Elliotte Friedman is reporting Pegula will meet the team in Montreal

[HumanSlinky39]

37 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Really?   Not seeing anything similar to the Bills.   

There is no current Sabre even remotely like Allen.  They had Eichel, we saw how he was developed and supported and it was not good.  

The Sabres had "Diggs" already, his name was Reinhart, and they let him go  just as he reached his prime.  

Hockey and football are not comparable.  The draft in each sport could not be more different. 

No Sabres Coach could establish a culture and get the players respect like McDermott .  No Sabres GM can compare to Beane.  

The Bills let Diggs, Morse, Davis, Hyde, Poyer, and Tre White all go after last season, most of them were captains.  The media wrote them off, yet they are even better this year than last.  Beane is simply light years beyond Adams.  

Adams should be modelling the culture building that McDermott and Beane did.  All I hear is excuses.  

 

 

 

What's worse is the return for guys have become franchise players elsewhere.

Eichel netted a solid winger in Tuch, who is a second line guy on a good team, but he's been a default first line guy here. Krebs is a decent bottom six energy guy, but not likely to become more. The VGK 1st rounder became Östlund who has yet to reach the NHL, so no idea what we have there.

Reinhart became Devon Levi who has struggled in sporadic NHL action, but may still develop down the road and Jiri Kulich who is just now seeing his first regular NHL action, but still has a ways to go. He looks like he could become a decent middle six Centerman.

So you dealt away two star cornerstone pieces for a veteran second line winger, a bottom 6 forward, two forward prospects who we're not sure what they'll become yet, though I don't think either is expected to become a superstar, and a goalie who may or may not become a viable NHL netminder. This is why this rebuild isn't going anywhere.

I know neither Jack or Sam wanted to be here anymore, but whose fault is that?

Edited December 18 by HumanSlinky39

[Doohicksie]

Okay, Terry.  Your public appearance backfired.  There is only one solution:  Sell the team.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Well,  that did not work.... maybe a stern taking too.

[Taro T]

Have said for a long time that Adams (after the obligatory single kick at the can while Eichel was still here flamed out) has been building a team on Dahlin's timeline.  They expect the team to be a true contender in ~2 years.

Personally, do believe they thought they'd put together a team that could make the playoffs this year; it wasn't going to do anything should it get there, but simply getting there would've been a victory in itself.  And this team was, on a points %age basis IN a playoff spot on Thanksgiving.  And that was with Dahlin being at only ~75% the 1st 2-1/2 - 3 weeks.  This team without the guy they are building around is NOT good enough as we have been watching since the 2nd minute of the 3rd period of the Avs game.

Stinks that Cozens, Quinn, and to a lesser degree Samuelsson have all been disappointments this year.  Had they not all underperformed significantly, maybe the team would've been in a less tenuous spot when Dahlin went out &/or maybe they could've kept from falling off the face of the hockey map when Dahlin went out.

Am quite frustrated, because do not expect them to make any major moves this year (the season still MIGHT be saved with 1 more top 4 D-man and 1 more top 6 F (ideally a C, but even a W would help)) unless Adams can make a deal that doesn't take away from that squad 2 years from now.

The other frustrating thing is depending upon just exactly what the back injury Dahlin has, we may never see him give the Sabres more than 60 games of the Norris caliber D-man he can be when he's on his game.  Which kind of blows up that whole "build a team to support Dahlin at his very best through his very best years" plan.

Am fairly well resigned to Adams surviving the debacle this season is turning into.  Though have a modicum of hope that Ruff will be able to assemble a legit non "developmental" coaching staff for next season.  The other modicum of hope is that the PP is so truly horrific still that Seth Appert will be history after this season rather than the heir apparent.

It isn't a coincidence that this team has been terrible since Dahlin went out.  The "grizzled veterans" available to step up to help fill his shoes are 3rd pairing guys.  The 2 guys that are here that will be good top 4 D-men are both too darn young to pick up the slack of being the #1 when there's only 1 other legit top 4 D-man on the roster.

Won't accept that this team has absolutely no chance of making the playoffs this year, but they need a minor miracle now and definitely need the 95%+ Dahlin back to even make that minor miracle possible.  (Of course, they were one of the worst teams in the league and dead last in their division in the '97 portion of the '97-'98 season but they they turned on the afterburners and didn't look back for a full calendar year.  So, in the season of miracles, maybe they can happen.)

[Andrew Amerk]

I guess thinking just because you write their checks, that they would be motivated by your presence, was a foolish thought. 
 

Great job Terry. Hockey Heaven my a$$. 
 

I can’t wait to watch Tage, Dahlin, Cozens, and UPL win Cups with other teams one day, just like I’ve had to do with ROR, Eichel, Samson, Ullmark, and Okposo. 

Edited December 18 by Andrew Amerk

[Thorner]

16 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Have said for a long time that Adams (after the obligatory single kick at the can while Eichel was still here flamed out) has been building a team on Dahlin's timeline.  They expect the team to be a true contender in ~2 years.

Personally, do believe they thought they'd put together a team that could make the playoffs this year; it wasn't going to do anything should it get there, but simply getting there would've been a victory in itself.  And this team was, on a points %age basis IN a playoff spot on Thanksgiving.  And that was with Dahlin being at only ~75% the 1st 2-1/2 - 3 weeks.  This team without the guy they are building around is NOT good enough as we have been watching since the 2nd minute of the 3rd period of the Avs game.

Stinks that Cozens, Quinn, and to a lesser degree Samuelsson have all been disappointments this year.  Had they not all underperformed significantly, maybe the team would've been in a less tenuous spot when Dahlin went out &/or maybe they could've kept from falling off the face of the hockey map when Dahlin went out.

Am quite frustrated, because do not expect them to make any major moves this year (the season still MIGHT be saved with 1 more top 4 D-man and 1 more top 6 F (ideally a C, but even a W would help)) unless Adams can make a deal that doesn't take away from that squad 2 years from now.

The other frustrating thing is depending upon just exactly what the back injury Dahlin has, we may never see him give the Sabres more than 60 games of the Norris caliber D-man he can be when he's on his game.  Which kind of blows up that whole "build a team to support Dahlin at his very best through his very best years" plan.

Am fairly well resigned to Adams surviving the debacle this season is turning into.  Though have a modicum of hope that Ruff will be able to assemble a legit non "developmental" coaching staff for next season.  The other modicum of hope is that the PP is so truly horrific still that Seth Appert will be history after this season rather than the heir apparent.

It isn't a coincidence that this team has been terrible since Dahlin went out.  The "grizzled veterans" available to step up to help fill his shoes are 3rd pairing guys.  The 2 guys that are here that will be good top 4 D-men are both too darn young to pick up the slack of being the #1 when there's only 1 other legit top 4 D-man on the roster.

Won't accept that this team has absolutely no chance of making the playoffs this year, but they need a minor miracle now and definitely need the 95%+ Dahlin back to even make that minor miracle possible.  (Of course, they were one of the worst teams in the league and dead last in their division in the '97 portion of the '97-'98 season but they they turned on the afterburners and didn't look back for a full calendar year.  So, in the season of miracles, maybe they can happen.)

Adams is getting fired 

[Andrew Amerk]

3 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Adams is getting fired 

Sure, and Winona Ryder is marrying me on Xmas. 

[Thorner]

1 minute ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Sure, and Winona Ryder is marrying me on Xmas. 

Beetlejuice beetlejuice Beetlejuice!

[PerreaultForever]

I don't think Pegula is a stupid man. You generally don't build a business empire by being a moron, but how did he really think players would take it when he says to them we are not going to spend any more money and there is no help coming and you are on your own. Which is a different way of spinning his comments. 

[SDS]

4 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Nah, I meant your take.

I don't watch that guy. I tried once when a video of his was posted here. Not my cuppa.

Super weird. I watched the video and made note of what he said and what he didn’t say. It’s not an opinion at all.

[JohnC]

54 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Have said for a long time that Adams (after the obligatory single kick at the can while Eichel was still here flamed out) has been building a team on Dahlin's timeline.  They expect the team to be a true contender in ~2 years.

Personally, do believe they thought they'd put together a team that could make the playoffs this year; it wasn't going to do anything should it get there, but simply getting there would've been a victory in itself.  And this team was, on a points %age basis IN a playoff spot on Thanksgiving.  And that was with Dahlin being at only ~75% the 1st 2-1/2 - 3 weeks.  This team without the guy they are building around is NOT good enough as we have been watching since the 2nd minute of the 3rd period of the Avs game.

Stinks that Cozens, Quinn, and to a lesser degree Samuelsson have all been disappointments this year.  Had they not all underperformed significantly, maybe the team would've been in a less tenuous spot when Dahlin went out &/or maybe they could've kept from falling off the face of the hockey map when Dahlin went out.

Am quite frustrated, because do not expect them to make any major moves this year (the season still MIGHT be saved with 1 more top 4 D-man and 1 more top 6 F (ideally a C, but even a W would help)) unless Adams can make a deal that doesn't take away from that squad 2 years from now.

The other frustrating thing is depending upon just exactly what the back injury Dahlin has, we may never see him give the Sabres more than 60 games of the Norris caliber D-man he can be when he's on his game.  Which kind of blows up that whole "build a team to support Dahlin at his very best through his very best years" plan.

Am fairly well resigned to Adams surviving the debacle this season is turning into.  Though have a modicum of hope that Ruff will be able to assemble a legit non "developmental" coaching staff for next season.  The other modicum of hope is that the PP is so truly horrific still that Seth Appert will be history after this season rather than the heir apparent.

It isn't a coincidence that this team has been terrible since Dahlin went out.  The "grizzled veterans" available to step up to help fill his shoes are 3rd pairing guys.  The 2 guys that are here that will be good top 4 D-men are both too darn young to pick up the slack of being the #1 when there's only 1 other legit top 4 D-man on the roster.

Won't accept that this team has absolutely no chance of making the playoffs this year, but they need a minor miracle now and definitely need the 95%+ Dahlin back to even make that minor miracle possible.  (Of course, they were one of the worst teams in the league and dead last in their division in the '97 portion of the '97-'98 season but they they turned on the afterburners and didn't look back for a full calendar year.  So, in the season of miracles, maybe they can happen.)

I think you are excessively optimistic about the prospects for the not-too-distant future that this GM and franchise is facing. The hideous disarray that is evident right now is going to reverberate to the point where our options will be limited in attaining help from the free agent market and in making trades because there are so many no trade clauses. Next year, Byram is going to be in his UFA year. Do you think that he has much appetite to stay here with this lagging franchise rather than pursue better options somewhere else? If that materializes, then the Mitts trade will turn into another boondoggle just as with the Eichel and Reinhart scenarios. 

The plummeting of this team has stunned me. I didn't expect it. The players seem to be just as dazed as the HC seems to be. Who would have thought that there is less structure and cohesion now than under Granato, the developmental coach. 

I'm simply at a loss for words trying to understand what has happened. Because of this ignominious/embarrassing losing streak, the erosion of the already withering fan base will accelerate. The damage to this franchise is self-inflected. It starts with the top of the pyramid. It's both sad and pathetic. 

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

31 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't think Pegula is a stupid man. You generally don't build a business empire by being a moron, but how did he really think players would take it when he says to them we are not going to spend any more money and there is no help coming and you are on your own. Which is a different way of spinning his comments. 

Why are people so literal about this?  The guy flew to a different country after an enormous win by the team he owns that is worth 5x the Sabres.  Did you want the sources to say it's fire and brimstone?  It's pretty clear this regime is on thin ice.  The question is who gets traded or fired.  Or both.  

[Archie Lee]

7 minutes ago, Darryl Shannon's +/- said:

Why are people so literal about this?  The guy flew to a different country after an enormous win by the team he owns that is worth 5x the Sabres.  Did you want the sources to say it's fire and brimstone?  It's pretty clear this regime is on thin ice.  The question is who gets traded or fired.  Or both.  

Yeah, I think the reported accounts of the meeting are open to interpretation. I doubt Pegula said there will be no trades. More likely, in my view, the message was to not be looking over your shoulder or waiting on a big move. At some point something has to give. 

[HumanSlinky39]

Any reports on how this played out?

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't think Pegula is a stupid man. You generally don't build a business empire by being a moron, but how did he really think players would take it when he says to them we are not going to spend any more money and there is no help coming and you are on your own. Which is a different way of spinning his comments. 

He's definitely not a stupid man. He is just ill-equipped to own a hockey team.

[Mango]

“You guys are the best. I know you’re good hockey players. Just keep doing what you’re doing, you have it in you”

-Terry Pegula

Easily the biggest indictment that accountability starts at the top. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

Yeah, I think the reported accounts of the meeting are open to interpretation. I doubt Pegula said there will be no trades. More likely, in my view, the message was to not be looking over your shoulder or waiting on a big move. At some point something has to give. 

Sure, don't go with what was reported about being said, just make up whatever you believe might have been said and go with that. Why not. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Secret video from Pegula’s talk with the team

 

[SabresBillsFan]

3 hours ago, Darryl Shannon's +/- said:

Why are people so literal about this?  The guy flew to a different country after an enormous win by the team he owns that is worth 5x the Sabres.  Did you want the sources to say it's fire and brimstone?  It's pretty clear this regime is on thin ice.  The question is who gets traded or fired.  Or both.  

Don’t kid yourself people, if it wasn’t for Allen the Bills would probably just be a middle of the road type team. The problem is the Bills will continue to lose in the playoffs until they get a legit playmaker on offense and upgrade the defense. They can’t stop the run and remember defense wins championships. 

[Kristian]

6 hours ago, Mango said:

“You guys are the best. I know you’re good hockey players. Just keep doing what you’re doing, you have it in you”

-Terry Pegula

Easily the biggest indictment that accountability starts at the top. 

And in this case, failure starts at the top too.

Good lord, the man is an idiot.

[Archie Lee]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Sure, don't go with what was reported about being said, just make up whatever you believe might have been said and go with that. Why not. 

First of all, I agree with your post about how the players may have took the message. Indeed, I’ve been saying for some time now that the team culture, that had shifted to positive by the end of 22-23, has slid very badly and that the reason for this is that the owner and GM have not committed to winning. It’s been said by many an insider that there are times at the trade deadline that a team will slip if management doesn’t make a meaningful acquisition. The culture in the room can change to: “If this doesn’t matter to the GM, why should it matter to us?”.  I think we may have seen that last night. I do not blame the players for any of this. 

That said, everyone is making up what was said when Pegula met the team.  None of us were there. I just don’t think he said we are not making any changes the rest of the year.  I’m sure Pegula didn’t want to fire Krueger, but things got so bad he had no choice. We are more than 1/2 way there after last night.

Also, if we are going to take the literal approach, they only said not to expect a “big” trade. What is a big trade? Does that mean lots of players?  Or big name players?  Or lots of big name players?  And how long does this trade moratorium last. Until Christmas?  The trade deadline?  The draft?  Forever?  What was said exactly?

Edited December 18 by Archie Lee

[nucci]

9 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Sure, and Winona Ryder is marrying me on Xmas. 

congratulations.

[Pimlach]

11 hours ago, Darryl Shannon's +/- said:

Why are people so literal about this?  The guy flew to a different country after an enormous win by the team he owns that is worth 5x the Sabres.  Did you want the sources to say it's fire and brimstone?  It's pretty clear this regime is on thin ice.  The question is who gets traded or fired.  Or both.  

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

12 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't think Pegula is a stupid man. You generally don't build a business empire by being a moron

I wish that was the case, but success in business does not always coorelate to intelligence.  See My Pillow for a clear example.

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

It might be wrong and this time Pegula is just going to dig in and let things spiral further and further out of control. But I don’t think he is on an island. There are likely people around him other than Adams who will tell him that things are beyond repair as is. His kids perhaps?  Guelli maybe? Ruff?  Maybe Adams asks for mercy at some point. 

This reminds me of when Krueger was fired. Things seemed hopeless and as though nothing would be done. But the negativity became overwhelming and something had to give. Once the national media start mocking you, it is tough to ignore. Maybe it’s different this time and Pegula is weighing what makes him a bigger laughing stock:  firing Adams and hiring his 5th GM or not firing Adams and hoping that somehow against all odds things don’t degenerate even further. 

It is just depressing all around. 

[mjd1001]

33 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

It might be wrong and this time Pegula is just going to dig in and let things spiral further and further out of control. But I don’t think he is on an island. There are likely people around him other than Adams who will tell him that things are beyond repair as is. His kids perhaps?  Guelli maybe? Ruff?  Maybe Adams asks for mercy at some point. 

This reminds me of when Krueger was fired. Things seemed hopeless and as though nothing would be done. But the negativity became overwhelming and something had to give. Once the national media start mocking you, it is tough to ignore. Maybe it’s different this time and Pegula is weighing what makes him a bigger laughing stock:  firing Adams and hiring his 5th GM or not firing Adams and hoping that somehow against all odds things don’t degenerate even further. 

It is just depressing all around. 

The Bills success might be a negative this time.

Pegula can just ignore the mocking of the Sabres whenever he wants.  Everytime he feels any pressure or mocking based on his ownership of the Sabres, he just closes his eyes and plugs his ears until he can open up the "NFL" news page and look for the first article about the Bills, and then he is happy again.