionable, top 2, top 4, top 6 D. In some cases it isn't about being more talented, it is about being more experienced, or about having better support from forwards, or being better coached, or having better goaltending.  

Rasmus Dahlin is a legit top 10-15 D-man in the NHL.  Three 3 years ago Bowen Byram played 2nd pair minutes on the Stanley Cup Champion. If Owen Power decided tomorrow to retire from hockey, the Sabres would still have ½ of a top-4 defense core, that is legitimately Stanley Cup capable.  And, I'm just talking playoffs here. Any person worthy of being a legit NHL GM, could start an off-season with Dahlin, Power, Connor Clifton, and Ryan Johnson, and piece together 3-4 additional d-men that an NHL team could make the playoffs with.  

Yup, team D 

Stanley freakin sucks, even ask Ducky 

Edited February 11 by Thorner

[GASabresIUFAN]

24 minutes ago, Thorner said:

It’s not just defenders making our defence bad. It’s also the combined effort of our entire F group and the times our goalies revert back into pumpkins. The TEAM DEFENCE sucks.

Now, I’m not saying Power doesn’t play his part in that but what people are missing is *he is supposed to.* He is a 22 year old fledgling defender. Remember Dahlin? There are growing pains

i cannot stress this enough: please do not get fooled again. It’s insane that sabres fans most often seem to be the ones incapable of maintaining context, considering we are the ones going through it.

WARNING

DO 

NOT 

IGNORE

THE

CONTEXT

=

Power struggling defensively at 22 isn’t unusual. Icing the youngest team in hockey every single year is unusual.
 

Do not throw the baby out with the bath water. Power WILL figure it out. He will be VERY good. 

Running it back? Do not make the mistake of running back the dealing of Reinhart and Eichel as they were entering their primes 

Cassidy didn’t “unlock” Eichel. Eichel unlocked Eichel. Eichel turning 24 unlocked Eichel. Playing on a competent team with an eye on winning unlocked Eichel 

But we weren’t paying Dahlin 8.35 million to suck.  We also weren’t in win now mode.  Dahlin’s 2nd contract was 3 years at 6 mill which was much closer to what he had earned.  
 

 

 

[Thorner]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

But we weren’t paying Dahlin 8.35 million to suck.  We also weren’t in win now mode.  Dahlin’s 2nd contract was 3 years at 6 mill which was much closer to what he had earned.  
 

 

 

So he’s been coated in Kevyn Adams’ bath water*. So what. I’m not losing the asset cause howdy doody** effed up his contract 

*think about it. Visually. I can only paint so clear a picture, you need to envision the bath water scenario thoroughly to take my meaning.

 

**how does it feel to know you’ve created a meme that will unquestionably stand the test of time around here? 

Edited February 11 by Thorner

[GASabresIUFAN]

17 minutes ago, Thorner said:

So he’s been coated in Kevyn Adams’ bath water*. So what. I’m not losing the asset cause howdy doody** effed up his contract 

*think about it. Visually. I can only paint so clear a picture, you need to envision the bath water scenario thoroughly to take my meaning.

 

**how does it feel to know you’ve created a meme that will unquestionably stand the test of time around here? 

Adams is Howdy Doody.  However, I don’t understand the rest of your post.  Yes Adams f’d up his contract, but that contract is now a huge underperforming asset to the team no different than Cozens or Samuelsson.  I get that you love Power’s potential, but unfortunately that potential may never be realized and now he is at best our 3rd best blueliner (I won’t call him a defenseman since he can’t play defense).  Are we really going to continue to pay him 8.35 and hope he eventually doesn’t stink defensively or can we trade him, get out from under his terrible contract, and hopefully turn him into a top 6 playmaking center or two top 4 defensive D.  
 

Which move makes the Sabres better now?

1) keeping Power and hoping he gets better

2) trading him for a top 6 center

or 3) trading him and getting 2 upgrades on defense.  

To me the answer is obvious.

It’s also not like no. 1 pick D haven’t been traded before.  Erik Johnson (and other assets) was traded by St Louis at 22 year old to Colorado for Shattenkirk and other assets.  

[Thorner]

5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Adams is Howdy Doody.  However, I don’t understand the rest of your post.  Yes Adams f’d up his contract, but that contract is now a huge underperforming asset to the team no different than Cozens or Samuelsson.  I get that you love Power’s potential, but unfortunately that potential may never be realized and now he is at best our 3rd best blueliner (I won’t call him a defenseman since he can’t play defense).  Are we really going to continue to pay him 8.35 and hope he eventually doesn’t stink defensively or can we trade him, get out from under his terrible contract, and hopefully turn him into a top 6 playmaking center or two top 4 defensive D.  
 

Which move makes the Sabres better now?

1) keeping Power and hoping he gets better

2) trading him for a top 6 center

or 3) trading him and getting 2 upgrades on defense.  

To me the answer is obvious.

It’s also not like no. 1 pick D haven’t been traded before.  Erik Johnson (and other assets) was traded by St Louis at 22 year old to Colorado for Shattenkirk and other assets.  

Meh. 

I was right about Samuelsson 

Im sure I’m right about Power, too

If theres some sort of hockey trade where we are getting the (win now) value back we felt Power was worth, the day we drafted him, sure. hockey trades are always a fine consideration 

His contract isn’t an issue. We don’t spend to the cap! Meaningless. Even if we did, it’s skyrocketing 

Edited February 11 by Thorner

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Thorner said:

His contract isn’t an issue. We don’t spend to the cap! Meaningless. Even if we did, it’s skyrocketing 

Actually his contract is central to the issue.  His contract is over 10% of our internal cap, but we are only getting 50% value for the money.  Even if the cap goes up, his contract remains a huge burden, especially if Pegula refuses to spend to the cap.  If Power was being paid 4-5 million we could afford to be more patient with him like we were with Dahlin, however that's not the case.

I also have never advocated trading Power for picks or prospects.  I want NHL players back for him and I think that type of trade is possible.  

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Actually his contract is central to the issue.  His contract is over 10% of our internal cap, but we are only getting 50% value for the money.  Even if the cap goes up, his contract remains a huge burden, especially if Pegula refuses to spend to the cap.  If Power was being paid 4-5 million we could afford to be more patient with him like we were with Dahlin, however that's not the case.

I also have never advocated trading Power for picks or prospects.  I want NHL players back for him and I think that type of trade is possible.  

There’s no point fandangling on any of this if Pegula never spends to the cap. There’s no sense worrying about fitting things under an internal budget: the internal budget means poop is in store regardless 

Power’s deal isnt a burden on any team serious about winning. There, fixed it 

If we aren’t serious about winning, it doesn’t matter anyways

[Carmel Corn]

2 hours ago, Thorner said:

There’s no point fandangling on any of this if Pegula never spends to the cap. There’s no sense worrying about fitting things under an internal budget: the internal budget means poop is in store regardless 

Power’s deal isnt a burden on any team serious about winning. There, fixed it 

If we aren’t serious about winning, it doesn’t matter anyways

Perhaps, but Pegula and GMKA need to come clean and be transparent about all this.  There hasn’t been a public statement IMHO about an internal cap and Howdy Doody Adams sounds like a broken record record saying that daddy Terry provides everything the team needs (bunch of BS!).  I agree with you that there is an internal cap…but TP and GMKA are too cowardly to go on the record about it.

Edited February 12 by Carmel Corn

[Thorner]

Loll Howdy Doody

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Loll Howdy Doody

[Thorner]

[Broken Ankles]

18 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Is “Howdy Doody Time” defined  as

a.) giving an egregious contract extension in years and AAV to a player worthy of a bridge. 

or

b.) over paying in a trade (8 OA for a third line center or 43 OA for a 4th line grinder)

or

c.) Drafting an undersized forward in the first round. 
 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

Is “Howdy Doody Time” defined  as

a.) giving an egregious contract extension in years and AAV to a player worthy of a bridge. 

or

b.) over paying in a trade (8 OA for a third line center or 43 OA for a 4th line grinder)

or

c.) Drafting an undersized forward in the first round. 
 

 

What about avoiding actually fixing obvious team needs?

[LGR4GM]

23 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

Is “Howdy Doody Time” defined  as

c.) Drafting an undersized forward in the first round. 
 

 

Zach Benson will eat you. Also Adams didn't draft him, that's 100% the analytics team. 

15 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What about avoiding actually fixing obvious team needs?

It's not about addressing team needs, it's about the friends we made along the way.