Scorched Earth

[Flashsabre]

Unfortunately this is the only way forward I see for this organization.

There is no trade to make that will fix this. The organization’s reputation around the league is just too damaged. No player worth anything will want to come at this point.

The best solution is Terry selling the team and a new ownership group come in for a fresh start. Clean out everyone and start fresh with the RIGHT people. Seasoned NHL people that are respected around the league.

The stain of Pegula as owner is too great at this point. 0 for 14 for the playoffs, multiple questionable hires, the LaFontaine fiasco, the handling of Eichel, bloodletting the organization during COVID, the “maintaining our lifestyle” message, hiring a guy with no front office experience in Adams. 
 

BUT if Pegula stays as owner the only option is him deciding to bring in qualified vet NHL people to run the franchise and clean out everyone. Bring in people to that front office that are well respected and spin it as their team now with Pegula slinking into the shadows.

This franchise is now at the “worst possible outcome” stage for players considering a move here.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

I do not think i have ever seen a bigger tire fire then the Sabres Organization. Whats worse is that the problem has been the same for the last 15 years. Non tenacious passive team. ALWAYS!!! Have forecheck kills this team and turns them into AHL players that do stupid things! They are the biggest group of mental failures i have ever seen put together. I am so glad i can finally just watch and shut it off and walk away now without getting pissed off or upset. Now i understand how ROR feels. The Sabres sucked my love of hockey away. FU TP and KA. Thanks for nothing.  

[zow2]

Unfortunately, the guys they've drafted and developed just aren't that good.  The organization overestimated how good they would be by now.  There's a few obviously like UPL that have gotten better but some others, nope.   Also, as we all know Buffalo would be on everyone's no trade clause list so it's not an easy fix.  

At this point, in the short term I might work in some of the hungry Rochester guys.  Maybe they won't be panic stricken in 3rd periods like the current group.  For the long term after the season, that's going to be a major project.  Maybe they can do some trades by then.

[bob_sauve28]

Nah, just fix the power play. A team with the 30th ranked PP of course is going to lose lots of one goal games 

[Hawerchuk]

I long for the defensive days of McKee, Warrener and Hank Talinder. Until BUF gets a real defense out there that will dish out punishment, then this soft ass team will remain stuck in neutral. Bryson, Johnson, Byram etc can skate like the wind but can't or won't take the body or clear the front of the net. Its mind boggling. FIX THE GDAM DEFENSE!

[WhenWillItEnd66]

7 minutes ago, Hawerchuk said:

I long for the defensive days of McKee, Warrener and Hank Talinder. Until BUF gets a real defense out there that will dish out punishment, then this soft ass team will remain stuck in neutral. Bryson, Johnson, Byram etc can skate like the wind but can't or won't take the body or clear the front of the net. Its mind boggling. FIX THE GDAM DEFENSE!

Preach brother.... PREACH!!!

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Unfortunately this is the only way forward I see for this organization.

There is no trade to make that will fix this. The organization’s reputation around the league is just too damaged. No player worth anything will want to come at this point.

The best solution is Terry selling the team and a new ownership group come in for a fresh start. Clean out everyone and start fresh with the RIGHT people. Seasoned NHL people that are respected around the league.

The stain of Pegula as owner is too great at this point. 0 for 14 for the playoffs, multiple questionable hires, the LaFontaine fiasco, the handling of Eichel, bloodletting the organization during COVID, the “maintaining our lifestyle” message, hiring a guy with no front office experience in Adams. 
 

BUT if Pegula stays as owner the only option is him deciding to bring in qualified vet NHL people to run the franchise and clean out everyone. Bring in people to that front office that are well respected and spin it as their team now with Pegula slinking into the shadows.

This franchise is now at the “worst possible outcome” stage for players considering a move here.

Terry does not need to sell.  He needs to do what he said on DAY ONE.   Which is to provide RESOURCES. 

If he can just hire an experienced POHO and get out of his way, really get out of the way, and that means his family too, things would eventually improve.  

 

[SwampD]

13 minutes ago, Hawerchuk said:

I long for the defensive days of McKee, Warrener and Hank Talinder. Until BUF gets a real defense out there that will dish out punishment, then this soft ass team will remain stuck in neutral. Bryson, Johnson, Byram etc can skate like the wind but can't or won't take the body or clear the front of the net. Its mind boggling. FIX THE GDAM DEFENSE!

Forget the body, they don’t even tie up sticks. 

[JP51]

17 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Terry does not need to sell.  He needs to do what he said on DAY ONE.   Which is to provide RESOURCES. 

If he can just hire an experienced POHO and get out of his way, really get out of the way, and that means his family too, things would eventually improve.  

 

This I agree with... I think people want him to sell because they dont believe he will do this (what you said)... as well as they dont believe he wont interfere... but the bottom line is he is an owner with extensive resources... if that is his role in the organization and he eradicates the FO and brings in competent people including an extremely credible POHO that would begin the process of restoration of reputation and a GM that is highly competent then that works for me... but as long as he recycles the incestuous failing FO and internally precipitates the stench that is this organization to right the ship... the failure will continue and get much worse... 

[RangerDave]

27 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

If he can just hire an experienced POHO

Do you have anyone in mind that is available, could do a good job - and would take the job offer?

[pi2000]

My 3 step process to bring this franchise back from the dead.

1. Hire an experienced hockey mind as POHO.  Let him evaluate the executive team (GM, exec assistants, etc..) and make a call on Kevyn and his staff members.    Hire a new GM, or give Kevyn and his staff the resources/authority he needs to do his job and provide him with some strategic direction.
2. Trade some undersized prospects for grit and experience, specifically a stay-at-home veteran defenseman to pair with Power.   Power 's development is crucial to this team's success.   He's still young for a defenseman, but he needs a mentor, somebody to learn from who he can trust and will cover up his mistakes.   
3. Coaching staff.   The power play is historically bad.   Move on from Appert immediately.   Start the search for a new head coach and put Lindy on notice.    Unfair?   Too bad, 8 consecutive losses?   He likes to talk about accountability, we'll he needs to be held accountable himself.... tough titty.   Give him until Christmas to right the ship, or ring in the new year with a new HC rather than letting another season go to waste like they've done for the past 13 years. 

[SwampD]

I think they just need one A-hole, like a Drury, or a Toews. Someone they don't really like but love to have on the team. A guy that makes everyone else work just a little harder. I don't think they have that type of player on the team.

[Flashsabre]

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/the-talking-point-why-do-the-sabres-keep-losing~3045976

 

 

Edited December 12 by Flashsabre

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, pi2000 said:

My 3 step process to bring this franchise back from the dead.

1. Hire an experienced hockey mind as POHO.  Let him evaluate the executive team (GM, exec assistants, etc..) and make a call on Kevyn and his staff members.    Hire a new GM, or give Kevyn and his staff the resources/authority he needs to do his job and provide him with some strategic direction.
2. Trade some undersized prospects for grit and experience, specifically a stay-at-home veteran defenseman to pair with Power.   Power 's development is crucial to this team's success.   He's still young for a defenseman, but he needs a mentor, somebody to learn from who he can trust and will cover up his mistakes.   
3. Coaching staff.   The power play is historically bad.   Move on from Appert immediately.   Start the search for a new head coach and put Lindy on notice.    Unfair?   Too bad, 8 consecutive losses?   He likes to talk about accountability, we'll he needs to be held accountable himself.... tough titty.   Give him until Christmas to right the ship, or ring in the new year with a new HC rather than letting another season go to waste like they've done for the past 13 years. 

Agree with all of it accept the timeline.  It is too fast, and not realistic for the amount of work needed.  He can help direct player moves/acquisitions immediately, no problem trying to improve the on ice product immediately. 

However, once you hire the said experience hockey mind as POHO, he needs time to evaluate everything.   

He will need time to fairly evaluate Adams, his entire staff (and there are some good names there), and even the coaches.  He may know who he wants to replace fairly quickly, but getting the best possible replacement will be tricky.   The off season will bring lots more names and options to consider.   No need to be hasty hiring new FO and coaches, look for the best you get instead.  

[JP51]

18 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/the-talking-point-why-do-the-sabres-keep-losing~3045976

 

 

Excellent take... I have a bit more pointed opinion towards the Front office and their ineptitude...  bottom line Credibility needs to be rebuilt to attract players, Terry can start with not taking on Soccer Execs and Marketing Majors to run the team... starting with a POHO and a GM who has won, drafting needs to include players who play hockey, not figure skaters that can score, or another Dman that can rush the puck, there needs to be balance in the mix of players, and yes trades... after you get the current FO out and a competent FO with a vision has a chance to assess... No trading when you are in a prone position of absolute weakness by a GM whose vision is not a competent one, who doesnt believe in our region (despite the fact he is from here) and just had a hissy fit because he is feeling the pressure... No good can come of that.... this year to me is another waste... get a new regime in here... let them use the last half of the season to try to improve and assess.... then make competent moves that align with a competent vision  when you are not so desperate with a GM trying to save his job. 

[Pimlach]

22 hours ago, RangerDave said:

Do you have anyone in mind that is available, could do a good job - and would take the job offer?

Typically you would look at current successful GMs who's contracts are up and that want a promotion - Buffalo will be a very hard sell in this group.  Or former GMs/Execs that were successful and are still relevant.  Someone posted a list of former GMs that are unemployed. 

[Archie Lee]

If the current players were not the roster of the Buffalo Sabres, with all the associated baggage of bad ownership, toxic culture, mismanagement, and 14 years out of the playoffs, I think it would be an attractive opportunity for both experienced GMs and the hottest-up-and-comers.  If you just take the 13 current roster players who are under contract for next season (Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Lafferty, Krebs, Malenstyn, Benson, Kulich, Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Clifton, Luukkonen) and add Skinner's buy-out cost, you come in just under $62 million.  That leaves what should be $30 million in cap space and a plethora of assets (from valuable UFA's that can be moved at this year's deadline, to RFA's that can be re-signed or traded, to a still well-stocked prospect pool, and a full slate of draft picks plus extra picks) that can be used as assets to fill in the roster holes .  That doesn't mean that we should be fully committed to the 13 players under contract; 1 or 2 of them could be potential trade-bait also. I don't think it is a lost cause beyond this season.  The pieces are there for a capable and qualified person to utilize.   

[Thorner]

27 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

If the current players were not the roster of the Buffalo Sabres, with all the associated baggage of bad ownership, toxic culture, mismanagement, and 14 years out of the playoffs, I think it would be an attractive opportunity for both experienced GMs and the hottest-up-and-comers.  If you just take the 13 current roster players who are under contract for next season (Thompson, Cozens, Tuch, Lafferty, Krebs, Malenstyn, Benson, Kulich, Dahlin, Power, Samuelsson, Clifton, Luukkonen) and add Skinner's buy-out cost, you come in just under $62 million.  That leaves what should be $30 million in cap space and a plethora of assets (from valuable UFA's that can be moved at this year's deadline, to RFA's that can be re-signed or traded, to a still well-stocked prospect pool, and a full slate of draft picks plus extra picks) that can be used as assets to fill in the roster holes .  That doesn't mean that we should be fully committed to the 13 players under contract; 1 or 2 of them could be potential trade-bait also. I don't think it is a lost cause beyond this season.  The pieces are there for a capable and qualified person to utilize.   

You neee an alpha personality to step in. Someone who has the ego to not only think they can fix it but *know* they can given past experience. Someone who doesn’t have that fear of failure and can see the fact they are merely a playoff appearance in short order away from star, if not legend status in Buffalo (and a bunch of cred league wide considering what everyone else thinks of us).

Someone can easily be the “guy who got the SABRES into the playoffs”. It’s right there. 

no idea if we will ever hire a person like this. I think that’s the bigger obstacle than someone being willing to try. To your point I think it’s an attractive position both in assets roster wise and the attainableness of the initial (crucial) goal 

The guy we have at GM is more concerned with, or in full agreement with, a strategy that talks about success in the future and long-term success before ever attaining anything in the now. 

[Archie Lee]

7 minutes ago, Thorner said:

You neee an alpha personality to step in. Someone who has the ego to not only think they can fix it but *know* they can given past experience. Someone who doesn’t have that fear of failure and can see the fact they are merely a playoff appearance in short order away from star, if not legend status in Buffalo (and a bunch of cred league wide considering what everyone else thinks of us).

Someone can easily be the “guy who got the SABRES into the playoffs”. It’s right there. 

no idea if we will ever hire a person like this. I think that’s the bigger obstacle than someone being willing to try. To your point I think it’s an attractive position both in assets roster wise and the attainableness of the initial (crucial) goal 

The guy we have at GM is more concerned with, or in full agreement with, a strategy that talks about success in the future and long-term success before ever attaining anything in the now. 

Agreed. Up until the end of the 22-23 season I had bought into what Adams was selling. The first crack in the facade for me was the press conference that ended that season when Adams bristled with hostility when asked if the team missing the playoffs by 1 point was a missed opportunity. When no substantive moves were made that off-season and it became clear that they really were going to keep Benson on the roster, my confidence was significantly shaken. Now, he has left no doubt that he is just not up to the task. 

[JohnC]

21 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Agree with all of it accept the timeline.  It is too fast, and not realistic for the amount of work needed.  He can help direct player moves/acquisitions immediately, no problem trying to improve the on ice product immediately. 

However, once you hire the said experience hockey mind as POHO, he needs time to evaluate everything.   

He will need time to fairly evaluate Adams, his entire staff (and there are some good names there), and even the coaches.  He may know who he wants to replace fairly quickly, but getting the best possible replacement will be tricky.   The off season will bring lots more names and options to consider.   No need to be hasty hiring new FO and coaches, look for the best you get instead.  

Compare the Washington Capitals with the Sabres? Last year, we were talent-wise basically comparable teams. And I would say that most hockey people judged that the Sabres had more upside young players on their roster. Over the past few years, Washington made a number of small transactions to better balance out their roster. They phased out the right players and correspondingly phased in the right players. Last year, the Capitals squeaked into the last spot in the playoffs. Their record this year is 20-6-2. There were no bonanza deals that were eye-popping that dramatically changed the roster. It was a series of smart moves over the past few seasons that allowed this franchise to get back into the serious playoff fray. Compare that to how the Sabres' organization has been run over the past five years or so? 

I strenuously disagree that a highly qualified new GM needs a lot of time to evaluate everything here. Experienced GMs know the league and players on all the teams very well. And they also know the hockey staff for most teams  If you have listened to the many critiques of the Sabres from outsiders, it comes down to the same criticism of roster construction and other organizational issues. 

Over this recent hideous losing streak, almost all the games have been lost by one goal. The takeaway is that the difference between success and failure is miniscule. I wholeheartedly believe that with the right person at the helm, this sinking ship can get back to the surface and float again. This situation is inexcusable!

[PerreaultForever]

I saw an interview with Michkov the other day. He speaks through a translator. He was asked about his feistiness and I found his answer interesting. (not an exact quote) He says "that's hockey. I know that every player on this team has my back and will support me and I will defend every one of them. That's what a team is."

Now, I know they say they have a good locker room and they are all friends supposedly but when was the last time a Sabre said anything like that? It may have happened, but I honestly don't remember it, it would be a long time ago. 

Anyway, they don't know how to build a solid hockey culture here, and with Pegula as owner they probably never will. 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Compare the Washington Capitals with the Sabres? Last year, we were talent-wise basically comparable teams. And I would say that most hockey people judged that the Sabres had more upside young players on their roster. Over the past few years, Washington made a number of small transactions to better balance out their roster. They phased out the right players and correspondingly phased in the right players. Last year, the Capitals squeaked into the last spot in the playoffs. Their record this year is 20-6-2. There were no bonanza deals that were eye-popping that dramatically changed the roster. It was a series of smart moves over the past few seasons that allowed this franchise to get back into the serious playoff fray. Compare that to how the Sabres' organization has been run over the past five years or so? 

I strenuously disagree that a highly qualified new GM needs a lot of time to evaluate everything here. Experienced GMs know the league and players on all the teams very well. And they also know the hockey staff for most teams  If you have listened to the many critiques of the Sabres from outsiders, it comes down to the same criticism of roster construction and other organizational issues. 

Over this recent hideous losing streak, almost all the games have been lost by one goal. The takeaway is that the difference between success and failure is miniscule. I wholeheartedly believe that with the right person at the helm, this sinking ship can get back to the surface and float again. This situation is inexcusable!

First, I was responding only to the timeline that another poster laid out.  Go back and read his post and my comments.  Even he agreed with my response.    The post said Hire a POHO and have him revaluate everything by Xmas or the end of the year,  Sorry, that scenario cant and won't happen.  Speed is not important, getting it right is important.  

Next, what POHO/GM are you going to get in here by the end of this year?  Probably one that is already in the organization, that's who.   Or maybe one that has never been a GM in the NHL and is willing to try (similar to the last 3 GMs that TP hired).   Do you think Pegula is secretly interviewing POHOs/GMs?  He isn't. 

Finally, which top notch head coach (and coaches) is this new GM going hire?   How will that new coach fix things so quickly when the young players we have are struggling with Lindy's system that they have been learning and playing in for ~6 months? 

You want to talk about Washington?   The Caps have Brian McClennan as their POHO, prior to that he was their GM for the past 10 years.  He has been working on their roster every day for over a decade, and working on their recent rebuild (which is really more of a re-tool) for a lot longer than you think.  He is entrenched in that teams fabric.   He has a won a Cup with the Caps and he has a plan to retool the team with Ovechkin present, to leverage his leadership.   He did not cook this up quickly overnight.  

The Sabres are not the Caps.  The situation in Washington is not the situation in Buffalo.  Washington has stability, a solid organizational culture, and respect around the league.  Buffalo has none of the above.    Your comparison is apples to oranges.  

There is one realistic change that can be made quickly that maybe could help things right now.   You can remove GM Adams and replace him with with AGM Jason Karmanos. 

I seriously doubt Karmanos will want to go scortched earth and fire Ruff and Appert right off the bat (as suggested by the other poster), but maybe Karmanos can make a few player moves that help improve the team in time to make a serious playoff run?   He knows the young players, he runs the Amerks, he has previously been part of two Cup winning teams with Pittsburgh.  By my logic Karmanos has always been more qualified than his boss, Kevyn Adams.   Sooner or later he will leave this mess of an organization.  I agree that the Sabres have some good talent and some good pieces but its not enough, and some of us knew that going into the season.    

Another knock on Pegula is the lack of patience and all the turnover in Buffalo.   There is no need to be reactionary, it wont help. 

Edited December 13 by Pimlach

[Flashsabre]

I’m doubling down on scorched earth.

NHL step in and remove Terry as owner. He has killed a franchise and a fanbase.

”Hello darkness my old friend”

There is no hope with this organization as is. 
 

Everything goes through Terry and he is 0 for 14 and has proven he has no clue how to hire the proper people to run a competent organization. And it is obvious there are financial constraints on the organization.

[HumanSlinky39]

The biggest problem with Adams is he has a very specific type of player he likes and he has stocked the roster and pipeline full of them. So when the coach rolls out lines and pairings it's hard to differentiate one player from the next. It's a bunch of clones for the most part. This is a soft, soft team. They play soft, weak hockey and the rest of the NHL treats them like a community ***** doll. There's no passion, almost no grit, and zero leadership. Blow a 4-0 lead? Nobody's pissed off, there's nobody getting in guys' faces...they just stare blankly into the void. These guys are a bunch of beer league buddies that have been playing together for a few years, so they don't police each other when they ***** up. Sadly, the roster needs a hard reset. Identify a handful of guys to restart around and start making some moves*.

 

* I know this ain't happening. I guess this is just my shot at fan faction.

Edited December 16 by HumanSlinky39

[SABRES 0311]