Cozens spot on roster - rumor

[Pimlach]

12 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

I'll never understand people who think top 6 winger is a priority when Jokiharju is on the 2nd defensive pairing

Top 6 forward (preferably a center) and a Top 4 "defensive defenseman" are the biggest needs.  

[Carmel Corn]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Top 6 forward (preferably a center) and a Top 4 "defensive defenseman" are the biggest needs.  

Sadly, this was already viewed as needs at the end of last season….but GMKA’s incompetence has us still dealing with these gaps

[Crusader1969]

It's so sadhow much of a joke this team has become to the national media.  However, I'm glad that everyone is talking about the futility of the team rather then no one notice or care. We really just need Wayne to call them a Mickey Mouse Franchise 

2 main points I've heard and that I completely agree with 

1) Adams (palm trees aside) mentioned the Bills being a destination team when they got Josh Allen.   But Adams had his Josh Allen, in Jack Eichel, when he got the job and he ran him out of town.  So frustrating thinking where this team would be right now if they were a franchise that both Sam and Jack wanted to play for 

2) it would be a joke if they traded away Cozens.  Yes he is struggling but work with the player and you (the Sabres) be the ones to get him back on track.  Don't trade him away to see another team fix him and have him become a star   
 

im glad that the entire hockey world is talking about the Sabres   Hopefully ownership is feeling the heat and is tired / embarrassed to be a laughing stock 

my fear is Pegula is too busy with the Bills to even notice or care   

 

[Pimlach]

57 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

It's so sadhow much of a joke this team has become to the national media.  However, I'm glad that everyone is talking about the futility of the team rather then no one notice or care. We really just need Wayne to call them a Mickey Mouse Franchise 

2 main points I've heard and that I completely agree with 

1) Adams (palm trees aside) mentioned the Bills being a destination team when they got Josh Allen.   But Adams had his Josh Allen, in Jack Eichel, when he got the job and he ran him out of town.  So frustrating thinking where this team would be right now if they were a franchise that both Sam and Jack wanted to play for 

2) it would be a joke if they traded away Cozens.  Yes he is struggling but work with the player and you (the Sabres) be the ones to get him back on track.  Don't trade him away to see another team fix him and have him become a star   
 

im glad that the entire hockey world is talking about the Sabres   Hopefully ownership is feeling the heat and is tired / embarrassed to be a laughing stock 

my fear is Pegula is too busy with the Bills to even notice or care   

 

Indeed. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Just wondering, but compared to typical NHL players does Cozens (who has a big frame to build on) not look lanky and skinny to you, relatively speaking?

Now also consider this. When you watch a game, why do you notice little Benson so much? Why is he never hard to find? Why is he always near the net (where goals are scored) and why is he always getting into it with the opposing players? 

Meanwhile, why do you often have to look hard to find Quinn, or Peterka or Cozens and others? Why do some games go by and some people have to check to see if they even played? 

Just think about that a little. 

Yeah, cozens looks a little lanky, for sure. There is no denying Benson has really great hockey instincts - not sure how that is relevant to the Cozens "boy-man body" discussion.

While I was having myself a little think, as you so thoughtfully suggested, I also recalled watching how often Benson gets pushed down, pushed around, and knocked over. And I am a huge Benson fan - I love what he brings to the team. 

I just think the discussion over the physique of the upper body of a hockey player is sorta silly considering the current best hockey player on the planet also looks like he needs a spot to get just bar out of the cradle. Does Cozens looks skinny or lanky? Yup. Will bench pressing 350 lbs help him not shoot the puck right into the goalie's crest or not make horrific passing choices or suddenly make him able to cover the spots on the ice in the D-zone where he needs to? Nope.

I don't seem to recall all this odd critique of his body when he was scoring 30. If he was still putting 30 goals in the net (which he did as an even younger more skinny version of himself) - not one peep would be uttered. It is not McDavid's or Crosby's bulging biceps or magical dancing pectorals that make them so hard to get off the puck - it is the fact that they can squat a school bus and they know how to play with leverage.

Cozens' problem is not his "concave chest" but the way he is currently processing and seeing the game. It is in his on-ice decision making skills. I'd take a smart quick hockey player (like Benson) over a body builder any day.

[PerreaultForever]

pound for pound Benson is much stronger than Cozens. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

pound for pound Benson is much stronger than Cozens. 

Sure. But being stronger won't make Cozens a more accurate shooter. It won't make him a better passer. It won't prevent him from turning into instead of away from a defender when he has the puck along the boards or near the blue line. It won't keep him from chasing the puck in the D-zone like an over exuberant golden retriever trying to catch a rabbit he never quite will. 

I think Benson is great, he plays hockey in such a savvy and smart way. I'd clone him. Twice. But he is, at his young 19, less than a 1/2 point per game player. We need Cozens to be way more than that.

I'd love to see Benson track down the D-man, stick lift, steal the puck, whirl it to Cozens and not have Cozens fire it either 2 ft wide or right smack into the goalie. I can dream, I guess.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

Sure. But being stronger won't make Cozens a more accurate shooter. It won't make him a better passer. It won't prevent him from turning into instead of away from a defender when he has the puck along the boards or near the blue line. It won't keep him from chasing the puck in the D-zone like an over exuberant golden retriever trying to catch a rabbit he never quite will. 

I think Benson is great, he plays hockey in such a savvy and smart way. I'd clone him. Twice. But he is, at his young 19, less than a 1/2 point per game player. We need Cozens to be way more than that.

I'd love to see Benson track down the D-man, stick lift, steal the puck, whirl it to Cozens and not have Cozens fire it either 2 ft wide or right smack into the goalie. I can dream, I guess.

Ya, but that's what I'm saying. Cozens should be much better and what he's lacking is that tenacity and spunk that Benson has. He doesn't have to be a perfect shooter. He can be a very effective player in many ways. There's just no reason the young 19 year old should look like more of an NHL player than any of these guys, but he does. That's just how bad they are. 

[EM88]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Ya, but that's what I'm saying. Cozens should be much better and what he's lacking is that tenacity and spunk that Benson has. He doesn't have to be a perfect shooter. He can be a very effective player in many ways. There's just no reason the young 19 year old should look like more of an NHL player than any of these guys, but he does. That's just how bad they are. 

One of my issues with Cozen is that his decision making is poor. So poor that it almost seems like in any situation he makes the incorrect decision on the ice. I am not sure more tenacity changes that.

When on the forcheck he often goes in too deep chasing the puck or trying to make a hit in the very moments he should be laying back because  whether he makes a hit or not the puck is going out of the zone with a lot of open ice.  Adding more tenacity, or aggressiveness to his game just makes that issue worth.  A post a few weeks ago someone called him the anti-Patrice Bergeon. Bergon knew when to take the body and when it was better not to do that so he could get back in the play. He may have been the best ever at that. Cozens seems to be the worst ever.

Cozens would be a better player with only 2 things I can see.  He magically turns into a better shooter.  I do not see how that happens.  2nd he makes better decisions in all areas.  He doesn't take that shot on the PP for the sake of taking shot when no one is in front. Or in a close game if the Sabres have one forchecker in deep already, he doesn't make himself the 2nd guy in deep where usually the puck goes the other way against you.

He has almost zero situational awareness out there. He doesn't read where his teammates are and cover for them.  He isn't aware of where all the opposition is, instead only having a singular focus on the puck. And as the Wayne Gretzky saying is, don't go to where the puck is, go to where it is going. I do not think I have ever seen a hockey player in the NHL who goes to where the puck is or has been, and has no skill or sense of where it is going, more than Cozens.

Unless someone can make him a more accurate shooter and into his 5th season he starts to 'see' the game differently on the ice, I do not see how he becomes a better player at this point.

[Phil Goyette]

While Couzens isn't the only underachiever on this team, at some point, this team needs to stop sending talent out of town, and just demand better play.

I've said this since the Briere/Drury debacle...the Sabres are the farm team for the rest of the NHL.

At some point that has to stop.

And while I'm no fan of KA, Lindy has to have more time to implement his vision for the team.

I was there for the Rangers game. It's not that some are lazy, they are completely out of position on plays, and not doing anything but chasing.

At one point, two Sabres collided with each other, and took each other out of the play. It looked like the a Keystone Cops comedy routine.

Franky, I expected to at least see better discipline from Ruff.

Edited December 13 by Phil Goyette

[mjd1001]

I think this is the best case scenario for Cozens at this point......

-He goes in and out of shooting slumps that last a real long time.  He's not a sniper, he's not going to build on that 31 goal season and give you a couple 40 goal seasons in the future (never say never but....just ABOUT never).  But look at this year so far.  I'm pretty sure he shot ZERO percent in October, but through November AND December he is shooting 13.9%.  

Last year he had entire MONTHS where his shooting percentage was 18.8%, 19.0, and 15.8.  He also had entire months where he shot 3.3, 4.3, and 6.7.

He is a streaky shooter. ALL shooters are streaky but not like him.  We have to realize he is basically a 9-10% shooter (3rd line quality scorer) with the ability to get a LOT hotter than that and a LOT colder than that. Accepting that takes care of the offensive side of the equation. As fans we don't like this but we just have to accept one month he will get 6 goals, but then follow it up with 1 goal in 15 games.

Oh, and up this page I asked if anyone could tell me why he is on the PP and no one responded directly. So, just get him off the Powerplay. He is hideous, terrible on it. He probably single handedly drops the Sabres ranking down on the PP a few points.  He is probably the worst guy in the league that gets regular PP time. NO SPECIAL TEAMS FOR COZENS.

-Now the other half of his game. If I (we) accept the above about his scoring, the HOPE is that somewhere along the way a coach (maybe Lindy) gets him to see the game differently. He has to change how he has played the game without the puck compared to how he has done it his entire life.  Its almost like he was the best kid on the pond out back when he was 6-7 years old and got away with doing whatever he wanted without the puck, but where most guys evolve when they get to juniors..or pro....he has just refused to. He still plays pond hockey, chasing the puck with no regard for taking himself out of the play and no regard for where his linemates are and any respect or awareness of the other team beyond what is directly in his line of sight.

He needs to see the game differently, He has to ADMIT he plays the way he does without the puck and he has to WANT to change that. It hasn't happened....yet.

A coach can only change a player if a player admits he has faults in his game, AND he wans to put the effort into changing it.

So best case scenario:  He is a 16-22 goal scorer. He MIGHT have another 30 goal year, just like he MIGHT have a 10 goal year. But defensively, if he commits to changing his game, he might become 'decent'....not good...but decent enough that he can be valuable 3rd line winger. That is still in the realm of possibility.

Edited December 13 by mjd1001

[Thorner]

There’s more to the offensive side of the game than goals. He’s a centerman. They should work on getting his transition numbers back up to par, and his ability to find his way to both the net and empty spaces where he’ll have more room to work from. He’s not insanely skilled but he’s very athletic and I think there’s more hockey sense to unwrap. This comes down to hockey sense - he’s not a sniper. If he can get the puck to better areas I think his assist totals can really benefit 

[mjd1001]

3 minutes ago, Thorner said:

There’s more to the offensive side of the game than goals. He’s a centerman. They should work on getting his transition numbers back up to par, and his ability to find his way to both the net and empty spaces where he’ll have more room to work from. He’s not insanely skilled but he’s very athletic and I think there’s more hockey sense to unwrap. This comes down to hockey sense - he’s not a sniper. If he can get the puck to better areas I think his assist totals can really benefit 

I agree with that if he stays at center.
 

Now I have no data to back up what I am going to say....this is just my opinion.....

-I think he is pretty good at getting to the front of the net...getting to the 'tough' areas of the ice while carrying the puck. I think he has above average ability to operate in traffic with the puck.  Now, I don't think he is good like Perreault or even Housley were carrying the puck from one end of the ice to the other with stick handing through guys and making them miss.  More what I am referring to is him having the puck on his stick for 2-3 seconds in the offensive zone and making one guy miss taking it away in front of the net.

With that ability I see him GETTING good opportunities for himself, just he's not a good enough shooter to convert them.  (Its also why I thin he's not good on the PP, that skill is not needed on the PP, your PP unit needs vision, awareness, pinpoint passing and shooting accuracy, none of which Cozens is great at).

So, he is pretty good at having the puck on his stick in tight areas in front of the net for a second or two. What I do NOT see is him getting to those areas and finding an uncovered teammate for an easy tap in.  

Is that a skill he can develop? Is it coaching that can force him to look for the open guy instead of blasting the puck into the goalies pads himself?

As to your point..my opinion is he can GET to those 'better areas', he does that already. But he's like a black hole....once the puck goes into him, it rarely comes back out to a teammate. Can he start to have a sense of where his teammates are and be aware to put them into a better position?

If he can develop that he might turn into a pretty good center. Right now I don't see him doing it much (maybe once or twice every couple of games) and that is why I think he is worse as a Center than he would be as a winger.

[bunomatic]

According to the hockey news people are calling.

[Jorcus]

53 minutes ago, Phil Goyette said:

While Couzens isn't the only underachiever on this team, at some point, this team needs to stop sending talent out of town, and just demand better play.

I've said this since the Briere/Drury debacle...the Sabres are the farm team for the rest of the NHL.

At some point that has to stop.

And while I'm no fan of KA, Lindy has to have more time to implement his vision for the team.

I was there for the Rangers game. It's not that some are lazy, they are completely out of position on plays, and not doing anything but chasing.

At one point, two Sabres collided with each other, and took each other out of the play. It looked like the a Keystone Cops comedy routine.

Franky, I expected to at least see better discipline from Ruff.

 

I have noticed a lot of the positioning issues at times. It was bad in the first few games. As the lines settled in it got cleaned up but during this streak it got bad to very bad again. Two players where one should be or worse smashing into each other. A few things to blame it on. Guy's not understanding the system, constant line shuffles, new players in the line up. or some players just not being part of the system. It's probably a little bit of all. I went from a coach who never changed his lines to a coach who will not settle on any line. There has to be a middle some place.    

[...]

1 hour ago, Phil Goyette said:

While Couzens isn't the only underachiever on this team, at some point, this team needs to stop sending talent out of town, and just demand better play.

I've said this since the Briere/Drury debacle...the Sabres are the farm team for the rest of the NHL.

At some point that has to stop.

And while I'm no fan of KA, Lindy has to have more time to implement his vision for the team.

I was there for the Rangers game. It's not that some are lazy, they are completely out of position on plays, and not doing anything but chasing.

At one point, two Sabres collided with each other, and took each other out of the play. It looked like the a Keystone Cops comedy routine.

Franky, I expected to at least see better discipline from Ruff.

Lindy has to neutralize 4+ years of bad coaching and teaching while implementing his system. That is no small ask.

Kouzens, Power, Quinn, Joki, Muel, Thompson and to some degree JJP all have the same problem: poor puck management, slow or over-thinking in game, inability to cover assignments, prolonged shifts. That's the core of the team and it can't survive as constituted.

The level of frustration over the lack of success will always overshadow the small gains they make and it becomes an endless cycle.

These players needed competent vets to play along with them, to cover for their slack in the game while they learn. Instead, they were not only thrown together to "figure it out" themselves, the coaching staff trying to help them "figure it out" were unequivocally not qualified to be in that role.

 

[Sidc3000]

14 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

my fear is Pegula is too busy with the Bills to even notice or car

I don’t fear it at all. I’m confident that he care less about the Sabres. They were just a means to an end. Now the Sabres are a money pit he doesn’t plan on putting any money into to fix. 

[Sidc3000]

11 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

I don’t fear it at all. I’m confident that he care less about the Sabres. They were just a means to an end. Now the Sabres are a money pit he doesn’t plan on putting any money into to fix. 

Fear not Sabres fans. They  “trust their current roster to turn things around” by simply supporting the experience of Lindy Ruff. 
 

https://sports.yahoo.com/insider-reveals-sabres-trade-plans-114045006.html

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, ... said:

Lindy has to neutralize 4+ years of bad coaching and teaching while implementing his system. That is no small ask.

Kouzens, Power, Quinn, Joki, Muel, Thompson and to some degree JJP all have the same problem: poor puck management, slow or over-thinking in game, inability to cover assignments, prolonged shifts. That's the core of the team and it can't survive as constituted.

The level of frustration over the lack of success will always overshadow the small gains they make and it becomes an endless cycle.

These players needed competent vets to play along with them, to cover for their slack in the game while they learn. Instead, they were not only thrown together to "figure it out" themselves, the coaching staff trying to help them "figure it out" were unequivocally not qualified to be in that role.

 

This is true and very real.  The Krueger/Granato coaching era was not NHL level.  

Lindy coming in and still seeing the team struggle is heart breaking, especially because its the Sabre developed players having the most problems. 

Look are the guys Lindy has complimented after a game:  Byram, Greenway, Mcleod, Zucker, Benson, NAK, Malenstyn, and UPL.  

[thewookie1]

Would you trade

 

Cozens & Samuelsson to CGY for Kadri and Weegar?

[Thorner]

I’m fairly hesitant on trading Cozens. I’m not sure if that’s because our C depth will be a comedy act should we deal him, because i still believe in him having a reasonable upside, or if it’s just because I’m not all that interested in adding another puck-moving left shot defenseman who’s “played on his off-hand in the past.” 

[Carmel Corn]

As I think about it, I am not sure I am seeing anything close to an all-out effort by Cozens on the ice.  Even if he is hesitant to get into scrums….I wonder if his overall effort looks like somebody who wants to still be here or not.  I’m starting to think he’s just mailing it in so to maybe get traded.  IDK, thoughts?

[ska-T Palmtown]

1 hour ago, Carmel Corn said:

As I think about it, I am not sure I am seeing anything close to an all-out effort by Cozens on the ice.  Even if he is hesitant to get into scrums….I wonder if his overall effort looks like somebody who wants to still be here or not.  I’m starting to think he’s just mailing it in so to maybe get traded.  IDK, thoughts?

The optimist in me hopes he would never do that. That voice says things like "he's a kid in real slump and he can't find his way out" and other crap.

The realist thinks he is having A LOT of trouble playing responsible hockey and his brain is not processing the game fast enough leading to the dreaded "thinking" on the ice. I am not convinced he sees the game well enough to be counted on as a 2C.

The angry little troll in me wants to smack him upside the head and yell "if you are not going to contribute on the score sheet, at least skate super friggin' hard and try to keep the other team off it, too!!"

He's gotta know that he has a fairly heavy contract and given Adams' reluctance to "lose" another trade, that makes a Cozens trade fairly unlikely. And his agent better be telling him that the worse he plays, the LESS Buffalo will get for him, reducing his odds of getting traded even further. Trying hard is a win-win; Sabres probably do better meaning it might be fun to play here again, his trade value goes up meaning KA might trade him for a decent offer if the rest of the team continues to suck.

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, EM88 said:

One of my issues with Cozen is that his decision making is poor. So poor that it almost seems like in any situation he makes the incorrect decision on the ice. I am not sure more tenacity changes that.

When on the forcheck he often goes in too deep chasing the puck or trying to make a hit in the very moments he should be laying back because  whether he makes a hit or not the puck is going out of the zone with a lot of open ice.  Adding more tenacity, or aggressiveness to his game just makes that issue worth.  A post a few weeks ago someone called him the anti-Patrice Bergeon. Bergon knew when to take the body and when it was better not to do that so he could get back in the play. He may have been the best ever at that. Cozens seems to be the worst ever.

Cozens would be a better player with only 2 things I can see.  He magically turns into a better shooter.  I do not see how that happens.  2nd he makes better decisions in all areas.  He doesn't take that shot on the PP for the sake of taking shot when no one is in front. Or in a close game if the Sabres have one forchecker in deep already, he doesn't make himself the 2nd guy in deep where usually the puck goes the other way against you.

He has almost zero situational awareness out there. He doesn't read where his teammates are and cover for them.  He isn't aware of where all the opposition is, instead only having a singular focus on the puck. And as the Wayne Gretzky saying is, don't go to where the puck is, go to where it is going. I do not think I have ever seen a hockey player in the NHL who goes to where the puck is or has been, and has no skill or sense of where it is going, more than Cozens.

Unless someone can make him a more accurate shooter and into his 5th season he starts to 'see' the game differently on the ice, I do not see how he becomes a better player at this point.

I think that's a reasonable critique. I know people hate this sort of comment but I think he's not very bright. He is thinking too much, but thinking slowly, rather than instinctively reacting, gets confused with the new system and makes poor decisions, sometimes in panic mode. The speed of the NHL game requires instinctive play and quick decision making and he just can't do that. 

It's a big problem when you are expecting him to be the leader of the line. I guarantee you he will thrive if slotted in between 2 solid smart veterans on another team. You slap him in between Marchand and Pasternak for example and he's going to end up putting up a point a game or more after a short adjustment. He will be just like Reinhart and the rest. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

59 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

I think that's a reasonable critique. I know people hate this sort of comment but I think he's not very bright. He is thinking too much, but thinking slowly, rather than instinctively reacting, gets confused with the new system and makes poor decisions, sometimes in panic mode. The speed of the NHL game requires instinctive play and quick decision making and he just can't do that. 

That is an extremely legit concern at this point based on the plays he makes on the ice. He could be book smart but still not able to process the pro game quickly enough when on the ice. He appears to have the athleticism to do things, he just chooses to do them in the wrong order or at the wrong time. Infuriating, honestly.

As a person with little-to-no appreciable physical gifts, I get so mad when I see people with physical talent waste it! 🤣

All the non-game stuff means nothing if you can't put it all together when it counts. The Bills drafted some QB years ago who aced some wonderlic test or whatever ... terrible in the game.