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What in the world happened to Jack Quinn?  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. What happened to Quinn?

    • Injuries have damaged his ability to play. Temporarily or Permanently
    • He's having his sophomore slump a year late due to his previous shortened season.
    • The Quinn we saw in both Year 1 and Year 2 was a mirage and he was never good to begin with.
    • Lindy Ruff's system has him perplexed and unable to function
    • Quinn can't handle Lindy versus Granato's style of critique/coaching/punishment
    • Other
  2. 2. Can Quinn find his way back?

    • Yes - he'll be a Top 6 Forward before you know it!
    • Yes - he'll be a Mid-6 Forward
    • Yes - but he'll never be a Top 6 player
    • No - He's damaged physically or mentally
    • No - The curtain has been moved to find the Wizard is just a man after all
    • No - Actual NHL coaching is too much for him to handle.
  3. 3. Can Quinn be salvaged?

    • Yes - Of course, he'll be back to a solid player by year's end regardless
    • Yes - He needs different linemates/a different coaching approach/other
    • Yes/No - He needs to be traded and as such the return will decide
    • No - He will never approach a Top 6 player again and we'll never trade him so he may as well be scrap metal
    • DOOM - He'll never play better here but anywhere else he'll be a Top 6 star


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Posted

The most baffling part of this season thus far is Jack Quinn's disappearance from this team. Most here weren't exactly overly concerned about Quinn's role in the Top 6 as much as well who was going to be the other winger on the 2nd line. However I can't recall anyone believing he'd go down like the Hindenburg in this role.

 

I know another thread exists in regard to Quinn however I wanted to poll the forum and you can't exactly make a poll within another thread. 

Posted

He is 23 years young. He’s also played 128 nhl games and registered 63 points. Is he salvageable? Is his nhl career reseurectable and is he able to be a 1000gp / 500 pts guy? For sure. It’s doable. Is it possible with the ***** show we have here? No. Given expectations and time frame I don’t think he lasts here more than 2 years. He wil flourish elsewhere though. He will have 10 more years at 40 points + in the nhl. 

Posted

Peyton Krebs had almost 200 games played and even though he wasn't that good, he was vigorously defended by many. 

Jack Quinn has 128 games and until the last 24 looked good. He lost confidence in himself and needs to reset. Jack Quinn will be fine. 

  • Like (+1) 4
  • Disagree 2
Posted (edited)

Somewhere along the way, the organization started telling players to shoot their way out of slumps instead of driving to the net and getting back on the board with a cheap one. 

Part of the issue is undoubtedly on him, whether it be preparedness, attitude, or mental acumen. You don’t get his stats unless something isn’t right in one of those departments. But success changes lots of things. Go to the net. Get some garbage goals. Things will turn around. 

Edited by #freejame
Posted
1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Peyton Krebs had almost 200 games played and even though he wasn't that good, he was vigorously defended by many. 

Jack Quinn has 128 games and until the last 24 looked good. He lost confidence in himself and needs to reset. Jack Quinn will be fine. 

Agreed. The drop off in his play is mystifying though. He has a long way to go, just to return to being the player he was, never-mind the play-driving, 40 goal, 80 point player some were projecting him as. 

Some fans asked for patience for Krebs, thinking he could still be a useful middle-six two way player.  I still think that is where he is headed, here or elsewhere. Nobody that I recall, has recently been projecting that  Krebs was a near to untouchable piece who was going to be the driving force of any chance the Sabres had of a turnaround. 

I still think Quinn can be a useful, middle-six player and that patience is warranted. His ceiling may still be higher. We likely should have moved him in a package for a top six player in the off-season. I don’t think he would be a meaningful add to such a trade currently. It’s a lesson I think that you have to be willing to trade a piece that hurts. 

  • Agree 1
Posted

Baffling.

Such a severe drop off is extreme.

I think he is able to get back to being a useful middle six winger but I need to lower my 30 goal expectation.

He has Pominville like talent, just not sure where his head is at right now.

Posted
11 hours ago, ASlugAbove said:

He is 23 years young. He’s also played 128 nhl games and registered 63 points. Is he salvageable? Is his nhl career reseurectable and is he able to be a 1000gp / 500 pts guy? For sure. It’s doable. Is it possible with the ***** show we have here? No. Given expectations and time frame I don’t think he lasts here more than 2 years. He wil flourish elsewhere though. He will have 10 more years at 40 points + in the nhl. 

23 years old.

Posted (edited)

Player development is not linear.  Most guys go up and down and it can depend on injuries, coaches, usage, linemates, puck luck etc.....

Quinn is a going to be a fine long-term NHL player but he needs a playmaker on his line just like Cozens.  

Edited by GASabresIUFAN
  • Disagree 2
Posted (edited)

I have no clue why. Similar linemates, seems to be healthier than in the past 2 years, yet dreadful play and its not a short term slump, we are almost 1/3 of the way through the season.

The ONLY thing I think of is Lindy.  Not that Lindy doesn't like him, nor does he not like Lindy. Just sometimes even a small change in style/coaching can impact players.  That is all I have.

But he went from being a nearly 13% shooter to basically Zero (only goal being empty net, hasn't beaten a goalie all year).  

There is one difference you can see from NHL edge shooting charts that doesn't make sense, especially if he is healthy. He is not going to the high danger areas or not taking shots from there.  Its almost like he is afraid of the front of the net like never before:

-This year through the entire year, he has 1, ONE shot from high danger areas (from the crease out, no farther out than the dots, between the dots).  Lets compare that to 2022-23, in 75 games he had 42.  

So  yeah, 2 years ago he went to the front of the net and took shots from there 42 times. If you project what he is doing this year, he is on pace for THREE shots per 75 games from the same area.

Is it he just isn't taking shots from there? or has he become totally allergic to being anywhere in front of the net?  In games where Quinn isn't with Cozens, the other wingers that are with Cozens are going to the net and getting shots, but not Quinn when he is there.  So, I get that he might do better with a different playmaking center, but why is he not even going to the net when Benson, Zucker, and Peterka are when playing with Cozens?

Its not the coaching. Cozens already has 18 this year. Tage has 10. Tuch has 18. Benson 12. Peterka 12.  But Quinn, again, just 1. Why?

Edited by mjd1001
Posted

Has anybody said...

oh, there it is.

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Jack Quinn will be fine. 

The troubling part is it probably just won't be in a Sabres uniform and selling now is selling at the absolute lowest value.

Posted (edited)

I just talked myself into looking at where he is shooting from even more.

 

Compare high danger chances shots on goal, (close, in front of the net) to perimeter shots with Quinn:

2022-23:  42 high danger, 84 perimeter (33.3% high danger, 66.7% outside)

2023-24: 12 high danger, 44 perimeter (21.4% high danger, 78.6% outside)

2024-25:  1 high danger, 41 perimeter (2.4% high danger, 97.6% outside)

Hes not going to the front of the net. And the few times that he does, hes not getting off shots on net...but he is still taking them from the perimeter.

For comparison, the rest of the Sabres this year, as a TEAM besides Quinn, are taking 23.5% high danger shots on goal, 76.5% outside, and that INCLUDES D-men who are usually taking more shots from outside/the point.

 

As a matter of fact, he is taking MORE perimeter shots then before:

2022-23:  Outside/perimeter shots on goal 1.12 per game

2023-24:  Outside/perimeter shots on goal 1.63 per game

2024-25: Outside/perimeter shots on goal 1.75 per game.

 

Again as per my other post, Cozens, nor the other wingers he plays with, have not had a significant drop-off in inside/high danger shots. Other lines (Tage, Tuch) are not having a big drop off in high danger shots with ratio to Perimeter shots. Its just Quinn.

Him going to the net and getting less shots from there and more from the outside started last year compared to his rookie year, but has drastically accelerated this year.

Each time he gets injured, is he just too afraid to go to the tight areas anymore? I didn't vote for that, but these numbers lead to that being a strong chance.

Edited by mjd1001
  • Like (+1) 1
Posted
15 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Kevin Adams and the Buffalo Sabres coaching and management.

Yes, I’d say the issue is less so Jack Quinn himself as it was the role and production he was being counted on for based on ~ one full-season’s worth of NHL games played 

Posted (edited)

Physically and Mentally Quinn looks lost.

TWhy is he almost invisible on the ice most nights he plays?  And why has he has such a drop off in his play around the net and him going to the net to get shots from the tough spots on the ice?

Other young players like Benson and Kulich are getting shots from there and going there. Tyson Kozak has more shots on goal from the front of the net in 2 games than Jack Quinn has all year.

Dylan Cozens, who Jack Quinn spends most of his time on the ice with is going to the net and taking shots from there.

Even Jack Quinn's hitting is down. From 4.4 hits per 60 last year to 2.19 this year. That is not his game, but to drop 50% is a lot.

He seems to be avoiding contact and areas of the ice where he may have contact, unlike no other player on this team including his own self from the last 2 years.  The Sabres say he started the year physically healthy, so it must be some kind of mental block he can't get by to do those things.

As we approach the 30 game mark of the season and he has played over 20 games himself, it is no longer a small sample size.

There are some fans, some posters here who same Jack Quinn will be fine.  I hope so.  But in light of not just the lack of pure production, but all the declining measurable. The declining secondary stats. The declining deep-dive analytics. With virtually nothing pointing to anything positive.  I would like to be reassured as to how or why he'll break out of this.

Edited by EM88
Posted
2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

I just talked myself into looking at where he is shooting from even more.

 

Compare high danger chances shots on goal, (close, in front of the net) to perimeter shots with Quinn:

2022-23:  42 high danger, 84 perimeter (33.3% high danger, 66.7% outside)

2023-24: 12 high danger, 44 perimeter (21.4% high danger, 78.6% outside)

2024-25:  1 high danger, 41 perimeter (2.4% high danger, 97.6% outside)

Hes not going to the front of the net. And the few times that he does, hes not getting off shots on net...but he is still taking them from the perimeter.

For comparison, the rest of the Sabres this year, as a TEAM besides Quinn, are taking 23.5% high danger shots on goal, 76.5% outside, and that INCLUDES D-men who are usually taking more shots from outside/the point.

 

As a matter of fact, he is taking MORE perimeter shots then before:

2022-23:  Outside/perimeter shots on goal 1.12 per game

2023-24:  Outside/perimeter shots on goal 1.63 per game

2024-25: Outside/perimeter shots on goal 1.75 per game.

 

Again as per my other post, Cozens, nor the other wingers he plays with, have not had a significant drop-off in inside/high danger shots. Other lines (Tage, Tuch) are not having a big drop off in high danger shots with ratio to Perimeter shots. Its just Quinn.

Him going to the net and getting less shots from there and more from the outside started last year compared to his rookie year, but has drastically accelerated this year.

Each time he gets injured, is he just too afraid to go to the tight areas anymore? I didn't vote for that, but these numbers lead to that being a strong chance.

 

How Quinn has scored goals in the past is either shooting from the dots or hanging on the side of the net. Just watched his Amerk highlights and his 22-23 Sabres season highlights. He just not a guy who has been setting screens and tipping on shots. He was good on the rush and can feed players that way. You have to wonder why the Peterka, Cozens, Quinn line was so good in 22-23 but not effective the times they were together this year. They may have been the 3rd line that year and faced less attention than they do as a second line. There is good hockey in those guys someplace.

 

 

 

Posted
On 12/8/2024 at 5:48 AM, French Collection said:

Baffling.

Such a severe drop off is extreme.

I think he is able to get back to being a useful middle six winger but I need to lower my 30 goal expectation.

He has Pominville like talent, just not sure where his head is at right now.

Pominville like talent without the drive

  • Like (+1) 1
Posted
On 12/8/2024 at 2:44 PM, DarthEbriate said:

Has anybody said...

oh, there it is.

The troubling part is it probably just won't be in a Sabres uniform and selling now is selling at the absolute lowest value.

Trading Sabres players now is like liquidating stocks after the market collapses. 

No idea what the deal is with Quinn. But i think several players have no motivation. Somehow they need to learn to play at the NHL level. 

How many first round talents are bombing in the Sabres right now? 

  • Like (+1) 1
Posted
On 12/8/2024 at 3:48 PM, mjd1001 said:

Each time he gets injured, is he just too afraid to go to the tight areas anymore? I didn't vote for that, but these numbers lead to that being a strong chance.

My bet.

Posted (edited)

Apparently, only a little over 50% of 8th overall picks ever score 100+ points in their career ...

image.thumb.png.5eaa670c1baf6c65207745f2af6a17e8.png

**Adding: this does not account for D-men who score at a lower rate and it is through 2023, so some kids might still be in juniors if they were not drafted by the Sabres.

Edited by ska-T Palmtown
moar context
  • Like (+1) 1
Posted
On 12/8/2024 at 2:04 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Player development is not linear.  Most guys go up and down and it can depend on injuries, coaches, usage, linemates, puck luck etc.....

Quinn is a going to be a fine long-term NHL player but he needs to playmaker on his line just like Cozens.  

We just don't know.  We don't know how hard he practices, we don't know how hard he works in the off season.  We don't if the injury is still there or still in his head. 

Could be a slump, sophomore jinx, or it could be he doesn't have any more than what we saw.  He did look like a smart and skilled young winger at one time so maybe he comes back to that? 

Right now he is hurting the team and they are better off playing Kulich.  

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Agree 2
Posted
2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Right now he is hurting the team and they are better off playing Kulich.  

The season is over now anyway as Adams and Pegula won’t or can’t make the necessary changes.  Who cares who they play?  
 

As to Quinn, the track record of young players who produced as his record setting pace at his age in the AHL is a very successful list.  He Will bounce back successfully in the NHL.  

 

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