Sabres have trade blocked prior to NHL roster freeze due to Greenway injury status??

[mjd1001]

4 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

True. The Zegras rumors are real and there might be substance to the Cozens and Byram for Petterson rumor. That's not what we need though. We need leadership, we don't need to be team Sweden and Cozens for Zegras would be even less leadership not more. 

I think it's too late to trade youth for veterans though. That ship sailed in the summer. You do that now you just get guys who play out the string. The season is already over so you either do nothing (likely their plan) and dump your UFAs or you tear it all down and try again. In all likelihood the speed of any positive changes will be far too slow to make a difference any time soon. 

I agree.

Plus, you want GOOD veterans. Not the guys who are suited for the 4th line or barely good enough for the 3rd line. 

The problem is, THOSE guys who are better than that are mostly on teams that are still in the playoff hunt.  Who is going to want to give you a good, veteran piece that is playing well now.... for a younger guy with potentially more upside but who isn't a guarantee and is likely a step back for you this year? No team that is still in the playoff hunt.

"Hey, I know you have a no movement, but would you do us a solid and waive that?  We are likely making the playoffs, but I really want to trade you. So can you waive that no trade clause, pack up your family and move to Buffalo and play for a team that is going no where this year?"  How do you think that will go over?

And the 2nd issue is, if it is a GOOD player who is a veteran you are targeting, some (not all but some) of those guys have no trade or no movement clauses. I think there are very few guys who will waive those to come to Buffalo, to a team that is certainly worse than the one they are on.

There might literally be no market for ANYTHING other than more youth/reclamation projects for the Sabres.

Edited 15 hours ago by mjd1001

[PerreaultForever]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

Then you're right back to where you began. Are we growing our own and being patient or do we want a quick fix, which frankly won't happen?

Of course. Another 5 year cycle and if the same people run it the same results. 

This roster is poorly constructed. I don't think many people would disagree with that. The team is too young and lacks veteran leadership. I think most people agree with that too. 

So the talk is nobody wants to come and we are on everybody's no trade lists. That's Adams claim overall. He'd like to add and tried to trade but he just can't. Maybe that's true. 13 years who wouldn't put Buffalo on their lists? The problem that this has created, that Pegula has created, is that in this reality their solution is to let the young players grow and age and become the leaders, but this takes way too long, they don't know how to be leaders at this level, and they lose their love for hockey, stay fragile and end up losing every time and sometimes accepting it. And thus 5 year cycle we get rid of the next bunch. No way to end that without a complete do over under new and better management. 

[PerreaultForever]

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I agree.

Plus, you want GOOD veterans. Not the guys who are suited for the 4th line or barely good enough for the 3rd line. 

The problem is, THOSE guys who are better than that are mostly on teams that are still in the playoff hunt.  Who is going to want to give you a good, veteran piece that is playing well now.... for a younger guy with potentially more upside but who isn't a guarantee and is likely a step back for you this year? No team that is still in the playoff hunt.

"Hey, I know you have a no movement, but would you do us a solid and waive that?  We are likely making the playoffs, but I really want to trade you. So can you waive that no trade clause, pack up your family and move to Buffalo and play for a team that is going no where this year?"  How do you think that will go over?

And the 2nd issue is, if it is a GOOD player who is a veteran you are targeting, some (not all but some) of those guys have no trade or no movement clauses. I think there are very few guys who will waive those to come to Buffalo, to a team that is certainly worse than the one they are on.

There might literally be no market for ANYTHING other than more youth/reclamation projects for the Sabres.

True. That's the problem. Hence, as I posted in one of the threads, full Shorsey, radical scorched earth is the only option now to change the culture. Three or four veteran sons of ***** who are mean and nasty and hate to lose. Make them the captain and assistants. Whip the rest of them into shape or ship them out of town. Maybe we are a thug show for a few years but in time, the culture will finally change, and a day might come where opposition teams say "Buffalo tomorrow night? Oh man I hate going into that building."

[mjd1001]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

True. That's the problem. Hence, as I posted in one of the threads, full Shorsey, radical scorched earth is the only option now to change the culture. Three or four veteran sons of ***** who are mean and nasty and hate to lose. Make them the captain and assistants. Whip the rest of them into shape or ship them out of town. Maybe we are a thug show for a few years but in time, the culture will finally change, and a day might come where opposition teams say "Buffalo tomorrow night? Oh man I hate going into that building."

Yeah. 

So this isn't going to happen, but move some major pieces.  If Pettersson was available and you could make a move with Cozens as the centerpiece, do it. But not just that. Now move another regular for another player from another team. I'm only really tied to Dahlin and Tage, I'll move anyone else (yes, including Peterka, Benson, Power, anyone)

So get a guy like Pettersson, get another 'talented' youngster.  Remove Cozens and someone else at the same time.  Now add to that your idea...Bring in 2-3 guys for the bottom line, the type of guys you said.

The team may or may not be better. The team still won't make the playoffs this year. But it would be something both DIFFERENT and possibly EXCITING for the fans to watch for the rest of the year. And maybe, just maybe, help some young guys develop a bit to be better next year.

[PerreaultForever]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Yeah. 

So this isn't going to happen, but move some major pieces.  If Pettersson was available and you could make a move with Cozens as the centerpiece, do it. But not just that. Now move another regular for another player from another team. I'm only really tied to Dahlin and Tage, I'll move anyone else (yes, including Peterka, Benson, Power, anyone)

So get a guy like Pettersson, get another 'talented' youngster.  Remove Cozens and someone else at the same time.  Now add to that your idea...Bring in 2-3 guys for the bottom line, the type of guys you said.

The team may or may not be better. The team still won't make the playoffs this year. But it would be something both DIFFERENT and possibly EXCITING for the fans to watch for the rest of the year. And maybe, just maybe, help some young guys develop a bit to be better next year.

The problem I have with Pettersson is the narrative coming out of Vancouver. The perception is that him and Miller just do not get along and Miller is a leader and full accountability guy. Very vocal and calls people out, but also steps up himself so no hypocrisy. So if Vancouver, under Tocchet, is looking to move a talented guy like Pettersson it makes me question character and work ethic and thus, although he might be a Sabres fit in some ways, winning might not come along with that and things might actually get worse. 

[DarthEbriate]

5 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

The problem I have with Pettersson is the narrative coming out of Vancouver. The perception is that him and Miller just do not get along and Miller is a leader and full accountability guy. Very vocal and calls people out, but also steps up himself so no hypocrisy. So if Vancouver, under Tocchet, is looking to move a talented guy like Pettersson it makes me question character and work ethic and thus, although he might be a Sabres fit in some ways, winning might not come along with that and things might actually get worse. 

I concur. The knock on Pettersson is he's not going to pay the price and outwork people, but he will dangle and shoot from the perimeter. He'd fit in with the current Sabres roster. 

You could argue that having TNT and Pettersson, who are both capable of being 1st line centers, would be excellent. The issue becomes, if you have one of those guys as your 1C, your 2C really must be an all-around stud to get the hard and defensive minutes. Cozens hasn't become that guy. McLeod would likely be a bit overextended in that role, but then you're playing TNT on Pettersson's wing.

[Archie Lee]

I think there is a scenario where you can have a contending team that includes a core of Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Dahlin, Power, and Luukkonen. While the Sabre have done a poor job supporting there other young players, it is this core who they have failed the lost. This core was ready last year and instead of supporting them with meaningful veteran additions Adams was complacent and neglectful. It is not too late to add to this group and help them win. It will take some courage to move on from 2-4 younger players in order to support the core they had already committed to. 

[Believer]

38 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Three or four veteran sons of ***** who are mean and nasty and hate to lose. Make them the captain and assistants.

Bingo. 

Show our kids how to play the game with heart and determination to win every game.

Too late to do it now. Would have to be an off season marketing, wining and dining, and silly money campaign to lure those type of vets here. 

A city wide effort involving former and current Sabres and Bills players and spouses, sportswriters, school administrators et al to sell  Buffalo as a great place to live and play.

[Jorcus]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

True. That's the problem. Hence, as I posted in one of the threads, full Shorsey, radical scorched earth is the only option now to change the culture. Three or four veteran sons of ***** who are mean and nasty and hate to lose. Make them the captain and assistants. Whip the rest of them into shape or ship them out of town. Maybe we are a thug show for a few years but in time, the culture will finally change, and a day might come where opposition teams say "Buffalo tomorrow night? Oh man I hate going into that building."

 

It's not the worst idea top bring in 3 or 4 hitters and at least watch games where we are the tougher bunch. I don't think I want them running our own guys. I don't really want to swap our good players. It's the middle 6 that's the problem. If it were me I would shed Quinn, Benson and Krebs Before I was trading away Cozens and Byram. Replace those three with some big hitters and watch the Ice open up for the other guys. You need another big guy for the back end so out goes Joker or Bryson or both. A little different style and maybe Sammy finds his game clearing space again. 

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Jorcus said:

 

It's not the worst idea top bring in 3 or 4 hitters and at least watch games where we are the tougher bunch. I don't think I want them running our own guys. I don't really want to swap our good players. It's the middle 6 that's the problem. If it were me I would shed Quinn, Benson and Krebs Before I was trading away Cozens and Byram. Replace those three with some big hitters and watch the Ice open up for the other guys. You need another big guy for the back end so out goes Joker or Bryson or both. A little different style and maybe Sammy finds his game clearing space again. 

Makes me wonder how much Lindy just was hired and took the money, or was promised more influence than he actually has.  

-Lindy has always talked about the value of an enforcer. In an interview with Rob Ray he said he appreciated his role on the teams of the past, he said it really opened things up for other players with him on the bench.  This was further reinforced when he said it in another intervier (not about Ray) in the offseason. And he had one just last year in New Jersey (MacDermid).

-Also, he really didn't get to bring in his choice of coaches.

It seems like if were up to Lindy, the roster might have more of those tougher to play against guys, but instead he might have been hired with "here is the deck of cards, play your best hand with what you have."

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Believer said:

Bingo. 

Show our kids how to play the game with heart and determination to win every game.

Too late to do it now. Would have to be an off season marketing, wining and dining, and silly money campaign to lure those type of vets here. 

A city wide effort involving former and current Sabres and Bills players and spouses, sportswriters, school administrators et al to sell  Buffalo as a great place to live and play.

By contrast, this is our current leadership. Rasmus Dahlin postgame: "I think we were doing some good stuff and then bad stuff and we got scored on. I think it was bad puck decisions that cost us a couple goals." Seriously wtf is that. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Jorcus said:

 

It's not the worst idea top bring in 3 or 4 hitters and at least watch games where we are the tougher bunch. I don't think I want them running our own guys. I don't really want to swap our good players. It's the middle 6 that's the problem. If it were me I would shed Quinn, Benson and Krebs Before I was trading away Cozens and Byram. Replace those three with some big hitters and watch the Ice open up for the other guys. You need another big guy for the back end so out goes Joker or Bryson or both. A little different style and maybe Sammy finds his game clearing space again. 

In essence you bring back the lunch bucket days, you have fun with it and enjoy it and you build from there. 

We have been talent first then culture, we need culture first and then talent and if we have to give up some talent to change that I say fine.