Hockey Heaven!

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

The problem is though that Pegula is going to expect the Adams relationship with any new GM. Does Karmanos want to be on the phone with Pegula several times every day listening to Terry’s ideas and updating him on every thing he is doing.

It comes down to Terry backing the F off and letting a qualified person come in and have the room to breathe and do the job.

Terry is the owner. He's going to do whatever he wants to do. That's the reality that no one other than he, himself, can change. The starting point is to get someone more qualified sitting in the GM's chair. 

[Flashsabre]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Terry is the owner. He's going to do whatever he wants to do. That's the reality that no one other than he, himself, can change. The starting point is to get someone more qualified sitting in the GM's chair. 

I agree with you but with Terry’s reputation I’m worried if anyone more qualified wants to walk into that situation. That my point.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Why do you think that Karmanos would decline the position? It would be a terrific opportunity for him. This team is not bereft of talent. A few wise tweaks that would better balance out the roster is attainable by someone who knows what they are doing. The margin between success and failure is not that great. It can be achieved by someone who is better equipped to handle the duties of the GM than the current GM. 

I don’t think Karmanos would turn it down, but there are circumstances where it’s possible.   His name comes up as a potential candidate to be a GM.  

In terms of trying to trade for vets, I do think Adams knows what they need and who can help.  He was recently linked to pursing guys like Necas, Euhlers, Pesce.   All good players.  Imagine Necas in our top 6.  Image Pesce playing with Power and showing him the side of the game he never had to concentrate on when coming up.   

Why Adams can’t or won’t seal the deal is the question. We know the NMC thing is real.   

[HumanSlinky39]

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

8 loses in a row and it's all quiet in Sabres land.  Thought I'd look at twitter in the late afternoon and see some type of move by the team.    Crickets 

Infuriating.

[JohnC]

51 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I don’t think Karmanos would turn it down, but there are circumstances where it’s possible.   His name comes up as a potential candidate to be a GM.  

In terms of trying to trade for vets, I do think Adams knows what they need and who can help.  He was recently linked to pursing guys like Necas, Euhlers, Pesce.   All good players.  Imagine Necas in our top 6.  Image Pesce playing with Power and showing him the side of the game he never had to concentrate on when coming up.   

Why Adams can’t or won’t seal the deal is the question. We know the NMC thing is real.   

The NMC is certainly real as it applies to Buffalo. That's not debatable. The clueless owner allowed his franchise to descend into irrelevancy due to its systemic dysfunction. Players at the NHL level are intensely competitive people. They want a realistic chance to win. A generation of futility is an astounding ignominious accomplishment. It's gotten so bad that it's as much of a challenge to retain your best players as it is to seek outside talent. The franchise's skunk stench of the Pegula stewardship has so permeated this franchise that few players want to be tainted. And I don't blame them. 

Mitts was traded for Byram. What happens if Byram decides that he doesn't want to sign a contract here, preferring to ride out his contract to his UFA year. That would mean that we hit the trifecta of shedding Eichel, Reinhart and Mitts for pennies on the dollar. The pursuit of stupidity in the pursuit of losing. Freaking pathetic!

[Bagger]

Looks like Razor is confined as well. Can’t imagine a big heart like Ray would be so soft and compromised at the mic. Players making $1-7 million per year to just “show up”? The joke is on Buffalo fans and their wallets. There’s nothing but upside when you’re in the cellar. As some have said we are a pity to watch in our own end, there’s no glory in playing great hard defense. The boys just want goals (individually) to show a future trade deal…sad

[Thorner]

14 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

Hard to imagine Pegula wanting to pay Granato and Adams to not work, and possibly Ruff at some point. Though maybe Adams and Ruff could be reassigned. Is there someone in the organization (Guelli?) that Pegula would trust to run a GM search? It doesn’t seem like something Pegula is up for. 

You can’t “tear down” the youngest team in the league. But you can make changes through addition (trading picks, prospects, or one of our youngest roster forwards), or by trading one or two of our core players  (signed long-term) in a “hockey trade”. At this point, any such move by Adams would be justifiably met by many fans with a “now you make a move?” or “too little too late” reaction. Not to mention, his best trade assets (other than the 1st rd pick) are depreciating before our eyes. 

Terry can just ask Adams to forgo future pay and he’ll say yes

[Thorner]

10 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I agree that Ruff is not THE problem. We might disagree on whether he is a part of the solution, but I will concede that we could do much worse for a head coach. Generally an issue with the Sabres is they don’t operate like a normal NHL team. Normal NHL teams don’t fire a GM and then stick the new GM with the coach hired by the fired guy. It would be very Sabres-like to fire Adams and then limit the replacement options by requiring they accept Ruff as their head coach. 

I think people would understand the uniqueness of the situation and Ruff commands a certain level of respect. Ruff would be seen as the other adult in the room 

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Terry is the owner. He's going to do whatever he wants to do. That's the reality that no one other than he, himself, can change. The starting point is to get someone more qualified sitting in the GM's chair. 

Exactly. The pegula thing is being overplayed in the sense it went from “he interferes” to “he controls literally every thing ever done.”’ Adams is terrible. We can do better.

heck id gladly welcome his firing purely due to that press conference. I’m literally tired of him being the literal face of this and want him out of my sight 

I promise you I’ll watch more games if he’s fired 

Superficial olive branch to the fan base? Maybe. By all means sign me up regardless 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

The NMC is certainly real as it applies to Buffalo. That's not debatable. The clueless owner allowed his franchise to descend into irrelevancy due to its systemic dysfunction. Players at the NHL level are intensely competitive people. They want a realistic chance to win. A generation of futility is an astounding ignominious accomplishment. It's gotten so bad that it's as much of a challenge to retain your best players as it is to seek outside talent. The franchise's skunk stench of the Pegula stewardship has so permeated this franchise that few players want to be tainted. And I don't blame them. 

Mitts was traded for Byram. What happens if Byram decides that he doesn't want to sign a contract here, preferring to ride out his contract to his UFA year. That would mean that we hit the trifecta of shedding Eichel, Reinhart and Mitts for pennies on the dollar. The pursuit of stupidity in the pursuit of losing. Freaking pathetic!

Yup.   Byram is looking like a good pick up too.  I’ve seen enough games now to see his value..  He has carried the load for Dahlin better than Power has, and Lindy really rides him on minutes.   He could not re-sign, that was always a risk.  He might want more from Buffalo than from a contender.  We will see. 

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Yup.   Byram is looking like a good pick up too.  I’ve seen enough games now to see his value..  He has carried the load for Dahlin better than Power has, and Lindy really rides him on minutes.   He could not re-sign, that was always a risk.  He might want more from Buffalo than from a contender.  We will see. 

I was queasy about the Mitts trade for Byram for a variety of reasons. As you point out, the more one sees of Byram, the more impressed one gets. So, let's review this from KA's GM perspective. I have a versatile player who wants to be here but will trade him for an emerging offensive defenseman whose contract situation gives him the option to leave in the near future. Byram's mind-set is or will be after being subjected to a stream of demoralizing losses is: If I play well in Buffalo (a shiithole franchise) I can showcase my talents to all the teams in the league. What the befuddled GM has done is create leverage for this player to either leave for a bigger contract bid up by the market, or at worst, force this farcical organization to keep him in the fold for a higher market price.   

I don't know how this Byram scenario will eventually play out. I hope we can keep him. But from an overview perspective, the GM placed himself in a vulnerable position (less leverage) with this deal. There is nothing unusual about taking calculated risks for an attractive player. But when you preside over a systemically dysfunctional franchise you are in a weak position to begin with. Playing checkers doesn't mean that you can succeed in chess.  

[Pimlach]

30 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I was queasy about the Mitts trade for Byram for a variety of reasons. As you point out, the more one sees of Byram, the more impressed one gets. So, let's review this from KA's GM perspective. I have a versatile player who wants to be here but will trade him for an emerging offensive defenseman whose contract situation gives him the option to leave in the near future. Byram's mind-set is or will be after being subjected to a stream of demoralizing losses is: If I play well in Buffalo (a shiithole franchise) I can showcase my talents to all the teams in the league. What the befuddled GM has done is create leverage for this player to either leave for a bigger contract bid up by the market, or at worst, force this farcical organization to keep him in the fold for a higher market price.   

I don't know how this Byram scenario will eventually play out. I hope we can keep him. But from an overview perspective, the GM placed himself in a vulnerable position (less leverage) with this deal. There is nothing unusual about taking calculated risks for an attractive player. But when you preside over a systemically dysfunctional franchise you are in a weak position to begin with. Playing checkers doesn't mean that you can succeed in chess.  

I felt from the very beginning that we were trading a decent 2C (Mitts had a better overall game than Cozens) for another very young D-man that could leave after a full season.  It was a risk and it created a big hole in the center spline that went largely unaddressed. 

So he has to sign Byram this off season when we already have ~$25M tied up in Dahlin, Power, and Mule.  

As for the hole at center - McLeod is a nice player but not a 2C.  He is a decent 3C, with great speed and good face-off and PK skills, and he can spell a bit on the top 6.  I think he is an RFA too, so free cap money could go toward Byram and McLeod - unless they use the magic words "I don't want to be here". 

Even with palm trees this situation cannot easily be fixed.  But palm trees might help.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

58 minutes ago, JohnC said:

the more one sees of Byram, the more impressed one gets.

Seriously?  Besides adding some offense what has he done that’s impressive?  Is it the HDCA? Is it the terrible in zone coverage?  Is it the failure to hit anyone or block shots?  Is it the constant giveaways with few takeaways? Or is it just being marginally better than everyone else who is just as bad if not worse?

He’s not as bad as Power, but that’s not exactly a compliment either.   

Byram is another fundamentally flawed former high draft pick that Adams likes to collect because he thinks draft position = NHL talent.  If any team has proven that isn’t true it’s the Adams lead Buffalo Sabres.  

 

[Mango]

25 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I felt from the very beginning that we were trading a decent 2C (Mitts had a better overall game than Cozens) for another very young D-man that could leave after a full season.  It was a risk and it created a big hole in the center spline that went largely unaddressed. 

So he has to sign Byram this off season when we already have ~$25M tied up in Dahlin, Power, and Mule.  

As for the hole at center - McLeod is a nice player but not a 2C.  He is a decent 3C, with great speed and good face-off and PK skills, and he can spell a bit on the top 6.  I think he is an RFA too, so free cap money could go toward Byram and McLeod - unless they use the magic words "I don't want to be here". 

Even with palm trees this situation cannot easily be fixed.  But palm trees might help.  

I actually strongly disagree here. 

We have the most expensive blue line in the league and we suck at defense. This team absolutely cannot extend Byram without moving on from one of Power, Mule, and/or Dahlin. It would be an incredible over investment with an upside down return. 

Just swapping costs/players with Mule and Byram could make this a bit more palatable, but it is still an upside down investment. 

I think the best return is likely trading Byram for a better return than Mitts or keeping Byram and trying to get a hall for Power. Otherwise trading for Byram with the plan of keeping the entire defense was and is terrible.  

[Mango]

12 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Seriously?  Besides adding some offense what has he done that’s impressive?  Is it the HDCA? Is it the terrible in zone coverage?  Is it the failure to hit anyone or block shots?  Is it the constant giveaways with few takeaways? Or is it just being marginally better than everyone else who is just as bad if not worse?

He’s not as bad as Power, but that’s not exactly a compliment either.   

Byram is another fundamentally flawed former high draft pick that Adams likes to collect because he thinks draft position = NHL talent.  If any team has proven that isn’t true it’s the Adams lead Buffalo Sabres.  

 

I think Byram and Power are good but they need to be on a better balanced blue line. Their defensive flaws are magnified because everybody else sucks at it too and the trio of Dahls, Power, and Bo are supposed to be "the guys". But as piece on a better defensive unit they'd probably be awesome. 

[Believer]

30 minutes ago, Mango said:

I actually strongly disagree here. 

We have the most expensive blue line in the league and we suck at defense. This team absolutely cannot extend Byram without moving on from one of Power, Mule, and/or Dahlin. It would be an incredible over investment with an upside down return. 

Just swapping costs/players with Mule and Byram could make this a bit more palatable, but it is still an upside down investment. 

I think the best return is likely trading Byram for a better return than Mitts or keeping Byram and trying to get a hall for Power. Otherwise trading for Byram with the plan of keeping the entire defense was and is terrible.  

Agree about our investment in D. Would extend Byram.

Samuelson is a bust. Package him and trade him while he still has decent value.

 

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, Believer said:

Agree about our investment in D. Would extend Byram.

Samuelson is a bust. Package him and trade him while he still has decent value.

 

I guess some of it depends on the terms. I assume that he'll get something closer to Power than he does to Mule.  Which I don't like even if it is just Dahls, Power, Bo without Mule. 

Still too much spent on a core that doesn't play much defense. 

[bunomatic]

Sabres feed is blowing up right now. They’re calling on the nhl to put TPs feet to the fire in the same way the league leaned into melnyck in Ottawa and the Arizona owners. I don’t have a link and for that I apologize.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I actually strongly disagree here. 

We have the most expensive blue line in the league and we suck at defense. This team absolutely cannot extend Byram without moving on from one of Power, Mule, and/or Dahlin. It would be an incredible over investment with an upside down return. 

Just swapping costs/players with Mule and Byram could make this a bit more palatable, but it is still an upside down investment. 

I think the best return is likely trading Byram for a better return than Mitts or keeping Byram and trying to get a hall for Power. Otherwise trading for Byram with the plan of keeping the entire defense was and is terrible.  

Not sure what you disagree with since I pointed out the big investment in the 3 defensemen already signed, but ok.  

Adams plan is most likely to extend Byram and the top four would be Dahlin, Byram, Power, Muel - that is based on the moves Adams has already made, not on what I think he should do.  

Teams will be interested in Byram if he asks to be traded.  I double checked Muels contract, it is $4.3M for 7 years, not $5.5 which is what I initially used, so the 3 signed defensemen total $23.6M, not $25M.   

If Muel can stay healthy and play the game like they projected he would it was a solid signing - remember he was given this deal after 57 NHL games.  I thought he looked mediocre in his first game back against the Rangers, he was standing around watching the play on the first goal, leaving Ryan Johnson out to dry.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

I think Byram and Power are good but they need to be on a better balanced blue line.

They aren't good.  They make no pretense at even trying to play well defensively.  They are the Jeff Skinner of defensemen; all offense and no clue that hockey is a 200 foot game.  One of these two duds needs to be traded.  I'd prefer Power.  A 6'6" 220 lbs D who doesn't hit anyone, doesn't box out, and regularly gets beat on the rush needs to go regardless of his O skill.  It would also save $8 mill a year on his terrible contract.

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, bunomatic said:

Sabres feed is blowing up right now. They’re calling on the nhl to put TPs feet to the fire in the same way the league leaned into melnyck in Ottawa and the Arizona owners. I don’t have a link and for that I apologize.

Feet to the fire meaning....?

Sell the team? Firings/hirings? Make a public statement about the team?

and by "Sabres feed" are you talking just everday fans on social media? or something else?

Edited December 13 by mjd1001

[bunomatic]

14 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Feet to the fire meaning....?

Sell the team? Firings/hirings? Make a public statement about the team?

and by "Sabres feed" are you talking just everday fans on social media? or something else?

Yeah I’ve been trying to find the link but essentially a bunch of fans are trying to raise awareness about TP and his craptastic form of ownership with the league. Hey maybe the article was about SS🤷🏻‍♂️

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Seriously?  Besides adding some offense what has he done that’s impressive?  Is it the HDCA? Is it the terrible in zone coverage?  Is it the failure to hit anyone or block shots?  Is it the constant giveaways with few takeaways? Or is it just being marginally better than everyone else who is just as bad if not worse?

He’s not as bad as Power, but that’s not exactly a compliment either.   

Byram is another fundamentally flawed former high draft pick that Adams likes to collect because he thinks draft position = NHL talent.  If any team has proven that isn’t true it’s the Adams lead Buffalo Sabres.  

 

Yes, I'm serious. Byram is an offensive defenseman. That's who he is. He's not a stay at home positional player, and never will be. If you want that type of defenseman, then pursue that type of player. You can throw out whatever analytics you want and be enamored by them. I'm not as impressed or as influenced by the numbers as you are because they more often than not don't reflect the actual performance of the individual player. It's not unusual that the less than impressive analytics for a particular player are influenced by the other players on the ice. 

It's my belief (opinion) that the ineffective GM made the judgment that Cozens was a 2C. And if that were true, it would have made the departure of Mitts less impactful with the added benefit of adding a first or second pairing defenseman. Not surprising, the out of his depth GM miscalculated. The moral of the story: going backwards is not going forward. 

[HumanSlinky39]

Still nothing, eh Kev?

[Gatorman0519]

6 points out of the wildcard. A lot of season left but it’s going to get harder to make up ground.