Hockey Heaven!

[elijah]

Part of me feels like this deserves a thread, the other part of me says .. haven’t we been hearing this forever just for Adams to sit on his hands while we get tamed with ‘internal cap’ rumors?

Feel free to merge if needed, but thought it was a little more worthy than the Around the NHL thread and didn’t see any other thread fitting for it. 

My question for y’all is, what’s the ‘big move’ that would be available? Seems like this type of desperation and urgency would’ve been fitting for the offseason rather than the first 2 months of the season when you’re going to have to sit on your hands for another 30 games until teams are more willing to make moves. 

 

Other reports today indicate the Penguins are willing to maybe send some pieces out

Bunting or Rickard Rakell? 

[Mango]

We’ll trade Tage for Mitts and 2026 and 2026 firsts but also retain all of Thompson and absorb all of Casey’s.

On the trade Kevyn Adams said “Finally we have the players in this locker room to push or team captain and first line center Dylan Cozens to be the absolute “ok-est” he can be”

Edit: It was a joke guys. 

Edited November 14 by Mango

[GASabresIUFAN]

He is probably going to trade for Tyler Myers.  Can't get bigger then him.

[sabremike]

10 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

He is probably going to trade for Tyler Myers.  Can't get bigger then him.

[Ctaeth]

Why now?  Did he seriously believe that 2 years of middling play with these players was going to be fixed overnight with a coaching change?

At this point, I would rather KA not take a big swing because it seems likely we will be left at a significant disadvantage.  Let the next guy make a trade, not the lame duck that has had 4 years to shape this roster and has yet to make significant improvements 

[GASabresIUFAN]

33 minutes ago, Ctaeth said:

Why now?  Did he seriously believe that 2 years of middling play with these players was going to be fixed overnight with a coaching change?

At this point, I would rather KA not take a big swing because it seems likely we will be left at a significant disadvantage.  Let the next guy make a trade, not the lame duck that has had 4 years to shape this roster and has yet to make significant improvements 

You are assuming that Pegula’s yes man is a lame duck.  

[That Aud Smell]

Infuriating, if true (which it presumably is).

Further proof that Adams is a rube — an under qualified Opie.

[triumph_communes]

Uhoh. I’m scared

[Flashsabre]

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Infuriating, if true (which it presumably is).

Further proof that Adams is a rube — an under qualified Opie.

Infuriating that they are looking to make a trade?

[mjd1001]

25 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Infuriating that they are looking to make a trade?

There is a narrative among some (many) posters that Adams is unqualified, should be fired immediately, and that any news that comes out supports that. Sabres want t to make a trade?  It proves Adams is bad because he should have done it earlier. Sabres don't make a trade? Its still Adams because obviously the team needs one.  

[steveoath]

doing something big

[Taro T]

10 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

There is a narrative among some (many) posters that Adams is unqualified, should be fired immediately, and that any news that comes out supports that. Sabres want t to make a trade?  It proves Adams is bad because he should have done it earlier. Sabres don't make a trade? Its still Adams because obviously the team needs one.  

Yup.  We're entering "evil genius" AND "dumbest GM EVAH" territory.  (But as long as Gord Stellick and Garth Snow aren't scrubbed from history, at absolute worst he can only be 3rd from the bottom.  And that's not even including all the late 60's and 70's GMs that thought trading with Sam Pollock could somehow work out for them.)

[Doohicksie]

19 minutes ago, steveoath said:

doing something big

[LGR4GM]

46 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

There is a narrative among some (many) posters that Adams is unqualified, should be fired immediately, and that any news that comes out supports that. Sabres want to make a trade?  It proves Adams is bad because he should have done it earlier. Sabres don't make a trade? Its still Adams because obviously the team needs one.  

Wanting to make a trade is the equivalent of wanting a 100million dollars. No one cares unless you do it. "I want Connor McDavid" ... who gives a flying F. 

You juxtapose want with don't. Want is the intention of doing something, don't implies you decided not to do something. My point is if the Sabres don't do anything, them wanting to do something is irrelevant. Hockey is a zero sum game. 

[JohnC]

29 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

There is a narrative among some (many) posters that Adams is unqualified, should be fired immediately, and that any news that comes out supports that. Sabres want t to make a trade?  It proves Adams is bad because he should have done it earlier. Sabres don't make a trade? Its still Adams because obviously the team needs one.  

I'm not going to get involved in whether KA is qualified or not as a GM. What I can comfortably say that as a GM he is mediocre (at best). He's had more than enough time to implement his mostly "draft and develop" rebuild approach and get to the stage where his constructed team is seriously competing. By any measure (record and performance) this team has not reached that basic stage. I'm sad to say that but what is obvious is obvious. 

A good GM doesn't simply add players. His job is to construct a roster that can be molded into a good team. It's more than basic bricklaying.  It's about getting the right players who support the developing players and elevate them.  

The standard for this franchise is so low that when it wins three games in a row many fans get deluded into believing that this team has broken through and has crossed the threshold of being more than respectable. Then the inevitable relapse brings the fans back to the dismal world of reality. 

I've used this metaphor on a number of occasions so excuse me for the redundancy. KA is a checkers player in a game with chess players. The rumor that he is considering make a big deal makes some people excited. Not I. It's his freaking job! When your team is stuck in the muck of generational mediocrity it is incumbent on your somnolent GM to wake up and try something else to alter the meandering course. It's his freaking job!

[Demoted]

Until Adam's does something this is just the usual yearly "please keep buying our tickets"

Edited November 14 by Demoted

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

Infuriating that they are looking to make a trade?

Infuriating that he's trying to make hockey trades in-season. It's (almost certainly) too late, Opie. The time to get this sh1t done was this past offseason.

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

There is a narrative among some (many) posters that Adams is unqualified

Is there a competing narrative that he's qualified?

Do tell, if so.

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

any news that comes out supports that [Adams is unqualified and should be fired].

I take things as they come. Assess each situation on its own footing and merits. The rumour mill saying that Adams is eager to make a big move in November has me #smdh as the kids used to say.

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Sabres want t to make a trade?  It proves Adams is bad because he should have done it earlier. Sabres don't make a trade? Its still Adams because obviously the team needs one.  

I won't bash Adams for failing to make a meaningful (and helpful) in-season hockey trade. Because as far as I'm aware, those generally don't exist.

I also respect the pool of hockey knowledge here. If there are examples of such trades from the past, I'd love to be reminded of them. (But be prepared for me to rejoin: Those are exceptions that prove the rule.)

49 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Yup.  We're entering "evil genius" AND "dumbest GM EVAH" territory.  (But as long as Gord Stellick and Garth Snow aren't scrubbed from history, at absolute worst he can only be 3rd from the bottom.  And that's not even including all the late 60's and 70's GMs that thought trading with Sam Pollock could somehow work out for them.)

Fair play on other GMs who've been fully turbl.

To be clear: I haven't said Adams is the worst GM ever. I have been stuck on - and pissed off by - just how flipping unqualified he was when he was anointed -- errr, appointed to the post.

I also remain intrigued by the idea that there are some who view Adams as an "evil genius." 

Whomst among us thinks Adams is an evil genius? (Or something close to it.)

Whomst, I ask!

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

.Is there a competing narrative that he's qualified?

Do tell, if so.

 

I could pick individual moves that seem to be working out, but that isn't my point.

It doesn't MATTER if Adams is good or not, because he is a puppet for Pegula. End of story for me. I do not know if he is good or not, because I believe everything is run by, and approved or rejected by Pegula.  Adams has no autonomy.

We know Botts got fired because he would not do Pegula's bidding (see the articles written about that, there were many). 

My whole point is why fire Adams, you are only going to get the exact same thing. Adams MAY be terrible as a GM, he may be GREAT, but we cannot know while Pegula is playing the wizard-behind-the-curtain, and if Adams does get fired, it will be nothing more than a 'sacrifice to the masses' demanding change, and he will be replaced with a new person who has the exact same job guidelines and restrictions.

Edited November 14 by mjd1001

[Pimlach]

Yes an in-season trade or two is needed to meet the goal of playoffs.   Barring a major turnaround in play, it’s the only way to get there.  I don’t see a serious wildcard contender with this exact roster,  the team is still a fringe playoff contender.   

They started the season thin at center, lacking enough top 6 firepower, and lacking a steady top 4 defender.  

All the off season hopes and dreams, or shall I say assumptions, are turning false - (1) Cozens will be a viable 2C; (2)  Quinn is a top 6 winger, (3) Samuelsson can be a steady top 4; (4) Byram as a difference maker with 4OA pedigree; and (5) fix the bottom 6 and we will improve overall and be harder to play against.  

None of it is happening.  Cozens is still working hard and would be a fine 3rd line forward. Quinn forgot to get stronger and is clearly not up to a second line role.  Muel was given an “A” and a demotion down to the 3rd pair, he played poorly, and then predictably goes to IR.  Still don’t know why we have Byram, he has some good moments, but will he even be extended and paid by the Sabres after the season?  

Fixing the bottom 6 -  Did it happen?  Well, our 3rd line is now better than the 2nd line, but overall it feels like a net negative despite good contributions from newcomers McLeod and Zucker.  The fourth line is a bit better than last year too but not enough to make any significant impact.. 

Goaltending has a question mark too.  UPL was coming on and winning some games for us but is now hurt.  Is Levi ready to be a good backup?   We will find out.  

So, do we really want Adams orchestrating major trades of large magnitude during the season, and while in desperation? 

Looking at his body of work thus far, I say no.  Maybe he can do it but my confidence in him went away last off season and is not yet returning.

Edited November 14 by Pimlach

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

All the off season hopes and dreams, or shall I say assumptions, are turning false - (1) Cozens will be a viable 2C; (2)  Quinn is a top 6 winger, (3) Samuelsson can be a steady top 4; (4) Byram as a difference maker with 4OA pedigree; and (5) fix the bottom 6 and we will improve overall and be harder to play against.  

 

Want to point out the entire fanbase here all said this was going to be a big question mark and needed bolstering in case any of them fell through. 

6 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Quinn forgot to get stronger and is clearly not up to a second line role. 

Quinn's strength isn't the big issue. He isn't skating and he is being passive in all his plays. 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

It doesn't MATTER if Adams is good or not

I was (am) asking if there's a competing narrative that Adams was/is qualified for the position he holds. Not whether he's been good at the job.

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

It doesn't MATTER if Adams is good or not, because he is a puppet for Pegula. 

Also, I agree with this.

[mjd1001]

8 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I was (am) asking if there's a competing narrative that Adams was/is qualified for the position he holds. Not whether he's been good at the job.

Also, I agree with this.

To answer your question directly, there are bad moves he made but some good ones:  The Tage contract.  Zucker signing.  The McLeod trade looks good to some of us right now. Drafting Benson as late as he did.  Acquiring Greenway.  Removing Skinner from the Roster (he has 3 goals and 6 points in 16 games in Edmonton, looks like he hit that 'age' wall).  

Many of those moves were not 'big time' moves that Pegula would have wanted a huge say in (Zucker, McLeod, probably Benson and Greenway).  If Pegula were to remove himself from the equation, and just be an owner who is a fan-from-the-stands and takes in the revenue and signs the checks only, I think there is a CHANCE Adams might be able to make bigger moves that would be better than what needs to have input from Pegula right now.  I understand many don't agree with this, but that is the narrative I think is most likely to be true.  I think if the hockey guys, Ruff, Adams, and the analytics dept were able to make 100% of the moves and Pegula never entered the room, this team would be making much better decisions.

Edited November 14 by mjd1001

[mjd1001]

47 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

 

They started the season thin at center, lacking enough top 6 firepower, and lacking a steady top 4 defender.  

All the off season hopes and dreams, or shall I say assumptions, are turning false - (1) Cozens will be a viable 2C; (2)  Quinn is a top 6 winger, (3) Samuelsson can be a steady top 4; (4) Byram as a difference maker with 4OA pedigree; and (5) fix the bottom 6 and we will improve overall and be harder to play against.  

 

To be fair, to many of us the #1 offseason 'hope and dream' was that Tage would return to form as a 40+ goal guy.  That one did happen.  Many people disagreed with it....so it is unfair to say ALL of the offseason hopes/dreams/assumptions are false.

[That Aud Smell]

7 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

To answer your question directly, there are bad moves he made but some good ones: 

I think we're talking past each other. I'm not talking about his job performance. In response to something you'd said (about there being a narrative that Adams was/is unqualified), I was asking about his qualifications for the job. Which I understand to be a separate issue from job performance.

[DarthEbriate]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

... When your team is stuck in the muck of generational mediocrity it is ...

Even with loser points factoring into Points % on the season, we can only wish this team was mediocre over the last 13 years.

2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

It doesn't MATTER if Adams is good or not, because he is a puppet for Pegula.

Always two there are, a master and an apprentice.

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

Infuriating that he's trying to make hockey trades in-season. It's (almost certainly) too late, Opie. The time to get this sh1t done was this past offseason.

Yup; and the 2022-23 trade deadline when they had the best odds by Points % to make the playoffs of the competing teams. And the 2023 offseason to remake the bottom 6 (no Girgs/Okposo) and get a Zucker-like player to help push the team further. And 2024 to further refine with a true top-6. And a 1A/1B goalie to pair with Ullmark and/or Luukkonen the entire tenure. 

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

I also remain intrigued by the idea that there are some who view Adams as an "evil genius." 

Whomst among us thinks Adams is an evil genius? (Or something close to it.)

Whomst, I ask!

The evil part: yes. The genius part is what I'm having trouble with. But... he did manage to win the ear of Darth Pegulas the Wise, enact his coup, and make himself into an Emperor NHL GM.