Hockey Heaven!

[Slack_in_MA]

On 12/9/2024 at 4:53 PM, Mr Peabody said:

I think it’s about the same as any business staff meeting.  How we doing, how are we tracking to plan, if off plan how are we going to make it up,  etc.  Anything new, anything you need from me, thanks for taking the bullets in that press conference, etc.  

Having worked for a big company for my entire career, when things are humming along nicely, the CEO can let it ride and focus on strategic things. When sh!t hits the fan in an area of the business, they like regular updates on corrective action plans until things are back on track. It's not that they always think they have all the answers, but they are very often astute businesspeople with strong critical-thinking and problem-solving skills. Not saying that's necessarily the case here, but that's my experience.

And when you write the checks, you can do and ask for whatever you want-- right or wrong as that may be.

Edited December 10 by Slack_in_MA

[Believer]

9 minutes ago, Slack_in_MA said:

Having worked for a big company for my entire career, when things are humming along nicely, the CEO can let it ride and focus on strategic things. When sh!t hits the fan in an area of the business, they like regular updates on corrective action plans until things are back on track. It's not that they always think they have all the answers, but they are very often astute businesspeople with strong critical-thinking and problem-solving skills. Not saying that's necessarily the case here, but that's my experience.

My large corporate experience as well.

Can’t possibly be the case here after 13 seasons missing the playoffs when each season half the teams qualify.

There is some confounding variable.

What could it be? Hmm.

[That Aud Smell]

12 minutes ago, Slack_in_MA said:

It's not that they always think they have all the answers, but they are very often astute businesspeople with strong critical-thinking and problem-solving skills. Not saying that's necessarily the case here, but that's my experience.

(It is definitely NOT the case here.)

[Slack_in_MA]

2 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

(It is definitely NOT the case here.)

Correct. Sometimes they THINK they have those skills in one area based on some success in an unrelated area.  

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, Slack_in_MA said:

Correct. Sometimes they THINK they have those skills in one area based on some success in an unrelated area.  

or, as here, a speculative oilman who got filthy rich largely by virtue of good luck presumes he can do the same with a pro hockey team. (also, he *thinks* his business acumen and savvy are why he became a billionaire — he lacks self awareness and, as far as I can tell, any appreciable business skills.)

[JohnC]

13 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

or, as here, a speculative oilman who got filthy rich largely by virtue of good luck presumes he can do the same with a pro hockey team. (also, he *thinks* his business acumen and savvy are why he became a billionaire — he lacks self awareness and, as far as I can tell, any appreciable business skills.)

I have made this point in other posts so I apologize for the redundancy. The owner has successful business/sports models to follow. They are the Bills and the Bandits. It's not complicated: Choose wisely and let them make the decisions in their areas of expertise. There is no excuse for this owner's stupidity and stubbornness. Doesn't he watch the games? If he had any pride, he should be embarrassed that the other owners don't have much regard for him and his inert organization. 

 

[Weave]

11 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I have made this point in other posts so I apologize for the redundancy. The owner has successful business/sports models to follow. They are the Bills and the Bandits. It's not complicated: Choose wisely and let them make the decisions in their areas of expertise. There is no excuse for this owner's stupidity and stubbornness. Doesn't he watch the games? If he had any pride, he should be embarrassed that the other owners don't have much regard for him and his inert organization. 

 

The theory posted earlier that the owner is more involved because it is a tighter cash flow operation is a plausible reason why he is not willing to step back.

It’s close to the only thing that makes sense.

[JohnC]

21 minutes ago, Weave said:

The theory posted earlier that the owner is more involved because it is a tighter cash flow operation is a plausible reason why he is not willing to step back.

It’s close to the only thing that makes sense.

During the covid period, he was certainly hemorrhaging money in his hockey and hospitality businesses. He went on an austerity budget with the hockey organization and got rid of lot of the hospitality businesses. There is nothing unreasonable about how he responded during that period.  However, he wasn't alone dealing with the challenging cash/flow situation. So was everyone else in the business. Insisting on a spartan budget for the organization that resulted in a lot of job losses was an understandable response to that catastrophic economic environment. That tumultuous period has been over with for at least three years. 

What has kept this organization sunk are the accumulated bad hockey decisions made by the GM, the person he hired. Paradoxically, if he would have hired the right people to run the hockey operation, not only would this team be more competitive but also his cash flow would be more robust with the added attendance and customer expenditures. What he has essentially done is kill the market for his product. That's not only bad business but also dumb business. As the saying goes: Penny wise and dollar foolish. $$$$$$$

[Cranky old man]

The Sabres owe it to Lindy to give him at least the entire season to implement his methods. He has a two year deal. He stays. Unless they end the season dramatically worse than last year Pegs’ spider stays too. If Lindy gets them to the playoffs he gets more powerful, especially if he’s talking to Pegs too…

[Stads]

I'll take this seriously later, but here's what I comically envision:

Interior, Terry's office, day

Kevyn Adams knocks on the door and sheepishly enters. Terry sits at his desk and motions for him to come over

Terry- "Kevyn, my good man, how goes it?"

Kevyn- "However you think I should feel sir. I really thought my impassioned press conference would rally the troops. The palm tree line was good, right?"

Terry- "It was certainly...something. You said on the phone you needed to discuss something with me."

Kevyn- "I wanted to talk again about the cap space. We could really use it to..."

Terry raises his hand and gently places his index finger on Kevyn's pursed lips and makes a light shushing sound

Terry- "I don't care if the losing streak reaches 15. You do not touch that MONEY! You're a good boy and have served me well. Do not bite the hand that feeds. I can have Karamanos in here tomorrow protecting the status quo. Tread lightly. By the way, that Kozak loan to Rochester is costing us $40 for the Uber trip down the 90. I expect that money on my desk by the end of business today. "

 

[Mango]

8 hours ago, Pimlach said:

sure.  And it also occurs to me that there are probably a dozen really good players on the team, stuck in a losing culture, who had to play in poor coaching systems, and in an organization that that does not have the leadership and the know how to build a competitive team.  

Many, many players leave and have good careers, and some have great ones.  

Right all that can be and is true. 

But I also don’t think there are more than 2 or 3 coaches in the league that get this team as currently constructed into the playoffs. That list gets smaller when you think of who’s available, who would take the job, and who Terry would hire. 

For the record I don’t think this was the case in all the draught era rosters. 

Right now we are a lot of pieces that aren’t exactly a cohesive NHL team. And I don’t mean that as an in “lets do this one for the Gipper” sense. I mean it as in they just don’t have a roster full of complementary skill sets, and developing players don’t have the right players to help them develop properly. 

I think we have a slightly above average HC managing a below average roster (as a whole)

[PerreaultForever]

Just curious, but who you replacing him with? Appert? You are joking right?

[SwampD]

3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Just curious, but who you replacing him with? Appert? You are joking right?

The problem ain’t Lindy.

[#freejame]

40 minutes ago, SwampD said:

The problem ain’t Lindy.

The problem isn’t Lindy, but he’s not the solution either and he’s upgradable. 

Not directed at you, but many people have lost sight of the “upgradable” aspect of the game. Good teams get better all the time. We hang on to too many of our guys. It’s why Lindy is fifth all-time in wins to begin with. 

[SwampD]

13 minutes ago, #freejame said:

The problem isn’t Lindy, but he’s not the solution either and he’s upgradable. 

Not directed at you, but many people have lost sight of the “upgradable” aspect of the game. Good teams get better all the time. We hang on to too many of our guys. It’s why Lindy is fifth all-time in wins to begin with. 

Upgrade the power play coach, then.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

The problem isn’t Lindy, but he’s not the solution either and he’s upgradable. 

Not directed at you, but many people have lost sight of the “upgradable” aspect of the game. Good teams get better all the time. We hang on to too many of our guys. It’s why Lindy is fifth all-time in wins to begin with. 

Yes, but that doesn't relate to Lindy. imo ALL of the assistants should have been fired at season's end with Granato and Lindy should have been given the power to hire his own staff AND have a say in who coached Rochester to create continuity there as well. 

After that no more input on coaching from Adams (or Pegula). Lindy only talks to Adams if he needs a player to be gone or desperately needs a hole filled. He is then also measured solely by his win loss record as coach. 

[SABRES 0311]

So now it’s Ruff’s fault? How about our core is mostly made up of over hyped players that don’t know what consistency means. We sunk a lot of money into guys who never deserved it in Power, Cozens, and Muel and will probably never live up to their contracts.

Maybe it’s not the coach or solely on the borderline garbage GM. Maybe, some of these players are just mediocre at best.

[sabresouth]

Ruff isn't the problem. It's the gm failing to ice and nhl level team. I mean Bryson is still on the team among others.

[Weave]

10 hours ago, JohnC said:

During the covid period, he was certainly hemorrhaging money in his hockey and hospitality businesses. He went on an austerity budget with the hockey organization and got rid of lot of the hospitality businesses. There is nothing unreasonable about how he responded during that period.  However, he wasn't alone dealing with the challenging cash/flow situation. So was everyone else in the business. Insisting on a spartan budget for the organization that resulted in a lot of job losses was an understandable response to that catastrophic economic environment. That tumultuous period has been over with for at least three years. 

What has kept this organization sunk are the accumulated bad hockey decisions made by the GM, the person he hired. Paradoxically, if he would have hired the right people to run the hockey operation, not only would this team be more competitive but also his cash flow would be more robust with the added attendance and customer expenditures. What he has essentially done is kill the market for his product. That's not only bad business but also dumb business. As the saying goes: Penny wise and dollar foolish. $$$$$$$

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?  I honestly can’t tell.

The idea that the Sabres are much more dependent on cash flow didn’t go away when the covid restrictions went away.  Sabres tix prices are among the lowest in the league and attendance is also among the lowest in the league.  Regardless of covid, the Sabres are certainly among the lowest in terms of revenue in a league that needs fans in the seats to be profitable.  I could see where Terry would want to be more engaged given he is more at risk with the Sabres relative to the Bills.  The Bills would be profitable with an empty stadium.

That Terry has contributed heavily to being in the current situation goes without saying.  It’s self evident and therefore uninteresting for me to discuss.  It’s like discussing the sun rising in the east.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Weave said:

Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing?  I honestly can’t tell.

The idea that the Sabres are much more dependent on cash flow didn’t go away when the covid restrictions went away.  Sabres tix prices are among the lowest in the league and attendance is also among the lowest in the league.  Regardless of covid, the Sabres are certainly among the lowest in terms of revenue in a league that needs fans in the seats to be profitable.  I could see where Terry would want to be more engaged given he is more at risk with the Sabres relative to the Bills.  The Bills would be profitable with an empty stadium.

That Terry has contributed heavily to being in the current situation goes without saying.  It’s self evident and therefore uninteresting for me to discuss.  It’s like discussing the sun rising in the east.

Agree.

[Weave]

Just now, JohnC said:

Agree.

I wasted all that energy for this?  🤪

[#freejame]

7 hours ago, SwampD said:

Upgrade the power play coach, then.

Upgrade the entire staff

[JohnC]

14 minutes ago, Weave said:

I wasted all that energy for this?  🤪

Let me add to my brief and less than illuminating response. Especially in the covid period, he was hemorrhaging money with his hockey and hospitality businesses. He responded by demanding an austerity strategy that was going to cut a lot of staff and gut the scouting department. The GM, Botterill, was not on board. So he was fired. I have little criticism for the owner for taking the severe cost cutting measures in an economically challenging time. I also would have had little problem with the KA hire to replace Botterill if it would have been on a temporary basis until he could find a more competent GM. This is the point of demarcation where the organization lost its way. That's not to say that the hockey people prior to the GM change didn't also make a series of bad decisions. 

The owner made an inexplicable and indefensible decision to hire an ill-equipped novice to manage a complex operation in a highly competitive field. That boondoggle decision by the owner has kept the franchise stuck in mediocrity. And so in my mind, the blame for the laughingstock state of this franchise is on the owner. The Buffalo area hockey market that includes southern Canada and parts of Penn. is a good hockey market. He has killed it with his foolish stewardship that has lasted for nearly a generation.  It's maddening and sad. It didn't have to be this way. 

 

[EM88]

8 hours ago, #freejame said:

The problem isn’t Lindy, but he’s not the solution either and he’s upgradable. 

Not directed at you, but many people have lost sight of the “upgradable” aspect of the game. Good teams get better all the time. We hang on to too many of our guys. It’s why Lindy is fifth all-time in wins to begin with. 

Some of us don't see a big time upgrade out there. Some of us think that Lindy is still better than most of what is out there.

The argument and posts back and forth are from this.  You think it is a fact that he's upgradable, and I assume both theoretically and in a practical sense.  Many of us do not think both of those things are true.

3 hours ago, sabresouth said:

Ruff isn't the problem. It's the gm failing to ice and nhl level team. I mean Bryson is still on the team among others.

I'm going to agree with you but not put it all on the GM. I still think that the owner has a lot of input even into the roster, and at the very least he has set the budget over the last few years that the hockey department has had to work within. That budget being no spending to the cap until the arena is filled and fans start forking over $ again.

[DarthEbriate]

Since the palm presser, has any Buffalo beat writer had the chance to ask Beane whether he talks to Pegula every day?