Elliotte Friedman is reporting Pegula will meet the team in Montreal

[darksabre]

27 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I mostly agree. I would guess that Adams would prefer to have more money to spend. I don’t think Pegula is micromanaging what Adams does spend the available resources on. I think Pegula will spend more if a good case can be made, but Adams knows better than to go to that well too often. 

That's why I'm hesitant to call it an Austerity plan. I think Pegula has spent PLENTY of money on players that have gotten the team no further ahead.

I think Adams has made the case that he doesn't need to do that, at least not in the short term. "Spend the money when it counts" is likely the ethos driving things.

Given how badly the team has played so far this season, I think it's possible that spending to the cap wouldn't have improved their position much. It's debatable, but I think it's an argument that should be entertained.

What's the ROI on spending to the cap with this current team? It probably isn't the playoffs, as we are seeing now.

It would not surprise me at all that the consensus inside the building, among the stats folks, Adams, and Terry, was the same this offseason. Which I'm sure will upset many people.

[Thorner]

Friedman was on The Fan Hockey Show today

- said the name of the game right now with Buffalo is patience. The franchise is preaching patience 

- wonders how long they can preach that considering the fan base

3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

That's why I'm hesitant to call it an Austerity plan. I think Pegula has spent PLENTY of money on players that have gotten the team no further ahead.

I think Adams has made the case that he doesn't need to do that, at least not in the short term. "Spend the money when it counts" is likely the ethos driving things.

Given how badly the team has played so far this season, I think it's possible that spending to the cap wouldn't have improved their position much. It's debatable, but I think it's an argument that should be entertained.

What's the ROI on spending to the cap with this current team? It probably isn't the playoffs, as we are seeing now.

It would not surprise me at all that the consensus inside the building, among the stats folks, Adams, and Terry, was the same this offseason. Which I'm sure will upset many people.

“We haven’t built a good enough team so it’s not worth spending more on it”

Ok? lol 

[Archie Lee]

10 minutes ago, darksabre said:

That's why I'm hesitant to call it an Austerity plan. I think Pegula has spent PLENTY of money on players that have gotten the team no further ahead.

I think Adams has made the case that he doesn't need to do that, at least not in the short term. "Spend the money when it counts" is likely the ethos driving things.

Given how badly the team has played so far this season, I think it's possible that spending to the cap wouldn't have improved their position much. It's debatable, but I think it's an argument that should be entertained.

What's the ROI on spending to the cap with this current team? It probably isn't the playoffs, as we are seeing now.

It would not surprise me at all that the consensus inside the building, among the stats folks, Adams, and Terry, was the same this offseason. Which I'm sure will upset many people.

Well, I don't fully agree with this.  I think there is an austerity plan and that Adams is on board with it.  That doesn't mean that Adams wouldn't prefer to be a GM without such financial restraints.  Rather, I think he knows who pays his salary and that it is best to support the vision that keeps him in his position. 

I know that Adams has commented before that he is hesitant to give out long-term deals to UFA's or to trade for older players, because he needs to retain space to sign the next group of RFAs (Peterka, Quinn, Byram, McLeod, Levi after this year, Benson after next year). Some have interpreted that to mean that we will eventually spend to the cap, and for now Adams is just saving the space for his own guys. The flaw with this is that it was never the case that all of these players would "hit".  Indeed, it is starting to look as though some of the players he already signed long-term did not actually "hit" (Samuelsson, maybe Cozens).  As I type this, only Byram of the upcoming RFAs looks like a player worthy of a long-term deal.  Saving money for players who might never be worth the money you are saving, is not a good way to build a winning NHL team. He could have spent on a couple of veteran additions and then sorted out later who gets a big raise, who gets a small raise, and who gets traded. That's what most NHL teams who see themselves as playoff contenders do, I think.  

[Pimlach]

4 hours ago, darksabre said:

I'm not going to defend Adams, but I have a hard time with the classification of him as a puppet. It's a little melodramatic.

I think it's more likely that he and Pegula are simply in agreement on how to proceed. We may not like it, but I don't think that makes him a puppet.

Keep in mind that if he wants to have a career as an NHL GM, he's investing in himself here. Being a yes-man probably doesn't land him another job. But being the guy who finally got Terry Pegula to stick to a plan does... if it works.

If it works.  It’s not working now.   Let it play out but so far this is more regression. I want Adams to succeed but I don’t know about his management and roster building skills, so far they are not on display are they?   How many years will this take.  Sooner or later the law of averages comes in.  
 

Edited Tuesday at 08:53 PM by Pimlach

[sabremike]

Adams is uniquely horrible in that he simply is incapable of grasping the concept of roster construction. His trades and drafts have been nothing more than grabbing pieces with absolutely no regard to if they fit. The Byram trade was Peak Adams: Trades someone at a position where we are weak/have no depth for a guy who is completely redundant and adds NOTHING to what we already have.

[darksabre]

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

Friedman was on The Fan Hockey Show today

- said the name of the game right now with Buffalo is patience. The franchise is preaching patience 

- wonders how long they can preach that considering the fan base

“We haven’t built a good enough team so it’s not worth spending more on it”

Ok? lol 

It sounds ridiculous, but it aligns with what we're seeing, does it not?

 

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

Well, I don't fully agree with this.  I think there is an austerity plan and that Adams is on board with it.  That doesn't mean that Adams wouldn't prefer to be a GM without such financial restraints.  Rather, I think he knows who pays his salary and that it is best to support the vision that keeps him in his position. 

I know that Adams has commented before that he is hesitant to give out long-term deals to UFA's or to trade for older players, because he needs to retain space to sign the next group of RFAs (Peterka, Quinn, Byram, McLeod, Levi after this year, Benson after next year). Some have interpreted that to mean that we will eventually spend to the cap, and for now Adams is just saving the space for his own guys. The flaw with this is that it was never the case that all of these players would "hit".  Indeed, it is starting to look as though some of the players he already signed long-term did not actually "hit" (Samuelsson, maybe Cozens).  As I type this, only Byram of the upcoming RFAs looks like a player worthy of a long-term deal.  Saving money for players who might never be worth the money you are saving, is not a good way to build a winning NHL team. He could have spent on a couple of veteran additions and then sorted out later who gets a big raise, who gets a small raise, and who gets traded. That's what most NHL teams who see themselves as playoff contenders do, I think.  

I'm not saying there isn't a better approach, like what you're suggesting (which I agree with). I just think they've decided to go with the plan of holding that cap space open and planning to pay guys even if they haven't hit yet.

 

44 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

If it works.  It’s not working now.   Let it play out but so far this is more regression. I want Adams to succeed but I don’t know about his management and roster building skills, so far ithey are not on display are they?   How many years will this take.  Sooner or later the law of averages comes in.  
 

I generally think they aren't planning to hit the playoffs in earnest until 2027. Any attempts at arriving earlier will be due to younger guys exceeding expectations.

[HumanSlinky39]

2 hours ago, Thorner said:

Friedman was on The Fan Hockey Show today

- said the name of the game right now with Buffalo is patience. The franchise is preaching patience 

- wonders how long they can preach that considering the fan base

“We haven’t built a good enough team so it’s not worth spending more on it”

Ok? lol 

This is a ridiculous expectation. Patience? For 14 years? 2 seasons ago this team, with pretty much the same core of players, went 42-33-7, 91 points and barely missed the playoffs. Then they regressed last season to 39-37-6, 84 points (a 7 point drop) and still barely missed the playoffs. This year they're 11-16-4 (a 69 point pace), have lost 10 straight and are seeing further regression pretty much across the board. Patience is one thing if you're holding steady or making small gains; it's not to be expected when you're going the other way 2 straight seasons after appearing to be on the cusp of a breakthrough. If they're serious about "patience", they're the most tone-deaf front office in pro sports history.

Edited Tuesday at 08:40 PM by HumanSlinky39

[SDS]

8 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

This is such a weird take - especially given where the franchise is, where it’s been for the past ~14 years, and where it appears headed.

If you have a complaint for the guy in the video, he probably has a comment section underneath his YouTube video.

[Archie Lee]

34 minutes ago, darksabre said:

It sounds ridiculous, but it aligns with what we're seeing, does it not?

 

I'm not saying there isn't a better approach, like what you're suggesting (which I agree with). I just think they've decided to go with the plan of holding that cap space open and planning to pay guys even if they haven't hit yet.

 

I generally think they aren't planning to hit the playoffs in earnest until 2027. Any attempts at arriving earlier will be due to younger guys exceeding expectations.

Your post is very thoughtful. I don’t think your last point is wrong, but it is hard for me to imagine they think they can string this out another two years and hold the interest of anyone. Though, I will likely still be here. 

Edited Tuesday at 08:47 PM by Archie Lee

[Pimlach]

34 minutes ago, darksabre said:

 

I generally think they aren't planning to hit the playoffs in earnest until 2027. Any attempts at arriving earlier will be due to younger guys exceeding expectations.

And if not 27, then 29?  then 31?  Sooner or later he will succeed.  Right?  

He is telling us they are planning to make playoffs right now.  He just hired a Buffalo hockey icon, they (TP/KA) better be planning and trying in earnest right now. 

[Pimlach]

41 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Adams is uniquely horrible in that he simply is incapable of grasping the concept of roster construction. His trades and drafts have been nothing more than grabbing pieces with absolutely no regard to if they fit. The Byram trade was Peak Adams: Trades someone at a position where we are weak/have no depth for a guy who is completely redundant and adds NOTHING to what we already have.

I did not like the trade either because I did not want to hand the 2C role to Cozens and I though Mitts was versatile and starting to become a mature 2-way player.  

I will add that Bryam has helped the team.  Imagine the defense without him.  Especially since Muel regressed.  

We might be able to get something for Byram when he tells he wants out this spring.  

[sabremike]

42 minutes ago, darksabre said:

It sounds ridiculous, but it aligns with what we're seeing, does it not?

 

I'm not saying there isn't a better approach, like what you're suggesting (which I agree with). I just think they've decided to go with the plan of holding that cap space open and planning to pay guys even if they haven't hit yet.

 

I generally think they aren't planning to hit the playoffs in earnest until 2027. Any attempts at arriving earlier will be due to younger guys exceeding expectations.

Hope they enjoy drawing smaller crowds than Arizona was playing in Mullet Arena until then. Next season they have a good shot at having under 6,000 season tickets sold in a league still heavily reliant on ticket revenue.

[Sidc3000]

23 minutes ago, HumanSlinky39 said:

2 seasons ago this team, with pretty much the same core of players, went 42-33-7, 91 points and barely missed the playoffs.

The whole team waaaaaay over achieved. It was an anomaly. 
 

basically Terry went there just to tell them help isn’t coming. I’m sure the players were super pumped for that speech. 🙄

 

Edited Tuesday at 09:08 PM by Sidc3000

[HumanSlinky39]

3 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

The whole team waaaaaay over achieved. It was an anomaly 

I'm coming around to that same idea. If that is the case, the GM that assembled them and seems to have an unreasonable attachment to "his guys" needs to be removed from the equation and a fresh set of eyes needs to be brought on to parse out who stays and who goes. Continuing on the same path is just burning more years.

Edited Tuesday at 09:03 PM by HumanSlinky39

[HumanSlinky39]

Lets just look at straight wins and losses, removing "loser points" from the equation, here's the Sabres' win % since 2022/23

2022/23: .512

2023/24: .476

2024/25: .355

That's NOT the direction a young team should be going as they're entering their 3rd/4th year of playing together. That indicates the roster is fatally flawed and is in need of adjustment...not more patience.

Edited Tuesday at 09:40 PM by HumanSlinky39

[Dreams Burn Down]

2 hours ago, Thorner said:

said the name of the game right now with Buffalo is patience. The franchise is preaching patience 

Patience and suffering...

 

[Sidc3000]

15 minutes ago, Dreams Burn Down said:

Patience and suffering...

 

I swear I’ve heard something like that, maybe around 10 years ago

[darksabre]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

Your post is very thoughtful. I don’t think your last point is wrong, but it is hard for me to imagine they think they can string this out another two years and hold the interest of anyone. Though, I will likely still be here. 

 

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

And if not 27, then 29?  then 31?  Sooner or later he will succeed.  Right?  

He is telling us they are planning to make playoffs right now.  He just hired a Buffalo hockey icon, they (TP/KA) better be planning and trying in earnest right now. 

 

1 hour ago, sabremike said:

Hope they enjoy drawing smaller crowds than Arizona was playing in Mullet Arena until then. Next season they have a good shot at having under 6,000 season tickets sold in a league still heavily reliant on ticket revenue.

Just to play off of these three posts all at once, given what we have seen from the team over the last few months, I think Terry has accepted that the team is going to suffer at the box office and with respect to season ticket sales. Remember, they get some help on the revenue sharing side of things from the league, so they aren't totally dead in the water even if their own ticket sales are in the tank. It's how Arizona stayed viable well past the expiration date on the milk carton.

I don't see Lindy as anything more than taking a step up from Granato. I don't think they expected him to turn these kids into a contender right away. They might have alluded to it, in order to try to keep some ticket sales up, but I doubt they believed it. The rest of their actions don't align with that idea. And Lindy is a professional, who came here to do a job, and probably knows he's basically got a free pass regardless of how the team does. His hiring put everything squarely on the players, and Pegula reinforced all of that yesterday.

It is not out of the question that the kids DO start to figure it out. I'll be very interested to see what happens if they start to find some consistency that takes them from losing a bunch of one-goal games, to winning them. Then what does Kevyn do?

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, SDS said:

If you have a complaint for the guy in the video, he probably has a comment section underneath his YouTube video.

Nah, I meant your take.

I don't watch that guy. I tried once when a video of his was posted here. Not my cuppa.

[darksabre]

Also, and people will probably hate me for saying it, but this approach does somewhat resemble what the Bills did with Allen. He was highly rated but very raw, and it has taken him time to develop into the player he is now. But they had to have faith early in his ability to rise to the challenge. They had to commit to him when other teams might have pulled the rip cord.

So I think they're looking at their highly rated draft picks, players that have shown some elite skill but lack consistency, and decided to put their faith in the raw talent and scouting that those players WILL turn out given some time to work through things.

The difference between the Bills and the Sabres is we haven't made that move yet that is comparable to bringing in Stefon Diggs. But the NHL is a harder league to take those kinds of big swings in, given the way contracts are structured, NMCs, etc.

 

[ska-T Palmtown]

28 minutes ago, darksabre said:

 

 

Just to play off of these three posts all at once, given what we have seen from the team over the last few months, I think Terry has accepted that the team is going to suffer at the box office and with respect to season ticket sales. Remember, they get some help on the revenue sharing side of things from the league, so they aren't totally dead in the water even if their own ticket sales are in the tank. It's how Arizona stayed viable well past the expiration date on the milk carton.

I don't see Lindy as anything more than taking a step up from Granato. I don't think they expected him to turn these kids into a contender right away. They might have alluded to it, in order to try to keep some ticket sales up, but I doubt they believed it. The rest of their actions don't align with that idea. And Lindy is a professional, who came here to do a job, and probably knows he's basically got a free pass regardless of how the team does. His hiring put everything squarely on the players, and Pegula reinforced all of that yesterday.

It is not out of the question that the kids DO start to figure it out. I'll be very interested to see what happens if they start to find some consistency that takes them from losing a bunch of one-goal games, to winning them. Then what does Kevyn do?

But what about the preseason video where Lindy calls the guy that was super ill and Lindy cries and tells the guy he wants to get this team to the playoffs??

Or was Lindy crying because he already knew it was not gonna happen and he hated lying to a dying guy?

[darksabre]

2 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

But what about the preseason video where Lindy calls the guy that was super ill and Lindy cries and tells the guy he wants to get this team to the playoffs??

Or was Lindy crying because he already knew it was not gonna happen and he hated lying to a dying guy?

I mean, he didn't say when. 

[shrader]

27 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I mean, he didn't say when. 

Does he have a Benjamin Button thing going on where he’s going through time backwards?

[Pimlach]

19 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Also, and people will probably hate me for saying it, but this approach does somewhat resemble what the Bills did with Allen. He was highly rated but very raw, and it has taken him time to develop into the player he is now. But they had to have faith early in his ability to rise to the challenge. They had to commit to him when other teams might have pulled the rip cord.

So I think they're looking at their highly rated draft picks, players that have shown some elite skill but lack consistency, and decided to put their faith in the raw talent and scouting that those players WILL turn out given some time to work through things.

The difference between the Bills and the Sabres is we haven't made that move yet that is comparable to bringing in Stefon Diggs. But the NHL is a harder league to take those kinds of big swings in, given the way contracts are structured, NMCs, etc.

 

Really?   Not seeing anything similar to the Bills.   

There is no current Sabre even remotely like Allen.  They had Eichel, we saw how he was developed and supported and it was not good.  

The Sabres had "Diggs" already, his name was Reinhart, and they let him go  just as he reached his prime.  

Hockey and football are not comparable.  The draft in each sport could not be more different. 

No Sabres Coach could establish a culture and get the players respect like McDermott .  No Sabres GM can compare to Beane.  

The Bills let Diggs, Morse, Davis, Hyde, Poyer, and Tre White all go after last season, most of them were captains.  The media wrote them off, yet they are even better this year than last.  Beane is simply light years beyond Adams.  

Adams should be modelling the culture building that McDermott and Beane did.  All I hear is excuses.  

 

 

 

[sabremike]

1 hour ago, darksabre said:

 

 

Just to play off of these three posts all at once, given what we have seen from the team over the last few months, I think Terry has accepted that the team is going to suffer at the box office and with respect to season ticket sales. Remember, they get some help on the revenue sharing side of things from the league, so they aren't totally dead in the water even if their own ticket sales are in the tank. It's how Arizona stayed viable well past the expiration date on the milk carton.

They didn't "stay viable": The league was keeping the team on life support because they were desperate to remain in the market. I honestly don't think you understand how catastrophic a 6,000 season ticket base is (particularly in what is by far the smallest American market).