GDT: Buffalo Sabres @ Washington Capitals 12/14/24 --MSG, WGR--7 PM Puck Drop

[inkman]

Wait.  They play at the same time as the Bills tomorrow? How does this league exist?  

[SwampD]

3 minutes ago, inkman said:

Wait.  They play at the same time as the Bills tomorrow? How does this league exist?  

By scheduling Sabres games when nobody would notice.

😂

[Pimlach]

Good (but late) evening Teammates.  I took the wife out and missed the game.  

Just read the GDT.   We were in it for awhile.   They continue to pass up shots and/or miss the net.  Specials team was the difference.  Benson and UPL played good.  Cozens fought, sounds like he didn’t fair well again.  

Leaves tomorrow on a B2B. They will drop 10 in a row for sure. 
 

NO WAY will that game interfere with me watching the Bills game tomorrow.  I’m ignoring the Sabres for two games in a row!!!  

 

[SABRES 0311]

 

Not sure how much more Sabres fans can take.

[Wyldnwoody44]

That podcast with the guys talking about what needs to be done, accountability and going to the AHL and saying the doors open, that needs to happen. They alluded to a "country club" style and basically called out the sabres, Sens and Detroit but the emphasis on Buffalo. The bring it 110% every night or else we will make sure you don't wear an NHL jersey.... That is lacking, idk if it's coddling, or what is at play in the clubhouse, but this team had zero natural drive, zero killer instinct.

Who admits That they get scared of a team coming hard when up 4.... I mean, these aren't men at all. Heads need to roll; bottom line; this is the only way at this time to make changes.... But our Owner is too Chicken $hit to even speak in public, his GM may actually be on some sort of Spectrum (and not the cool kind that let's you play piano well, or pick out nhl talent) and our retread coach has been saddled with Matt Freaking Ellis and probbaly the worst PP I've ever seen in the NHL. 

So yeah, we'll just sit here and give cocky press conferences like we're doing media and fans a favor, while bumbling every single step of the way and giving that stupid chipmunk grin. 

Hey Buffalo, thanks for supporting us... Now kindly Sod off. Yours truly TP and KA

[JohninMinn.]

[Sidc3000]

7 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

No chance. Not even worth having a discussion about. I’m just hoping KA gets canned. It’s the only hope at this point. 

At the point Who will take the spot. 

[JP51]

8 hours ago, SwampD said:

By scheduling Sabres games when nobody would notice.

😂

💯 lol

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

You jest. We aren't making the playoffs. Hell, we'll be lucky to pick outside of the top 4.

Is it the players? Coaching? Management?

At this time, it's a combination of players and GM. I don't blame Lindy for this, he's not the issue. The age of the players, the environment they've been seeded in, losing is acceptable, and the choice of draft picks combined with UFA and trade availability. These are issues that continuously lead to disaster. The GM is ultimately responsible.

Yes, yes, yes. 

Well you can give Lindy a pass since the staff he inherited has been around for a few years, all guys that Kevyn likes.  But I wouldn’t.   

Play with roster below the cap for how many years now?  Three or four.  

No blockers.    Height of arrogance.  Give jobs to kids that are still AHL players.   Of all the wrong things Adams did, this is the worst of them.  
 

 

[CallawaySabres]

Really need Chicago and and Nashville to step it up. Montreal will be passing us this week. 
 

bad year to be worst in the league. If Buffalo does end up picking first, do you trade it for a proven #2 center?

[Huckleberry]

4 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

Really need Chicago and and Nashville to step it up. Montreal will be passing us this week. 
 

bad year to be worst in the league. If Buffalo does end up picking first, do you trade it for a proven #2 center?

Adams will take another D player and you will love it 😛

[LTS]

 

 

[Archie Lee]

9 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Yes, yes, yes. 

Well you can give Lindy a pass since the staff he inherited has been around for a few years, all guys that Kevyn likes.  But I wouldn’t.   

Play with roster below the cap for how many years now?  Three or four.  

No blockers.    Height of arrogance.  Give jobs to kids that are still AHL players.   Of all the wrong things Adams did, this is the worst of them.  
 

 

The initial idea (back to 21-22) of not blocking young players, held logic I think. In the early stages of a rebuild, there is no need to sign veteran UFAs to longterm deals that might both block younger players and make managing the cap in future years more difficult. The logic falls apart though, when you get to year 4 and you still are not a playoff team and you have so many prospects that they are effectively blocking each other. Isak Rosen is having the kind of year in the AHL that would put him on the radar for a role on any NHL team either as a call-up this year or as a player you would give a serious opportunity to next season. The idea of Rosen being added to our roster is preposterous. He would just make us younger and more timid and inexperienced. And with Quinn, Peterka, Benson and Kulich  already on the team, there is no logical position. At this point, I can only assume that Adams is more crippled by fear of making a mistake and trading the wrong kids or for an unbalanced return, than he is driven by a commitment to winning. 

[DarthEbriate]

15 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

At this point, I can only assume that Adams is more crippled by fear of making a mistake and trading the wrong kids or for an unbalanced return, than he is driven by a commitment to winning. 

Fear leads to the Cap Side. See, there's two sides to every Schwarz Concept: the Cup side and the Cap side.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

The initial idea (back to 21-22) of not blocking young players, held logic I think. In the early stages of a rebuild, there is no need to sign veteran UFAs to longterm deals that might both block younger players and make managing the cap in future years more difficult. The logic falls apart though, when you get to year 4 and you still are not a playoff team and you have so many prospects that they are effectively blocking each other. Isak Rosen is having the kind of year in the AHL that would put him on the radar for a role on any NHL team either as a call-up this year or as a player you would give a serious opportunity to next season. The idea of Rosen being added to our roster is preposterous. He would just make us younger and more timid and inexperienced. And with Quinn, Peterka, Benson and Kulich  already on the team, there is no logical position. At this point, I can only assume that Adams is more crippled by fear of making a mistake and trading the wrong kids or for an unbalanced return, than he is driven by a commitment to winning. 

Sorry Archie, the “no blockers” logic was always flawed.  He didn’t have to tie up cap space to bring in experienced players and a more competitive roster.  No blockers might have been fun for 3 months, but when things got serious it just perpetuated more losing, more acceptance of poor play, more excuses, more bad habits, and more softness that permeates the culture.  

It cost us a playoff birth two years ago - couldn’t sign a vet goalie and block Levi.  Last year we had 18 year old Benson on the team, was he that much of an impact player coming out Juniors?   Heck no.  He still  isn’t, and probably won’t be in his 3rd year either   

Winning teams always field the best roster they can.   

Edited December 15 by Pimlach

[Mr Peabody]

Missed the 1st but saw the second two periods in a bar.  Thought they played solid but no one wanted to put shots on the goalie at the end.  Looked like no confidence and trying for the perfect (non risky?) rather than ugly goal. 

[Archie Lee]

54 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Sorry Archie, the “no blockers” logic was always flawed.  He didn’t have to tie up cap space bring in experienced players and a more competitive roster.  No blockers might have been fun for 3 minutes nths, but when things got serious it just perpetuated more losing, more acceptance of poor play, more excuses, more bad habits, and more softness that permeates the culture.  

It cost us a playoff birth two years ago - couldn’t sign a vet goalie and block Levi.  Last year we had 18 year old Benson on the team, was he that much of an impact player coming out Juniors?   Heck no.  He still  isn’t, and probably won’t be in his 3rd year either   

Winning teams always field the best roster they can.   

Fair enough. I pretty much agree, except for on the edges a bit. It isn’t so much that I think Adams’s plan was the only option. Rather, I think the outcomes of years 1 and 2 (ending with the 1 point playoff miss) were defendable and that there have been multiple points since then for a course adjustment. The inflection point for me was the off-season prior to 23-24 and the failure to make any meaningful off-season moves. Getting to within 1 point of the playoffs should have had the organization salivating to take the next step and leaving no potential area for improvement unexplored. Instead Adams had THE most complacent off-season imaginable and any cultural improvements that had been made through 22-23 were squandered. That he continues to double and triple down on this now clearly failed philosophy is mind-bending.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

Really need Chicago and and Nashville to step it up. Montreal will be passing us this week. 
 

bad year to be worst in the league. If Buffalo does end up picking first, do you trade it for a proven #2 center?

This draft is good at the top. I'm unclear what you're hinting at here. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

Really need Chicago and and Nashville to step it up. Montreal will be passing us this week. 
 

bad year to be worst in the league. If Buffalo does end up picking first, do you trade it for a proven #2 center?

Picking first?  Hope not.  

Trading your pick depends on who is there to draft and what else we can get with the pick.  There will be a few big wingers that can score goals, but I’m not a draftnik and don’t know enough about the top prospects - kind of sad to be talking about this on December 15.  

If they want to win now (this year) then they have to improve the center spline. We don’t need more center prospects, we need better NHL players at center, some veteran help at top 6 wing, and defensive defenseman to mate with the “puck movers”. 

I worry about another rebuild.  I don’t think Adams is the right guy.  He did a few good things, but the reality for all to see is the performance on the ice is declining for two straight seasons.  

[Stoner]

There is no way in god damned Hell that Adams gets to manage having another number one pick.

[JohnC]

46 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Sorry Archie, the “no blockers” logic was always flawed.  He didn’t have to tie up cap space bring in experienced players and a more competitive roster.  No blockers might have been fun for 3 minutes nths, but when things got serious it just perpetuated more losing, more acceptance of poor play, more excuses, more bad habits, and more softness that permeates the culture.  

It cost us a playoff birth two years ago - couldn’t sign a vet goalie and block Levi.  Last year we had 18 year old Benson on the team, was he that much of an impact player coming out Juniors?   Heck no.  He still  isn’t, and probably won’t be in his 3rd year either   

Winning teams always field the best roster they can.   

I brought this up before so I apologize for the repetition. Over the last couple to few years, Washington has reshaped its roster to the point where they are a now a serious team again. None of the players added such as Strome, Eller, Luc Dubois, Mangiopane, Logan Thomas etc. were considered top tier players. Dubois and to a lesser extent Strome were considered underachievers. Chyyrun was somewhat of a risk acquisition because he was entering his free agent year. My point is that the roster has steadily been reshaped to the point where they are now highly competitive. 

My big fear is that the contamination of constant losing will infect young players such as Quinn, JJP, Cozens, Power and even Benson where a change of scenery will be needed for them to revive their game. It's a corrosive environment for young players. 

What happens when Byram gets tired of this losing atmosphere and elects to become a UFA in order to get out of this stifling place he currently plays at? What will we then have to show for the Mitts trade if that scenario comes to pass?  

One of the biggest attributes a GM must have is the ability to assess his roster in a cold-blooded and analytical fashion. Our ill-equipped GM is in over his head. What makes this situation so exasperating is that even in this losing spiral period, the difference between winning and losing has been miniscule. I blame the clueless owner for the unqualified GM selection and this needless situation. It didn't need to play out this way. 

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, Stoner said:

There is no way in god damned Hell that Adams gets to manage having another number one pick.

I’m with you but what does Terry say?  

[JohnC]

12 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Fair enough. I pretty much agree, except for on the edges a bit. It isn’t so much that I think Adams’s plan was the only option. Rather, I think the outcomes of years 1 and 2 (ending with the 1 point playoff miss) were defendable and that there have been multiple points since then for a course adjustment. The inflection point for me was the off-season prior to 23-24 and the failure to make any meaningful off-season moves. Getting to within 1 point of the playoffs should have had the organization salivating to take the next step and leaving no potential area for improvement unexplored. Instead Adams had THE most complacent off-season imaginable and any cultural improvements that had been made through 22-23 were squandered. That he continues to double and triple down on this now clearly failed philosophy is mind-bending.

That inability to make the course adjustment is because he didn't have the wherewithal to do the job to begin with. Every GM who takes over a franchise in any pro sport has a plan to move forward. But that doesn't mean you have to be stuck to your preconceived notions when the terrain inevitably changes. Dealing with constant change is part of job. This GM was in over his head when he took the job and has been in over his head while he has had the job. 

4 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I’m with you but what does Terry say?  

Terry doesn't talk. He says nothing. 

[Believer]

20 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

That he continues to double and triple down on this now clearly failed philosophy is mind-bending.

Ignorant not to adjust.

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I brought this up before so I apologize for the repetition. Over the last couple to few years, Washington has reshaped its roster to the point where they are a now a serious team again. None of the players added such as Strome, Eller, Luc Dubois, Mangiopane, Logan Thomas etc. were considered top tier players. Dubois and to a lesser extent Strome were considered underachievers. Chyyrun was somewhat of a risk acquisition because he was entering his free agent year. My point is that the roster has steadily been reshaped to the point where they are now highly competitive. 

My big fear is that the contamination of constant losing will infect young players such as Quinn, JJP, Cozens, Power and even Benson where a change of scenery will be needed for them to revive their game. It's a corrosive environment for young players. 

What happens when Byram gets tired of this losing atmosphere and elects to become a UFA in order to get out of this stifling place he currently plays at? What will we then have to show for the Mitts trade if that scenario comes to pass?  

One of the biggest attributes a GM must have is the ability to assess his roster in a cold-blooded and analytical fashion. Our ill-equipped GM is in over his head. What makes this situation so exasperating is that even in this losing spiral period, the difference between winning and losing has been miniscule. I blame the clueless owner for the unqualified GM selection and this needless situation. It didn't need to play out this way. 

Sure.  As I pointed out to you, Washington has a POHO that was their Cup winning GM, and he has been there for over 10 years. 

He just brought in a bevy of NHL players to improve the roster.  I’ll bet none of those guys have cap killing contracts either.   He didn’t worry about blocking prospects. When your prospects earn the job they get the job.   It will be interesting to see how long this team stays at a high level.  

He also chose to keep Ovechkin, Wilson, and Carlson from the Cup winning team to help maintain a winning standard.  The opposite of tanking.  

Some fans here talked about the Bruins, Lighting, and Caps falling below us.  It’s not happening though.