Which current Sabres is part of the solution? Who is part of the problem?

[GASabresIUFAN]

It’s hard to see right now, but I still believe despite my angry posts that there are pieces on this current roster that could be molded into a winner with the right GM and coaches.

I’ve added poll questions to gauge how others feel.

Here is my lists of players who could be part of the solution, players who are part of the problem, players who are just roster filler and players need more info to see wherevthey fall.

1) - Solution - Thompson, Benson, JJP, Zucker, Greenway, Dahlin, UPL.  Tuch?

TNT is the Sabres best forward and tries on the defensive end.  Benson because he actually gives a crap, works hard every shift and should continue to get better.  He is one of the few Sabres with playmaking skills.  JJP has a high motor and excellent skills.  He needs more time to develop on both ends.  Zucker and Greenway are two of the few Sabres who give maximum effort on every shift.  They are both UFAs and I’d like to see both comeback.   Dahlin is our only good D on both ends of the ice.  UPL has developed into an excellent goalie and Levi is still maturing.  They could be a very effective tandem on a winning club with better D in front of them. Tuch is certainly one of the Sabres best forwards and given his cheap contract, he is part of the solution for now.

2) Part of the problem - Cozens, Samuelsson, Power, Jokiharju, and Bryson

Samuelsson can’t stay healthy, provides no offense and has regressed defensively.  Time to say goodbye, assuming we can dump his contract.  Power - $8 mill a season for a 6’6 225 lbs D, who won’t hit anyone, is terrible in the D zone and is our 3rd best offensive D.  He needs to go.  Jokiharju and Byrson are equally inept at both ends of the ice.  Thank g-d both are UFAs at season’s end. Cozens is supposed to be a goal scoring 2nd line center.  He is a terrible center, terrible playmaker, is a turnover machine,doesn't get back on  D and his goal scoring has fallen off a cliff.  $7 mill a year for this level of play is unforgivable.

3) Roster filler - McLeod, Krebs, Kubel, Malenstyn, Lafferty, Clifton

Only McLeod has shown anything approaching usefulness and that is sporadic at best.  The rest are replacement or sub-replacement level players.  So glad KA gave up a 2nd for Malenstyn and Savoie for McLeod. 

4) Not sure who they are yet.  Quinn, Byram, Kulich, Levi

Quinn has shown too much skill already in his young career to be dismissed, but this year has been horrendous by all measures.  Not sure why.  Byram ‘s O skills are undeniable, but so are his lack of D skills.  If we move on from Power, I’m ok with keeping Byram as long as he gets a D responsible partner.  At least he does seem to play hard unlike Power.  Kulich is a rookie who seems to be improving game by game. Levi was awful to start in the NHL, but has been excellent in the A.  Not sure why the disconnect.  Does he have more responsible D in the A or is he just better in the slower AHL game?

 

Edited December 15 by GASabresIUFAN

[SABRES 0311]

Looks like the board agrees on a lot with minor deviations. 

[PerreaultForever]

I'm not going to click on anybody and you know that the "problem" here today is the "solution" on his next team, you just know that. I'm not doing it again. 

It's the franchise and the ownership NOT the players. 

[SABRES 0311]

47 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm not going to click on anybody and you know that the "problem" here today is the "solution" on his next team, you just know that. I'm not doing it again. 

It's the franchise and the ownership NOT the players. 

I’m not a fan of ownership or GM but they are not the ones causing players to overpass, miss the net, be passive, so on.

[PerreaultForever]

6 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

I’m not a fan of ownership or GM but they are not the ones causing players to overpass, miss the net, be passive, so on.

But yes they are. They have created this culture. We've changed the players after blaming them many times already. There's a deeper underlying problem. otherwise the players leaving wouldn't get good and win cups after leaving would they. 

This will be hard to believe, but right now, as he is currently, Risto would be the second best D man on this team. When he left here, he was barely an NHL D man at all. 

[SABRES 0311]

7 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

But yes they are. They have created this culture. We've changed the players after blaming them many times already. There's a deeper underlying problem. otherwise the players leaving wouldn't get good and win cups after leaving would they. 

This will be hard to believe, but right now, as he is currently, Risto would be the second best D man on this team. When he left here, he was barely an NHL D man at all. 

I’m sure Gudas would turn into Power 2.0 if he came here just because KA/TP, not. Malenstyn, Benson, and Greenway don’t play like Power, Cozens, and Quinn.

I blame management for filling the roster with inherently weak players for top roles. But they are weak and that’s on them.

[Archie Lee]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm not going to click on anybody and you know that the "problem" here today is the "solution" on his next team, you just know that. I'm not doing it again. 

It's the franchise and the ownership NOT the players. 

Well said. I think every one of our players could play a role on a winning NHL team. This topic, in my view, should start and end with the owner and GM. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm not going to click on anybody and you know that the "problem" here today is the "solution" on his next team, you just know that. I'm not doing it again. 

It's the franchise and the ownership NOT the players. 

This post isn’t about the management that must go as I have said many times, but the players are not without fault.  All these guys came up through the ranks and have played on good teams and know how to play hockey.  They all know you have to go to the net to score.  They all know to clear the front of the net.  They all know fundamentally sound hockey.  

The question is which guys, despite the crap culture still play the right way.  The answer is not many.   These are the players that need to be identified and kept by new management.  My question is who this board thinks those players are.  

[EM88]

It seems like who is part of the problem should also be part of the solution.

If a player is underperforming his contract or expectations, that is the problem. The solution is for that player to start to play better.

For me I wish I could get 8 votes and put 4 of them on Cozens. It is not about him getting back to his 30 goal production of 2 seasons ago. Its not about worrying about trading him because what if he does better with someone else.

He's just a bad player now. He is a poor shooter. He drags down the Powerplay. He is the least discipline penalty killer. He is quite simply the worst decision making forward without the puck I have ever seen.  This team is better the less he plays, or with him not on the team with any useful piece coming in return.  Waiting and hoping isn't going to change most of those things. This is who he is.

[Ogelthorpe]

Dahlin and UPL are two of the most overrated Sabres ever. 

[Weave]

Every frickin one of them fits both categories.  Its a team building problem, and an organizational commitment to winning problem.  Each and every one of them would be successful on the right roster, and in the right organization.  But this organization and this roster is neither.

[GASabresIUFAN]

13 hours ago, Weave said:

Every frickin one of them fits both categories.  Its a team building problem, and an organizational commitment to winning problem.  Each and every one of them would be successful on the right roster, and in the right organization.  But this organization and this roster is neither.

While I see your point about the players, I disagree.  Some guys are simply a negative or just roster filler.  Where I do agree is that change in management is essential and that team building is the primary issue with the team under Adams.  I believe that had Adams acquired two stay at home D to partner with Byram and Dahlin the current Sabres would be a playoff team despite the inept PP, Cozens and the lack of playmakers.  

However, the purpose of this is asking if your were Adams replacement who on this team are you keeping and who are you replacing.  

[PerreaultForever]

14 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This post isn’t about the management that must go as I have said many times, but the players are not without fault.  All these guys came up through the ranks and have played on good teams and know how to play hockey.  They all know you have to go to the net to score.  They all know to clear the front of the net.  They all know fundamentally sound hockey.  

The question is which guys, despite the crap culture still play the right way.  The answer is not many.   These are the players that need to be identified and kept by new management.  My question is who this board thinks those players are.  

Because we don't develop them the right way. We don't make them earn it. Right from the get go we never do it right and they become soft and weak. Cozens wasn't called the workhorse because he slacked off in junior. Here he's found the standard doesn't demand it and so that's the end of that. 

[Second Line Center]

Beginning to develop a theory they were NOT happy with what happened to Meatball and couldn’t give 2 s***s about Ruff and this “accountability” talk from a GM that paid them immediately after 1 good year.  
 

They don’t respect the GM.  Worse, they no longer respect the organization.  

I also personally think this team hasn’t been the same since the Levi decision to sign out of college - which clearly came with promises of being on the roster.  

Accountability folks.  

We’re a joke.  
 

Need an alpha Hockey President.  Same GM.  And a coach that get out of these guys we’re stuck with for now until new GM figures it out.  
 

The longer we wait to do this the worse it is.  

[Pimlach]

35 minutes ago, Second Line Center said:

Beginning to develop a theory they were NOT happy with what happened to Meatball and couldn’t give 2 s***s about Ruff and this “accountability” talk from a GM that paid them immediately after 1 good year.  
 

They don’t respect the GM.  Worse, they no longer respect the organization.  

I also personally think this team hasn’t been the same since the Levi decision to sign out of college - which clearly came with promises of being on the roster.  

Accountability folks.  

We’re a joke.  
 

Need an alpha Hockey President.  Same GM.  And a coach that get out of these guys we’re stuck with for now until new GM figures it out.  
 

The longer we wait to do this the worse it is.  

Not the way I see it.  Go back and play the videos of the players interviews when Granato got fired.  They mostly repeated the same themes and messages that Adams put out there, which is to say they threw Granato under the bus.  

Now they are finding out accountability is hard, it’s more than the throw away words they were spouting. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

The sad part about accountability is that the players aren’t worried about being traded.  From their perspective they have guaranteed contracts and when traded they likely feel like they’ve been paroled from prison.  

 

[Weave]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

While I see your point about the players, I disagree.  Some guys are simply a negative or just roster filler.  Where I do agree is that change in management is essential and that team building is the primary issue with the team under Adams.  I believe that had Adams acquired two stay at home D to partner with Byram and Dahlin the current Sabres would be a playoff team despite the inept PP, Cozens and the lack of playmakers.  

However, the purpose of this is asking if your were Adams replacement who on this team are you keeping and who are you replacing.  

I suspect every player on the roster would be just fine on a good team, even our filler players.  They would be in appropriate roles, and would have appropriate support.

KA never built a support structure for his players and consequently the only players that seem to be doing well are the ones that are past needing support, like Zucker and Tuch.  And most of the rest of the roster is still being asked to play one role higher than they are prepared to play, and aren’t getting anywhere near the support they need to grow into it.

I stand by my comment, every player on this roster could be a keeper if the team building was NHL standard.

[LTS]

22 minutes ago, Weave said:

I suspect every player on the roster would be just fine on a good team, even our filler players.  They would be in appropriate roles, and would have appropriate support.

KA never built a support structure for his players and consequently the only players that seem to be doing well are the ones that are past needing support, like Zucker and Tuch.  And most of the rest of the roster is still being asked to play one role higher than they are prepared to play, and aren’t getting anywhere near the support they need to grow into it.

I stand by my comment, every player on this roster could be a keeper if the team building was NHL standard.

100% my thoughts. There is enough evidence to indicate this is true. It's seems rare a player does not leave this club and find a home on another NHL roster. Even Chad Ruhwedel has been getting serviceable time elsewhere.

Now, I've done done the statistical analysis, but given the lamentations of this board about former Sabres players, I'm going to go with it.

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 minutes ago, LTS said:

100% my thoughts. There is enough evidence to indicate this is true. It's seems rare a player does not leave this club and find a home on another NHL roster. Even Chad Ruhwedel has been getting serviceable time elsewhere.

Actually many of our failures are out of the NHL.  Guys like Stillman, Bjork, Asplund, Pysyk, Hutton, etc.., are gone from the NHL.  Guys like Jost soon will be done in the NHL as well.  

[Pimlach]

On 12/15/2024 at 7:52 AM, Ogelthorpe said:

Dahlin and UPL are two of the most overrated Sabres ever. 

How is UPL overrated? 

He worked his way onto the roster through Rochester, he is putting up good numbers while playing behind a porous defense and a bunch of quitters.  

I don’t think the rest of the league shares your opinion.  Just on the Sabres roster alone you could say that Devon Levi is far more overrated.  

Edited December 16 by Pimlach

[LTS]

9 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Actually many of our failures are out of the NHL.  Guys like Stillman, Bjork, Asplund, Pysyk, Hutton, etc.., are gone from the NHL.  Guys like Jost soon will be done in the NHL as well.  

I get what you are saying, but Stillman, Bjork were acquisitions from other teams and they were never routinely in an NHL lineup before being acquired. Asplund was a bust and never established in the NHL either.

Psysk and Jost have each accumulated 10 seasons playing fully or partially in the NHL.  That's a pretty good career I would say.

Hutton was established when the Sabres got him but he had eye issues that led to his fall off.  He was also at the end of his career when they acquired him so it wasn't like he would have a lot of time to go be successful.

I started going through the rosters to find former players still playing a role on other teams and the list got pretty long pretty quick. Now certainly most of those are bottom 6 / 3rd pair players who move often.. but... here we are.

 

[pi2000]

I voted everyone is part of the solution. 

Here's why.

No trade or set of trades will change anything.   We've seen it a million times.    They make a trade, it briefly sparks the team, then they end up in the same old rut but  also down a good promising player or two who eventually blossoms with their new team and we all lament what could have been.

That has to stop.

Making deals to move veterans who "no longer want to be here" also has to stop.

Management needs to send the message that this is it... this is the roster, this is your coaching staff.   

Figure it out or be the laughing stock of the league... that's on nobody but the players.   

The only finger pointing needs to be at themselves.  

Find a way to do better or accept the fact you'll get boo'd on home-ice on your way to another lost season.  

The young core needs this pressure to grow... knowing that nodody is going to bail them out, it's on them.. not the owner, not the GM, not the head coach.

[Weave]

2 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I voted everyone is part of the solution. 

Here's why.

No trade or set of trades will change anything.   We've seen it a million times.    They make a trade, it briefly sparks the team, then they end up in the same old rut but  also down a good promising player or two who eventually blossoms with their new team and we all lament what could have been.

That has to stop.

Making deals to move veterans who "no longer want to be here" also has to stop.

Management needs to send the message that this is it... this is the roster, this is your coaching staff.   

Figure it out or be the laughing stock of the league... that's on nobody but the players.   

The only finger pointing needs to be at themselves.  

Find a way to do better or accept the fact you'll get boo'd on home-ice on your way to another lost season.  

The young core needs this pressure to grow... knowing that nodody is going to bail them out, it's on them.. not the owner, not the GM, not the head coach.

Whatever, Terry boomer.

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I voted everyone is part of the solution. 

Here's why.

No trade or set of trades will change anything.   We've seen it a million times.    They make a trade, it briefly sparks the team, then they end up in the same old rut but  also down a good promising player or two who eventually blossoms with their new team and we all lament what could have been.

That has to stop.

Making deals to move veterans who "no longer want to be here" also has to stop.

Management needs to send the message that this is it... this is the roster, this is your coaching staff.   

Figure it out or be the laughing stock of the league... that's on nobody but the players.   

The only finger pointing needs to be at themselves.  

Find a way to do better or accept the fact you'll get boo'd on home-ice on your way to another lost season.  

The young core needs this pressure to grow... knowing that nodody is going to bail them out, it's on them.. not the owner, not the GM, not the head coach.

The problem with this is that there are obvious roster flaws that  must be addressed for this roster to compete.  We must get proper partners for Dahlin and Byram, players who are good defensively who will allow Dahlin and Byram to use their O skills to greatest advantage.  Think Tallinder and Lydman.  NJ made similar moves  when they acquired Ryan Graves and then John Marino the follow year. 

This team also needs playmakers.  We have a ton of guys who can score, such as TnT, Quinn, JJP, even Cozens, but only one player, Tuch, who is a capable playmaker.  Benson will get there in time, but isn't there yet. 

All I'm really asking for is for 3 moves; 2 stay at home D and one playmaker to repair this roster.  

Edited December 16 by GASabresIUFAN

[pi2000]

27 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The problem with this is that there are obvious roster flaws that  must be addressed for this roster to compete.  We must get proper partners for Dahlin and Byram, players who are good defensively who will allow Dahlin and Byram to use their O skills to greatest advantage.  Think Tallinder and Lydman.  NJ made similar moves  when they acquired Ryan Graves and then John Marino the follow year. 

This team also needs playmakers.  We have a ton of guys who can score, such as TnT, Quinn, JJP, even Cozens, but only one player, Tuch, who is a capable playmaker.  Benson will get there in time, but isn't there yet. 

All I'm really asking for is for 3 moves; 2 stay at home D and one playmaker to repair this roster.  

This roster is constructed well enough to compete for a playoff spot.   

The excuse making needs to stop.

Do better.