Draft Top 3 This Year, Win the Lottery Next Year

[inkman]

2 hours ago, SwampD said:

Last night, at the point, Dahlin tried to backhand pass to himself through the guy defending him. That guy just took the body. Someone else took the puck. It was as soft and stupid a play as I’ve seen in a while, and that is saying something.

I absolutely do not think that picking high again is the way out. Guys at the top of the draft have always been better than everyone around them so they never had to work as hard.

For a guy who is an analytics darling, I see him making the dumbest plays of anyone on the roster.  Nightly.  Always doing cute stuff that blows up in his face immediately.  

[Crusader1969]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

@SwampD  I’m not kidding.  I’m not having these conversations again.  This team isn’t worth following if they are going to follow a failed strategy with the same strategy.

How are they possibly worth following now?   13 in a row after tonight, 32nd place 

3 hours ago, inkman said:

No kids on this roster or otherwise are going to right the ship.  They need grown ass men who understand how to play a 200 foot game and take every shift seriously.  The core of this team is rotten.  Rotten with fat pay checks, half ass effort, and complacency.  Almost everyone on this roster doesn’t play the game the right way.  Constantly cheating the defensive zone in the name of being selfish opportunists.   
 

I’m not sure Dahlin or Tage are immune to this.  They are constantly getting caught behind the play or out of position.   

So trade Dahlin? 

[Crusader1969]

3 hours ago, SwampD said:

Last night, at the point, Dahlin tried to backhand pass to himself through the guy defending him. That guy just took the body. Someone else took the puck. It was as soft and stupid a play as I’ve seen in a while, and that is saying something.

I absolutely do not think that picking high again is the way out. Guys at the top of the draft have always been better than everyone around them so they never had to work as hard.

I think you are right.   I would trade away anyone drafted in the 1sr round.   We need more guys like Bryson and Clifton.  Guys who had to work to get to the NHL

[Crusader1969]

14 minutes ago, inkman said:

Please and thank you 

Yep. Sabres fans have learnt nothing over the last 14 years 

[Crusader1969]

1 minute ago, inkman said:

I want players that know how to win.  He’s also my least favorite player on the team.  Has been since he first stepped foot on the ice.  First overall picks are supposed to be franchise changing players. What has he changed?

Let me think about that.  They were in a ***** playoff spot when he got hurt.    Now they are in last place.    That take is ridonkulous! 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

I think you are right.   I would trade away anyone drafted in the 1sr round.   We need more guys like Bryson and Clifton.  Guys who had to work to get to the NHL

This is a stupid post.

[Archie Lee]

The players who need support are the ones we have committed to. Thompson, Cozens, Tuch (likely), Peterka (likely), Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Byram (likely), and UPL. I’m not opposed to moving one or two in a hockey trade. But we need more McLeods and Zuckers and Greenways and Cliftons and not more Quinns and Kulichs and Bensons. We have lots of prospects and we will be drafting at the top of the draft again. It’s time to move off of some of our youngest players and off of some of our prospects and support the good NHL players we have. It’s actually well past time. This is not an indictment of ours kids and prospects, it’s an indictment of our owner and GM. 

[sabremike]

11 hours ago, Dreams Burn Down said:

The ghosts of Harold Ballard and Eugene Melnyk would like to have a word on this.  The situation with the Sabres could still get much, much worse.

Both of them were awful but still had significantly more success than Pegula.

[Rasmus_]

27 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Both of them were awful but still had significantly more success than Pegula.

 

Perfect!

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

The players who need support are the ones we have committed to. Thompson, Cozens, Tuch (likely), Peterka (likely), Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Byram (likely), and UPL. I’m not opposed to moving one or two in a hockey trade. But we need more McLeods and Zuckers and Greenways and Cliftons and not more Quinns and Kulichs and Bensons. We have lots of prospects and we will be drafting at the top of the draft again. It’s time to move off of some of our youngest players and off of some of our prospects and support the good NHL players we have. It’s actually well past time. This is not an indictment of ours kids and prospects, it’s an indictment of our owner and GM. 

I think we've broken Cozens by forcing him to consistently carry rookie or green young talent on his wings for pretty much his entire Buffalo career, which we also rushed and never gave him any real development of his own. We rush and poorly develop almost all of them and we break a lot of them as a result along the way. 

[Kristian]

56 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think we've broken Cozens by forcing him to consistently carry rookie or green young talent on his wings for pretty much his entire Buffalo career, which we also rushed and never gave him any real development of his own. We rush and poorly develop almost all of them and we break a lot of them as a result along the way. 

We don’t break them, they score 50 goals and win cups once they leave 🤣

[LGR4GM]

If you're going to draft top 3 this year, seems likely, everyone single player from Quinn and Peterka down should be available to help improve the team. Basically everyone 23 and under because Misa, Martone, Hagens, Schaefer are better than all of them. 

Lone exception is Benson. 

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

If you're going to draft top 3 this year, seems likely, everyone single player from Quinn and Peterka down should be available to help improve the team. Basically everyone 23 and under because Misa, Martone, Hagens, Schaefer are better than all of them. 

Lone exception is Benson. 

Agreed, though I would have no hesitation in including Benson. I have nothing against Benson. I just don’t see that he is the sure thing you see him as (much like I did not think that Quinn was on verge of being a play-driving, 80 point, top 20 NHL winger). I like Benson a lot, I just don’t see him as untouchable. Further, I believe strongly that his presence on the roster the last two years has been a big factor in our demise. Not his play or personality (he’s fine and on balance has held his own in the NHL).  But simply the notion that 15 months ago our GM thought adding an 18 year old was part of the solution. The 23-24 off-season of complacency that led to the addition of an 18 year old to our roster, led to the degradation of whatever winning culture they had developed by the end of 22-23. That’s not on Benson obviously. 

The Sabres are uniquely positioned. They have the youngest roster and one of the best prospect pools in the NHL. They have not one but two former 1st overall d-men who are among the most offensively gifted players at their position in the NHL. They have a legit 40 goal, potentially 50 goal, player in Thompson. They have multiple legit ready to win pieces. And incredibly, the current GM has been so bad at his job going back to May 2023 that we will be picking in the top 5 again. Imagine what a committed owner, a competent GM, and a legit NHL coaching staff could do with this combination of assets. Will we ever find out?

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Agreed, though I would have no hesitation in including Benson. I have nothing against Benson. I just don’t see that he is the sure thing you see him as (much like I did not think that Quinn was on verge of being a play-driving, 80 point, top 20 NHL winger). I like Benson a lot, I just don’t see him as untouchable. Further, I believe strongly that his presence on the roster the last two years has been a big factor in our demise. Not his play or personality (he’s fine and on balance has held his own in the NHL).  But simply the notion that 15 months ago our GM thought adding an 18 year old was part of the solution. The 23-24 off-season of complacency that led to the addition of an 18 year old to our roster, led to the degradation of whatever winning culture they had developed by the end of 22-23. That’s not on Benson obviously. 

The Sabres are uniquely positioned. They have the youngest roster and one of the best prospect pools in the NHL. They have not one but two former 1st overall d-men who are among the most offensively gifted players at their position in the NHL. They have a legit 40 goal, potentially 50 goal, player in Thompson. They have multiple legit ready to win pieces. And incredibly, the current GM has been so bad at his job going back to May 2023 that we will be picking in the top 5 again. Imagine what a committed owner, a competent GM, and a legit NHL coaching staff could do with this combination of assets. Will we ever find out?

Zach Benson is the 4th youngest player in the NHL. He's already a 2way guy and the offense is neutered because the rest of his linemates typically suck. 

Zach Benson is more of a sure thing than everyone else we're talking about. 

[Flashsabre]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

If you're going to draft top 3 this year, seems likely, everyone single player from Quinn and Peterka down should be available to help improve the team. Basically everyone 23 and under because Misa, Martone, Hagens, Schaefer are better than all of them. 

Lone exception is Benson. 

I agree. But right now who we draft doesn’t matter. Until this team fundamentally changes none of these kids will change anything.

The players the Sabres have drafted are good players. But they have all been setup to fail. Continuing to draft and throw young players to the wolves while not supporting them in the lineup has killed this franchise and it goes back to the Reinhart and Eichel days. 2-3 kids breaking into a team at the same time should be the absolute max. They should be surrounded by quality vets to lead the way. It has never happened here since the tank.

[LGR4GM]

2-3 is too many. 

And Eichel and Reinhart were traded right when they hit their prime by a moron GM. They could have easily been part of the solution. 

[Archie Lee]

48 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Zach Benson is the 4th youngest player in the NHL. He's already a 2way guy and the offense is neutered because the rest of his linemates typically suck. 

Zach Benson is more of a sure thing than everyone else we're talking about. 

For sure he could use better linemates, as could Quinn, Kulich and Cozens. Drop any of them on the Dallas Stars or Florida Panthers and they are doing just fine and nobody is arguing that they are holding those teams back. Put 8-9 players in this category on the same team and you are the Anaheim Ducks or Chicago Blackhawks. Put 8-9 players in this category on the same team and add playoff expectations to the mix, and you have the Buffalo Sabres. 

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

Agreed, though I would have no hesitation in including Benson. I have nothing against Benson. I just don’t see that he is the sure thing you see him as (much like I did not think that Quinn was on verge of being a play-driving, 80 point, top 20 NHL winger). I like Benson a lot, I just don’t see him as untouchable. Further, I believe strongly that his presence on the roster the last two years has been a big factor in our demise. Not his play or personality (he’s fine and on balance has held his own in the NHL).  But simply the notion that 15 months ago our GM thought adding an 18 year old was part of the solution. The 23-24 off-season of complacency that led to the addition of an 18 year old to our roster, led to the degradation of whatever winning culture they had developed by the end of 22-23. That’s not on Benson obviously. 

The Sabres are uniquely positioned. They have the youngest roster and one of the best prospect pools in the NHL. They have not one but two former 1st overall d-men who are among the most offensively gifted players at their position in the NHL. They have a legit 40 goal, potentially 50 goal, player in Thompson. They have multiple legit ready to win pieces. And incredibly, the current GM has been so bad at his job going back to May 2023 that we will be picking in the top 5 again. Imagine what a committed owner, a competent GM, and a legit NHL coaching staff could do with this combination of assets. Will we ever find out?

Every asset is on the table for the right price, up to and including the pick itself 

[7+6=13]

19 hours ago, Weave said:

@SwampD  I’m not kidding.  I’m not having these conversations again.  This team isn’t worth following if they are going to follow a failed strategy with the same strategy.

We've attempted several strategies, one is going to get repeated.

[Pimlach]

22 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

This might be our only way out.

This year's draft looks to be deep at the top end, but none of the players are franchise changers. In my Ontario biased opinion, Schaefer, Mortone, and Misa have all passed Hagens, who's well behind Celebrini's NCAA pace from last year. One of the top 3 would be good cornerstone player, but they won't change us for next year.

After sucking again next year, we win the lottery and snag McKenna, who looks like a true superstar in the making.

I can't think of another way out of the bottom than this.

We did this, and it failed, and it basically destroyed the team for oh about 14 years now. 

So you want to tank for two years.  Maybe get another 18 year old savior. And then what, wait 4 more to build around him?  

So 20 years without playoffs.  Have you learned anything from the last tank?  

 

[North Buffalo]

If this a deep draft can Sabres trade for 2 or 3 number 1s and get rid of a couple the floaters on D and O

[Pimlach]

6 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

If this a deep draft can Sabres trade for 2 or 3 number 1s and get rid of a couple the floaters on D and O

Really?     

Why would anyone think a top 3 pick in this crop of 18 years will not have the same development timeline as a guy like Sam Reinhart?

Reinhart was highly touted.  He looked good as rookie, a promising kid with skill that needed to grow.   He was much better at four years.  He is a true Super Star by 8 years.    That is what you get if you are lucky. 

It still takes time.  No 18 year old is going to turn this around by himself.  

[Thorner]

Darcy Regier was the last GM to get this team to the playoffs. It sort of gets written out of history, but he even did it with Pegula as the owner (I know, not for the whole season - but the portion of the season that actually earned the berth was played under his watch). Darcy was an experienced GM when he managed the feat. He managed a playoff team multiple times. Darcy had been a general manager (on an interim basis, sure, but he still performed the role) when we hired him. He was a qualified candidate beyond that. 

Botterill comes the closest in resume before taking the job, so three types of candidates don’t always work out to Darcy’s level, but you have a far better shot at it than hiring a guy with Adams’ essentially non-existent credentials.

Of course, imo, the veteran, experienced Darcy of his later years (mistakes and all, we don’t need to ask for the moon, I think we’ve seen how much of an improvement even basic competence would be at this point) is what would serve us best in steering this into a playoff team with Pegula around, so the experienced candidate is still the ideal choice.

Again, something we haven’t had since Darcy. It’s all about finding (allowing) an experienced candidate 

Edited 23 hours ago by Thorner

[inkman]

15 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Let me think about that.  They were in a ***** playoff spot when he got hurt.    Now they are in last place.    That take is ridonkulous! 

After reflection, I think Dahlin could be a part of the solution as a #4 dman.  

[Jorcus]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Zach Benson is the 4th youngest player in the NHL. He's already a 2way guy and the offense is neutered because the rest of his linemates typically suck. 

Zach Benson is more of a sure thing than everyone else we're talking about. 

 

I look at this a different way. Unless Zach Benson can get faster and get a harder shot we are seeing all that Zach Benson will ever be. He skates well in short spaces but does not have up and down the ice speed. In that respect he is one of he slowest players on the team. He also has the weakest shot. He does have high end hockey smarts he can rob pucks off others sticks but the more I see him the less I think he will be a top 6 forward any time soon. I just don't know where he fits on this team right now. You might have to wait 3-4 years to hope he gets faster and develops a hockey shot but Is that what we need. We all like that he is one of the few who goes to the front of the net but most goalies see right over the top of him. I know this team needs net front guys but we need big ones who can tip them in.  

The reality is there are very few players that have NHL level skills in terms of athleticism. We have to keep and coach the ones we have and try to find more. Isn't that what the Bills do? I hope Zach does well, he certainly try's hard. I would not call him a sure thing.