Long Term: Byram or Power

[Broken Ankles]

20 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

This may be my personal bias against Cozens speaking here, but I think Cozens is more of a concern than Power.

I see Power making 'bad' plays without the puck, vs Cozens making 'brutal' plays with it. Also, I'm willing (a bit) to give Power a tad bit more leash and time to improve. Cozens has been around longer so his leash is a lot shorter.

   Power has shown offensive prowess in the O-zone, which I agree, considering his age gives him a longer leash.  But both have huge cap hits making their existence unacceptable. Both have been putrid in their own end. If either of these two were bridged, Cozens with a Samson like 2 year deal  and Power with a Dahlin $6m AAV it might mitigate my frustrations. 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Broken Ankles said:

   Power has shown offensive prowess in the O-zone, which I agree, considering his age gives him a longer leash.  But both have huge cap hits making their existence unacceptable. Both have been putrid in their own end. If either of these two were bridged, Cozens with a Samson like 2 year deal  and Power with a Dahlin $6m AAV it might mitigate my frustrations. 

Those two contracts were afraid-of-them-going-elsewhere-if-we-don’t-lock-them-up deals.

[Sabres73]

I'm in favour of keeping both of them, as well as Cozens. Trade Henri, Lafferty, Rosen, draft picks - but not our young core.

[quill]

I like them both, but if I had to choose one to stay here it would be Power.  We're going to need another defenseman besides Dahlin who can carry the puck out of our own end by skating around an opposing player or two without turning the puck over, and I think Power will soon develop into that type of player. He isn't the fastest skater, but he isn't the slowest either. I've seen him turn on the boosters at times, at least in short spurts when he needs to. Byram has been giving the puck away almost as often as Thompson does whenever he's in close quarters, and his previous history of head injuries is cause for concern.  Both have good potential, but I think Power is the more talented of the two.

[LGR4GM]

9 hours ago, quill said:

I like them both, but if I had to choose one to stay here it would be Power.  We're going to need another defenseman besides Dahlin who can carry the puck out of our own end by skating around an opposing player or two without turning the puck over, and I think Power will soon develop into that type of player. He isn't the fastest skater, but he isn't the slowest either. I've seen him turn on the boosters at times, at least in short spurts when he needs to. Byram has been giving the puck away almost as often as Thompson does whenever he's in close quarters, and his previous history of head injuries is cause for concern.  Both have good potential, but I think Power is the more talented of the two.

Not that this stat is well kept but Hockey Ref has Byram at 39giveaways and 13takeaways and Power at 37giveaways and 15takeaways

If I am being completely honest here... I might consider moving both depending on the return I can get. 

Edit: Btw, Dahlin has 40gives and 14takes

[Jorcus]

16 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Not that this stat is well kept but Hockey Ref has Byram at 39giveaways and 13takeaways and Power at 37giveaways and 15takeaways

If I am being completely honest here... I might consider moving both depending on the return I can get. 

Edit: Btw, Dahlin has 40gives and 14takes

The takeaway numbers could be better but the Giveaway numbers are not bad when compared to the other good full time defenders in the league. 

[Night Train]

Power stands in his own crease and watches opposing players screen and score on his goalie. Next to no interest in physical play. Poor on Defense most games. 

A guy with his size ? That is absolutely maddening. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

34 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Not that this stat is well kept but Hockey Ref has Byram at 39giveaways and 13takeaways and Power at 37giveaways and 15takeaways

If I am being completely honest here... I might consider moving both depending on the return I can get. 

Edit: Btw, Dahlin has 40gives and 14takes

This is an issue across the entire Sabres lineup.  

Power needs to go.  I was watching the highlights from last night and Wash scored the tying goal because Power refused to physically engage the guy he was covering in front of the net.  Had he tied him up as he is supposed to do, the Sabres might win the game in regulation.  

What can we get for Power? 

 

[Pimlach]

On 1/4/2025 at 1:45 AM, Sabres73 said:

I would keep both if possible, as we have other assets available to deal. No knee-jerk trades that don't make us better immediately as well as the next several years.

So how much do you pay Byram to keep him?  You also have Quinn and Peterka that need contracts. 

Edited 18 hours ago by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

On 1/5/2025 at 10:18 AM, Crusader1969 said:

I'm so tired of people blaming a 22 year old player  for the teams issues

Once he get traded to a legit NHL franchise and is  paired with a RHD vet that complements his game, he will flourish

Then all the people here , who constantly trash him, will wonder why that version of Power was never in Buffalo  

 

 

 

Most of us here have been begging adam’s to get a RHD partner for Power.  Adam’s tried to get Pesce, but couldn’t do it. 

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

So how much do you pay Byram to keep him?  You also have Quinn and Peterka that need contracts. 

Well Quinn is getting 3x2 at best. Peterka maybe 4x2 or something so you we have lots of money. Byram, 6x5? I ain't going much higher than that. 

Basically I am not worried about the cap because you can always trade someone and Buffalo technically has another 8mil coming off the cap with Zucker and Greenway UFAs.

14 minutes ago, Night Train said:

Power stands in his own crease and watches opposing players screen and score on his goalie. Next to no interest in physical play. Poor on Defense most games. 

A guy with his size ? That is absolutely maddening. 

He plays almost exactly how he did in college. He uses his reach to get pucks and move them up ice but his physical game is meh at best. 

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Well Quinn is getting 3x2 at best. Peterka maybe 4x2 or something so you we have lots of money. Byram, 6x5? I ain't going much higher than that. 

Basically I am not worried about the cap because you can always trade someone and Buffalo technically has another 8mil coming off the cap with Zucker and Greenway UFAs.

Adam’s offering two year deals?  What a novel idea. Has he done that yet for one of his drafted prospects?  

Byram might take 6, or he might prefer to win.  

Are they replacing Zucker and Greenway with more rookies?  

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Adam’s offering two year deals?  What a novel idea. Has he done that yet for one of his drafted prospects?  

Byram might take 6, or he might prefer to win.  

Are they replacing Zucker and Greenway with more rookies?  

[Ctaeth]

Byram has looked good... as the partner of Rasmus Dahlin.  Whoever Dahlin is paired with usually gets a boost, because he's just really good.  When Byram isn't paired with Dahlin (see long losing streak and all of his time prior to being paired with Dahlin on the first pair), he doesn't look great.

Dahlin/Byram:  51% expected goals for (350 minutes on ice)

Byram/X (X is anyone but Dahlin):  ~42% expected goals for every pairing (~350 minutes on ice total with players aside from Dahlin)

 

Power, on the other hand, doesn't have the benefit of playing with Dahlin but has clear defensive deficiencies.  He seems more capable of carrying another partner when not paired with Dahlin.  His most frequent partner has been Jokiharju 🤢, but they have held their own (~200 minutes on ice w/ 46% expected goals).  For what it's worth, Dahlin/Power have about 80 minutes on ice together with a 65% expected goals for.  The Dahlin/Power number may be bloated though because I assume that they are being thrown out there when the Sabres are losing and the other team is trying to turtle/protect a lead.  Lastly, the Byram/Power pairing has been fairly ineffective as well:  

Power/Jokiharju:  46% expected goals (170 minutes on ice)

Power/Dahlin:  64% expected goals (60 minutes on ice)

Power/Byram:  43% expected goals for (200 minutes on ice)

Byram/Jokiharju:  43% expected goals (90 minutes on ice.  including this one since Joki has been paired with Power a lot)

 

IMO, if you want someone that can carry a second line that's probably Power.  If you are just looking to pair someone with Dahlin, then Byram is your guy.

 

Obviously, it's not that simple and there are a whole bunch of other factors besides their play thus far:

1.  Does Byram truly want to be a true #1 defenseman as has been reported? 

2.  Is Byram willing to stay in Buffalo long term? 

3.  How much would Byram sign here for?  Is it less than Power's contract (it ought to be)?  How much so?

4.  Do you think Power can improve his net front game/defensive without sacrificing much offensively? 

5.  How are they on the second power play unit?  the numbers for the pairings were even strength numbers I believe

6.  What can you get for either one on the open market?  

7.  Can Byram improve and eventually be able to carry another defender on the second line so we aren't so top heavy on defense?

credit to moneypuck for stats

[LTS]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Not that this stat is well kept but Hockey Ref has Byram at 39giveaways and 13takeaways and Power at 37giveaways and 15takeaways

If I am being completely honest here... I might consider moving both depending on the return I can get. 

Edit: Btw, Dahlin has 40gives and 14takes

Interesting.. went over to the site for some relative information.

Power is third on the team in takeaways behind Tuch (23) and Clifton (18). Dahlin is 5th and Byram is 6th.
Clifton leads in giveaways at 42, Dahlin is 2nd, Byram 3rd.  Power is 6th with Zucker and Cozens ahead of him.

I checked out a few other teams to get a sense if its normalish.

Vegas:
Shea Theodore:     22T - 59G
Noah Hanifin:         17T - 57G
Jack Eichel:           16T - 39G
Alex Pietrangelo - 14T - 58G

Winnipeg:
Mark Schiefele:     14T - 54G
Neal Pionk:             19T - 48G

Colorado:
Nathan MacKinnon: 13T - 70G
Josh Manson:           13T - 54G
Cale Makar:              34T - 53G (this is quite impressive given the overalls I've been checking)

NJ Devils:
Dougie Hamilton: 16T - 67G
Jack Hughes:       16T - 53G
Brett Pesce:          13T - 28G

Overall it seems that the Sabres players aren't completely out of line against other teams.  It's interesting to look at.

 

 

 

[Archie Lee]

3 hours ago, Ctaeth said:

Byram has looked good... as the partner of Rasmus Dahlin.  Whoever Dahlin is paired with usually gets a boost, because he's just really good.  When Byram isn't paired with Dahlin (see long losing streak and all of his time prior to being paired with Dahlin on the first pair), he doesn't look great.

Dahlin/Byram:  51% expected goals for (350 minutes on ice)

Byram/X (X is anyone but Dahlin):  ~42% expected goals for every pairing (~350 minutes on ice total with players aside from Dahlin)

 

Power, on the other hand, doesn't have the benefit of playing with Dahlin but has clear defensive deficiencies.  He seems more capable of carrying another partner when not paired with Dahlin.  His most frequent partner has been Jokiharju 🤢, but they have held their own (~200 minutes on ice w/ 46% expected goals).  For what it's worth, Dahlin/Power have about 80 minutes on ice together with a 65% expected goals for.  The Dahlin/Power number may be bloated though because I assume that they are being thrown out there when the Sabres are losing and the other team is trying to turtle/protect a lead.  Lastly, the Byram/Power pairing has been fairly ineffective as well:  

Power/Jokiharju:  46% expected goals (170 minutes on ice)

Power/Dahlin:  64% expected goals (60 minutes on ice)

Power/Byram:  43% expected goals for (200 minutes on ice)

Byram/Jokiharju:  43% expected goals (90 minutes on ice.  including this one since Joki has been paired with Power a lot)

 

IMO, if you want someone that can carry a second line that's probably Power.  If you are just looking to pair someone with Dahlin, then Byram is your guy.

 

Obviously, it's not that simple and there are a whole bunch of other factors besides their play thus far:

1.  Does Byram truly want to be a true #1 defenseman as has been reported? 

2.  Is Byram willing to stay in Buffalo long term? 

3.  How much would Byram sign here for?  Is it less than Power's contract (it ought to be)?  How much so?

4.  Do you think Power can improve his net front game/defensive without sacrificing much offensively? 

5.  How are they on the second power play unit?  the numbers for the pairings were even strength numbers I believe

6.  What can you get for either one on the open market?  

7.  Can Byram improve and eventually be able to carry another defender on the second line so we aren't so top heavy on defense?

credit to moneypuck for stats

Great post.  My preferred parings since the off-season have been:

Dahlin/Power 

Byram/Clifton

Sammuelsson/Jokiharju

For the life of me I don't see how this is worse that what Dallas puts on the ice:

Heiskanen/Lyubushkin

Harley/Dumba

Lindell/Lundkvist

Goaltending, forward experience, coaching are the factors I guess.  Our D-corps is still too young, but they should be better than they have performed.

 

 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This is an issue across the entire Sabres lineup.  

Power needs to go.  I was watching the highlights from last night and Wash scored the tying goal because Power refused to physically engage the guy he was covering in front of the net.  Had he tied him up as he is supposed to do, the Sabres might win the game in regulation.  

What can we get for Power? 

 

Absolutely not! Power played well in this game. Watching the highlights doesn't necessarily give you a fair representation of how well he played in this game. Again, a forceful no to your trade demand. 

[Carmel Corn]

20 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Absolutely not! Power played well in this game. Watching the highlights doesn't necessarily give you a fair representation of how well he played in this game. Again, a forceful no to your trade demand. 

He is still a defensive liability, especially in front of his own net.  Bad decision making and absolutely zero aggression, which is not good for a top 4 defender.  I’ll admit he made a nice offensive zone play, but that doesn’t offset his inability to shut down the opposition when trying to protect a lead.

[LGR4GM]

39 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Absolutely not! Power played well in this game. Watching the highlights doesn't necessarily give you a fair representation of how well he played in this game. Again, a forceful no to your trade demand. 

My favorite part was in OT when he simply waltzed up ice and was easily stripped from behind allowing a nice scoring opportunity against. 

He needs to play with way more pace and urgency. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

My favorite part was in OT when he simply waltzed up ice and was easily stripped from behind allowing a nice scoring opportunity against. 

He needs to play with way more pace and urgency. 

There is no question that Power is not a finished product. He's young and needs to get stronger. I'm confident that in the not too distant future he is going to be an upper tier blueliner. The Sabres have a recent self-destructive history of giving up on talented young players such as Eichel and Reinhart (for a variety of reasons) only to see them flourish on other teams. It would be a mistake to act out of impatience instead of allowing him the time to fulfill his potential. 

Edited 12 hours ago by JohnC

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Carmel Corn said:

He is still a defensive liability, especially in front of his own net.  Bad decision making and absolutely zero aggression, which is not good for a top 4 defender.  I’ll admit he made a nice offensive zone play, but that doesn’t offset his inability to shut down the opposition when trying to protect a lead.

There isn't a team in the league that wouldn't want to have. The bias against him is due to the fact that he is not a banger. He's not and never will be. As he gets stronger and more experienced, he is going to be an anchor player for the Sabres for a long time. 

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There is no question that Power is not a finished product. He's young and needs to get stronger. I'm confident that in the not too distant future he is going to be an upper tier blueliner. The Sabres have a recent self-destructive history of giving up on talented young players such as Eichel and Reinhart (for a variety of reasons) only to see them flourish on other teams. It would be a mistake to act out of impatience instead of allowing him the time to fulfill his potential. 

I think Owen Power will be a top of the line #2 defender on a team. I think that process will take another 3-5 years. 

I do find it interesting that with Benson, "he's a 3rd liner" and that's that but Power we should allow to grow. Just mentioning the juxtaposition. 

[Archie Lee]

40 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There isn't a team in the league that wouldn't want to have. The bias against him is due to the fact that he is not a banger. He's not and never will be. As he gets stronger and more experienced, he is going to be an anchor player for the Sabres for a long time. 

I agree that Power will be very good. He is already good at many things and is, in my view, already a net positive. If we trade Power (or any of our young players) for picks and prospects, as we did O’Reilly, Eichel, Reinhart, then we will again be kicking the can down the road and likely watching him go on to thrive with another team. Any trade needs to be for players who can help now. Vegas has traded multiple 1st rd picks and top prospects, including Nick Suzuki, in their short existence. It’s understood if you trade a pick or prospect, that they may go on to be very good elsewhere. 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I agree that Power will be very good. He is already good at many things and is, in my view, already a net positive. If we trade Power (or any of our young players) for picks and prospects, as we did O’Reilly, Eichel, Reinhart, then we will again be kicking the can down the road and likely watching him go on to thrive with another team. Any trade needs to be for players who can help now. Vegas has traded multiple 1st rd picks and top prospects, including Nick Suzuki, in their short existence. It’s understood if you trade a pick or prospect, that they may go on to be very good elsewhere. 

The model for upgrading should be the Washington Capitals. Adding a few solid mid-range experienced players who round out the roster and provide veteran presence to an error prone young group. Adding a Zucker like player and a tough big fellow like Greenway, in addition to a veteran defensive defenseman, would make this roster thicker and tougher to play. Last offseason was the time for our timid GM to act. It's not an issue of being bold as it is about being smart about what your roster needs are and the resources $$$ required to get some beneficial deals done. 

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I think Owen Power will be a top of the line #2 defender on a team. I think that process will take another 3-5 years. 

I do find it interesting that with Benson, "he's a 3rd liner" and that's that but Power we should allow to grow. Just mentioning the juxtaposition. 

You are misinterpreting my comments. Power right now is a legitimate second pairing defenseman who should get better. In my view, Benson is currently a third line player who in time may or may not grow into a second line role. I'm not ruling out that possibility. If he attains that higher line ranking it will be at least a few years away due to his physical stature as a youngster. If he eventually does become a second line player, I would be ecstatic.