Hockey Heaven!

[LabattBlue]

22 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

The problem is Pegula.

He fired Botts because he felt he didn’t communicate with him. Adams does whatever he says and probably calls him with every thought that enters his head.

Does a quality vet GM want to have to call Pegula several times a day and kiss his ass and listen to his “hockey ideas” when he knows Terry is full of 💩?

Beautiful!  👏🏻

[Thorner]

20 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

The problem is Pegula.

He fired Botts because he felt he didn’t communicate with him. Adams does whatever he says and probably calls him with every thought that enters his head.

Does a quality vet GM want to have to call Pegula several times a day and kiss his ass and listen to his “hockey ideas” when he knows Terry is full of 💩?

No, he fired Botts because he wouldn’t trim the staff 

What you said in your last paragraph is literally the job of the GM and yes we need someone who can manage the owner and convince him of the right way to do things: we know to a certainly that the unqualified Adams is not capable of that. As I mentioned in my post you quoted, the hurdle is pegula agreeing to hire this GM

[Thorner]

40 minutes ago, EM88 said:

There are posters on this forum who agree with you.

There are others that think that your thoughts are not true and this is mostly Adams fault.

I tend to agree with you. Something like 4 gms, 8 coaches, roster turnover year after year, but one owner. It has been discussed in much great detail other place on these pages, but I agree with you and your 2nd and 3rd lines summarize Pegula accurately and succinctly. 

No one is arguing anything else, though, no one thinks Adams is poor but Terry is a good owner. Or not responsible for hiring that poor GM and ones like him.

The players aren’t good enough, because they were assembled by a GM who isn’t good enough, because he was hired by an owner who isn’t good enough at picking GMs. 

Just because we know Adams is incompetent doesn’t mean firing him guarantees his replacement would better.

But you ask your GM to makes moves to improve your team until you they are no longer the GM - even through their track record in team building is one of failure to that point. Much the same way, If Terry is the owner, the hope is that he can pick a better GM or even agrees to one day pick someone with experience. It’s obviously not impossible he can a) get lucky or B) hire someone better than bottom of the barrel Adams.

there’s no harm is trying, because while we know Adams to be a poor GM we don’t know to a certainty a new hire couldn’t break differently. If Adams is a total complete “yes” man you can’t hire a yes-ier guy

obv a new owner is the best option - but if a new one isn’t an option then trying something is better doing literally nothing: than replicating the same process leading to disastrous results over and over again.

Of course I was highly critical of Adams this past summer but I wasn’t saying “don’t make any moves this summer cause it won’t make a difference, cause he’s proven his past efforts were futile.” I wanted him to try. Most are saying the same thing with the GM. But I also think almost all think a different Owner/Owner philosophy would serve best.

at the end of the day the buck always stops at the top and that’s TP

Edited December 9 by Thorner

[GoPuckYourself]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

The problem is Pegula.

He fired Botts because he felt he didn’t communicate with him. Adams does whatever he says and probably calls him with every thought that enters his head.

Does a quality vet GM want to have to call Pegula several times a day and kiss his ass and listen to his “hockey ideas” when he knows Terry is full of 💩?

Show me where you read this, this seems conjured up.

[Flashsabre]

14 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

Show me where you read this, this seems conjured up.

Look it up yourself. It’s not my job to do your work for you. If you don’t remember it then that’s on you.

[Flashsabre]

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

No, he fired Botts because he wouldn’t trim the staff 

What you said in your last paragraph is literally the job of the GM and yes we need someone who can manage the owner and convince him of the right way to do things: we know to a certainly that the unqualified Adams is not capable of that. As I mentioned in my post you quoted, the hurdle is pegula agreeing to hire this GM

 

“On second thought, Buffalo Sabres owners Terry and Kim Pegula weren't pleased with general manager Jason Botterill continuing to oversee their franchise.

Citing a lack of communication and philosophical differences over the direction of a franchise in the midst of a nine-year playoff drought, the Pegulas reversed course in making the abrupt decision to fire Botterill on Tuesday.

It was a stunning move that came three weeks after Kim Pegula told The Associated Press that Botterill would be retained.”

[GoPuckYourself]

39 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Look it up yourself. It’s not my job to do your work for you. If you don’t remember it then that’s on you.

I figured as much.

 

It's like twitter in here, people can just say anything they want with no facts at all.

Edited December 9 by GoPuckYourself

[Flashsabre]

13 minutes ago, GoPuckYourself said:

I figured as much.

 

It's like twitter in here, people can just say anything they want with no facts at all.

“On second thought, Buffalo Sabres owners Terry and Kim Pegula weren't pleased with general manager Jason Botterill continuing to oversee their franchise.

Citing a lack of communication and philosophical differences over the direction of a franchise in themidst of a nine-year playoff drought, the Pegulas reversed course in making the abrupt decision to fire Botterill on Tuesday.

It was a stunning move that came three weeks after Kim Pegula told The Associated Press that Botterill would be retained.”
 

Apology accepted. It’s like twitter here, people don’t want to take the time to do the work on anything. They just want to question everyone else

Edited December 9 by Flashsabre

[GoPuckYourself]

20 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

“On second thought, Buffalo Sabres owners Terry and Kim Pegula weren't pleased with general manager Jason Botterill continuing to oversee their franchise.

Citing a lack of communication and philosophical differences over the direction of a franchise in themidst of a nine-year playoff drought, the Pegulas reversed course in making the abrupt decision to fire Botterill on Tuesday.

It was a stunning move that came three weeks after Kim Pegula told The Associated Press that Botterill would be retained.”
 

Apology accepted. It’s like twitter here, people don’t want to take the time to do the work on anything. They just want to question everyone else

I'm not playing baby games with you man, either drop the link or don't. 

[JohnC]

On 12/7/2024 at 6:32 PM, mjd1001 said:

If you could get something of value for Cozens I would be all for it.

I just don't think someone that is on his 2nd season away from that 30 goal season, and makes as many mistakes as he does (he is the worst positional player at forward I have ever seen) and that 30 goal year was obviously an outlier in that he shot almost 15% to do it (his other seasons shooting were 6.5%, 8.1%, 9.2% 9.0%, 8.3%).

Maybe you are right and I'm not, but I just don't think other teams will look at him and say "Lets give you a top center and have the centerpiece of the return you give s being a guy who most of his career is 'high teens' goal scorer who is awful defensively and usually shoots in the single digits for his career, but we are hope he will turn into what he was for one single season and has shown zero signs of doing it for almost a full year and a half after. Oh, and we are going to allocate $7m of cap space to him.

I wouldn't deal Cozens. I would prefer playing him on the wing. In the international tournaments he thrived as a winger. Our misguided and less than visionary GM had the opportunity to re-sign Mitts and have him center the second line. Without a doubt, Byram is playing very well. But from a roster construction standpoint, it would have made more sense to keep Mitts and then put him in as a second-line center. In addition, Mitts had the versatility to also play wing or even move up to the center the top line when Tage gets hurt. 

Just think, we had Eichel, Reinhart and Mitts on the roster. That would have been quite a center spine for this team. All are gone while this team continues to spin its wheels and get nowhere. Our GM is a checkers player competing with chess players. 

[Pimlach]

6 hours ago, Gatorman0519 said:

KA should be fired immediately and the job given to an experienced outsider. An experienced NHL front office could have this team in the right direction in few years. When Florida did this, Zito brought in his people and turned them into a juggernaut very quickly. 

Zito was the finalist in the GM search that got us Boterill.  So Terry should know what a good candidate sounds like in an interview.  He has to be willing to turn it over. He should find someone who did it at the NHL level and let him go.  . 

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

 

“On second thought, Buffalo Sabres owners Terry and Kim Pegula weren't pleased with general manager Jason Botterill continuing to oversee their franchise.

Citing a lack of communication and philosophical differences over the direction of a franchise in the midst of a nine-year playoff drought, the Pegulas reversed course in making the abrupt decision to fire Botterill on Tuesday.

It was a stunning move that came three weeks after Kim Pegula told The Associated Press that Botterill would be retained.”

lol yes there’s probably a reason the owners didn’t say “Botterill wouldn’t fire people”. 

We already know the reason is because Botterill wouldn’t cut staff 

[Thorner]

From the Buffalo news re: Botterill

https://12ft.io/proxy

[SABRES 0311]

The KA cop out is it’s not his fault because Buffalo.

[7+6=13]

11 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Read this.  Buffalo local media and the national media are aligned with the thoughts commonly made here at SabreSpace.  

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/sabres-gms-comments-on-no-palm-trees-and-taxes-miss-mark-in-buffalo/

https://thehockeynews.com/news/opinion-players-dont-want-to-go-to-the-sabres-because-they-stink-it-has-nothing-to-do-with-palm-trees-and-taxes

There are hundreds of news clips and tweets like this out there.  Your defense of Pegula and Adams and their plan for the Sabres is misguided and kind of sad.  

What's my defense of Pegula and Adams and their plan for the Sabres?  I just simply think you're nuts for saying the same thing over and over and over.  That's it!

[mjd1001]

29 minutes ago, Thorner said:

From the Buffalo news re: Botterill

https://12ft.io/proxy

One could say that just as firing staff during Covid was to save money, that mandate might have continued to exist for the next couple years under the new GM, whether it was Adams or anyone else, to not spend anywhere close to the cap, make moves that would save the team money.

A lot of theory here, but its pretty likely that if the team wanted to save money and Terry didn't want to spend, that could be part of the reason Adams couldn't (or was directed to) 'find a reason' to trade a disgruntled Eichel and a longer term contract extension, at a higher dollar wasn't offered to Reinhart.  Adams simply was the guy that was operating under those conditions. Had it been a different GM, the same conditions, the same edicts from above, might have existed. They certainly didn't go after any 'bigger name' coaches that they would have to offer more money to after they made a change. No long term high priced guys were brought in. Guys due for raises were often moved out.

Even the Taylor Hall deal was short term and he was moved out pretty quick.

Edited December 9 by mjd1001

[Thorner]

Don’t really think we really need to delve much into theory.

The owner and GMs have all been really bad.

That’s the one easy thing about putting up a run of historical ineptitude. It’s a broad brush, no one’s safe 

[Pimlach]

32 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

What's my defense of Pegula and Adams and their plan for the Sabres?  I just simply think you're nuts for saying the same thing over and over and over.  That's it!

Yes, you do “simply think”.   What do you contribute?  

[GoPuckYourself]

51 minutes ago, Thorner said:

From the Buffalo news re: Botterill

https://12ft.io/proxy

Thanks, this is all I was looking for was some proof. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Why do people think Lindy should be in the front office? He’s In charge of this mess behind the bench right now. He had Adams ear and helped to shape this offseason.

Lindy doesn’t have front office qualifications and no way is he putting up with Pegula’s nonsense.

 

As if Adams could get the players Lindy really wants, like D who can actually play D.  Remember Regier went and added Lydman and had Tallinder and McKee in 2005.  We have no defensemen who can play D at anywhere near the level of those 3 players.

Compare the centers as well - 2005 - Drury, Briere, Connolly, Roy, Gaustad, Hecht, Mair and compare to Thompson, Cozens, McLeod, Krebs, Laffery and Kulich.  

Is it really any wonder this team stinks again.

Edited December 9 by GASabresIUFAN

[Pimlach]

38 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

As if Adams could get the players Lindy really wants, like D who can actually play D.  Remember Regier went and added Lydman and had Tallinder and McKee in 2005.  We have no defensemen who can play D at anywhere near the level of those 3 players.

Compare the centers as well - 2005 - Drury, Briere, Connolly, Roy, Gaustad, Hecht, Mair and compare to Thompson, Cozens, McLeod, Krebs, Laffery and Kulich.  

Is it really any wonder this team stinks again.

So Lindy is Darcy ?  

[Archie Lee]

6 hours ago, Thorner said:

There are veteran GMs with winning track records (if you consider merely making the playoffs winning (and I do)) currently out of jobs. Even a GM position in Buffalo is more attractive than not having one at all, I’d say. The hurdle imo is it being an idea Pegula is actually interested in 

Ok, I figured I would have a look.  NHL.com actually has a sortable listing of all GM's in NHL history. The following is a list of men who were NHL GM's in the past decade (not on an interim basis) who are not currently employed as a GM or Team President.  Also included is their age, career winning %, and the last year they worked as a GM.

Pierre Dorian, 52, .467, 23-24

Jarmo Kekalainen, 58, .528, 23-24

Ken Holland, 69, .622, 23-24 (retired I think)

Ron Hextall, 60, .579, 23-24

Chuck Fletcher, 57, .535, 22-23

Jim Benning, 61, .487, 21-22

Marc Bergevin, 59, .557, 21-22 (Senior Advisor in L.A.)

Doug Wilson, 67, .605, 21-22 (retired I think)

 Bob Murray, 70, .553, 21-22 (retired I think)

John Chayka, 35, .475, 19-20

Ray Shero, 62, .586, 19-20

Dale Tallon, 74, .515, 19-20 (retired, I'm sure)

Peter Chiarelli, 60, .579, 18-19 (VP STL)

Garth Snow, 55, .512, 17-18

Dean Lombardi, 66, .496, 16-17 (VP PHI)

Dave Nonis, 58, .539, 14-15 (VP CAL)

 

No good options in my opinion.  Kekalainen, Hextall, Fletcher, Bergevin, Shero, Chiarelli, and Nonis, would likely get some consideration around the league for vacant positions.  All have significant warts, which is pretty much expected for any unemployed former GM (they would not be former GM's if things had gone well in their last opportunity).

Perhaps interesting, 24 of the league's current GM's are in their first GM role.  Only 8 were a GM with a prior team; of those, only Lamoriello and Waddell were GM's on two prior teams.  

 

 

Edited December 9 by Archie Lee

[GASabresIUFAN]

23 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

So Lindy is Darcy ?  

No, but he obviously knows what this team needs and unlike Adams, Regier was able to get improving trades done, and I bet Lindy has enough respect around the NHL he’d be able to swing deals even without GM experience.

[Stoner]

Why would you entrust someone to run your business then be in their ear on a daily basis?

Does TP ask about callups, senddowns, are we in on (insert name of player on the block)?

Does he ask about power play setups, line combos, starting goalies?

Does he make suggestions? Does he direct KA to do things?

On its face it's hard to argue the calls are a net positive. It's putting your thumb on the scale. It's micromanaging. Most of all my God it has to be annoying to people who know the game (even KA).

Edited December 9 by Stoner

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No, but he obviously knows what this team needs and unlike Adams, Regier was able to get improving trades done, and I bet Lindy has enough respect around the NHL he’d be able to swing deals even without GM experience.

Well I don’t like our center spline either but I doubt a Lindy can make trades and convince players to come here any better than Adams at this point on the season while sitting on a 6 game losing streak.