1st Round Picks Since the Tank: Futile Drafting Got Us Here

[JP51]

41 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

JJP is a second round pick, no?

Indeed he is... but I suspect you already knew that LOL....  

[JP51]

3 minutes ago, klos1963 said:

Regier is arguably the best GM we've had. Punch is certainly in the discussion,  but different era.

Never understood the hate for him.  So much success,  yet he gets the blame for Golisano not spending to retain his stars.

This is not an unfair assessment... not gonna lie... but I did not like him... and also dont forget Rigas was even worse than Golisano...  I think I hated him because he didnt find a way to retain Briere and Drury and then matched the Vanek offer instead of taking the 4 1st round picks from Edmonton which would have been a gold mine. 

[PerreaultForever]

It's not just drafting (although the type of player drafted generally has been similar and hasn't been overly successful) it's about not having a veteran/rookie balance. Leaders to teach the talented kids and a Rochester development model that teaches them how to be complete NHL players. 

The other side of this is having this giant war chest of offensive prospects with only one NHL roster for them to play on. We have been sold on the idea that this is a wealth of trade capital but it's only been exercised once (Savoie - McLeod) and the trade capital means nothing if you don't spend some of it when you need it. Having a big pipeline doesn't help the NHL roster. 

For the draft, to really evaluate it you'd have to go deeper and look at each draft and see who they passed on for what they took. For example Cozens. Who is substantially better drafted later? Broberg? Caufield? Newhook? Certainly not Zegras.  Krebs? Maybe Boldy. I don't see a glaring error there in terms of what was available.

There are glaring errors (like Nylander) but some drafts don't deliver the wealth they advertise going in to them. many many busts or mediocre talents. This is part of the folly of just draft draft draft. Some years are supposed to be great and then end up being much less than that. Look at 2022. We had 3 firsts. Kulich, the lowest of the three might be the best but there's a bunch of mediocre busts in that list. Slafkovky's not what they thought. Wright's still struggling. The whole thing isn't the great draft it was marketed as. 

A good NHL roster needs 6 skilled offensive players, 3 solid 2 way players with some offensive skill and shutdown abilities and 3 physical energy guys that are defensively solid. A good goalie and a competent back up, 2 shut down D men, 2 puck moving D men and 2 more solid veteran D men who you can rely on to fill out the roster and clear the net area. That's always been the model and it's still the model and it's NOT THAT COMPLICATED but the Sabres know better. 

[bunomatic]

My take. The NHL is a bad place to develop players. Unless they are Crosby, McDavid, Ovi types. KA runs them into the league and throws them into situations they can not possibly handle. Most players need a slow bake in the AHL to gain confidence etc.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, klos1963 said:

Regier is arguably the best GM we've had. Punch is certainly in the discussion,  but different era.

Never understood the hate for him.  So much success,  yet he gets the blame for Golisano not spending to retain his stars.

Punch was better.   Then Regier.  Bowman as a GM was hit and miss, so was Muckler.   Meehan did some creative things.  

Murray was the wrong guy to trust with the tear down, so he get the title of the worst.  

[JoeSchmoe]

Hey guys... Great discussion! I'm in Punta Cana right now enjoying a cocktail so I won't be reporting in as much as I might like. Hopefully you guys get this whole thing sorted out without me... The team is counting on you!

[Pimlach]

4 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Hey guys... Great discussion! I'm in Punta Cana right now enjoying a cocktail so I won't be reporting in as much as I might like. Hopefully you guys get this whole thing sorted out without me... The team is counting on you!

OK, I definitely see palm trees.  

[Crusader1969]

9 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I couldn’t disagree more. Out 1st rd decisions have been the least of our issues. Of all our 1st rd picks, the only one firmly established as not being worthy of his place in the draft is Nylander. Every other pick you have listed has either proven worthy of their draft position or it is too early to draw a final conclusion. Remember when people didn’t think Reinhart had proven himself worthy of his draft position? 

The much bigger issue has been failing to surround these players with the depth, talent, experience, coaching, and culture that breeds success. 

1000% right.  When we people learn, the good players aren't the actual problem 

[inkman]

3 hours ago, JP51 said:

This is not an unfair assessment... not gonna lie... but I did not like him... and also dont forget Rigas was even worse than Golisano...  I think I hated him because he didnt find a way to retain Briere and Drury and then matched the Vanek offer instead of taking the 4 1st round picks from Edmonton which would have been a gold mine. 

This take the four first round picks trope needs to die.  You posted this in a thread discussing how futile the first round picks have been.  Holy smokes! 

[Thorner]

Drafting looks fine tbh 

issue isn’t who we are drafting but the roles we are asking them to fill. An over reliance on youth owing to the failure to prioritize and produce a competent veteran component 

[Crusader1969]

8 hours ago, Kristian said:

It’s further enhanced by the fact that I can’t remember the last time we picked a hidden gem in the later rounds.

Doesn’t have to be a Datsyuk, a Henrik Tallinder would do.

Hagel?

Just now, Thorner said:

Drafting looks fine tbh 

issue isn’t who we are drafting but the roles we are asking them to fill. An over reliance on youth owing to the failure to prioritize and produce a competent veteran component 

Perfection.  

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Hagel?

Perfection.  

Redundant honestly. I should have read the thread first haha 

[Crusader1969]

23 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Drafting looks fine tbh 

issue isn’t who we are drafting but the roles we are asking them to fill. An over reliance on youth owing to the failure to prioritize and produce a competent veteran component 

No, I think it keeps needing to be said cause it's the right answer

Power being in his 3rd season and still has Jokiharju as a partner is unconscionable.   
 

[JP51]

36 minutes ago, inkman said:

This take the four first round picks trope needs to die.  You posted this in a thread discussing how futile the first round picks have been.  Holy smokes! 

Nevermind I get it now... you are saying I have hated our drafting so why would I want Darcy to get 4 1st rd picks instead of keeping Vanek... i would say I liked Vanek as a scorer I never thought he was a leader and was one dimensional. At the time Edmonton was bad and we weren't in a 14 year death spiral. I believed the very high picks that Vanek would have gotten us would help rebuild/re tool the team more than Vanek would have after losing Drury and Briere... you disagree fine plenty did ... but others agreed... bottom line we will never know. But I do know that that year started us on our way to this death spiral .... i think also I hated the way Drury and Briere were handled even before and leading up to their contracts by Darcy and ownership

[Jorcus]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Hey guys... Great discussion! I'm in Punta Cana right now enjoying a cocktail so I won't be reporting in as much as I might like. Hopefully you guys get this whole thing sorted out without me... The team is counting on you!

So not only are we losing our players to Palm trees we are now losing our posters?

[ska-T Palmtown]

3 hours ago, Jorcus said:

So not only are we losing our players to Palm trees we are now losing our posters?

Can the mods update the motif in here with a few palm trees to help stem the attrition? (I would not mind if they did something about my taxes too, honestly)