Hockey Heaven!

[JP51]

44 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How long until they announce a return to video only scouting?

Not a chance tape is too expensive and might lead to actually making a good pick... they are gonna revolutionize scouting... going to listening to pod casts with play by play highlights as their prime scouting focus.... 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So is 8 enough to get Adams fired?

Nope.  Maybe 12.  

[PerreaultForever]

the general sentiment is something has to be done now. Pegula might not agree. 

[bunomatic]

At this point in time I doubt Terry cares. He’s got the Bills to keep him happy. But the fans of the Sabres might need to get loud to effect change. Squeeky wheel gets the grease.

[Archie Lee]

Hard to imagine Pegula wanting to pay Granato and Adams to not work, and possibly Ruff at some point. Though maybe Adams and Ruff could be reassigned. Is there someone in the organization (Guelli?) that Pegula would trust to run a GM search? It doesn’t seem like something Pegula is up for. 

You can’t “tear down” the youngest team in the league. But you can make changes through addition (trading picks, prospects, or one of our youngest roster forwards), or by trading one or two of our core players  (signed long-term) in a “hockey trade”. At this point, any such move by Adams would be justifiably met by many fans with a “now you make a move?” or “too little too late” reaction. Not to mention, his best trade assets (other than the 1st rd pick) are depreciating before our eyes. 

[Warriorspikes51]

Ruff can be Coach and GM for the rest of the season.  At least teams would deal with us then 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

Hard to imagine Pegula wanting to pay Granato and Adams to not work, and possibly Ruff at some point. Though maybe Adams and Ruff could be reassigned. Is there someone in the organization (Guelli?) that Pegula would trust to run a GM search? It doesn’t seem like something Pegula is up for. 

You can’t “tear down” the youngest team in the league. But you can make changes through addition (trading picks, prospects, or one of our youngest roster forwards), or by trading one or two of our core players  (signed long-term) in a “hockey trade”. At this point, any such move by Adams would be justifiably met by many fans with a “now you make a move?” or “too little too late” reaction. Not to mention, his best trade assets (other than the 1st rd pick) are depreciating before our eyes. 

Ruff is not the problem. Adams should be reassigned back to the business side of the franchise. Changing KA's assignment would not be a punitive act; it would be a merciful act. 

[Archie Lee]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Ruff is not the problem. Adams should be reassigned back to the business side of the franchise. Changing KA's assignment would not be a punitive act; it would be a merciful act. 

I agree that Ruff is not THE problem. We might disagree on whether he is a part of the solution, but I will concede that we could do much worse for a head coach. Generally an issue with the Sabres is they don’t operate like a normal NHL team. Normal NHL teams don’t fire a GM and then stick the new GM with the coach hired by the fired guy. It would be very Sabres-like to fire Adams and then limit the replacement options by requiring they accept Ruff as their head coach. 

[mjd1001]

25 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I agree that Ruff is not THE problem. We might disagree on whether he is a part of the solution, but I will concede that we could do much worse for a head coach. Generally an issue with the Sabres is they don’t operate like a normal NHL team. Normal NHL teams don’t fire a GM and then stick the new GM with the coach hired by the fired guy. It would be very Sabres-like to fire Adams and then limit the replacement options by requiring they accept Ruff as their head coach. 

Unless you promote a new GM from within.

But the problem with promoting from within.... you are getting a 'first time GM' and a guy who was likely a large part of the very decision making that got the team to where it is now.

Edited December 12 by mjd1001

[Ross Rhea]

At this point I think the Sabre brand is so tarnished around the league former Sabre players may be the only people willing to take jobs within the organization. Thats tough when Terry seems to have painted himself into a corner with his ineptness.  

[HumanSlinky39]

I'm sure Kev is burning up the phones trying to shake things up to stop this death spiral. We'll probably hear something any minute now. 

 

Oh wait, today was the office chili cookoff. 

Maybe tomorrow.

[Mango]

4 hours ago, JohnC said:

Ruff is not the problem. Adams should be reassigned back to the business side of the franchise. Changing KA's assignment would not be a punitive act; it would be a merciful act. 

No he shouldn't. 

Adams needs to be removed from the org. The same goes for the every one of the USA Hockey dev guys in the building. 

Anything short of that will just be more of the same. 

[JohnC]

29 minutes ago, Mango said:

No he shouldn't. 

Adams needs to be removed from the org. The same goes for the every one of the USA Hockey dev guys in the building. 

Anything short of that will just be more of the same. 

When he was involved in the business side of the hockey operation (that involved managing the youth hockey business) he had no involvement with the NHL franchise operation. 

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When he was involved in the business side of the hockey operation (that involved managing the youth hockey business) he had no involvement with the NHL franchise operation. 

There is no good reason to keep a terrible GM in house for any reason. Especially one the owner has a liking for. 

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

There is no good reason to keep a terrible GM in house for any reason. Especially one the owner has a liking for. 

He was not a real GM before being hired, while he was the GM and after his ignominious stint is over with. He's an earnest good guy who was ill-equipped guy for the challenging job that he took on. To put it kindly, he never should have been hired for that role. This boondoggle is on the befuddled owner. 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I agree that Ruff is not THE problem. We might disagree on whether he is a part of the solution, but I will concede that we could do much worse for a head coach. Generally an issue with the Sabres is they don’t operate like a normal NHL team. Normal NHL teams don’t fire a GM and then stick the new GM with the coach hired by the fired guy. It would be very Sabres-like to fire Adams and then limit the replacement options by requiring they accept Ruff as their head coach. 

Since the current owner took over, the Sabres were not a normally run franchise. They became a boring comedy act. 

[Mango]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

He was not a real GM before being hired, while he was the GM and after his ignominious stint is over with. He's an earnest good guy who was ill-equipped guy for the challenging job that he took on. To put it kindly, he never should have been hired for that role. This boondoggle is on the befuddled owner. 

You are just making my argument for me. There is no reason to keep a guy in house who never should have been hired in the first place. Anybody else could do his prior job managing junior hockey. Keeping around Adams stank is bad for business. 

It is unfortunate that Pegula put him in a position to fail, but you can't go from CEO to secretary in the same business. It isn't healthy for anybody. Not the owner, not the new CEO, not the janitors, or account managers, or engineers, or lawyers. You can't unscramble an egg. 

[jad1]

5 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I agree that Ruff is not THE problem. We might disagree on whether he is a part of the solution, but I will concede that we could do much worse for a head coach. Generally an issue with the Sabres is they don’t operate like a normal NHL team. Normal NHL teams don’t fire a GM and then stick the new GM with the coach hired by the fired guy. It would be very Sabres-like to fire Adams and then limit the replacement options by requiring they accept Ruff as their head coach. 

Why wouldn't they just promote Karmanos for the rest of the season?  He was well-regarded by the rest of the league, and the sooner you make the move, the more you'll be able to see if he can handle the job.  If he can't handle it, fire him and hire someone else in the off season. 

Oh, and ask Ruff if there are any coaches he likes who are hanging out on their couches right now.  Let him bring those guys in and fire Ellis and Wilford.  Ruff sounds like he's had it with Kevyn's boys.

[Archie Lee]

21 minutes ago, jad1 said:

Why wouldn't they just promote Karmanos for the rest of the season?  He was well-regarded by the rest of the league, and the sooner you make the move, the more you'll be able to see if he can handle the job.  If he can't handle it, fire him and hire someone else in the off season. 

Oh, and ask Ruff if there are any coaches he likes who are hanging out on their couches right now.  Let him bring those guys in and fire Ellis and Wilford.  Ruff sounds like he's had it with Kevyn's boys.

I would be ok with Karmanos taking over in an interim basis and then reassessing at year end. 

[Crusader1969]

8 loses in a row and it's all quiet in Sabres land.  Thought I'd look at twitter in the late afternoon and see some type of move by the team.    Crickets 

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I agree that Ruff is not THE problem. We might disagree on whether he is a part of the solution, but I will concede that we could do much worse for a head coach. Generally an issue with the Sabres is they don’t operate like a normal NHL team. Normal NHL teams don’t fire a GM and then stick the new GM with the coach hired by the fired guy. It would be very Sabres-like to fire Adams and then limit the replacement options by requiring they accept Ruff as their head coach. 

Pegula will not want to pay Granato, Adams, and Ruff.   The terms of Adams contract from 2020 are not known to me. 

If he fires Adams he will probably replace him with Karmanos.  If he doesn't take it, then Forton will.   (BTW - I prefer Karmanos by a large margin over Forton)

This way he does the least possible work on the Sabres, for the lowest investment, and he still has people he knows in there.  

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Pegula will not want to pay Granato, Adams, and Ruff.   The terms of Adams contract from 2020 are not known to me. 

If he fires Adams he will probably replace him with Karmanos.  If he doesn't take it, then Forton will.   (BTW - I prefer Karmanos by a large margin over Forton)

This way he does the least possible work on the Sabres, for the lowest investment, and he still has people he knows in there.  

Why do you think that Karmanos would decline the position? It would be a terrific opportunity for him. This team is not bereft of talent. A few wise tweaks that would better balance out the roster is attainable by someone who knows what they are doing. The margin between success and failure is not that great. It can be achieved by someone who is better equipped to handle the duties of the GM than the current GM. 

[Flashsabre]

39 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Why do you think that Karmanos would decline the position? It would be a terrific opportunity for him. This team is not bereft of talent. A few wise tweaks that would better balance out the roster is attainable by someone who knows what they are doing. The margin between success and failure is not that great. It can be achieved by someone who is better equipped to handle the duties of the GM than the current GM. 

Adams, Karmanos, Forton it doesn’t matter. Those 3 are all part of the front office that is to blame for this mess. These are decisions Pegula wants. The next man up just does what Pegula wants done.  Murray and Botts did not and they were canned.

Lets not pretend for a second that Karmanos takes over and suddenly he has Carte Blanche to do what he wants.

I doubt Adams is fired, he will be moved to some other position and someone in that FO will be promoted so Pegula isn’t paying anyone else. Just like Lindy and the assistant coaches. 

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Adams, Karmanos, Forton it doesn’t matter. Those 3 are all part of the front office that is to blame for this mess. These are decisions Pegula wants. The next man up just does what Pegula wants done.  Murray and Botts did not and they were canned.

Lets not pretend for a second that Karmanos takes over and suddenly he has Carte Blanche to do what he wants.

I doubt Adams is fired, he will be moved to some other position and someone in that FO will be promoted so Pegula isn’t paying anyone else. Just like Lindy and the assistant coaches. 

I'm not overly concerned where KA is going to be moved to if a change is made at the GM position. The critical issue is getting someone in the position who is better equipped to do the job. 

[Flashsabre]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm not overly concerned where KA is going to be moved to if a change is made at the GM position. The critical issue is getting someone in the position who is better equipped to do the job. 

The problem is though that Pegula is going to expect the Adams relationship with any new GM. Does Karmanos want to be on the phone with Pegula several times every day listening to Terry’s ideas and updating him on every thing he is doing.

It comes down to Terry backing the F off and letting a qualified person come in and have the room to breathe and do the job.

Edited December 13 by Flashsabre