Roster question?

[mjd1001]

Beating the already-been-dead-for-awhile horse here, but some serious questions:

-Why hasn't Quinn been in Rochester for a while now?  Can he be sent down or not?  He has not scored a goal by beating a goalie all year, is making dumb defensive plays and brings nothing to the team at all.

-Why has Lindy not demoted Cozens?  Why does he lead the team in Powerplay minutes this year for forwards when he has a total of 4 power play goals combined this year and last and is shooting 8.8%?  Why does he keep getting top minutes overall, when he was a minus player on a plus team last year....and is the worst plus-minus this year next to the above mentioned Quinn? He only scored in the teens in goals last year and is on pace for the teens this year (WITH high offensive zone start percentages and  a lot of power play time), and even the most simple of eye test shows he is either a turnover machine or makes dumb plays without the puck that lead to turnovers or scoring chances against?  Why is he not 100% off the powerplay (put Mcleod in there he can't be worse) and why is he not getting 3rd line even strength minutes at most?

With Cozens, he can have an awful game both offensively and Defensively, yet Granato didn't pull him back, and now Ruff doesn't pull him back.  How do both of those coaches not bench him for a game or two or reduce his role, even for a game or two?

I know many of us have talked about the above points over and over, but does anyone have a legit reason(s) why to the above?

 

[EM88]

Just now, mjd1001 said:

With Cozens, he can have an awful game both offensively and Defensively, yet Granato didn't pull him back, and now Ruff doesn't pull him back.  How do both of those coaches not bench him for a game or two or reduce his role, even for a game or two?

Maybe it comes from above?  Pegula or Adams, or both, Really like Cozens and want to see him put out there all the time.

[pastajoe]

Quinn can’t go down without being waived, unless it’s for conditioning reasons.  Cozens makes too much money to be demoted, it would further embarrass Adams for the huge contract he gave him.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Cozens is not waivers exempt.  He can’t be sent down without clearing waivers snd would be claimed immediately. 

Quinn is probably nor waivers exempt either.  

The only way these guys can go down is on rehab assignments.

[mjd1001]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Cozens is not waivers exempt.  He can’t be sent down without clearing waivers snd would be claimed immediately. 

Quinn is probably nor waivers exempt either.  

The only way these guys can go down is on rehab assignments.

I'm not say send Cozens to Rochester, I meant demote him on the roster.  Get him off the Power Play, have him play a couple less minutes per game even strength than he does now.

[LGR4GM]

Neither Quinn nor Cozens are waiver exempt. Neither can be sent to Rochester unless on conditioning assignments or by passing through waivers. 

Cozens should be Demoted off the 2nd line. He's a Pegula favorite so doubt it happens. 

[EM88]

With Quinn have not we been told that he is fully physically healthy? If that is the case then what is the risk of exposing him to waivers or a trade? Are there any other options you can do with him other than having him benched and not playing hockey?  I know you don't want to give up on a top 10 pick, but he is hurting this team.

Its not just this year, his career numbers equate to a 16 goal guy with 24 assists per 82. He is starting to get an injury history. He has regressed from those numbers. He isn't a playmaker. He isn't physical. He seems to be the 2nd worst forward on this team in terms of making away from the puck mistakes next to only Dylan Cozens. 

I do not have any ideas, the team is limited with options. But at this point putting him out there game after game isn't good, and benching him and making him sit in the pressbox doesn't help him get better either.

I really think Pegula is a huge fan of Cozens.  I think taking him out of the lineup or demoting him would not sit well with the King above.

Edited December 7 by EM88

[LGR4GM]

22 minutes ago, EM88 said:

With Quinn have not we been told that he is fully physically healthy? If that is the case then what is the risk of exposing him to waivers or a trade? Are there any other options you can do with him other than having him benched and not playing hockey?  I know you don't want to give up on a top 10 pick, but he is hurting this team.

Its not just this year, his career numbers equate to a 16 goal guy with 24 assists per 82. He is starting to get an injury history. He has regressed from those numbers. He isn't a playmaker. He isn't physical. He seems to be the 2nd worst forward on this team in terms of making away from the puck mistakes next to only Dylan Cozens. 

I do not have any ideas, the team is limited with options. But at this point putting him out there game after game isn't good, and benching him and making him sit in the pressbox doesn't help him get better either.

I really think Pegula is a huge fan of Cozens.  I think taking him out of the lineup or demoting him would not sit well with the King above.

I think waiving jack quinn would be a massive mistake. 

[Mr Peabody]

Quinn is on a cheap contract so would be picked up by a contending team, surrounded by veterans, and thus would likely hoist the cup. 

[EM88]

12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think waiving jack quinn would be a massive mistake. 

It might be, probably would be. But keeping him in the lineup, at the moment, is hurting this team.  I'm not sure what the answer is other than, He plays despite being a liability without the puck and not scoring.

[Ctaeth]

49 minutes ago, EM88 said:

With Quinn have not we been told that he is fully physically healthy? If that is the case then what is the risk of exposing him to waivers or a trade? Are there any other options you can do with him other than having him benched and not playing hockey?  I know you don't want to give up on a top 10 pick, but he is hurting this team.

Its not just this year, his career numbers equate to a 16 goal guy with 24 assists per 82. He is starting to get an injury history. He has regressed from those numbers. He isn't a playmaker. He isn't physical. He seems to be the 2nd worst forward on this team in terms of making away from the puck mistakes next to only Dylan Cozens. 

I do not have any ideas, the team is limited with options. But at this point putting him out there game after game isn't good, and benching him and making him sit in the pressbox doesn't help him get better either.

I really think Pegula is a huge fan of Cozens.  I think taking him out of the lineup or demoting him would not sit well with the King above.

If he sits long enough, won't he be eligible for a conditioning stint in Rochester?

[Archie Lee]

59 minutes ago, Mr Peabody said:

Quinn is on a cheap contract so would be picked up by a contending team, surrounded by veterans, and thus would likely hoist the cup. 

Quinn would be claimed by the Chicago Blackhawks, the league's worst team who have 1st waiver priority I think.  There is zero risk to claiming a player like Quinn.  HE won't, and definitely should not be waived.  

It should be noted, in some fairness to Adams, Ruff, etc., that Quinn's drop-off has been monumental.  I was very skeptical of the view that some held that Quinn was on the verge of establishing himself as one of the best wingers in the league.  I never imagined though, that a healthy Quinn would be less than a 15-20 goal, 40-45 point, middle-six winger, who would give us solid play at both ends of the ice. There was no predicting the level of drop off in his game that has occurred. I think he will bounce back, but the situation is concerning.  

For what it is worth, the same can also be said to a lesser degree about Cozens and to an even lesser degree about Benson (who was expected to take a step forward and at best is treading water with where he was a year ago, and has perhaps regressed a bit). Their performances have been worse than what reasonable people would have predicted.

Granato paid the price for similar performance regressions in Cozens, Thompson, Tuch and Dahlin a year ago. 

 

[HILLsabre]

Both Cozens and Quinn have not been the same players following long term injuries. Even though they're playing, definitely could be follow up issues..physical, mental, or both!!🙄

[ska-T Palmtown]

48 minutes ago, HILLsabre said:

Both Cozens and Quinn have not been the same players following long term injuries. Even though they're playing, definitely could be follow up issues..physical, mental, or both!!🙄

This has been discussed so many times and at least in the case of Quinn is totally not true. In two stints where he came back last year, he was outpacing his rookie year. Both. Times. This has zero to do with his injuries.

I believe it was @mjd1001, our resident Cozens scholar, that pointed out that Dear Mr. Cozens was playing like shite last year before he got his face caved in. 

Both injuries are strawmen that avoid talking about why these two players cannot seem to remove their heads from their rectums (rectum? damn near killed 'im!) in a system that is more than just pond hockey. 

It is also funny because Sabres fans tend to think Quinn is unique. High draft pick players fail to become impact player A LOT ... or take a while. That dude on the Rags, La Fran Yayr - no clue how to spell it - he was borderline awful his first 2-3 years. Then it clicked. Shane Wright on Seattle. This was the kid that was given "exceptional status" to play as an underager in juniors. He was talked about as a potential #1 pick ... he has like 4 points this year. Slafkovsky - #1 overall pick - 74 points in 144 games that is a 40 point pace for a full season.

I don't think any of those players are bad or busts or whatever, but they are not McJesus or Crosby or MacKinnon ... they are regular NHL players. 🤷‍♂️

[Jorcus]

5 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Beating the already-been-dead-for-awhile horse here, but some serious questions:

-Why hasn't Quinn been in Rochester for a while now?  Can he be sent down or not?  He has not scored a goal by beating a goalie all year, is making dumb defensive plays and brings nothing to the team at all.

-Why has Lindy not demoted Cozens?  Why does he lead the team in Powerplay minutes this year for forwards when he has a total of 4 power play goals combined this year and last and is shooting 8.8%?  Why does he keep getting top minutes overall, when he was a minus player on a plus team last year....and is the worst plus-minus this year next to the above mentioned Quinn? He only scored in the teens in goals last year and is on pace for the teens this year (WITH high offensive zone start percentages and  a lot of power play time), and even the most simple of eye test shows he is either a turnover machine or makes dumb plays without the puck that lead to turnovers or scoring chances against?  Why is he not 100% off the powerplay (put Mcleod in there he can't be worse) and why is he not getting 3rd line even strength minutes at most?

With Cozens, he can have an awful game both offensively and Defensively, yet Granato didn't pull him back, and now Ruff doesn't pull him back.  How do both of those coaches not bench him for a game or two or reduce his role, even for a game or two?

I know many of us have talked about the above points over and over, but does anyone have a legit reason(s) why to the above?

 

 

In Quinn's case it is logistical. At the beginning of the year they put together a roster where only 1 player could realistically be moved down and that was Levi. You can try to have him work through his problems or find a trade of disappointments, where he gets swapped for another guy who was supposed to be good but is not performing.  

You ask why coaches like Cozens? Adams kind of answered it when he said player development is not linear. They have ups and downs and they feel Cozens has an upside in him. I tend to think they are right on Cozens. You have often pointed out defensive lapses and positional issues that plague his game. Those are things that can be fixed. Cozens brings a lot of raw talent to the table. Go look at his skating and shoot speed on NHL edge. He is not quite where Thompson is but other than the goal percentage his metrics are good. Now go look at Quinn. Those metrics have never been very good. His skating is marginal and his shot speed is pretty weak. Cozens plays all situations and is an aggressive player. coaches like that. I don't thinks he is helping the power play at all but it doesn't mean he isn't out there trying hard most nights and most shifts. This year he has had almost no stability of who is on his wings and he is normally the oldest guy on the line. He needs a Tuch like player to play with to help his playmaking. He is starting to gel with Benson but with Peterka on the other wing you don't have a lot of size to help fight off the defensemen that is not a good line to have in the D zone.

Benson also does not have good skating or shot speed metrics on NHL edge. Unlike Quinn he makes the most of what he does have. He has a lot of hustle in his game and often finds the right places to be. He is good along the walls, he steals pucks and sneaks his way into the front of the net. Cozens fights his way to the front of the net. I think the one thing that would help Cozens is to not to get caught up in physical engagements in the O zone as often as he does. He gets into wrestling matches that tie him up when the puck goes back the other way. At any rate Cozens is a much harder player to replace.        

[Second Line Center]

I love the guy this just makes me sad what’s happened to him.  
 

I just think the losing is sucking the life out of them.  

 

 

Edited December 8 by Second Line Center

[inkman]

4 minutes ago, Second Line Center said:

I love the guy this just makes me sad what’s happened to him.  
 

I just think the losing is sucking the life out of them.  

 

 

No question.  That’s why they gotta this roster up.   

[PerreaultForever]

We are exactly where we were when Adams took over. Remember losing had sucked the life out of that group as well and they had to go and most of them did. So are we doing it again? I told you it was fragile, and now it might be broke. 

[SabreFinn]

40 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

We are exactly where we were when Adams took over. Remember losing had sucked the life out of that group as well and they had to go and most of them did. So are we doing it again? I told you it was fragile, and now it might be broke. 

I think you are absolutely right, this is what has happened.

[Weave]

I am surprised noone brought up this beauty from a post practice Lindy interview.

 

Reported by Matthew Fairburn;

”Sabres coach Lindy Ruff clearly wants more from his top six. 

"Our centerman inside this system has a lot of work to do ... I've asked those guys personally, if this is too hard, I'll put you on the wing. You'll play the wing. That's for Dylan (Cozens), that's for Tage."”

[LabattBlue]

4 minutes ago, Weave said:

Sabres coach Lindy Ruff clearly wants more from his top six. 

"Our centerman inside this system has a lot of work to do ... I've asked those guys personally, if this is too hard, I'll put you on the wing. You'll play the wing. That's for Dylan (Cozens), that's for Tage."

Boom goes the dynamite.  🧨 🧨🧨
 

Go Lindy Go!!!!

[ska-T Palmtown]

18 minutes ago, Weave said:

I am surprised noone brought up this beauty from a post practice Lindy interview.

 

Reported by Matthew Fairburn;

”Sabres coach Lindy Ruff clearly wants more from his top six. 

"Our centerman inside this system has a lot of work to do ... I've asked those guys personally, if this is too hard, I'll put you on the wing. You'll play the wing. That's for Dylan (Cozens), that's for Tage."”

no one brought it up, because if we DO get accountability and standards are upheld, but results don't change ... the ugly truth is too hard to handle.

[SwampD]

On 12/8/2024 at 12:09 AM, Second Line Center said:

I love the guy this just makes me sad what’s happened to him.  
 

I just think the losing is sucking the life out of them.  

 

 

Dylan’s problem is that he has stopped skating everywhere on the ice. He gets the puck and coasts into the offensive zone, waiting for something to open up, instead of hustling and forcing something to open up. It’s absolutely awful to watch. I don’t know what happened to him.

And he’s not alone.

Edited December 11 by SwampD

[PerreaultForever]

On 12/9/2024 at 1:02 PM, Weave said:

I am surprised noone brought up this beauty from a post practice Lindy interview.

 

Reported by Matthew Fairburn;

”Sabres coach Lindy Ruff clearly wants more from his top six. 

"Our centerman inside this system has a lot of work to do ... I've asked those guys personally, if this is too hard, I'll put you on the wing. You'll play the wing. That's for Dylan (Cozens), that's for Tage."”

This is good to hear, but it would leave the question as to who plays center? We're left with McLeod who is really a 3C as top center. That's not going to work either. 

(which also  takes us back to Adams trading away Mitts)

[Kristian]

On 12/7/2024 at 10:48 PM, mjd1001 said:

Beating the already-been-dead-for-awhile horse here, but some serious questions:

-Why hasn't Quinn been in Rochester for a while now?  Can he be sent down or not?  He has not scored a goal by beating a goalie all year, is making dumb defensive plays and brings nothing to the team at all.

-Why has Lindy not demoted Cozens?  Why does he lead the team in Powerplay minutes this year for forwards when he has a total of 4 power play goals combined this year and last and is shooting 8.8%?  Why does he keep getting top minutes overall, when he was a minus player on a plus team last year....and is the worst plus-minus this year next to the above mentioned Quinn? He only scored in the teens in goals last year and is on pace for the teens this year (WITH high offensive zone start percentages and  a lot of power play time), and even the most simple of eye test shows he is either a turnover machine or makes dumb plays without the puck that lead to turnovers or scoring chances against?  Why is he not 100% off the powerplay (put Mcleod in there he can't be worse) and why is he not getting 3rd line even strength minutes at most?

With Cozens, he can have an awful game both offensively and Defensively, yet Granato didn't pull him back, and now Ruff doesn't pull him back.  How do both of those coaches not bench him for a game or two or reduce his role, even for a game or two?

I know many of us have talked about the above points over and over, but does anyone have a legit reason(s) why to the above?

 

I’m starting to think TP decides who the top-6 are.