Long Term: Byram or Power

[Scottysabres]

Byram is definitely the choice.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Power was signed to that contract for what he will be at 25 /26 years of age, not 22

what are they paying Jokiharju? Samuelsson?    I think Cozens days are numbered. 
Plenty of money to keep all 3 and add another high end RHD 

So you overpay him for 5 years so that you may or may not get full value for the final 3 years of the deal?  How does that make sense?  

 

[DarthEbriate]

It's not Power.

Power likely won't ever earn his salary as long as Dahlin is PP1. The only way Power could come close to earning his salary is if his PP2 unit was scoring at an elite level (and the PP1 was as well).

Contrast the Sabres' 27th-ranked PP (16.67%) with Winnipeg's (33%) and Vegas' (28%) absurdly good PPs. That's where the Sabres need to be to justify paying two D as top-pair PP1 pointmen. Consider this season's contrast:

 

WPG Morrissey age 29, 1 PPG, 17 PPA. 2:43 PP ATOI.  $6.25M.   3 more years under contract. And 5th and 7th in Norris voting the past two seasons.
WPG Pionk        age 29, 4 PPG, 7 PPA. 1:23 PP ATOI.  $5.875M. UFA this summer.
WPG 3rd D is DeMelo with no PP time and 13 points. $4.9M.

WPG spends only about $16M on its top 3 D.

 

VGK Theodore  age 29, 2 PPG, 17 PPA. 2:48 PP ATOI.     $7.425 for 5 seasons beginning this summer. Currently, $5.2M.
VGK Hanifin/Pietrangelo  age 28/35,  1 PPG 1 PPA.  0:58/0:54 PP ATOI.    $7.35M and $8.8M -- but only one is on the PP2 at a time.

Theodore is PP1 and the other guys get the scraps. Hanifin and Pietrangelo don't have the production, but they're also established vets who are decent in all zones. Combined top 3 is about $23.5M. 

 

Contrast that with the Sabres.

BUF Dahlin   age 24,  3 PPG, 11 PPA.    3:14 PP ATOI.   $11M
BUF Power   age 22,  1 PPG, 1 PPA.      1:49 PP ATOI        $8.35
BUF Byram   age 23,   0 PPG, 2 PPA.    1:17 PP ATOI   $ RFA.

The Sabres are at $23M this season, and their production on the PP is only equivalent to what Theodore provides. Power scores at 5-on-5, but he's still a minus -10 player this season overall (which is his first minus season overall; but he's not getting demonstrably better defensively). Next season, if Byram gets top-pair money, then they need more on the PP for any and all three D, but especially the PP2 D-man. Dahlin's number are slightly deflated by missing 8 games.

[Scottysabres]

14 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So you overpay him for 5 years so that you may or may not get full value for the final 3 years of the deal?  How does that make sense?  

 

Unfortunately his current development projections based on his first full 3 seasons do not bode well for his next 3 seasons as bad defensive habits continue to plague the former 1st overall pick.

Could he become something along the lines of an 8 mil a season d man? Maybe, but without seeing defensive game development forward progress, young or not, does not bode well for the expectation.

Edited February 10 by Scottysabres

[Night Train]

On 1/3/2025 at 12:39 PM, steveoat87 said:

Going forward, it appears to be that the Sabres are going to have to trade one of them to improve the team.  They need a right handed defenseman, and they desperately need at the very least a serviceable forward.  

Which of the two would you trade and why?

Power, Samuelsson, Cozens, Quinn...they could all be traded.  

Byram  is tons better than Power and was a great acquisition for Mitts. So many here panned that initially. He should be paid and move out the overpaid. 

Edited February 10 by Night Train

[Archie Lee]

47 minutes ago, Night Train said:

Power, Samuelsson, Cozens, Quinn...they could all be traded.  

Byram  is tons better than Power and was a great acquisition for Mitts. So many here panned that initially. He should be paid and move out the overpaid. 

Byram’s most common d-pairs this season at 5v5:  Dahlin 524 min, Power 237 min, Joker 102 min. 

Power’s:  Samuelsson 261 min, Byram 237 min, Joker 235 min, Dahlin 104. 

Byram is getting 1st pairing time with a legit  Norris calibre d-man. Power is getting shuttled from one struggling young vet to another. I’m suspicious that our views on Power/Byram would be the opposite if their common d-pairings were also. Adams and Ruff have treated Power disgracefully. 

Edited February 10 by Archie Lee

[Crusader1969]

Here is the Greatest point anyone can make.   It was from Lance Lylowski of the Buffalo News 

"if you trade Power or Byram, good luck trying to get a vet defenceman back to replace them, as they are on every players no trade list"

I would contend , you already need another top 4 dman l, so trading either Power or Byram would require 2 new guys   
 

Good Luck with that 

add the to defence, don't deplete it! They already have a lack of depth and talent on D, would would you deplete it further ? 

 

[mjd1001]

26 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Here is the Greatest point anyone can make.   It was from Lance Lylowski of the Buffalo News 

"if you trade Power or Byram, good luck trying to get a vet defenceman back to replace them, as they are on every players no trade list"

I would contend , you already need another top 4 dman l, so trading either Power or Byram would require 2 new guys   
 

Good Luck with that 

add the to defence, don't deplete it! They already have a lack of depth and talent on D, would would you deplete it further ? 

 

I can see that point of view. This year is lost already.  I'm not saying don't shop them around you never know what might happen, but don't force a move.  

The offseason is when you are likely going to address the Defense. It may be finding a good veteran guy that other teams are offering 3 years at $6million, and you going 4 years a $7.5m or more..but that is the position they put themselves in.

Power seems to have more bad games than good games and I can see the point of saying he isn't helping the team much right now. I see that. I get that. But I also know that many times D-men who are talented look like hot garbage their first few years, and then they turn into something special.  I'm much quicker to give up on Forwards than I am on D-men. Despite how good, or how bad Power may be playing I think getting rid of him now might be a long term mistake.

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

Here is the Greatest point anyone can make.   It was from Lance Lylowski of the Buffalo News 

"if you trade Power or Byram, good luck trying to get a vet defenceman back to replace them, as they are on every players no trade list"

I would contend , you already need another top 4 dman l, so trading either Power or Byram would require 2 new guys   
 

Good Luck with that 

add the to defence, don't deplete it! They already have a lack of depth and talent on D, would would you deplete it further ? 

 

The flaw with the Lysowski argument is that it makes the misguided assumption that every playoff team has a perfectly appointed 7 man D core, where you have a true #1 supported by a solid stay at home veteran #2, and then a 2nd pair with a #3 who could be a #1 and a #4 who could be a #2, etc.  And then you look at the Florida Panthers and see Mikkola and Kulikov as the 2nd pair.  Or Dallas and a right side of Lyubushkin, Dumba, and Ceci.  Or Tampa and Raddysh on pair 1.  Or Winnipeg with Samberg on pair two with Logan Stanley and Colin Miller as pair 3. It just isn't how it works.

I'm not opposed to keeping both Power and Byram.  But if we trade Power, for example, it is a myth that we need to acquire a couple of stud R shot D men like Rasmus Andersson and McKenzie Weegar to pair with Dahlin and Bryam in order to get better. 

Note: Calgary is somehow in the playoff hunt without Dahlin and Byram to pair with Andersson and Weegar.  

Edited February 10 by Archie Lee

[Crusader1969]

52 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

The flaw with the Lysowski argument is that it makes the misguided assumption that every playoff team has a perfectly appointed 7 man D core, where you have a true #1 supported by a solid stay at home veteran #2, and then a 2nd pair with a #3 who could be a #1 and a #4 who could be a #2, etc.  And then you look at the Florida Panthers and see Mikkola and Kulikov as the 2nd pair.  Or Dallas and a right side of Lyubushkin, Dumba, and Ceci.  Or Tampa and Raddysh on pair 1.  Or Winnipeg with Samberg on pair two with Logan Stanley and Colin Miller as pair 3. It just isn't how it works.

I'm not opposed to keeping both Power and Byram.  But if we trade Power, for example, it is a myth that we need to acquire a couple of stud R shot D men like Rasmus Andersson and McKenzie Weegar to pair with Dahlin and Bryam in order to get better. 

Note: Calgary is somehow in the playoff hunt without Dahlin and Byram to pair with Andersson and Weegar.  

I think the point is that vet dmen are unavailable to the Sabres (let alone 2) because no one is accepting a trade to them 

[Archie Lee]

Just now, Crusader1969 said:

I think the point is that vet dmen are unavailable to the Sabres (let alone 2) because no one is accepting a trade to them 

It is simply not the case that the sort of d-men you need to round out your top 4 and your 5-7 roles, all have trade protection. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

Adams and Ruff have treated Power disgracefully. 

Adams has treated the entire team disgracefully by not acquiring defensemen who can play defense.  
 

However, while you cannot like who Power is paired with, his defensive shortcomings and unwillingness to engage physically is all on him.  

21 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

It is simply not the case that the sort of d-men you need to round out your top 4 and your 5-7 roles, all have trade protection. 

For example Carson Soucey is available.

[DarthEbriate]

46 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Adams has treated the entire team disgracefully by not acquiring defensemen who can play defense.  
 

However, while you cannot like who Power is paired with, his defensive shortcomings and unwillingness to engage physically is all on him.  

For example Carson Soucey is available.

Soucy is available. Borgen was available. Fabbro was on waivers (I think the Sabres were a point or 2 better than Columbus at the time so he was claimed before reaching them, but I'd have to go back and confirm that) and has been skating with Werenski ever since. They're out there.

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Soucy is available. Borgen was available. Fabbro was on waivers (I think the Sabres were a point or 2 better than Columbus at the time so he was claimed before reaching them, but I'd have to go back and confirm that) and has been skating with Werenski ever since. They're out there.

Further proof that Adams is incompetent and has no idea how to build or support his roster.  

I want him gone as much as anyone else, but realize he isn't going anywhere.  Our only hope is that he somehow gets a clue and fixes the team.  This maybe a forlorn hope, but it's all we got.

[Archie Lee]

50 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Adams has treated the entire team disgracefully by not acquiring defensemen who can play defense.  
 

However, while you cannot like who Power is paired with, his defensive shortcomings and unwillingness to engage physically is all on him.  

For example Carson Soucey is available.

On Power. You are correct that he is not living up to the big contract. A bridge deal similar to what Dahlin had on his 2nd contract, might have been more suitable. Also, though he was never going to be a physical brute, his near complete lack of physical engagement is concerning. What I think you under estimate is how his deficiencies have been magnified by just how poorly he has been supported throughout his pro-career. 

On Soucy, he is actually not a good example as he has a full NTC (changes to 12 team next season).  He did, however, sign with the Canucks in the summer of 2023, when the Sabres were starting to come off some no-trade-lists (reportedly). His contract is 3x$3.25. What I reject is that we can’t get players like Soucy in free angency, even if we are prepared to go an extra year or two on term or to a higher AAV.  We have just decided not to pursue such contracts, in my view. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

24 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

On Power. You are correct that he is not living up to the big contract. A bridge deal similar to what Dahlin had on his 2nd contract, might have been more suitable. Also, though he was never going to be a physical brute, his near complete lack of physical engagement is concerning. What I think you under estimate is how his deficiencies have been magnified by just how poorly he has been supported throughout his pro-career. 

On Soucy, he is actually not a good example as he has a full NTC (changes to 12 team next season).  He did, however, sign with the Canucks in the summer of 2023, when the Sabres were starting to come off some no-trade-lists (reportedly). His contract is 3x$3.25. What I reject is that we can’t get players like Soucy in free angency, even if we are prepared to go an extra year or two on term or to a higher AAV.  We have just decided not to pursue such contracts, in my view. 

Good Gm's always seem to find the right guys in trade or free agency even when their teams suck.  

By the way there are 2 Russian D who I would love for Adams to acquire in free agency.  They are smart accomplished vets and would be good mentors for our kids and for the Russian in the AHL.  They are Orlov (33) who still play 20 minutes a game for Carolina and Gavrikov (29) with is playing 24 minutes a night for LA.  I don't think either team can afford to re-sign these players.  I'd love both, but would settle for just one.  

[Stoner]

Too lazy to see if someone beat me to it.

[Crusader1969]

4 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

It is simply not the case that the sort of d-men you need to round out your top 4 and your 5-7 roles, all have trade protection. 

Ok. I'll bite .  Give me an RHD and. LHD to fill out the top 4 

Edited February 10 by Crusader1969

[Crusader1969]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Adams has treated the entire team disgracefully by not acquiring defensemen who can play defense.  
 

However, while you cannot like who Power is paired with, his defensive shortcomings and unwillingness to engage physically is all on him.  

For example Carson Soucey is available.

How do you plan to get around his 12 team no trade list ?

until I see the Sabres acquire a player who could have vetoed a trade, I'll assume they are everyone's No Trade List 

Edited February 10 by Crusader1969

[Crusader1969]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Soucy is available. Borgen was available. Fabbro was on waivers (I think the Sabres were a point or 2 better than Columbus at the time so he was claimed before reaching them, but I'd have to go back and confirm that) and has been skating with Werenski ever since. They're out there.

Soucy 12 team no trade 

Borgen UFA at end of year 

Yes I would have liked the Sabres to make a move on Fabbro but let's be honest - for a team to give up on a player , that's a pretty big indictment 

[GASabresIUFAN]

22 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

How do you plan to get around his 12 team no trade list ?

until I see the Sabres acquire a player who could have vetoed a trade, I'll assume they are everyone's No Trade List 

We have all been conditioned to think the worst about Adams and the Sabres' ability to attract outside talent.  There is no question after 14 years of failure, it's a huge factor in bringing in players.  However winning isn't the only thing players care about.  Money is a factor, playing time is also a factor as is proximity to family.  Van just added Pettersson to play in their top 4 dropping Soucy to their bottom pair.  Maybe he'd waive the NTC to get top 4 PT.  There is no harm in asking.

That said there are other possibilities.  

[kas23]

31 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Soucy 12 team no trade 

Borgen UFA at end of year 

Yes I would have liked the Sabres to make a move on Fabbro but let's be honest - for a team to give up on a player , that's a pretty big indictment 

Borgen signed an extension. 

[Thorner]

Power easily. 

But Byram should be bridged 

[Crusader1969]

44 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We have all been conditioned to think the worst about Adams and the Sabres' ability to attract outside talent.  There is no question after 14 years of failure, it's a huge factor in bringing in players.  However winning isn't the only thing players care about.  Money is a factor, playing time is also a factor as is proximity to family.  Van just added Pettersson to play in their top 4 dropping Soucy to their bottom pair.  Maybe he'd waive the NTC to get top 4 PT.  There is no harm in asking.

That said there are other possibilities.  

I'm listening......  as for Soucy, you are saying that the Sabres should go out and add a defender that was so well liked in Vancouver that they went out at traded for someone to replace him?   I really don't have an opinion on Soucy, 

you trade Power away from him and how much better are you now?  And how much better are you in 2 / 3 years when hits 24 /25 years of age 
 

[GASabresIUFAN]

16 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I'm listening......  as for Soucy, you are saying that the Sabres should go out and add a defender that was so well liked in Vancouver that they went out at traded for someone to replace him?   I really don't have an opinion on Soucy, 

you trade Power away from him and how much better are you now?  And how much better are you in 2 / 3 years when hits 24 /25 years of age 
 

Remember having Dahlin Power and Byram has yielded the top scoring D threesome in the NHL, but what has that done for the team?  The PP still stinks and the team is in last place in the Eastern conference.  

You trade Power away to not only add defensive D, which are a much bigger need now than a 3rd offensive D, but also to free up cap space to keep vets like Zucker and Greenway.

Truthfully I'm not at all worried about 3 years from now.  I want to be a playoff team next season and adding defensive D will bring us much closer to that goal than keeping Power.  Also by 3 years from now, Novikov, Komarov and Strbak will likely be on the Sabres hopefully giving us cheap and effective defenders who actually play defense to go with Dahlin and Byram.   

Edited February 10 by GASabresIUFAN