Hockey Heaven!

[DarthEbriate]

But Darth Pegulas the Wise and GM Sheevyn want to be here.

Unlike Eichel, Reinhart (top 10 in scoring in the league in scoring), Montour (16th among D), Ullmark, and many, many others.

[phil_soisson]

Curious how Pegula seems to have gotten the Bills right (with essentially the same fanbase as the Sabres), while having owned the Sabres several years longer.

[Archie Lee]

I don’t have the heart or stomach for hoping or wanting anyone to be fired, cut, demoted, traded. I’m neither cynical nor naive. When pro sports teams fail, someone eventually pays the price. I don’t doubt that Pegula has some motivations beyond putting the best team on the ice, but I don’t for a minute think he wants to, or is even remotely ok with, subjecting fans to this. Adams has done things his way. He will likely not survive this with his job. I still think that the projected positive impact of Lindy Ruff was the greatest off-season canard. If I had to turn this over to anyone within the hierarchy it would be Karmanos, but I have no idea how that would turn out. 

I do believe that there are inflection points where a team can go in the right or wrong direction. After the 22-23 season Adams came to two roads diverged in the yellow-wood. In pro sports, there is lots of history and evidence to support what the best path to success is. For some reason Adams chose the road not taken and opted against providing veteran support to his youthful team that had missed the playoffs by a single point. That decision, in my opinion, set the team back both in performance and culture. He simultaneously passed on an opportunity to utilize a window of time to upgrade the talent and experience level of the team, while also sending the returning young players the message that winning was only a stretch-target; great if it happens, but not yet the organization’s top priority. That has made all the difference.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

54 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Selling the team means moving the team as well…..which may seem like the lesser of the evils after last night’s embarrassment.

I do not even live in Buffalo anymore. If they move, i will still follow them. If that's what it takes to make them better, i am totally ok with that

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Terry you have driven this franchise into the ground.  Do yourself and the city and the fans a favor fire your Yes-Man Adams and sell the team.   Give a willing owner the chance to hire competent management to fix this team.  There is actually enough here to build from, but you and Adams are not the men for the job.

The sad thing is that there is a core of something that could work, but the team is so mismanaged and the roster so poorly constructed the puzzle pieces will never work without a fresh look

This is what we really have 

????? Tage Tuch

Benson ????? JJP

Quinn ?????  Greenway

?????? McLeod ??????  

 

Dahlin  ??????

Byram ??????

??????  ?????

 

UPL

??????

To make this work Power, Cozens, Byrson, Joki, Krebs, Samuelsson, and Clifton all need to go.  I like Zucker and I'd keep him until the deadline, trade him and then bring him back on another one year smaller deal.  We need two playmakers hopefully at center.  We need partners with a bent toward defensive play for Dahlin and Byram.  We also need our D to be tougher and more physical.  

It looks like we can’t win with Dahlin, Power, Thompson and Cozens as the Core. The other guys are just filler.  The core cannot get us there.  

You wanna fix it, change the core and that changes the culture.  

[John Tucker]

7 minutes ago, phil_soisson said:

Curious how Pegula seems to have gotten the Bills right (with essentially the same fanbase as the Sabres), while having owned the Sabres several years longer.

Every squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.  Pegula lucked out with the Beane/McDermott hires.  I go back to the Lafontaine fiasco.  Something felt fishy about his departure back then and it should've been a red flag right from the start.  I really think that Lafontaine would've been a great team president, overseeing the hockey department.  Pegula gets his hockey ignorant hands on too many decisions.

[DarthEbriate]

10 minutes ago, phil_soisson said:

Curious how Pegula seems to have gotten the Bills right (with essentially the same fanbase as the Sabres), while having owned the Sabres several years longer.

An MVP-caliber QB will do that for you. Replace Josh Allen with...   the NY Jets running string of QBs since Allen was drafted...  and they're a talented roster that's maxing out at 7 wins.

That has nothing to do with the owner.

[EM88]

32 minutes ago, phil_soisson said:

Curious how Pegula seems to have gotten the Bills right (with essentially the same fanbase as the Sabres), while having owned the Sabres several years longer.

He lucked into a coach/GM combo, through no skill of his own.

Remember the Rex Ryan fiasco? Obviously he wasn't a good coach for the team, but it was the Pegula's who wanted him after talking to him in person a few times. That wasn't a hire that 'football people' suggested to him.  Pegula (or the Pegulas), seem to run their teams like fans, but not even well educated fans, they run their team like 14-year-old boy fans.

Also, getting one of the top 5 players in the league helps.  Take Josh Allen off the Bills and they are a middling team probably not making the playoffs, just like the Sabres. On the other side, add one of the top 5 players in the NHL to the Sabres (McDavid, Matthews, Kucheroff, McKinnon) and they are likely a much better team.

-I have always thought in Football, the game is more complex and there are more 'layers' between the owner and the roster. Roster construction is more complex. Ther are more players to choose and contribute to the roster, and there are more bodies between the players and the owner.   In the NHL, when your roster is basically 15-20 important pieces, and maybe 2-3 of your top 20 pieces change out each year, an owner who wants to be involved can have a MUCH greater impact.  In the NFL, you have 40 important pieces, and many more of those change out each year. An owner who spends 20 hours a month in personal meetings or sitting next to and talking to the GM is simply going to have less of an impact on the roster and staff. There are too many people and not enough time to mess things up.  In hockey, smaller rosters, smaller coaching staffs, making it simply a lot easier for a bad owner to mess things up more quickly.

Edited December 4 by EM88

[Crusader1969]

40 minutes ago, phil_soisson said:

Curious how Pegula seems to have gotten the Bills right (with essentially the same fanbase as the Sabres), while having owned the Sabres several years longer.

Josh Allen.

if Sabres won the McDavid lottery, maybe they would have gotten just as lucky 

[Crusader1969]

The "Sell the Team" campaign needs to start

need someone with influence to take charge , whomever that is.  
 

I can actually see Terry crumbling to a fan revolt.    
 

however, I doubt we (the fans) have the energy or the passion to put that kind od pressure on him.   I know I don't.   Ive fallen into the "don't care" category 

 

[DarthEbriate]

8 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

Josh Allen.

if Sabres won the McDavid lottery, maybe they would have gotten just as lucky 

Definitely a possibility. McDavid-Reinhart instead of McDavid-Draisaitl. Maybe name Okposo or ROR the captain instead of McDavid. The Sabres probably run through fewer coaches (probably the same number of GMs, based on why GMTM and GMJBott were let go).

[Carmel Corn]

11 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

The "Sell the Team" campaign needs to start

need someone with influence to take charge , whomever that is.  
 

I can actually see Terry crumbling to a fan revolt.    
 

however, I doubt we (the fans) have the energy or the passion to put that kind od pressure on him.   I know I don't.   Ive fallen into the "don't care" category 

 

Interesting….IMHO, Pegula is not somebody who would crumble.  I instead see him as a silent, but vindictive SOB who will look to sell and MOVE the team at a hefty profit to pay for his stadium overrun.  I don’t think he cares about the Sabre fans and is enough of an a$$hole to move this NHL franchise out of Buffalo to help his bottom line.

[mjd1001]

2 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Interesting….IMHO, Pegula is not somebody who would crumble.  I instead see him as a silent, but vindictive SOB who will look to sell and MOVE the team at a hefty profit to pay for his stadium overrun.  I don’t think he cares about the Sabre fans and is enough of an a$$hole to move this NHL franchise out of Buffalo to help his bottom line.

That is the impression I have of him.

When things get back, hide behind a coach, a GM, a president of the team and get away from the criticism. And if that criticism becomes to great, I picture him as the kind of guy who sits in the back room and things/says "I'll show them ALL".  Not the kind of guy that will take criticism, not the type of guy who will step up into a tough situation. In corporate terms, he is much more of a "BOSS" than he is a "LEADER" of an organization.

[Crusader1969]

16 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

Interesting….IMHO, Pegula is not somebody who would crumble.  I instead see him as a silent, but vindictive SOB who will look to sell and MOVE the team at a hefty profit to pay for his stadium overrun.  I don’t think he cares about the Sabre fans and is enough of an a$$hole to move this NHL franchise out of Buffalo to help his bottom line.

I've said it before but a sell and move might be the best solution 

with the promise by the league to give Buffalo an expansion franchise within the next decade 

think fresh start might be the only way to go for them 

[mjd1001]

Just now, Crusader1969 said:

I've said it before but a sell and move might be the best solution 

with the promise by the league to give Buffalo an expansion franchise within the next decade 

think fresh start might be the only way to go for them 

I don't think that would happen, that is the problem.

For better or worse, the league was falling over itself to keep a team in the phoenix market. They don't care at all about a passionate fanbase in a small city (if they did Quebec city, with a much nicer/newer Arena than Buffalo, would have a team "back there" already).

The league cares about market sizes like Houston (closing in on 8 millon), Atlanta or Phoenix (5+ million and growing),  Austin, Orlando, Charlotte, San Antonio, Austin San Diego and others (2.5-3+ million) more than they do about Buffalo (Metro size 1.1million)...and it looks at Money (most of those markets have an area "GDP" of 3-6 times what Buffalo has).

If Buffalo did lose the Sabres, in no way, in no world do I see them moving in front of Atlanta, Houston, Phoenix, or a 2nd GTA team. No way.

 

[EM88]

11 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Terry you have driven this franchise into the ground.  Do yourself and the city and the fans a favor fire your Yes-Man Adams and sell the team.   Give a willing owner the chance to hire competent management to fix this team.  There is actually enough here to build from, but you and Adams are not the men for the job.

The sad thing is that there is a core of something that could work, but the team is so mismanaged and the roster so poorly constructed the puzzle pieces will never work without a fresh look

This is what we really have 

????? Tage Tuch

Benson ????? JJP

Quinn ?????  Greenway

?????? McLeod ??????  

 

Dahlin  ??????

Byram ??????

??????  ?????

 

UPL

??????

To make this work Power, Cozens, Byrson, Joki, Krebs, Samuelsson, and Clifton all need to go.  I like Zucker and I'd keep him until the deadline, trade him and then bring him back on another one year smaller deal.  We need two playmakers hopefully at center.  We need partners with a bent toward defensive play for Dahlin and Byram.  We also need our D to be tougher and more physical.  

I cannot see Quinn being here long term unless he transforms into a totally different player. He is producing like a bad 4th liner and brings nothing to the team in terms of skating or physicality right now either.  In addition, he is starting to make more obvious mistakes defensively, rivaling Cozens for lack of hockey sense without the puck.

Bryson I'm good with as your 'spare' 7th or 8th guy. Krebs also has taken a step forward to me.  Clifton I think is playing well for a 3rd pair guy.  Power I can go either way on depending on the game.

[Cranky old man]

I’m sorry, did Pegs blow a four goal lead last night? 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, EM88 said:

He lucked into a coach/GM combo, through no skill of his own.

Remember the Rex Ryan fiasco? Obviously he wasn't a good coach for the team, but it was the Pegula's who wanted him after talking to him in person a few times. That wasn't a hire that 'football people' suggested to him.  Pegula (or the Pegulas), seem to run their teams like fans, but not even well educated fans, they run their team like 14-year-old boy fans.

Also, getting one of the top 5 players in the league helps.  Take Josh Allen off the Bills and they are a middling team probably not making the playoffs, just like the Sabres. On the other side, add one of the top 5 players in the NHL to the Sabres (McDavid, Matthews, Kucheroff, McKinnon) and they are likely a much better team.

-I have always thought in Football, the game is more complex and there are more 'layers' between the owner and the roster. Roster construction is more complex. Ther are more players to choose and contribute to the roster, and there are more bodies between the players and the owner.   In the NHL, when your roster is basically 15-20 important pieces, and maybe 2-3 of your top 20 pieces change out each year, an owner who wants to be involved can have a MUCH greater impact.  In the NFL, you have 40 important pieces, and many more of those change out each year. An owner who spends 20 hours a month in personal meetings or sitting next to and talking to the GM is simply going to have less of an impact on the roster and staff. There are too many people and not enough time to mess things up.  In hockey, smaller rosters, smaller coaching staffs, making it simply a lot easier for a bad owner to mess things up more quickly.

Actually Club President Russ Brandon played a big part in hiring Rex.  He infamously advised the Pegula's "don't let him get out of the building".  

McDermott was the the NFL's list of top head coaching candidates at the time.  

The Pegula's don't know who to listen too.   Hiring McDermott was based on their interview with him, and then listening to his recommendation on Beane, was as much luck as anything else.  But at least they did it without listening to someone with limited or dubious qualifications. 

In the hockey world they have no clue were to turn - and they had guys like Dudley and Ruff in their backyard for entire time.   

[DarthEbriate]

57 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I don't think that would happen, that is the problem.

For better or worse, the league was falling over itself to keep a team in the phoenix market. They don't care at all about a passionate fanbase in a small city (if they did Quebec city, with a much nicer/newer Arena than Buffalo, would have a team "back there" already).

The league cares about market sizes like Houston (closing in on 8 millon), Atlanta or Phoenix (5+ million and growing),  Austin, Orlando, Charlotte, San Antonio, Austin San Diego and others (2.5-3+ million) more than they do about Buffalo (Metro size 1.1million)...and it looks at Money (most of those markets have an area "GDP" of 3-6 times what Buffalo has).

If Buffalo did lose the Sabres, in no way, in no world do I see them moving in front of Atlanta, Houston, Phoenix, or a 2nd GTA team. No way.

They would be behind large US metro areas in an expansion.

But, the NHL will want to keep the US hockey-mad market of Buffalo/Western NY and most importantly, a team for any non-Leaf person in Southern Ontario. The Leafs won't let a team in Hamilton, but they can't keep a nearby team out of the nearby US market. One of the best things for the league would be a strong Toronto-Buffalo connection to appeal to any Leaf-haters amid the 13 million people in Southern Ontario.

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said:

They would be behind large US metro areas in an expansion.

But, the NHL will want to keep the US hockey-mad market of Buffalo/Western NY and most importantly, a team for any non-Leaf person in Southern Ontario. The Leafs won't let a team in Hamilton, but they can't keep a nearby team out of the nearby US market. One of the best things for the league would be a strong Toronto-Buffalo connection to appeal to any Leaf-haters amid the 13 million people in Southern Ontario.

We already know that a competitive team in Buffalo, with a few legit NHL stars, equals sell out every night and a passionate venue.  

[mjd1001]

5 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

They would be behind large US metro areas in an expansion.

But, the NHL will want to keep the US hockey-mad market of Buffalo/Western NY and most importantly, a team for any non-Leaf person in Southern Ontario. The Leafs won't let a team in Hamilton, but they can't keep a nearby team out of the nearby US market. One of the best things for the league would be a strong Toronto-Buffalo connection to appeal to any Leaf-haters amid the 13 million people in Southern Ontario.

Maybe.

The problem is you need an OWNER who also wants a team in Buffalo.

If the NHL approves someone new to be an owner, they are going to want someone pretty 'rich' that likes and wants to make money for themself and the other owners.

How does Buffalo get a team 'back' when that would likely be in a 30+ year old arena that needs a lot of work, in a city with so many less people and money....versus other massive cities with a ton more money, that probably would be willing to help build a brand new, state of the art arena that simply could not be done in Buffalo (especially with the region and state just giving money to a new stadium for the Bills).

Even IF the league wanted a team in Buffalo even more than those other cities (not sure I think that is the case but even if it was true), what multi-Billionaire is going to step forward and choose Buffalo (and the Arena here) as the place they will make even more money vs those other cities?

[Thorner]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

But Darth Pegulas the Wise and GM Sheevyn want to be here.

Unlike Eichel, Reinhart (top 10 in scoring in the league in scoring), Montour (16th among D), Ullmark, and many, many others.

Had any franchise ever traded *all* the good players to walk through their door? 

Unlikely? 

well, I wanna be the first one to trade em all! 

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Cranky old man said:

I’m sorry, did Pegs blow a four goal lead last night? 

Yes, he suited up in goal after UPL got hurt 

[DarthEbriate]

2 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Had any franchise ever traded *all* the good players to walk through their door? 

Unlikely? 

well, I wanna be the first one to trade em all! 

You've got the midichlorian count to do it.

As I once said about Jackikin Eichwalker, "His Aerobic Fitness is off the charts. No skater has a VO2 max that high."

4 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Had any franchise ever traded *all* the good players to walk through their door? 

Unlikely? 

well, I wanna be the first one to trade em all! 

Usually you break up a star roster after you win the Cup. Or at least a lengthy ride at the top of the Conference (San Jose style).

[Thorner]

2 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

You've got the midichlorian count to do it.

As I once said about Jackikin Eichwalker, "His Aerobic Fitness is off the charts. No skater has a VO2 max that high."

Not even master Yandle