This situation is toxic...

[JP51]

I cannot imagine being a member of this country club... the fans are not showing up and the ones that do boo you, the GM and owner are clueless, not even a sniff at the playoffs in 14 years... and if someday they do make it a sure 4-1 first round exit because they are not built for playoff hockey, a team that doesnt stand up for one another because they lack both the will and capacity, They soul suck and destroy talent beating the fight out of anyone who actually wants to play tough and if they do... trade them away...  How can anyone really want to come to this cesspool... the team is hamstrung, they can even trade for players ... they simply refuse to come... this is a problem that ultimately cannot be solved under the current regime... someone on the outside needs to see hope, a plan, a future... instead you have insidious toxicity and a vicious circular self fulfilling soul cannibalization that pervades this team...  To me its that bad.

[mjd1001]

2 minutes ago, JP51 said:

I cannot imagine being a member of this country club... the fans are not showing up and the ones that do boo you, the GM and owner are clueless, not even a sniff at the playoffs in 14 years... and if someday they do make it a sure 4-1 first round exit because they are not built for playoff hockey, a team that doesnt stand up for one another because they lack both the will and capacity, They soul suck and destroy talent beating the fight out of anyone who actually wants to play tough and if they do... trade them away...  How can anyone really want to come to this cesspool... the team is hamstrung, they can even trade for players ... they simply refuse to come... this is a problem that ultimately cannot be solved under the current regime... someone on the outside needs to see hope, a plan, a future... instead you have insidious toxicity and a vicious circular self fulfilling soul cannibalization that pervades this team...  To me its that bad.

The toxic part of it seems to be coming from the fans toward the team, and the team/organization/owner doesn't seem to care, or at least wants to hide from it.  And as I say the toxic part is coming from the fans, that is no shot at the fans, it is well deserved and if the fans WEREN'T thinking/acting that way, it would be a bigger problem.  The team deserves it.

What would make me feel better (other than winning right now?)

1.) Pegula shows up at a press conference, takes questions, and basically says in the open the situation isn't acceptable and he will be available on a somewhat regular basis to talk (at least show he cares)

2.) Cozens and Quinn.  Sit them. I don't mean for one game I mean for a while. I'm pretty sure you have a handful of guys in Rochester that will play better than Quinn, and while you may not have guys in Rochester that will have an overall better 'ice presence' than Cozens, his play and production is just not acceptable. It would be a sign, a signal to fans. Will sitting Cozens long term help the team win? Maybe not, but right now I'm at the point with this team that the "message" is more imprortant than a couple more points that will insure you miss the playoffs by 8 points instead of 15 points. 

3.) You are going to make unsold, at least 300 level tickets available for $10 each until the team makes the playoffs. For those who already bought tickets, you give them freebees or a partial refund.  Will the team not get revenue sharing because of it? probably not, but Pegula, this is YOUR fault more than the fans fault. Pegula should NOT expect, at this point, to keep making his money at the expense of the fans.

4.) while you are at it, cut the concession prices in half.  Nothing like going to a game and getting taken advantage of to watch this product for going on a decade-and-a-half.

If you aren't going to win, the above would be a start for me. 

Will any of that get done? I doubt it. and why would I want it done? To show that Pegula cares for the fans who support his team and will do things he isn't comfortable with to show it.

[eman]

13 minutes ago, JP51 said:

I cannot imagine being a member of this country club... the fans are not showing up and the ones that do boo you, the GM and owner are clueless, not even a sniff at the playoffs in 14 years... and if someday they do make it a sure 4-1 first round exit because they are not built for playoff hockey, a team that doesnt stand up for one another because they lack both the will and capacity, They soul suck and destroy talent beating the fight out of anyone who actually wants to play tough and if they do... trade them away...  How can anyone really want to come to this cesspool... the team is hamstrung, they can even trade for players ... they simply refuse to come... this is a problem that ultimately cannot be solved under the current regime... someone on the outside needs to see hope, a plan, a future... instead you have insidious toxicity and a vicious circular self fulfilling soul cannibalization that pervades this team...  To me its that bad.

I think you have absolutely nailed it. The GM must go very very soon or there is no hope turning this franchise around.

[Pimlach]

I enjoyed the “insidious toxicity and a vicious circular self fulfilling soul cannibalization that pervades this team” part the best.  

 

Good stuff !!

 

Edited December 4 by Pimlach

[Archie Lee]

20 minutes ago, JP51 said:

I cannot imagine being a member of this country club... the fans are not showing up and the ones that do boo you, the GM and owner are clueless, not even a sniff at the playoffs in 14 years... and if someday they do make it a sure 4-1 first round exit because they are not built for playoff hockey, a team that doesnt stand up for one another because they lack both the will and capacity, They soul suck and destroy talent beating the fight out of anyone who actually wants to play tough and if they do... trade them away...  How can anyone really want to come to this cesspool... the team is hamstrung, they can even trade for players ... they simply refuse to come... this is a problem that ultimately cannot be solved under the current regime... someone on the outside needs to see hope, a plan, a future... instead you have insidious toxicity and a vicious circular self fulfilling soul cannibalization that pervades this team...  To me its that bad.

Epic.

[JP51]

7 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

The toxic part of it seems to be coming from the fans toward the team, and the team/organization/owner doesn't seem to care, or at least wants to hide from it.  And as I say the toxic part is coming from the fans, that is no shot at the fans, it is well deserved and if the fans WEREN'T thinking/acting that way, it would be a bigger problem.  The team deserves it.

What would make me feel better (other than winning right now?)

1.) Pegula shows up at a press conference, takes questions, and basically says in the open the situation isn't acceptable and he will be available on a somewhat regular basis to talk (at least show he cares)

2.) Cozens and Quinn.  Sit them. I don't mean for one game I mean for a while. I'm pretty sure you have a handful of guys in Rochester that will play better than Quinn, and while you may not have guys in Rochester that will have an overall better 'ice presence' than Cozens, his play and production is just not acceptable. It would be a sign, a signal to fans. Will sitting Cozens long term help the team win? Maybe not, but right now I'm at the point with this team that the "message" is more imprortant than a couple more points that will insure you miss the playoffs by 8 points instead of 15 points. 

3.) You are going to make unsold, at least 300 level tickets available for $10 each until the team makes the playoffs. For those who already bought tickets, you give them freebees or a partial refund.  Will the team not get revenue sharing because of it? probably not, but Pegula, this is YOUR fault more than the fans fault. Pegula should NOT expect, at this point, to keep making his money at the expense of the fans.

4.) while you are at it, cut the concession prices in half.  Nothing like going to a game and getting taken advantage of to watch this product for going on a decade-and-a-half.

If you aren't going to win, the above would be a start for me. 

Will any of that get done? I doubt it. and why would I want it done? To show that Pegula cares for the fans who support his team and will do things he isn't comfortable with to show it.

Oh, I think the fans (the ones that remain and care like us) absolutely are a toxic catalyst... in fact, I might almost say the fans infusion of toxicity is a positive in so much as they care and are demanding accountabliity... but regardless of who is the most toxic that locker room, those players have got to feel radio active its so bad... and if they don't they have just turned apathetic and dont care anymore and are just doing their jail sentence... and I suppose that is toxic in an of itself... I agree 100% with your 4 point analysis... 100%! 

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I enjoyed the “insidious toxicity and a vicious circular self fulfilling soul cannibalization that pervades this team” part the best.  

 

Good stuff !!

 

I really felt that one lol 🙂 

[Believer]

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

The toxic part of it seems to be coming from the fans toward the team, and the team/organization/owner doesn't seem to care, or at least wants to hide from it.  And as I say the toxic part is coming from the fans, that is no shot at the fans, it is well deserved and if the fans WEREN'T thinking/acting that way, it would be a bigger problem.  The team deserves it.

What would make me feel better (other than winning right now?)

1.) Pegula shows up at a press conference, takes questions, and basically says in the open the situation isn't acceptable and he will be available on a somewhat regular basis to talk (at least show he cares)

2.) Cozens and Quinn.  Sit them. I don't mean for one game I mean for a while. I'm pretty sure you have a handful of guys in Rochester that will play better than Quinn, and while you may not have guys in Rochester that will have an overall better 'ice presence' than Cozens, his play and production is just not acceptable. It would be a sign, a signal to fans. Will sitting Cozens long term help the team win? Maybe not, but right now I'm at the point with this team that the "message" is more imprortant than a couple more points that will insure you miss the playoffs by 8 points instead of 15 points. 

3.) You are going to make unsold, at least 300 level tickets available for $10 each until the team makes the playoffs. For those who already bought tickets, you give them freebees or a partial refund.  Will the team not get revenue sharing because of it? probably not, but Pegula, this is YOUR fault more than the fans fault. Pegula should NOT expect, at this point, to keep making his money at the expense of the fans.

4.) while you are at it, cut the concession prices in half.  Nothing like going to a game and getting taken advantage of to watch this product for going on a decade-and-a-half.

If you aren't going to win, the above would be a start for me. 

Will any of that get done? I doubt it. and why would I want it done? To show that Pegula cares for the fans who support his team and will do things he isn't comfortable with to show it.

1 and 2 for sure. 

Pegula should speak at a postgame presser on the record at least every couple weeks. Adams as well.

Promote Murray, among others. Will never be NHL regular, but plays hard who knows the kids. Sets an example. Send a message.

Like your other ideas as well.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

toxic? I think it is an embarrassment!! 13 year of no playoffs with 1/2 the league making it is horribly embarrassing!!! Won't change though,  and we are  happy with that, just like all the leadership, management and ownership. 

[Archie Lee]

12 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

The toxic part of it seems to be coming from the fans toward the team, and the team/organization/owner doesn't seem to care, or at least wants to hide from it.  And as I say the toxic part is coming from the fans, that is no shot at the fans, it is well deserved and if the fans WEREN'T thinking/acting that way, it would be a bigger problem.  The team deserves it.

What would make me feel better (other than winning right now?)

1.) Pegula shows up at a press conference, takes questions, and basically says in the open the situation isn't acceptable and he will be available on a somewhat regular basis to talk (at least show he cares)

2.) Cozens and Quinn.  Sit them. I don't mean for one game I mean for a while. I'm pretty sure you have a handful of guys in Rochester that will play better than Quinn, and while you may not have guys in Rochester that will have an overall better 'ice presence' than Cozens, his play and production is just not acceptable. It would be a sign, a signal to fans. Will sitting Cozens long term help the team win? Maybe not, but right now I'm at the point with this team that the "message" is more imprortant than a couple more points that will insure you miss the playoffs by 8 points instead of 15 points. 

3.) You are going to make unsold, at least 300 level tickets available for $10 each until the team makes the playoffs. For those who already bought tickets, you give them freebees or a partial refund.  Will the team not get revenue sharing because of it? probably not, but Pegula, this is YOUR fault more than the fans fault. Pegula should NOT expect, at this point, to keep making his money at the expense of the fans.

4.) while you are at it, cut the concession prices in half.  Nothing like going to a game and getting taken advantage of to watch this product for going on a decade-and-a-half.

If you aren't going to win, the above would be a start for me. 

Will any of that get done? I doubt it. and why would I want it done? To show that Pegula cares for the fans who support his team and will do things he isn't comfortable with to show it.

RE: #1.  I think this would be a disaster.  Pegula just doesn't have ability to speak extemporaneously.  The outcome of him taking questions would not be comforting. It does speak though to the need to have someone in a public-facing role who can do just that.  At this point it isn't Adams.  No reasonable person could take Adams seriously at this point. The hierarchy doesn't have anyone who could credibly take on that responsibility.

[Carmel Corn]

You cannot easily neutralize something once it becomes Toxic….it has to be disposed of instead.  Our so-called “core” is weak and not ready for leadership.  Bite the bullet and trade them away for pennies on the dollar to get them out of here.  The Bills traded Diggs at a high cost and it seems to have worked out.  Rebuild a new core with MEN (not boys) who are natural leaders (not ones simply annointed to be).

Oh….and fire GMKA yesterday to send another message.

BTW - somewhere Donny Meatballs is sitting back with a fat wallet and a huge smile on his face.

Edited December 4 by Carmel Corn

[JP51]

2 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

RE: #1.  I think this would be a disaster.  Pegula just doesn't have ability to speak extemporaneously.  The outcome of him taking questions would not be comforting. It does speak though to the need to have someone in a public-facing role who can do just that.  At this point it isn't Adams.  No reasonable person could take Adams seriously at this point. The hierarchy doesn't have anyone who could credibly take on that responsibility.

You are right he is bad at it... but FTLOG he needs to at least stand up and say he's pissed and this is unacceptable ... otherwise we can only assume he is perfectly fine with it and it is totally acceptable to him. And to your point, allowing his incompetent GM and orchestrator of this particular version of ineptitude isnt good enough. 

1 minute ago, Carmel Corn said:

You cannot easily neutralize something once it becomes Toxic….it has to be disposed of instead.  Our so-called “core” is weak and not ready for leadership.  Bite the bullet and trade them away for pennies on the dollar to get them out of here.  The Bills traded Diggs at a high cost and it seems to have worked out.  Rebuild a new core with MEN (not boys) who are natural leaders (not ones simply annointed to be).

Oh….and fire GMKA yesterday to send another message.

BTW - somewhere Donny Meatballs is sitting back with a fat walled and a huge smile on his face.

Totally agree... it needs to be a purge and a complete professional cleaning of anything having to do with this current farce... players, scouts, GM, garbage cans, concession stands... you name it... 

[mjd1001]

28 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Totally agree... it needs to be a purge and a complete professional cleaning of anything having to do with this current farce... players, scouts, GM, garbage cans, concession stands... you name it... 

I'm not saying you are wrong but......so we are purging everyone and every thing BUT Pegula, and HE is the one in charge of picking the people below him?  And if that DID work out, maybe we could hope for the playoffs in another 4-5 years from now?

Not saying it wouldn't be the best answer, but wow, that would be depressing.

If they did that and that extends this droubt to close to 20 years (It likely WOULD) Can you imagine those of us who had a Toddler in the house who was just about to enter 1st grade the last time the team made the playoffs, and the next time they make it it might not be until they are adults, out of college and possibly married with their own kids on the way.

Edited December 4 by mjd1001

[JP51]

10 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm not saying you are wrong but......so we are purging everyone and every thing BUT Pegula, and HE is the one in charge of picking the people below him?  And if that DID work out, maybe we could hope for the playoffs in another 4-5 years from now?

Not saying it wouldn't be the best answer, but wow, that would be depressing.

If they did that and that extends this droubt to close to 20 years (It likely WOULD) Can you imagine those of us who had a Toddler in the house who was just about to enter 1st grade the last time the team made the playoffs, and the next time they make it it might not be until they are adults, out of college and possibly married with their own kids on the way.

Oh there are no good answers... dont know if you remember the Spin Doctors "lil Miss" where he said "and you do your brain surgery with a monkey wrench" Absent of Pegula selling the team the best hope I personally feel we have is a complete purge and hope to get lucky with a GM. I dont know what else you can do... but this basic core... this drafting... this philosophy is just not working and it has produced the same results year after year.. and one more thing LOL... are we as a fan base not sick of... "they have a great group of prospects!" yet where are they... they cant even crack the line up with this bunch... and in fact... they arent even the gritty type of sandpaper players we need...  and those that do crack the line up like Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, are literally regressing before our eyes with this regime.. they are learning to play soft... and lack luster... like literally the team has gone metaphorically septic... 

[Archie Lee]

7 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

You cannot easily neutralize something once it becomes Toxic….it has to be disposed of instead.  Our so-called “core” is weak and not ready for leadership.  Bite the bullet and trade them away for pennies on the dollar to get them out of here.  The Bills traded Diggs at a high cost and it seems to have worked out.  Rebuild a new core with MEN (not boys) who are natural leaders (not ones simply annointed to be).

Oh….and fire GMKA yesterday to send another message.

BTW - somewhere Donny Meatballs is sitting back with a fat wallet and a huge smile on his face.

I understand this sentiment, but think it would be a disaster. Gutting the youngest roster in the league would make the Sabres the laughing stock of pro-sports (ok...maybe they already are...but, I think it would make them an even bigger laughing-stock). I think the current roster and overall talent pool is very salvageable.  Additions/subtractions/changes are needed, but there does not need to be a sell-off.

I remember the last days of the Tim Murray era.  I was definitely in a group of fans who wanted a new GM. I thought that Murray had done reasonably well to remake the roster, but someone more subtle in their approach was needed to fine-tune what was missing.  Botterill, as it turned out, was a disaster. The extent to which Pegula impacted his decisions will likely never be known, but his coaching hires and roster decisions set the franchise back years. The core of O'Reilly, Eichel, Reinhart, Foligno, Rodrigues, Mittelstadt, Risto, McCabe, Ullmark, that Botterill had at the onset of his tenure, with some obvious needed adjustments (including a worthy head coach), would not have reached contender status until maybe 21-22 or 22-23.  The playoffs were attainable earlier, but methodically bold moves and top-level leadership were needed to take the team to the next levels. That's what we need now.  We don't need someone who is going to tear it down.  We need someone who will identify what is missing and go about intelligently and aggressively fixing what is wrong.   

[JP51]

4 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I understand this sentiment, but think it would be a disaster. Gutting the youngest roster in the league would make the Sabres the laughing stock of pro-sports (ok...maybe they already are...but, I think it would make them an even bigger laughing-stock). I think the current roster and overall talent pool is very salvageable.  Additions/subtractions/changes are needed, but there does not need to be a sell-off.

I remember the last days of the Tim Murray era.  I was definitely in a group of fans who wanted a new GM. I thought that Murray had done reasonably well to remake the roster, but someone more subtle in their approach was needed to fine-tune what was missing.  Botterill, as it turned out, was a disaster. The extent to which Pegula impacted his decisions will likely never be known, but his coaching hires and roster decisions set the franchise back years. The core of O'Reilly, Eichel, Reinhart, Foligno, Rodrigues, Mittelstadt, Risto, McCabe, Ullmark, that Botterill had at the onset of his tenure, with some obvious needed adjustments (including a worthy head coach), would not have reached contender status until maybe 21-22 or 22-23.  The playoffs were attainable earlier, but methodically bold moves and top-level leadership were needed to take the team to the next levels. That's what we need now.  We don't need someone who is going to tear it down.  We need someone who will identify what is missing and go about intelligently and aggressively fixing what is wrong.   

Oh I think you have to cut deep... I will say this... get a new GM that understands the game and let them decide how to rebuild... I do not in anyway shape or form want Adams doing any more to this roster... maybe a new GM with a plan sees value in the current roster... maybe they blow it up... probably a bit of both... as for laughing stock, I get it... but really, how much more can we be laughed at then we already are... i think the biggest fail would be to continue on as we have with the same core and leadership from the top down... but dont get me wrong, I get what you are saying... its gonna be hard to admit that Adams has set this team back 5 years and we have to start over.... again... 

[mjd1001]

53 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I understand this sentiment, but think it would be a disaster. Gutting the youngest roster in the league would make the Sabres the laughing stock of pro-sports (ok...maybe they already are...but, I think it would make them an even bigger laughing-stock). I think the current roster and overall talent pool is very salvageable.  Additions/subtractions/changes are needed, but there does not need to be a sell-off.

 

Deep down when I take emotion out of it, I agree with you.  

Despite what others think, I think the Defense of this team is pretty good/good enough.  Now, they SHOULD be playing better. My top 2 issues on the Defense are: 1.) Samuelsson. It looked like at one point he was going to be a top 50 stay-at-home rock back there. He isn't available and he is nothing of the sort. 2.) Dahlin. He's the best D-man on this team overall, but 1.5 years ago he looked to be on his way to being elite, Norris level. Hes good, but you aren't paying him and didn't draft him #1 overall to be 'good'. He needs to control the game from the back end and he isn't doing that.  Clifton I'm happy with as a 3rd pair, 15 minutes per game at the most guy. Power has HUGE up and down games, but I'm fine with his 'progress'.  Bryram isn't a perfect defender but I'd be happy with him extended.

Forwards are an issue. Cozens and Quinn are the 2 players most responsible for this team not being a playoff spot right now.  As I mentioned other places, its not just their lack of production. They aren't producing. They are making more mistakes without the puck than ANY other 2 players on the team. And that lack of production is coming with them taking up Power play time and getting 55-60% offensive zone starts.  They are the 2 players most responsible for sinking the team.

Tuch is not an issue now, but going forward, I think you need to think long and hard about how much you pay him and for how long when his deal is up at the end of next year. Right now you are getting 'peak' Alex Tuch. That is a good player. Not a great one.  When his next deal starts, he's going to be on the downside of his career.

Tage, for all his faults and injuries, is worth every dollar you are paying him at $7m per year. If you can sign Peterka for less than that, I think he is well worth it. Benson is an interesting one to me.  Many here love his game. Many here say he is the only one who shows up night to night. But, EVENTUALLY I need more production from him, and while it seems the refs have it out for him, some of the penalties he takes are really really dumb.

A purge may not be required, but what is required are move RIGHT NOW to make this team better.  You can't get to the point before January 1st where you are basically writing the season off because you are so far out of it and looking foward to 'maybe' playoffs in the spring of 2026.  Because right now if they don't fix things, our best hope as fans will be to look foward to MAYBE seeing a playoff game in 2026.

 

46 minutes ago, JP51 said:

as for laughing stock, I get it... but really, how much more can we be laughed at then we already are... 

If you listen to 590 out of Toronto (the radio station in North America that probably focuses on hockey as much as anywhere), the Sabres are 50% laughing stock, and 50% irrelevant.  The thing is when they get brought up, both of those things are brought up at the same time.  

Over the decade plus of the drought, the hosts and 'insiders' were never at the level with those 2 things with the Sabres that they are now. Around the league, the overall opinion of the Buffalo Sabres I think is as low as its ever been.  Even when they team was taking, when the team was as bad as they were in the Dahlin Draft year, at least the opinion around the league was 'in a few years, they will have enough talent they will be good'.  Just 2 seaons ago Elliote Friedman said on their show something like "Buffalo is going to be really hard to handle with Dahlin, Power, and Samuelsson back there really soon"   

Now, nothing. No comments like that.  This team just isn't on anyones radar anymore as a threat this season or anytime in the near future.

Edited December 4 by mjd1001

[Archie Lee]

46 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Oh I think you have to cut deep... I will say this... get a new GM that understands the game and let them decide how to rebuild... I do not in anyway shape or form want Adams doing any more to this roster... maybe a new GM with a plan sees value in the current roster... maybe they blow it up... probably a bit of both... as for laughing stock, I get it... but really, how much more can we be laughed at then we already are... i think the biggest fail would be to continue on as we have with the same core and leadership from the top down... but dont get me wrong, I get what you are saying... its gonna be hard to admit that Adams has set this team back 5 years and we have to start over.... again... 

I just don't think the word rebuild applies.  I'm not suggesting that we should be happy with our 91 and 84 point seasons that preceded this year, but teams that are amongst the youngest in the league and that post seasons with those point totals, are in need of enhancements, leadership, next-level coaching, etc.; they don't need a tear-down.

The Sabres had an opportunity this past off-season to make meaningful change.  There were multiple coaches available with multiple seasons of recent success.  They had cap-space and prospect/draft capital that made making additions easier than it would ever be for an organization that is not currently a desired destination for players.  They squandered this opportunity on middling bottom-six players and a nostalgia coaching hire.  The good news is that Adams's general roster timidness has left them without any truly disastrous contracts (some will disagree), and he didn't extend Peterka, Quinn or Byram to big-deals prematurely. There will be lots of cap space and capital available this coming off-season, if anyone is given the authority to utilize it.

 

35 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Deep down when I take emotion out of it, I agree with you.  

Despite what others think, I think the Defense of this team is pretty good/good enough.  Now, they SHOULD be playing better. My top 2 issues on the Defense are: 1.) Samuelsson. It looked like at one point he was going to be a top 50 stay-at-home rock back there. He isn't available and he is nothing of the sort. 2.) Dahlin. He's the best D-man on this team overall, but 1.5 years ago he looked to be on his way to being elite, Norris level. Hes good, but you aren't paying him and didn't draft him #1 overall to be 'good'. He needs to control the game from the back end and he isn't doing that.  Clifton I'm happy with as a 3rd pair, 15 minutes per game at the most guy. Power has HUGE up and down games, but I'm fine with his 'progress'.  Bryson isn't a perfect defender but I'd be happy with him extended.

Forwards are an issue. Cozens and Quinn are the 2 players most responsible for this team not being a playoff spot right now.  As I mentioned other places, its not just their lack of production. They aren't producing. They are making more mistakes without the puck than ANY other 2 players on the team. And that lack of production is coming with them taking up Power play time and getting 55-60% offensive zone starts.  They are the 2 players most responsible for sinking the team.

Tuch is not an issue now, but going forward, I think you need to think long and hard about how much you pay him and for how long when his deal is up at the end of next year. Right now you are getting 'peak' Alex Tuch. That is a good player. Not a great one.  When his next deal starts, he's going to be on the downside of his career.

Tage, for all his faults and injuries, is worth every dollar you are paying him at $7m per year. If you can sign Peterka for less than that, I think he is well worth it. Benson is an interesting one to me.  Many here love his game. Many here say he is the only one who shows up night to night. But, EVENTUALLY I need more production from him, and while it seems the refs have it out for him, some of the penalties he takes are really really dumb.

A purge may not be required, but what is required are move RIGHT NOW to make this team better.  You can't get to the point before January 1st where you are basically writing the season off because you are so far out of it and looking foward to 'maybe' playoffs in the spring of 2026.  Because right now if they don't fix things, our best hope as fans will be to look foward to MAYBE seeing a playoff game in 2026.

These are all good points and I largely agree.  I'm not making an excuse for Adams with this, but there is next to zero chance that the Sabres make a meaningful deal before mid-February.  Right now there are 16 teams holding down playoff spots and another 11 who are within a 3-game winning streak (or less) of changing places with one or two of those playoff teams.  All of these teams have a need or needs that could be addressed through trade...and yet, there are no trades.  The time to have made meaningful roster moves was in the draft/free agency window.  Adams missed the opportunity.  The next opportunity comes at the trade-deadline window.  Right now, we are trending to that being too late.

[mjd1001]

12 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I just don't think the word rebuild applies.  I'm not suggesting that we should be happy with our 91 and 84 point seasons that preceded this year, but teams that are amongst the youngest in the league and that post seasons with those point totals, are in need of enhancements, leadership, next-level coaching, etc.; they don't need a tear-down.

The Sabres had an opportunity this past off-season to make meaningful change.  There were multiple coaches available with multiple seasons of recent success.  They had cap-space and prospect/draft capital that made making additions easier than it would ever be for an organization that is not currently a desired destination for players.  They squandered this opportunity on middling bottom-six players and a nostalgia coaching hire.  The good news is that Adams's general roster timidness has left them without any truly disastrous contracts (some will disagree), and he didn't extend Peterka, Quinn or Byram to big-deals prematurely. There will be lots of cap space and capital available this coming off-season, if anyone is given the authority to utilize it.

We are for sure on the same page with your post, you and I.  Its just after last nights game, it is very hard to try to convince myself of the above, to be positive, even knowing it may be true.

I want Cozens and Quinn 1,000 miles away from this team. I want Lindy to hold a press conference spewing fire and brimstone, calling out names.  What you are saying in your above posts makes the most sense, but being a fan is emotional, and its hard to side with the logical side of things right now.

I woke up this morning and said I'm going to step away from the team for a while, its not worth it anymore. Yet I am positing as much this morning as any other morning I can remember, at least maybe that is a good thing?

[JP51]

28 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I just don't think the word rebuild applies.  I'm not suggesting that we should be happy with our 91 and 84 point seasons that preceded this year, but teams that are amongst the youngest in the league and that post seasons with those point totals, are in need of enhancements, leadership, next-level coaching, etc.; they don't need a tear-down.

The Sabres had an opportunity this past off-season to make meaningful change.  There were multiple coaches available with multiple seasons of recent success.  They had cap-space and prospect/draft capital that made making additions easier than it would ever be for an organization that is not currently a desired destination for players.  They squandered this opportunity on middling bottom-six players and a nostalgia coaching hire.  The good news is that Adams's general roster timidness has left them without any truly disastrous contracts (some will disagree), and he didn't extend Peterka, Quinn or Byram to big-deals prematurely. There will be lots of cap space and capital available this coming off-season, if anyone is given the authority to utilize it.

 

These are all good points and I largely agree.  I'm not making an excuse for Adams with this, but there is next to zero chance that the Sabres make a meaningful deal before mid-February.  Right now there are 16 teams holding down playoff spots and another 11 who are within a 3-game winning streak (or less) of changing places with one or two of those playoff teams.  All of these teams have a need or needs that could be addressed through trade...and yet, there are no trades.  The time to have made meaningful roster moves was in the draft/free agency window.  Adams missed the opportunity.  The next opportunity comes at the trade-deadline window.  Right now, we are trending to that being too late.

I think that is part of the problem... ultimately, what you say is correct, if you had a GM with vision etc... cap space is an ally, I think the problem is as we saw this off season, it has gotten so bad that no one really wants to be here... now if a new GM can salvage this and rebuild the team and the brand I would much prefer your solution. 

[JP51]

2 hours ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

toxic? I think it is an embarrassment!! 13 year of no playoffs with 1/2 the league making it is horribly embarrassing!!! Won't change though,  and we are  happy with that, just like all the leadership, management and ownership. 

I think what also bothers me is that just being middle of the pack is something that we long and strive for... thats so sad. 

[Doohicksie]

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, JP51 said:

Oh there are no good answers... dont know if you remember the Spin Doctors "lil Miss" where he said "and you do your brain surgery with a monkey wrench" Absent of Pegula selling the team the best hope I personally feel we have is a complete purge and hope to get lucky with a GM. I dont know what else you can do... but this basic core... this drafting... this philosophy is just not working and it has produced the same results year after year.. and one more thing LOL... are we as a fan base not sick of... "they have a great group of prospects!" yet where are they... they cant even crack the line up with this bunch... and in fact... they arent even the gritty type of sandpaper players we need...  and those that do crack the line up like Cozens, Quinn, Peterka, are literally regressing before our eyes with this regime.. they are learning to play soft... and lack luster... like literally the team has gone metaphorically septic... 

Ba dee, ba deep!

Ba dip, deep, ba, deep,

ba deep a, dee ba, dee ba, dee ba,

dee ba, dah ba, dah ba, dah ba, dah ba.

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

That's what we need now.  We don't need someone who is going to tear it down.  We need someone who will identify what is missing and go about intelligently and aggressively fixing what is wrong.   

Absolutely right.

I would be shocked if the next GM, should Adams get fired, employs another long form rebuild. EVEN for this organization that would be extraordinarily absurd 

[JP51]

15 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Absolutely right.

I would be shocked if the next GM, should Adams get fired, employs another long form rebuild. EVEN for this organization that would be extraordinarily absurd 

Hoping it can work this way... not at all confident that it plays out... but the bottom line is Adams is still the GM and we still are in he// 

[JP51]

24 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Ba dee, ba deep!

Ba dip, deep, ba, deep,

ba deep a, dee ba, dee ba, dee ba,

dee ba, dah ba, dah ba, dah ba, dah ba.

am I to assume you remember the song LOL