Cozens spot on roster - rumor

[ska-T Palmtown]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Why do you say that Cozens isn't fit because of his less than stellar offseason workouts? What are you basing that view on? 

Cozens does not look like this, so he must not work out. He must not be a "man". He must be "soft". LOL - the toxic masculinity on display on this board sometimes is hilarious. This is not the current day NHL. McDavid - the best hockey player on the planet - looks like some schmoe at planet fitness with his shirt off ... must not be a man and certainly can't be good at hockey 🙃

[_Q_]

29 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

Cozens does not look like this, so he must not work out. He must not be a "man". He must be "soft". LOL - the toxic masculinity on display on this board sometimes is hilarious. This is not the current day NHL. McDavid - the best hockey player on the planet - looks like some schmoe at planet fitness with his shirt off ... must not be a man and certainly can't be good at hockey 🙃

Toxic masculinity?  Bwahahaha

[JohnC]

26 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

Cozens does not look like this, so he must not work out. He must not be a "man". He must be "soft". LOL - the toxic masculinity on display on this board sometimes is hilarious. This is not the current day NHL. McDavid - the best hockey player on the planet - looks like some schmoe at planet fitness with his shirt off ... must not be a man and certainly can't be good at hockey 🙃

You may not be aware of it but that picture is of @Pimlach when he was young. He was called the "Buffalo Stud". The young ladies not only swooned over him but they also had posters of him on their bedroom walls. He got so exhausted playing the manly part that he had to leave the area to get more rest. 😁

[Pimlach]

5 minutes ago, JohnC said:

You may not be aware of it but that picture is of @Pimlach when he was young. He was called the "Buffalo Stud". The young ladies not only swooned over him but they also had posters of him on their bedroom walls. He got so exhausted playing the manly part that he had to leave the area to get more rest. 😁

This photo was inspired by a Frank Sinatra album cover. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2024 by Pimlach

[ska-T Palmtown]

15 minutes ago, _Q_ said:

Toxic masculinity?  Bwahahaha

Sure. Laugh all you want - if you don't think it is a real issue, that tells me all I will ever need to know about you. Call it whatever you want, but constant talk about how to be a "real man" is not useful to a society that already sees too many issues with male violence and the male gender's inability to deal with real human emotions in an open, honest, and healthy way.

[JohnC]

15 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

This photo was inspired by a Frank Sinatra album cover. 

 

 

Can you sing?

https://www.google.com/search?q=record+album+covers+sinatra+with+hat&oq=record+album+covers+sinatra+with+hat&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160l3.23445j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=j0VL_h9e0vkIHM&imgdii=BvWKhvmJKhVe7M&pvs=0

 

[Archie Lee]

From Frozen Tools Line Combos, here are the top 7 wing-combinations (5v5) with Cozens at centre this season:

1.) Quinn/Benson

2.) Quinn/Kulich

3.) Krebs/Benson

4.) Peterka/Benson

5.) Peterka/Quinn

6.) Lafferty/Benson

7.) Kulich/Benson

I'm not blaming these young players (or Lafferty!!) for Cozens' struggles.  As I've said before, they all could use better linemates.  But on the season we have paired Cozens almost exclusively with kids 23 and under.  It's crazy.  If we trade Cozens without getting back an established, legit, top-6 player, under 30 with term, then we have learned nothing.  

 

[mjd1001]

19 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

From Frozen Tools Line Combos, here are the top 7 wing-combinations (5v5) with Cozens at centre this season:

1.) Quinn/Benson

2.) Quinn/Kulich

3.) Krebs/Benson

4.) Peterka/Benson

5.) Peterka/Quinn

6.) Lafferty/Benson

7.) Kulich/Benson

I'm not blaming these young players (or Lafferty!!) for Cozens' struggles.  As I've said before, they all could use better linemates.  But on the season we have paired Cozens almost exclusively with kids 23 and under.  It's crazy.  If we trade Cozens without getting back an established, legit, top-6 player, under 30 with term, then we have learned nothing.  

 

My problem with Cozens is, I don't think the above really matters that much at this point. 

He actually is getting scoring opportunities. He's just not converting because he's not a good shooter. Putting older more experienced wingers with him won't help much. Because what do you want to accomplish in the offensive zone? He's already getting the scoring opportunities from high danger chances. 

A more experienced winger does not turn his shooting, accuracy up any bit and make the shots he takes go in anymore.

And in terms of defensively without the puck, the same thing kind of applies. When you watch the mistakes he makes, he's not put in a bad position by his linemates, he is taking himself out of the play regardless of his line mates and honestly, usually quite oblivious of them.

Maybe putting more veteran line mates with him will be able to cover for him more but that doesn't make him a better player. He has to stop making the mistakes himself, and I have been watching replays of him closely for the past 2 and 1/2 years and he has not gotten one tiny bit better in this aspect.

[Ogelthorpe]

He has not been the same since Hathaway beat his a$$!

[Archie Lee]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

My problem with Cozens is, I don't think the above really matters that much at this point. 

He actually is getting scoring opportunities. He's just not converting because he's not a good shooter. Putting older more experienced wingers with him won't help much. Because what do you want to accomplish in the offensive zone? He's already getting the scoring opportunities from high danger chances. 

A more experienced winger does not turn his shooting, accuracy up any bit and make the shots he takes go in anymore.

And in terms of defensively without the puck, the same thing kind of applies. When you watch the mistakes he makes, he's not put in a bad position by his linemates, he is taking himself out of the play regardless of his line mates and honestly, usually quite oblivious of them.

Maybe putting more veteran line mates with him will be able to cover for him more but that doesn't make him a better player. He has to stop making the mistakes himself, and I have been watching replays of him closely for the past 2 and 1/2 years and he has not gotten one tiny bit better in this aspect.

My position is that Cozens, like almost every player who has ever played in the NHL, would benefit from playing with better linemates. 

[GoPuckYourself]

On 12/9/2024 at 5:59 PM, pi2000 said:

This trend of drafting and developing players, then trading them just before they hit their stride.. has got to stop.

Cozens is going through a slump, so is Quinn.    It's 26 games into the season. 

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I agree with this, although Cozens hasn’t lived up to his hype yet. I think there is much more for him to give. 
We have some center prospects in the pipeline none of them have the physicality of Cozens which we should be trying to obtain more of imo. 
 

Edited December 11, 2024 by GoPuckYourself

[mjd1001]

5 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

He has not been the same since Hathaway beat his a$$!

That simply isn't true.

I posted this with statistics to back it up in the past couple of days. Before the fight and after the fight That year, he was basically the same player. Shots on goal. High danger chances. Shooting percentage. Plus minus. Hits per 60. All of those numbers were basically the same before the fight as they were after the fight with very small variances. 

The only difference in his play was his 30 goal season. And his 30 goal season had really one thing that was different about it. He had an abnormally high shooting percentage that year. Again his plus minus, his power play time, his shots per game, is high danger chances, his own percentages... They were the same that year pretty much as they were the year before, the year after, and this year. 

Management and a lot of the fans have overrated him based on a anomaly of a one-year high shooting percentage.  He has simply reverted to the mean of the rest of his career. Which is a 10% shooter meaning he'll get you 15 to 22 goals a year, will eat up power play time without being a good power play scorer, is awful without the puck, bad at face-offs, and can generate his own shot pretty well but doesn't convert well. 

The reason that many of us think he doesn't have much value anymore and want to see him move to Wing, move to a lower line, or even traded... As we are going on the assumption that he is what he has been his entire career, and the only one thing that was different at one point of his career is now reverting back to what it actually is.

But again to the original point... In the small sample size before that game and then after the game... He was pretty much the same player. It just looks like the fight mattered because the player that he has been was a drop off from what we expected based on the previous season.

[Jorcus]

40 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

From Frozen Tools Line Combos, here are the top 7 wing-combinations (5v5) with Cozens at centre this season:

1.) Quinn/Benson

2.) Quinn/Kulich

3.) Krebs/Benson

4.) Peterka/Benson

5.) Peterka/Quinn

6.) Lafferty/Benson

7.) Kulich/Benson

I'm not blaming these young players (or Lafferty!!) for Cozens' struggles.  As I've said before, they all could use better linemates.  But on the season we have paired Cozens almost exclusively with kids 23 and under.  It's crazy.  If we trade Cozens without getting back an established, legit, top-6 player, under 30 with term, then we have learned nothing.  

 

 

Given the choices of all those combos I would take number 7. I hate using Krebs with Cozens and Benson. I don't  like Krebs on any of the top 2 lines right now. He is a good for checker and can cycle well with the third or 4th lines but he is not a great passer and they never seem to know exactly where is going to be when they try to pass it to him. Benson can be a little erratic positionally as well but he is starting to develop chemistry with Cozens and Benson can back check well which helps. If there are no better options I will take Yuri on the right wing because he is strong enough and fast enough to get back and play D. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

That simply isn't true.

I posted this with statistics to back it up in the past couple of days. Before the fight and after the fight That year, he was basically the same player. Shots on goal. High danger chances. Shooting percentage. Plus minus. Hits per 60. All of those numbers were basically the same before the fight as they were after the fight with very small variances. 

The only difference in his play was his 30 goal season. And his 30 goal season had really one thing that was different about it. He had an abnormally high shooting percentage that year. Again his plus minus, his power play time, his shots per game, is high danger chances, his own percentages... They were the same that year pretty much as they were the year before, the year after, and this year. 

Management and a lot of the fans have overrated him based on a anomaly of a one-year high shooting percentage.  He has simply reverted to the mean of the rest of his career. Which is a 10% shooter meaning he'll get you 15 to 22 goals a year, will eat up power play time without being a good power play scorer, is awful without the puck, bad at face-offs, and can generate his own shot pretty well but doesn't convert well. 

The reason that many of us think he doesn't have much value anymore and want to see him move to Wing, move to a lower line, or even traded... As we are going on the assumption that he is what he has been his entire career, and the only one thing that was different at one point of his career is now reverting back to what it actually is.

But again to the original point... In the small sample size before that game and then after the game... He was pretty much the same player. It just looks like the fight mattered because the player that he has been was a drop off from what we expected based on the previous season.

You won't get around the story a certain sector of this forum wants to tell themselves about big tough hockey players 🤷‍♀️

[_Q_]

5 hours ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

You won't get around the story a certain sector of this forum wants to tell themselves about big tough hockey players 🤷‍♀️

Right, what we really need are small weak hockey players.

And yes you are correct, I AM a toxic man.

[SABRES 0311]

17 hours ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

Sure. Laugh all you want - if you don't think it is a real issue, that tells me all I will ever need to know about you. Call it whatever you want, but constant talk about how to be a "real man" is not useful to a society that already sees too many issues with male violence and the male gender's inability to deal with real human emotions in an open, honest, and healthy way.

This mind set has definitely been instilled in Owen Power. 😂 

[SwampD]

I always thought that hockey was just organized toxic masculinity,… with a scoreboard.

Edited December 12, 2024 by SwampD

[mjd1001]

My daily picking on Dylan Cozens.....I am going to pose a question about Cozens on the Powerplay.

Why does he keep getting used on the Powerplay at all, like ever?

 

-He leads the team in Powerplay ice time this year, and he has been a fixture on the 1st powerplay unit for a few years now, Only Tuch and Thompson have more PP time among forwards for the last 3 seasons, but even then he's right up there with him.

-Yet he has a total of 3 powerplay goals over the last 2 seasons. He has taken part in over 250 powerplays in the past 2 seasons with only 3 goals scored.

-If you look at his entire career, even including his 31 goal year, he has 11 total powerplay goals over those 4+ (partially through his 5th) season now. There are a bunch of guys who have over 20 just in the past 1 1/3 season. Reinhart had 27 PP goals last year alone, yet Cozens averaged 2.9 goals per 82 games on the PP. Reinhart had 27! 42 different guys last year had double digits or more. Yet Cozens averages 2.9 per 82....2.5 per 'season' 

Ok, so lets break down his production on the PP, not just this year and last, but lets include that 31 goal year to make the numbers look as much in his favor as possible. Over that time (from the start of his 31 goal season until now) on the PP, 7 forwards have over 250 minutes of PP time:

-In terms of goals per 60, Cozens is last at 0.99.  Tage, for example, has 3.52, he scores at more than 3.5 times the rate of Cozens, but everyone else is higher too.

-Maybe he's a set up guy? Nope. Well he moves slightly up the list, he's now 5th out of 7th on the team in PP points, slightly edging Olofsson and Peterka but behind everyone else and WAY behind what most forwards around the league produce.

-Or maybe He's giving up shot attempts to other players and if he did take shots he'd do better?  No, not really. This year he leads the team in PP shots (shooting only 4.7% on the PP). Over the last 3 years only Tage and Skinner have taken more shots. Cozens takes shots away from guys who convert at a much higher rate.

He somehow manages to shoot even worse on the PP than he does even strength. Of the shots he takes for his career, he is shooting 8.7% on the PP. By FAR the lowest among the guys who get time. Thompson, Tuch, Skinner, Mitts, Olofsson...all 14%-20%. Cozens dead least at 8.7%. 

All of the above is over the course of years. Its not a small sample size. I didn't 'cherry pick' just this year where he is struggling. This is who he is.

Finally, maybe it is some intangible he brings to the PP. He doesn't shoot well, he doesn't get many assists, he doesn't score for some reason, but him just being on the ice opens things up for other players? The coaches put him out there because, well, the PP just 'clicks' better when he is on it whether he gets on the stat sheet?  Nope, that one is a RESOUNDING no.

Its a small sample size, but I looked at what happened last year when he missed those games because of the fight. How the PP did when he wasn't playing and not on the PP, vs what it was like before and after he got back and was put back on it.

-The FOUR games BEFORE he got hurt and missed time, when he was on the PP, the Sabres were 0 for 9 on the PP over those 4 games.

-Cozens then missed the next 2 games, the Sabres scored on the PP in both games without him (2 for 7, 28.6%)

-Cozens returned to the PP then, and over the next 4 games with him on the PP, the team went 0 for 10.

So, Why on the Powerplay at all?

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2024 by mjd1001

[JohnC]

On 12/11/2024 at 2:22 PM, mjd1001 said:

That simply isn't true.

I posted this with statistics to back it up in the past couple of days. Before the fight and after the fight That year, he was basically the same player. Shots on goal. High danger chances. Shooting percentage. Plus minus. Hits per 60. All of those numbers were basically the same before the fight as they were after the fight with very small variances. 

The only difference in his play was his 30 goal season. And his 30 goal season had really one thing that was different about it. He had an abnormally high shooting percentage that year. Again his plus minus, his power play time, his shots per game, is high danger chances, his own percentages... They were the same that year pretty much as they were the year before, the year after, and this year. 

Management and a lot of the fans have overrated him based on a anomaly of a one-year high shooting percentage.  He has simply reverted to the mean of the rest of his career. Which is a 10% shooter meaning he'll get you 15 to 22 goals a year, will eat up power play time without being a good power play scorer, is awful without the puck, bad at face-offs, and can generate his own shot pretty well but doesn't convert well. 

The reason that many of us think he doesn't have much value anymore and want to see him move to Wing, move to a lower line, or even traded... As we are going on the assumption that he is what he has been his entire career, and the only one thing that was different at one point of his career is now reverting back to what it actually is.

But again to the original point... In the small sample size before that game and then after the game... He was pretty much the same player. It just looks like the fight mattered because the player that he has been was a drop off from what we expected based on the previous season.

What did the fight that he instigated accomplish? He got his arse whipped and his play dropped for a period of time. Instead of instigating an idiotic fight that jeopardizes your health (risk broken hand or concussion), I have a better suggestion: Hit the freaking net more often when you shoot! 

[ska-T Palmtown]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What did the fight that he instigated accomplish? He got his arse whipped and his play dropped for a period of time. Instead of instigating an idiotic fight that jeopardizes your health (risk broken hand or concussion), I have a better suggestion: Hit the freaking net more often when you shoot! 

I think he had bitten off more than he could chew previously and his dance partners kinda gave him a break. For some reason, this chap thought he would teach the scrappy young kid a lesson. I guess he did?

[EM88]

12 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

My daily picking on Dylan Cozens.....I am going to pose a question about Cozens on the Powerplay.

Why does he keep getting used on the Powerplay at all, like ever?

 

-He leads the team in Powerplay ice time this year, and he has been a fixture on the 1st powerplay unit for a few years now, Only Tuch and Thompson have more PP time among forwards for the last 3 seasons, but even then he's right up there with him.

-Yet he has a total of 3 powerplay goals over the last 2 seasons. He has taken part in over 250 powerplays in the past 2 seasons with only 3 goals scored.

-If you look at his entire career, even including his 31 goal year, he has 11 total powerplay goals over those 4+ (partially through his 5th) season now. There are a bunch of guys who have over 20 just in the past 1 1/3 season. Reinhart had 27 PP goals last year alone, yet Cozens averaged 2.9 goals per 82 games on the PP. Reinhart had 27! 42 different guys last year had double digits or more. Yet Cozens averages 2.9 per 82....2.5 per 'season' 

Ok, so lets break down his production on the PP, not just this year and last, but lets include that 31 goal year to make the numbers look as much in his favor as possible. Over that time (from the start of his 31 goal season until now) on the PP, 7 forwards have over 250 minutes of PP time:

-In terms of goals per 60, Cozens is last at 0.99.  Tage, for example, has 3.52, he scores at more than 3.5 times the rate of Cozens, but everyone else is higher too.

-Maybe he's a set up guy? Nope. Well he moves slightly up the list, he's now 5th out of 7th on the team in PP points, slightly edging Olofsson and Peterka but behind everyone else and WAY behind what most forwards around the league produce.

-Or maybe He's giving up shot attempts to other players and if he did take shots he'd do better?  No, not really. This year he leads the team in PP shots (shooting only 4.7% on the PP). Over the last 3 years only Tage and Skinner have taken more shots. Cozens takes shots away from guys who convert at a much higher rate.

He somehow manages to shoot even worse on the PP than he does even strength. Of the shots he takes for his career, he is shooting 8.7% on the PP. By FAR the lowest among the guys who get time. Thompson, Tuch, Skinner, Mitts, Olofsson...all 14%-20%. Cozens dead least at 8.7%. 

All of the above is over the course of years. Its not a small sample size. I didn't 'cherry pick' just this year where he is struggling. This is who he is.

Finally, maybe it is some intangible he brings to the PP. He doesn't shoot well, he doesn't get many assists, he doesn't score for some reason, but him just being on the ice opens things up for other players? The coaches put him out there because, well, the PP just 'clicks' better when he is on it whether he gets on the stat sheet?  Nope, that one is a RESOUNDING no.

Its a small sample size, but I looked at what happened last year when he missed those games because of the fight. How the PP did when he wasn't playing and not on the PP, vs what it was like before and after he got back and was put back on it.

-The FOUR games BEFORE he got hurt and missed time, when he was on the PP, the Sabres were 0 for 9 on the PP over those 4 games.

-Cozens then missed the next 2 games, the Sabres scored on the PP in both games without him (2 for 7, 28.6%)

-Cozens returned to the PP then, and over the next 4 games with him on the PP, the team went 0 for 10.

So, Why on the Powerplay at all?

 

 

 

The only possible answer to me is coaches see how fast he skates, they know where he was drafted, and see his shot in practice and think Cozens had some raw talent deep down, and those coaches want to be the one to draw it out.

They have all tried. At first glance Granato looks to have succeeded in one single season, but what is more likely is that those 31 goals may have been a mirage, a one time occurence that outright masked other problems with his game that have not improved.

There is a lot of data up there but it does support how Cozens is a player that likely hurts this team, adding to losses more than he does to wins.

He hurts the team actively.  He does not produce anymore.  I think his mistakes have gone down a slight bit without the puck, but he still makes as many as any other forward so he hurts you that way.

He is a skilled player, but he is not a good player. 

As per what you mentioned above, he also hurts you by, inexplicably, taking opportunities away from someone else, almost anyone else, with talent on the PP, sucking the team's PP production down with him.

Edited December 12, 2024 by EM88

[PerreaultForever]

23 hours ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

You won't get around the story a certain sector of this forum wants to tell themselves about big tough hockey players 🤷‍♀️

Just wondering, but compared to typical NHL players does Cozens (who has a big frame to build on) not look lanky and skinny to you, relatively speaking?

Now also consider this. When you watch a game, why do you notice little Benson so much? Why is he never hard to find? Why is he always near the net (where goals are scored) and why is he always getting into it with the opposing players? 

Meanwhile, why do you often have to look hard to find Quinn, or Peterka or Cozens and others? Why do some games go by and some people have to check to see if they even played? 

Just think about that a little. 

[EM88]

23 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Its a small sample size, but I looked at what happened last year when he missed those games because of the fight. How the PP did when he wasn't playing and not on the PP, vs what it was like before and after he got back and was put back on it.

-The FOUR games BEFORE he got hurt and missed time, when he was on the PP, the Sabres were 0 for 9 on the PP over those 4 games.

-Cozens then missed the next 2 games, the Sabres scored on the PP in both games without him (2 for 7, 28.6%)

-Cozens returned to the PP then, and over the next 4 games with him on the PP, the team went 0 for 10.

The above is a very small sample size, but it speaks to me somehow.  When I watch the Sabres powerplay Cozens often times to be more 'in the way' than he helps. And often times he just shoots in a way where it seems like there is near zero chance of it going in, and I wonder if not taking any shot at all would be better than Cozens slapping the puck at the net and it resulting in the puck getting out of the zone.

I normally would discount the small sample size. However the trend above supports what many of us see with our own eyes.

Edited December 12, 2024 by EM88

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Just wondering, but compared to typical NHL players does Cozens (who has a big frame to build on) not look lanky and skinny to you, relatively speaking?

Now also consider this. When you watch a game, why do you notice little Benson so much? Why is he never hard to find? Why is he always near the net (where goals are scored) and why is he always getting into it with the opposing players? 

Meanwhile, why do you often have to look hard to find Quinn, or Peterka or Cozens and others? Why do some games go by and some people have to check to see if they even played? 

Just think about that a little. 

The TNT crew focused on Benson a lot.  At first someone gave Schneider big props for standing up to ....  Benson.  I was laughing at that.  He was taking on Benson.   Then the TNT crew realized, Benson is that 5'10" 170'ish pound 19 year old, and they isolated him a lot after that because he was playing hard.  

It was like Benson knew how pissed of his coach was, and he understands how he wants them to play.  So he does it.   Greenway played hard.  Aube-Kubel too.  

The top line players played with intensity and purpose for the last 15 minutes of the game, that's about it.   They wasted another good game by UPL.  

[Crusader1969]

On 12/11/2024 at 1:45 PM, Archie Lee said:

From Frozen Tools Line Combos, here are the top 7 wing-combinations (5v5) with Cozens at centre this season:

1.) Quinn/Benson

2.) Quinn/Kulich

3.) Krebs/Benson

4.) Peterka/Benson

5.) Peterka/Quinn

6.) Lafferty/Benson

7.) Kulich/Benson

I'm not blaming these young players (or Lafferty!!) for Cozens' struggles.  As I've said before, they all could use better linemates.  But on the season we have paired Cozens almost exclusively with kids 23 and under.  It's crazy.  If we trade Cozens without getting back an established, legit, top-6 player, under 30 with term, then we have learned nothing.  

 

I'll never understand people who think top 6 winger is a priority when Jokiharju is on the 2nd defensive pairing