Re-sign, trade or keep? Which players on the Sabres would you put in the trade market and when?

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Trading Dahlin is a complete nonstarter. I’m done with trading our best player to other teams.

As for the rest of your review post it makes sense. I like many others have begged the team to get a couple defensive first Dmen to play with Dahlin and Power, now Power and Byram since Dahlin is good enough to work with most. Frankly I just don’t understand why we haven’t because it’s not as if all D first players are extremely expensive or trade protected. And they do have some degree of value in the style based on Muel’s contract and yet the only rumored target was Pesce 2 years ago. It’s baffling and begs to question if it’s more anti-vet convincing related or monetary demands/term demands. Like why is there seemingly a 1/2 over 30 limit on the team? We have Reimer and Zucker, everyone else is at most 30 whereas most of the team doesn’t cross the 25yrs old mark. All I can fathom is Adams has no interest in convincing vets to come here in the slightest and is perfectly happy with a plethora of young players trying to learn everything on the fly. Which rarely works.

The CHL rule robbed Benson of AHL time to grow since Jrs wouldn’t have served him well in the slightest. 

A couple of things.  

1) I said one of Power, Byram or Dahlin.  My preference in Power.  His contract is a huge burden and he'll never play to that level as he won't play defense.  I do agree trading Dahlin is a non-starter unless McDavid is coming back.

2) The vets not coming here are a two fold problem.  One Adams, for reasons known only to himself, won't "block" a prospect. Therefore he was always filling roster holes with bargain basement players.  Had he brought in real Zucker quality vets in recent years, the prospects would have had to earn their slot and would have been better for the competition.  The second issue is a further indictment of the Pegula ownership; vets don't want to play for an organization that has no clue how to build a winning team.  Three GMs, 5 (were there more) coaches etc..., 14 years of failure.  Would you want to play for Adams and Pegula?

3) Yes the CHL rule is stupid and another year in the WHL likely wouldn't have helped Benson other than international competitions.  However, had he played one more year in Jrs, he'd have been eligible for the AHL this season because he'd have played 4 seasons in the CHL and the 20 year old rule wouldn't have applied.  I believe this is the route they should have taken with Benson.  This team came close to a playoff spot two years ago and adding quality vets instead of 18 year olds may have helped break the drought last year.

4) Adams couldn't sell a bottle of water to someone dying of thirst in a desert.

[elijah]

Don’t Move: 

Tage, Tuch, Dahlin, Benson

 

Maybe Move If The Price Is Right?:

UPL, Quinn, Cozens, Peterka, Kulich, Levi, Power

 

They Could Stay Or They Could Go: 

Greenway, Zucker

 

For the Love of God Please Move: 

Everyone else 

[Gatorman0519]

On 1/3/2025 at 2:01 PM, DarthEbriate said:

97% of the centers in the league would be 2C in Florida and Colorado, thanks to Barkov and McKinnon.

Which is my point. And that’s what a championship roster looks like. 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, elijah said:

Don’t Move: 

Tage, Tuch, Dahlin, Benson

 

Maybe Move If The Price Is Right?:

UPL, Quinn, Cozens, Peterka, Kulich, Levi, Power

 

They Could Stay Or They Could Go: 

Greenway, Zucker

 

For the Love of God Please Move: 

Everyone else 

Man, Zucker would be the one guy on the roster I would spend considerable effort trying to convince to stick around.

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, Gatorman0519 said:

Which is my point. And that’s what a championship roster looks like. 

And that takes us back to the longstanding discussion of: they had Eichel to be that 1C. Instead of Adams blowing up the core and rebuilding with the youthful assets and no blockers, he says: "we're committing to the core" (except Risto. Move him anyway) and get Reinhart a long-term deal and add veteran Zucker-like assets to the roster 5 years ago. Get a proven NHL coach who has been in conference finals (the McClellan, or heck, even Ruff after the Stars fired him, or equivalent) and you go from there.

Eichel-TNT-Mitts is an OK offensive center spine. You get a 4C to win late D-zone faceoffs exclusively, get the veteran D-man for Dahlin. Probably don't finish last to even draft Power. Skinner could be a top-6 but wouldn't have the money available to pay him that much and it'd be up to him "Do I sign for less to play with Eichel/TNT?" If not, no biggie. And you have a roster of blockers so that only one of Cozens, JJP, or Quinn can be under 100 NHL GP at a time. (And if you love Tuch, then you trade for him because he's top-6 on TNT's wing, but only a 3RW in Vegas.)

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Don't trade the good players we have, unless it's for an equally good player at a position of need.

I would trade whatever number 1 we end up with for a good 2nd line forward.  Package it with other stuff to get a very good 1st / 2nd line forward.  And don't lottery protect it.

[Crusader1969]

35 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Don't trade the good players we have, unless it's for an equally good player at a position of need.

I would trade whatever number 1 we end up with for a good 2nd line forward.  Package it with other stuff to get a very good 1st / 2nd line forward.  And don't lottery protect it.

Don't lottery protect your 1st rounder that will be in the top 5 for a 2nd line forward?   That's a bit crazy 

[PerreaultForever]

On 1/3/2025 at 2:58 PM, thewookie1 said:

The CHL rule robbed Benson of AHL time to grow since Jrs wouldn’t have served him well in the slightest. 

I disagree. We want all these kids to come in as children and some of them like Benson shows signs of being able but there's more to becoming a pro than just playing, becoming a man even if you like. 

Sure, you could argue that he won't learn much in junior but would it be so bad to have him dominate in junior? Win a championship maybe? Captain team Canada in the world juniors to maybe not choke? Get bigger and stronger and then be really good and strong and confident when you come into the NHL full time? 

What have the Sabres achieved keeping Benson on the roster other than burning years off his ELC and showing fans how useless the other guys are in terms of effort.

We do not know how to develop young players properly. That is certain. 

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I disagree. We want all these kids to come in as children and some of them like Benson shows signs of being able but there's more to becoming a pro than just playing, becoming a man even if you like. 

Sure, you could argue that he won't learn much in junior but would it be so bad to have him dominate in junior? Win a championship maybe? Captain team Canada in the world juniors to maybe not choke? Get bigger and stronger and then be really good and strong and confident when you come into the NHL full time? 

What have the Sabres achieved keeping Benson on the roster other than burning years off his ELC and showing fans how useless the other guys are in terms of effort.

We do not know how to develop young players properly. That is certain. 

In general, I agree with you that the Sabre organization is not very adept at developing young players. Clearly, too many prospects are rushed to the big league before being ready. But Benson is not an example where going back to the juniors would have better served his development than the course that was taken with him. There is no question that he needs more physical development before he becomes a more reliable NHL player. But even with that consideration, no one can argue that his dogged play and willingness to go net are unsatisfactory. In fact, other than Zucker, Benson puts to shame his older teammates in the proper way to play. The point I'm making here is that because of the junior rule requirement keeping him in the NHL was the right approach to take. In my mind, he's an exception to the standard process that applies to most young prospects.  

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

In general, I agree with you that the Sabre organization is not very adept at developing young players. Clearly, too many prospects are rushed to the big league before being ready. But Benson is not an example where going back to the juniors would have better served his development than the course that was taken with him. There is no question that he needs more physical development before he becomes a more reliable NHL player. But even with that consideration, no one can argue that his dogged play and willingness to go net are unsatisfactory. In fact, other than Zucker, Benson puts to shame his older teammates in the proper way to play. The point I'm making here is that because of the junior rule requirement keeping him in the NHL was the right approach to take. In my mind, he's an exception to the standard process that applies to most young prospects.  

I'm still going to disagree with that. I firmly believe that being part of winning at the lower level would benefit him more than being surrounded by the stink of losing he has gotten here. 

The team we have is delusional top to bottom. Watched a Tage interview post Colorado and he was talking about all the good things they did and how good they played. THEY LOST. I never hear that on any other team. Having Benson in junior and another Zucker type veteran in his spot would have been the better plan. Lack of veteran leaders is the biggest problem and the idea of a room full of kids growing together is ridiculous. 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm still going to disagree with that. I firmly believe that being part of winning at the lower level would benefit him more than being surrounded by the stink of losing he has gotten here. 

The team we have is delusional top to bottom. Watched a Tage interview post Colorado and he was talking about all the good things they did and how good they played. THEY LOST. I never hear that on any other team. Having Benson in junior and another Zucker type veteran in his spot would have been the better plan. Lack of veteran leaders is the biggest problem and the idea of a room full of kids growing together is ridiculous. 

The stench of losing is contaminating everyone, veterans and rookies. Adding another couple of solid Zuker-like veterans would have benefited everyone. The one thing that I can say about Benson is that I have never seen him coast while being subjected to this cesspool situation. The source of this franchise's failure is not so much about particular players as it is about a hollow organization run by a sycophantic GM that is set up to fail. When you have a clueless and non-committed owner what did you expect the outcome to be? The owner weirdly selected the pygmy GM and the created the organizational structure that kneeled to his whimsical desires. The outcome should not be surprising.  It's an outrageous and sad situation. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

The stench of losing is contaminating everyone, veterans and rookies. Adding another couple of solid Zuker-like veterans would have benefited everyone. The one thing that I can say about Benson is that I have never seen him coast while being subjected to this cesspool situation. The source of this franchise's failure is not so much about particular players as it is about a hollow organization run by a sycophantic GM that is set up to fail. When you have a clueless and non-committed owner what did you expect the outcome to be? The owner weirdly selected the pygmy GM and the created the organizational structure that kneeled to his whimsical desires. The outcome should not be surprising.  It's an outrageous and sad situation. 

Agree with what you're saying there but would just add that veterans would have experienced something different so one would hope they could get the others out of the funks quicker and raise the standard to where it should be. Benson hasn't quit yet, but Cozens never quit in his first years either. Wait until Benson gets his big payday 🙂

 

[thewookie1]

27 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Agree with what you're saying there but would just add that veterans would have experienced something different so one would hope they could get the others out of the funks quicker and raise the standard to where it should be. Benson hasn't quit yet, but Cozens never quit in his first years either. Wait until Benson gets his big payday 🙂

 

Frankly I still don’t think Benson would have gained much of anything by staying in JRs. He would have been more likely to pick up bad habits by figuring out shortcuts to his game and the like. This is why I beat the drum about how asinine the CHL rule is because Benson belonged in the AHL last year learning Pro-hockey against other professionals. 
 

I agree though on needing more vets to help insulate the youngsters.

[Crusader1969]

17 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Frankly I still don’t think Benson would have gained much of anything by staying in JRs. He would have been more likely to pick up bad habits by figuring out shortcuts to his game and the like. This is why I beat the drum about how asinine the CHL rule is because Benson belonged in the AHL last year learning Pro-hockey against other professionals. 
 

I agree though on needing more vets to help insulate the youngsters.

Especially on defence 

Adams should be tried for treason for not having any vets in his top 4 

[DarthEbriate]

11 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Especially on defence 

Adams should be tried for treason for not having any vets in his top 4 

Nah. Adams did his best. He got Clifton and Erik Johnson. Done and done.

[mjd1001]

Just now, DarthEbriate said:

Nah. Adams did his best. He got Clifton and Erik Johnson. Done and done.

I think Clifton is pretty decent as long as you don't pencil him in higher than the 3rd pair.

Erik Johnson was bad. The IDEA of a good veteran D-man was correct, but with Johnson, the 'good' part of it wasn't there at all.

[thewookie1]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I think Clifton is pretty decent as long as you don't pencil him in higher than the 3rd pair.

Erik Johnson was bad. The IDEA of a good veteran D-man was correct, but with Johnson, the 'good' part of it wasn't there at all.

I liked the Erik Johnson idea as a 7, but when it failed he needed to go out and get a more legit one this year with more tread on the tires.

Hell grab Alec Martinez who was a shot block man on Vegas's bottom pair and had 3 rings for the bottom pair.

Trade for Marino

There were some options beyond sign Gilbert and pray.

[thewookie1]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I disagree. We want all these kids to come in as children and some of them like Benson shows signs of being able but there's more to becoming a pro than just playing, becoming a man even if you like. 

Sure, you could argue that he won't learn much in junior but would it be so bad to have him dominate in junior? Win a championship maybe? Captain team Canada in the world juniors to maybe not choke? Get bigger and stronger and then be really good and strong and confident when you come into the NHL full time? 

What have the Sabres achieved keeping Benson on the roster other than burning years off his ELC and showing fans how useless the other guys are in terms of effort.

We do not know how to develop young players properly. That is certain. 

Remember that his JR team left Winnipeg for Portland?? I believe and hired a new coach. Savoie was traded so maybe we force them to trade Benson but that wasn't a sure thing. As for the World Juniors, Canada hates small players as well as anyone who might steal the spotlight from their newest wonderkind 

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Frankly I still don’t think Benson would have gained much of anything by staying in JRs. He would have been more likely to pick up bad habits by figuring out shortcuts to his game and the like. This is why I beat the drum about how asinine the CHL rule is because Benson belonged in the AHL last year learning Pro-hockey against other professionals. 
 

I agree though on needing more vets to help insulate the youngsters.

I agree in part, but what they need is people working for the Sabres that stay on top of the kids they send back. Guide them and help them and give them weight programs and other development plans. We really aren't investing enough on development at any level and with a constant rely on the draft and young players plan it's really stupid. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Remember that his JR team left Winnipeg for Portland?? I believe and hired a new coach. Savoie was traded so maybe we force them to trade Benson but that wasn't a sure thing. As for the World Juniors, Canada hates small players as well as anyone who might steal the spotlight from their newest wonderkind 

I think you could argue that Canada isn't dominating the worlds any more because too many of their best are staying in the NHL. 

Celebrini, Bedard, Fantilli, Benson, that team could be a lot better than it was couldn't it. 

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Remember that his JR team left Winnipeg for Portland?? I believe and hired a new coach. Savoie was traded so maybe we force them to trade Benson but that wasn't a sure thing. As for the World Juniors, Canada hates small players as well as anyone who might steal the spotlight from their newest wonderkind 

Benson was also still eligible to play at the WJC regardless of being on an NHL team. 

Also Canada left Misa at home when their rush and goal scoring abilities were bad. Wasn't a smart move. 

[JP51]

honestly even Benson, there is no one I would say is off limits... to trade it depends on the return... like you pull off a massive Blockbuster and try to get say mcDavid... well guess what, if they want Benson, Dahlin etc... thats what you are giving up. No one thought when the Sabres were trading for La Fontaine that they would put Fifi on the market... but they wanted Turgeon so.. off he went...  When... that moves to it depends on the return.. I simply do not trust the current management to obtain a return with the types of players required to build this team... so, whenever there is a new and competent GM, POHO or whatever would be the time... if you are telling me that is never gonna happen... then I really dont know how to respond, because it wont matter anyways...  I know this... I do not want KA making decisions with our assets against competent GMs, nor do I want him reforming the core and direction of this team. 

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I think Clifton is pretty decent as long as you don't pencil him in higher than the 3rd pair.

Erik Johnson was bad. The IDEA of a good veteran D-man was correct, but with Johnson, the 'good' part of it wasn't there at all.

It's not hard to know what needs to be done. The challenge is in executing the plan to make the change. When you have a shooter who has a tendency to shoot himself in the feet, it shouldn't be a surprised that he walks with a limp. 

[DarthEbriate]

10 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Remember that his JR team left Winnipeg for Portland??

Wenatchee. Completely shuffled their team and traded out Savoie for a boatload of picks and futures.

[Jorcus]

On Benson, You have to remember that he got on the roster because there was no better option at the time to replace the injured Jack Quinn. Adams failures are long but not addressing that issue last year hurt the team and Benson was not productive enough to play a top 6 roll on any team even this one. He still is not productive enough for that roll. For all the good things he does, and there are many he is very limited in his up and down the ice speed and has a very slow shot. He can be a useful player in the right situation but when talking about youth vs vets the 2nd line wing has been the festering open sore on this team that never gets healed. I have my doubts about Bensons celling being very high. Maybe a couple of years of physical maturation can improve his needed skills but that is a big unknown. A year in Junior would at least have let the strength level come up. He never should have been here last year and to be honest I am not sure even this year because we needed something different. I hope he works out, I am sure he will in the right situation with the right team structure but a wide open end to end team is not this guys game.