Cozens spot on roster - rumor

[mjd1001]

In his most recent 32 Thoughts: The Podcast episode, NHL insider Elliotte Friedman reported that he believes Buffalo Sabres forward Dylan Cozens has generated trade interest around the NHL.

"If I'm Adams and the Sabres, I'm worried if we trade him, does he become the next guy?" (to have success elsewhere)

full article here:  https://sports.yahoo.com/report-sabres-star-generated-trade-180614584.html

[EM88]

I do not care what he does elsewhere if he isn't doing it here.

So what if he scored 30 goals on a different team?  If he is quitting on plays here, playing terrible defense, and not scoring for you, you don't keep a player sucking up cap space and not helping you just so he doesn't play better someplace else.

I do not want to wait a half season, a full season or multiple seasons to see if he can get better again.  If you can get something of value back in return, and while doing so remove what has been a negative player so far this year from your roster. Do it.

Edited December 9, 2024 by EM88

[LabattBlue]

The question is, what does the return look like?

[ska-T Palmtown]

5 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

The question is, what does the return look like?

This is the key question for pretty much anyone on the roster. If they can get a decent (equal? fair?) return, I'd entertain calls for just about anyone. We got LaFontaine for Turgeon - that was pretty cool.

[Jorcus]

It's a very difficult position to replace. As far as the cap space goes maybe he is not earning all of it right now but it's not as if that salary is blocking this team from bringing someone else in with the cap space we have. There are very few plays he has quit on. The play in question on Saturday was broken down by mjd1001 which pointed to Benson as being a problem among the issues of not getting off the ice when they should have as well as a Utah player coming unguarded into the zone. Yes he makes plenty of mistakes but I would not lay not trying or quitting on Cozens. Be careful what you wish for. 

[Weave]

I wonder if Colorado would trade Mitts for him?  
 

[EM88]

2 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

It's a very difficult position to replace. As far as the cap space goes maybe he is not earning all of it right now but it's not as if that salary is blocking this team from bringing someone else in with the cap space we have. There are very few plays he has quit on. The play in question on Saturday was broken down by mjd1001 which pointed to Benson as being a problem among the issues of not getting off the ice when they should have as well as a Utah player coming unguarded into the zone. Yes he makes plenty of mistakes but I would not lay not trying or quitting on Cozens. Be careful what you wish for. 

I beg to disagree.

Someone just posted a picture where it looks like he quit on a goal the other day.  A picture granted.

MJD1001 posts frequent breakdowns and videos in GDT's that shows he quits on quite a few plays, is late coming back, and with just a tiny bit more hustle could break up what were actual goals against.

He quits on very few plays is narrative on Cozens that I am not sure how it was started, but watching him live at a game and seeing replays of goals when he is on the ice does not support.

[LTS]

How much of it is him trying to force his way off this roster?

I'm beginning to wonder how much of it is for quite a few of them.

 

[mjd1001]

6 minutes ago, EM88 said:

I beg to disagree.

Someone just posted a picture where it looks like he quit on a goal the other day.  A picture granted.

MJD1001 posts frequent breakdowns and videos in GDT's that shows he quits on quite a few plays, is late coming back, and with just a tiny bit more hustle could break up what were actual goals against.

He quits on very few plays is narrative on Cozens that I am not sure how it was started, but watching him live at a game and seeing replays of goals when he is on the ice does not support.

Exactly. Its not just me, but I would say I probably have posted 10 or more game vizualization replays or actual replays and images where he either quits on plays...or is too tired that he can't get back..(which is still his fault for being on the ice too long).

Last year Krebs was the king of either being too slow to get back....or just quitting/not putting the effort into backchecking.  Krebs has gotten better this way...not Cozens....I have seen WAY to many times where Cozens is just gassed or does quit.  Mind you, he won't quit in the offensive zone...he'll charge into the corner to chase a puck in the offensize zone without a problem.  But he does not do that on the backcheck as often as many think....

As Jorcus said he isn't always the only one. Even Benson does it occasionally.  Krebs still has his moments..Thompson, Tuch...all of them do.  But I think Cozens does it a bit more than his reputation leads on.

I'm not down on Benson, but I think some of his play lately is being excused by his 'reputation' as a hard worker who usually does the right thing.  He's another one to keep an eye on, hopefully his play recently isn't a case of him picking up bad habits he didn't have before.

Personally, I would like any of the season ticket holders on this forum, or anybody who goes in person to games frequently, to chime in.  I know I have seen Cozens quit on plays but the only time I get to see replays of that is when there is a goal allowed.....Id be interested in some good feedback of anyone who might follow him in person at a game, shift to shift, play to play, in ways we can't see on Television.

Edited December 9, 2024 by mjd1001

[CallawaySabres]

None of these guys want to be on this team anymore, especially Dahlin. That is the vicious circle of this crap organization. All the good players want out and all we ever get back is crap in return.

I honestly don't think this team will ever be good again as long as they play in this city, with this owner. Players have given up, fans have given up, and every single year they miss the playoffs, the city cares less and less about them. By the time they move, this team will be an afterthought. That is honestly how far this organization has fallen, just a shame. 

[Weave]

13 minutes ago, LTS said:

How much of it is him trying to force his way off this roster?

I'm beginning to wonder how much of it is for quite a few of them.

 

Oof.  The Zach Bogosian, Taylor Hall approach.

[mjd1001]

15 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

None of these guys want to be on this team anymore, especially Dahlin. That is the vicious circle of this crap organization. All the good players want out and all we ever get back is crap in return.

I honestly don't think this team will ever be good again as long as they play in this city, with this owner. Players have given up, fans have given up, and every single year they miss the playoffs, the city cares less and less about them. By the time they move, this team will be an afterthought. That is honestly how far this organization has fallen, just a shame. 

The 'rebuild' this time went off the rails when they decided over the last few years to not spend money on some veterans to play with the younger guys. I don't mean token 'vets' like E. Johnson who are at the end of their career and not effective anymore and you can get on a low-to-no risk, low dollar one year deal. I'm talking GOOD veterans.

Overpay if you must, you had the cap room. Bring in some guys on 1-3 year deals who can still contribute and Play on a line with Cozens and Quinn, can skate and be effective as a partner for Dahlin and/or Power.

But NOPE.  Pegula didn't want to pay the money and kept the team WAY under the cap until the wins came first and the seats were filled first. (you know that "pegula family lifestyle" needed every dollar). That decision may have been the thing that prevented the wins from coming and the seats being filled in the first place.

Sometime when you are a very young team...you have to find a guy who is good enough that  another team will pay $10m over 2 years and give him $18m over 3 years. 2 offseasons ago the rumor was the Sabres were starting to get calls from agents thinking the Sabres were up and coming. They could have loaded up on guys there, 2 and 3 years deals at an inflated price, but still under the cap....brought along the current team better and had those 'vets' contracts up in time to resign your key guys.

You just might have made the playoffs one of the last 2 years AND developed the younger guys a bit better at the same time.

But nope!  They didn't do it and now that time has passed.

 

-Now think of this as far as the younger guys wanting to be here or not.

Look at Mitts.  By all accounts he liked his teammates. He liked Buffalo. He wanted to stay here.  He was playing well at a position of NEED on this team.

But the Sabres traded him apparently because they didn't want to pay him. Now, if you are another player on the team what do you see?

You see a teammate who was one of the more important players, young, I think leading the team in points. A guy who was happy here. He ended up signing for $5.75million in Colorado. A Buffalo Sabre sees a player traded because they team didn't want to pay him and apparently another team only paid him $5.75?  For current guys on the Sabres roster, that has to be utterly demoralizing.

Whether it was Adams decision. Or Pegula's decision. Or Adams working under Pegula's monetary guidelines.  It can't give you much hope of what your future can and will be here if you stay long term.

Edited December 9, 2024 by mjd1001

[inkman]

35 minutes ago, LTS said:

How much of it is him trying to force his way off this roster?

I'm beginning to wonder how much of it is for quite a few of them.

 

Good?  I don’t want him on the roster either 

[Scottysabres]

45 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

It's a very difficult position to replace. As far as the cap space goes maybe he is not earning all of it right now but it's not as if that salary is blocking this team from bringing someone else in with the cap space we have. There are very few plays he has quit on. The play in question on Saturday was broken down by mjd1001 which pointed to Benson as being a problem among the issues of not getting off the ice when they should have as well as a Utah player coming unguarded into the zone. Yes he makes plenty of mistakes but I would not lay not trying or quitting on Cozens. Be careful what you wish for. 

I don't believe fans are quitting on any of them. They'd like a better product on the ice I'd surmise.

If moving on from some of these players accomplishes that and they flourish elsewhere, well, that's a win/win, no?

[pastajoe]

Trade him to Philly. They’ll motivate him by putting Garnet Hathaway on his wing. Either play better or else…

[GoPuckYourself]

I don't want Adams making a singular move for this roster. He has failed miserably at every aspect of his job now we're going to ask him to make a monumental move like this? I really hope he's canned before he can further destroy this roster. 

What realistically is a team willing to give up for Dylan Cozens? I don't want draft picks. I'd either want a top 6 forward or a top 4 Dman which I doubt a team is looking to get rid of their top 6 forawrd for a struggling top 6 forward. So what top 4 Dman would be acceptable? 

[Carmel Corn]

Zegras?  Not the type of player I would hope for, but we need a center.

[ska-T Palmtown]

56 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm not down on Benson, but I think some of his play lately is being excused by his 'reputation' as a hard worker who usually does the right thing.  He's another one to keep an eye on, hopefully his play recently isn't a case of him picking up bad habits he didn't have before.

I am genuinely worried about Benson and Kulich - which is most of the reason I want Kulich to go back to the AHL. Imagine, you are out there busting your balls in the corners, getting loose pucks and you look up and none of your linemates are ready for a pass or you play an angle perfectly as the lead forechecker and your lazy-arse teammate is not in position so there is no turnover. I would not be surprised if you subconsciously start to dial it back a bit from time to time. 

Benson's hockey instincts appear to be very high and I do not question his character, I don't think he is doing it on purpose. In the business world they talk about being on a row boat and some employees are rowing hard and other are not; the hard rowers see the slacker and think (not always consciously) "why I am I rowing so hard if everyone else is not"

I think we still lack the players to stand up and yell "Look how hard effing Benny is rowing! Y'all MF'ers better row harder, too!" At least Lindy calling out Tage and Dylan for not playing center the right way might be the beginning of "row or get out of the boat"

[msw2112]

I have no inside knowledge, but I believe that the team would have been willing to spend on some veteran free agents, but those players were not interested in playing for Buffalo.  Not because of palm trees or taxes, but because of the teams lengthy and ongoing lack of success.  The same may apply to trades for veterans who have no-trade clauses/lists in their contracts.  I don't think that's a false narrative being pushed by Adams.

I also think that Adams and the team are a bit guy-shy about trading away young, talented, (presumably) ascending players.  They're concerned about getting low value in exchange for young guys who will blossom and succeed elsewhere, as Reinhart and Eichel have.  Part of the reason that Reinhart and Eichel have succeeded where they are is because of the veteran players/leaders that were already on those teams, who took the pressure off of them and allowed them to blend in and grow and develop their games.  So it's a conundrum - trade away the young talent to bring in the veterans to help steer the ship while they (those who remain) develop and lose out on the upside that you've cultivated for several years or hang onto the young talent, but potentially see it never develop because of the lack of leadership/mentorship - but one of the Sabres' own making.

By way of example, I believe that Dylan Cozens will be a very good NHL player and a productive top-6 forward.  I don't know if it will happen in Buffalo.  In order to acquire talented veterans to push Cozens down to the 3rd line where he belongs and can properly develop (with the benefit of their mentorship), you have to trade players LIKE Cozens.

Edited December 9, 2024 by msw2112

[ska-T Palmtown]

12 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

Part of the reason that Reinhart and Eichel have succeeded where they are is because of the veteran players/leaders that were already on those teams, who took the pressure off of them and allowed them to blend in and grow and develop their games. 

<quote trimmed to save space>

To be fair ... if I got to practice with Barkov and Brady in FL, I think I'd be able to move up from D to C in my beer league in a year or two 🙂 

[pi2000]

This trend of drafting and developing players, then trading them just before they hit their stride.. has got to stop.

Cozens is going through a slump, so is Quinn.    It's 26 games into the season. 

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[Jorcus]

49 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Exactly. Its not just me, but I would say I probably have posted 10 or more game vizualization replays or actual replays and images where he either quits on plays...or is too tired that he can't get back..(which is still his fault for being on the ice too long).

Last year Krebs was the king of either being too slow to get back....or just quitting/not putting the effort into backchecking.  Krebs has gotten better this way...not Cozens....I have seen WAY to many times where Cozens is just gassed or does quit.  Mind you, he won't quit in the offensive zone...he'll charge into the corner to chase a puck in the offensize zone without a problem.  But he does not do that on the backcheck as often as many think....

As Jorcus said he isn't always the only one. Even Benson does it occasionally.  Krebs still has his moments..Thompson, Tuch...all of them do.  But I think Cozens does it a bit more than his reputation leads on.

I'm not down on Benson, but I think some of his play lately is being excused by his 'reputation' as a hard worker who usually does the right thing.  He's another one to keep an eye on, hopefully his play recently isn't a case of him picking up bad habits he didn't have before.

Personally, I would like any of the season ticket holders on this forum, or anybody who goes in person to games frequently, to chime in.  I know I have seen Cozens quit on plays but the only time I get to see replays of that is when there is a goal allowed.....Id be interested in some good feedback of anyone who might follow him in person at a game, shift to shift, play to play, in ways we can't see on Television.

 

I think I am a little mis quoted or misunderstood. I did not indicate Benson quitting on play. It was in reference to the goal on Saturday where Cozens became immobile, which I am pretty sure was due to time on ice. It was the goal where Benson was chasing the puck carrier around the zone. The internet looks at one play and instantly Cozens is now a quitter. Forget all the back checking Cozens does to cover other mistakes made on this team. A quitter would not bother. Cozens make plenty of mistakes. He gets tied up in the O zone he misses assignments but if he is not making a play it's because he physically can not at that moment. I would not tag him or most players on this team as quitters. At least not yet.  

[ska-T Palmtown]

3 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

This trend of drafting and developing players, then trading them just before they hit their stride.. has got to stop.

Cozens is going through a slump, so is Quinn.    It's 26 games into the season. 

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Yes. This. IF we had done a better rebuild and had a few more Zuckers zuckering around, some of these "kids" would have their fingers crossed they might play their 100th NHL game this year ... not 300th. I love the dude, but Benson would be playing his final year in the WHL if he was in a team with slightly above NHL talent AND execution.

Too lazy to verify, but I would wager a modest amount that Buffalo has more games played by [whatever age] by 1st and 2nd rounds not drafted in the top-3 overall than all but 3 teams, at most. And my suspicion is that those other teams are also kinda lousy right now.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Can you imagine trading away another “center” and getting a puck moving D in return.  I’m so excited.

[Jorcus]

I took the exercise of looking at every current second line center listed in the NHL per Daily Face Off. By the way Cozens is listed on the 3rd line wing so they must update this quickly. Just to indicate how tough this position is to fill Cozens has scored more goals than 16 other second line centers and is tied with 1 other. His points are lower than most, but he is also younger than most of them. There are 6 to 8 second line centers that a clearly better than him in scoring and talent, looking at scoring and NHL edge he is equal some and better than many. The shooting percentage holds him down the most. I will repeat it is a hard position to fill.