GDT: Sabres @ Islanders- Nov. 30, 2024, 7:30PM, MSG 📺 WGR550 📻

[Thorner]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

Last night was the reality of this team. They have no heart, no desire, no desperation to play the game. This was the Minnesota game except this time more pucks went in the Sabres net.

I'm not even going to get into the players on the team other than to echo what others have said. Benson gets it. Krebs might be the next hardest working player on the team.

I'm done with the Lindy Ruff experiment. This team looks the same as it did last year. They sucked AGAIN on the PP. They show no adaptability to when others teams have their number. Ruff is clearly not demanding accountability or Jack Quinn would be sitting in the press box. Who cares who plays over him, it's not like Quinn scores. Granted, after last night I'd want to sit the whole team.

I'm done with ANY coach on this staff, no keeping some of them. they all get to go.

I'm done with Adams who has built this joke of an organization.

I'm done with Alex Tuch as the poster boy of players who want to be here. The only way he could try any less harder would be to not take the ice. He's loving his paycheck I am sure.

And of course, it's all Pegula's fault. Year after year.

This board has more emotion about the Buffalo Sabres hockey club than all those who step on the ice or work in the front office.

Another of what I’d point to as a bit of a “canary in the coal mine” type of post. It’s your average Tuesday if I’m on here b*tching but when it was crusader a couple weeks ago or this, it means something a bit more 

[Pimlach]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What makes me angry about this mediocre GM is that the time to have made an impactful deal for a second-line player was the offseason. He over-assessed his roster and miscalculated what his roster needs were. Yes, he did a solid job on rebuilding the lower lines, but he was unresponsive to the biggest need of adding a second-line player that would have made the offense more potent. It was a tepid response to a major need.  Repeating what I have previously stated: He's a checkers player playing a chess game. He's a congenial fellow who is simply inadequate for the task. Mediocrity breeding more mediocrity. 

He is not even mediocre.  His record is one of failure. 

[JohnC]

Just now, Pimlach said:

He is not even mediocre.  His record is one of failure. 

What other owner in the league would hire such an inexperienced hockey fellow who already was working in the business side of his hockey organization to take over a downward spiraling franchise? It's an absurdity. It makes no sense other than the owner's priority was to cut costs. No serious hockey person would have been interested in coming here. And the owner wasn't interested in bringing in a serious hockey person because his priority was to cut costs. And that's what made KA appealing: His willingness to do so. 

[Thorner]

On 5/24/2023 at 7:21 PM, Thorner said:

time is valuable, man. By far, by far, the asset we undersell the most on this board. 

 

On 3/10/2023 at 7:53 PM, Thorner said:

So much more value found in severely aiding the team on ice in the next 2 seasons while TT Skinner Tuch and Dahlin are all going off than sitting on an asset we already have an abundance of that likely won’t provide much value in those 2 seasons. I do not care at all that Saros expires in 2 years, the arm-chair GMing has jumped the shark. It’s *really, really ok* to concentrate on the next 2 critical years, I promise you. How many years on this planet does everyone think they get? People just toss out time like it’s *nothing* when it’s the most important asset, sports or otherwise.

Be good in the next 2 years. Have fun. Sign Saros along the way, or move on to Levi after in stride.

Or horde prospects and posts links to prospect pool rankings detailing a future that as of yet hasn’t ever arrived 

It’s a prospect. In the hypothetical it’s a prospect for a no-bones-about-it starter among the league’s best when it’s BY FAR our biggest need and people be like “nope” 

 

35 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I'm not going to bother discussing this game. Everyone saw what they saw. This 13-year doldrum is inexcusable and absurd. The system is designed for the down teams to move up and make it more challenging for the up teams to remain in their loftier positions. Let's compare Buffalo to the Washington organization that won a Cup in 2018. Over the past few years, the Calpitals have steadily reworked their roster. The front office has added young players from their system, making smart trades and acquiring the right free agent players. Their best player who will be in the HOF, Ovie, will be out for an extended period of time. Their record is 17-6-1, winning 7 straight road games. They won last night in a come from behind win against the Devils, one of the better teams in the league.  

What has handcuffed this franchise is an owner who personally hired the top staff. He doesn't know what he is doing. But what makes things even worse is that it doesn't seem that he is even invested in his own franchise. Tell me, what NHL franchise would have hired such an inexperienced person like KA to be their GM? I'm not saying that every decision the GM has made is wrong, but what is evident is that there are not enough right decisions to enable this team to be a serious team in the league. 

My worry is that because this franchise has been stuck for so long in the muck of mediocrity that some of their best young talent will become demoralized and want out like Eichel and Reinhardt did. Players at this level are fierce competitors. They don't like to regularly lose and not have a chance to participate in the playoffs. Don't kid yourself, consistently losing and not winning enough does demoralize even the most talented players. The owner and his GM need to demonstrate more urgency that they care and want to win. It's a ridiculous situation for a fan to be subjected to. What's worse than fan anger is fan apathy. That's the fast-track road that this franchise is on. 

Been harping on it for so long: they have undervalued the time they are/were throwing away while implementing their plan for “long term” success to an egregious extent and it’s costing them. It cost them. Player psyche, and fan. They had the priority wrong. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Thorner said:

 

 

Been harping on it for so long: they have undervalued the time they are/were throwing away while implementing their plan for “long term” success to an egregious extent and it’s costing them. It cost them. Player psyche, and fan. They had the priority wrong. 

There is a saying:  Penny wise and dollar foolish. If the owner and organization would have been willing to make a few "substantial" moves to augment the "draft and develop" rebuild strategy, this team would be in a much better position. The margin between success and failure can be small. The owner and GM took the cheaper route of thinking small and wasting time. (As you point out.) In a competitive endeavor it is a loser's mentality. You end up getting what you deserve. 

[Pimlach]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What other owner in the league would hire such an inexperienced hockey fellow who already was working in the business side of his hockey organization to take over a downward spiraling franchise? It's an absurdity. It makes no sense other than the owner's priority was to cut costs. No serious hockey person would have been interested in coming here. And the owner wasn't interested in bringing in a serious hockey person because his priority was to cut costs. And that's what made KA appealing: His willingness to do so. 

Hiring Adams was about these things, and none of them have anything to do with Hockey Operations  

1. Trust - Terry likes Adams and trusts him to do what says

2. Control - Terry feels he had to have a lot of it 

3.  Lack of a network in the NHL.  Terry lacks this.  He put his wife in charge of the team.  

4. Money -  Terry was very concerned about the family fortune in 2020 with Covid uncertainty and so many pieces of his business hurting. 

As I mentioned, Zito was out there.  

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

There is a saying:  Penny wise and dollar foolish. If the owner and organization would have been willing to make a few "substantial" moves to augment the "draft and develop" rebuild strategy, this team would be in a much better position. The margin between success and failure can be small. The owner and GM took the cheaper route of thinking small and wasting time. (As you point out.) In a competitive endeavor it is a loser's mentality. You end up getting what you deserve. 

Imagine how much less we’d need to ask of our drafting, and young players if they weren’t being expected to fill the majority of the crucial roles on an unsustainable timeline.

The problem with the tank wasn’t the difficulty of being able to construct a last place roster and “succeed” in attaining McEichel: the problem with the tank was the exceptionally high degree of difficulty we willfully attached to building out the rest of the roster by torpedoing it in the first place for one player

Electing for the Youngest Team in Hockey every year wilfully puts the degree of difficulty seemingly beyond our reach, because teams with more balanced veteran rosters necessarily ask less of the youth stepping in. 

[Stoner]

27 minutes ago, Thorner said:

 

 

Been harping on it for so long: they have undervalued the time they are/were throwing away while implementing their plan for “long term” success to an egregious extent and it’s costing them. It cost them. Player psyche, and fan. They had the priority wrong. 

What if the plan is a scam? And it works with this fan base for some reason.

9 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Hiring Adams was about these things, and none of them have anything to do with Hockey Operations  

1. Trust - Terry likes Adams and trusts him to do what says

2. Control - Terry feels he had to have a lot of it 

3.  Lack of a network in the NHL.  Terry lacks this.  He put his wife in charge of the team.  

4. Money -  Terry was very concerned about the family fortune in 2020 with Covid uncertainty and so many pieces of his business hurting. 

As I mentioned, Zito was out there.  

2. and 3. seem to be in opposition. I don't really agree with 3. Kim was running the business side and Terry was heading to the GM office to meddle. Kim confirmed the dichotomy.

Now maybe Kim got involved in pucks, too, if the GMTM departure story is true.

[Sidc3000]

35 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What other owner in the league would hire such an inexperienced hockey fellow who already was working in the business side of his hockey organization to take over a downward spiraling franchise? It's an absurdity. It makes no sense other than the owner's priority was to cut costs. No serious hockey person would have been interested in coming here. And the owner wasn't interested in bringing in a serious hockey person because his priority was to cut costs. And that's what made KA appealing: His willingness to do so. 

I’ve been saying this for a few seasons now. Pegula bought the Sabres to show the NFL he could run a professional sports team. Now he’s stuck with the Sabres but as much money as possible put into the Bills, especially with the new stadium. He’s running the Sabres on a shoestring budget and has the best person there do that as GM. 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Hiring Adams was about these things, and none of them have anything to do with Hockey Operations  

1. Trust - Terry likes Adams and trusts him to do what says

2. Control - Terry feels he had to have a lot of it 

3.  Lack of a network in the NHL.  Terry lacks this.  He put his wife in charge of the team.  

4. Money -  Terry was very concerned about the family fortune in 2020 with Covid uncertainty and so many pieces of his business hurting. 

As I mentioned, Zito was out there.  

Addressing #4, Terry got into the hospitality business at a full throttle pace. Then covid struck. That substantial part of his enterprise was financially obliterated. He saw that his business strategy to move into that new area was quickly draining off his resources. He sold off much of that part of the business.  So his approach was to understandably cut expenses. The problem is that he didn't change it when the economic environment went back to relative normalcy. 

With respect to #3 and his wife's involvement, I do believe that if she didn't get ill, she would have been better suited to be involved with the hockey operation than the owner. (I'm aware that a lot of people would disagree with that.) She seems to be better with people, listening and communicating. 

As far as not being in tune with the NHL network, that's because the owner wants it that way. There is nothing unusual that when someone enters a new field of endeavor that has a unique culture that it takes time to understand the uniqueness and complexities of this new realm. However, he's had more than enough time to adapt. He hasn't because that is his wish. My sense of Terry P is that he is comfortable in ordering people to do things and is not good at listening to others giving input that is contrary to his inclinations. Billionaire stubbornness and hubris. 

 

[Stoner]

Just now, Sidc3000 said:

I’ve been saying this for a few seasons now. Pegula bought the Sabres to show the NFL he could run a professional sports team. Now he’s stuck with the Sabres but as much money as possible put into the Bills, especially with the new stadium. He’s running the Sabres on a shoestring budget and has the best person there do that as GM. 

It's not any more complicated than that. Truly. Intro Bills presser, Terry couldn't distance himself from the Sabres fast enough. Think about the timing of the tank decision and talks heating up to buy the Bills.

[Thorner]

12 minutes ago, Stoner said:

What if the plan is a scam? And it works with this fan base for some reason.

2. and 3. seem to be in opposition. I don't really agree with 3. Kim was running the business side and Terry was heading to the GM office to meddle. Kim confirmed the dichotomy.

Now maybe Kim got involved in pucks, too, if the GMTM departure story is true.

Are ticket sales good again? Actually asking. I think the few beating the “everything is fine” drum are just that: the few. Anyone that posts here is a hardcore. Anyone that posts as much as we do specifically is certifiable

It doesn’t need to be all doom and gloom. I’ll continue saying it: much of the frustration comes from fact making the playoffs isn’t actually that hard and a change of priority would probably address that real quick

look, you have a good point in this sense: the fans DID buy into it, to a very real, VERY workable extent, for this organizational crew to have BEYOND a fighting chance, if they’d just take it. They *have* successfully lowered the bar of expectation to merely making the playoffs once.

It’s right there. Right there for the taking. Immortality, take it: it’s yours.

I scoff most when you do see the “sabres fans are never happy!” tact those who do remain sold sometimes employ. Like come on. Can we actually give the fanbase a legitimate accomplishment to test that theory, first? I think if we made the playoffs, these fans would be surprised at the elation 

and the relief 

Edited 18 hours ago by Thorner

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Sidc3000 said:

I’ve been saying this for a few seasons now. Pegula bought the Sabres to show the NFL he could run a professional sports team. Now he’s stuck with the Sabres but as much money as possible put into the Bills, especially with the new stadium. He’s running the Sabres on a shoestring budget and has the best person there do that as GM. 

What's perplexing to me is that he was more interested in hockey than football. He was very involved in Penn State Univer. hockey. He substantially contributed to building their arena. His aloofness and detachment from the Sabres and fanbase is odd and maddening. 

[Stoner]

4 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Are ticket sales good again? Actually asking. I think the few beating the “everything is fine” drum are just that: the few. Anyone that posts here is a hardcore. Anyone that posts as much as we do specifically is certifiable

It doesn’t need to be all doom and gloom. I’ll continue saying it: much of the frustration comes from fact making the playoffs isn’t actually that hard and a change of priority would probably address that real quick

look, you have a good point in this sense: the fans DID by it to a very real, VERY workable extent, for this organization crew to have BEYOND a fighting chance, if they’d just take it. They *have* successful lower the bar of expectation to merely making the playoffs once.

It’s right there. Right there for the taking. Immortality, take it: it’s yours.

I scoff most when you do see the “sabres fans are never happy!” tact those who do remain sold sometimes employ. Like come on. Can we actually give the fanbase a legitimate accomplishment to test that theory, first? I think if we made the playoffs, these fans would be surprised at the elation 

and the relief

Averaging a little under 16k and near the bottom of the league so no bueno. Also down about 3 percent from this time a year ago. But 16k in this market for this franchise is impressive IMHO.

[Thorner]

Just now, Stoner said:

Averaging a little under 16k and near the bottom of the league so no bueno. Also down about 3 percent from this time a year ago. But 16k in this market for this franchise is impressive IMHO.

That’s the tragedy. We are asking so little. We are still here.

Make the playoffs. Just make the playoffs once 

[CallawaySabres]

This team is worse than last year and even more boring to watch. I can’t believe they are still this bad, wow. 

[bunomatic]

Too much youth. Too young. Not enough age and experience. No push back. No grit. Too nice. Timid play. No smashmouth. No accountibility. Not hard to play against. Who leads ? Who sets an example ? Little on ice communication. No playoff experience. No playoffs.

[JoeSchmoe]

21 minutes ago, Thorner said:

That’s the tragedy. We are asking so little. We are still here.

Make the playoffs. Just make the playoffs once 

All that cap space left unspent. We're in the early stages of a death spiral. People have no reason to go the rink because of the team on the ice, and the owner won't spend unless we show up.

Short of a miracle superstar showing up on our doorstep through the draft, I don't see any way out of this.

[JohnC]

31 minutes ago, Stoner said:

It's not any more complicated than that. Truly. Intro Bills presser, Terry couldn't distance himself from the Sabres fast enough. Think about the timing of the tank decision and talks heating up to buy the Bills.

How in the heck does taking a tanking strategy for your hockey franchise enhance your position with the football team? That makes no sense. You don't have to dig very deeply for reasons why the Sabres are a failed organization: incompetence of the owner. 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Stoner said:

What if the plan is a scam? And it works with this fan base for some reason.

2. and 3. seem to be in opposition. I don't really agree with 3. Kim was running the business side and Terry was heading to the GM office to meddle. Kim confirmed the dichotomy.

Now maybe Kim got involved in pucks, too, if the GMTM departure story is true.

Kim also reaffirmed the great job Boterill was doing, citing that fans don’t know the inner details of running a team.  Take her with a grain of salt. 

Actually 1 thru 4 are all related. It’s all about a lack of trust and the need for control.  

3 is about not having a network of proven NHL people to help him, even after many years in the league.  So hire the wife, save money, and keep all of the control within the family.  Was Kim really running the business side, or was Adams?  Who got promoted from Business operations to hockey operations?   Is that a normal path for NHL GMs?  

[Pimlach]

34 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

This team is worse than last year and even more boring to watch. I can’t believe they are still this bad, wow. 

They are better than last year.  They have warts just like all of the other teams competing for a wild card.  

[steveoat87]

33 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

They are better than last year.  They have warts just like all of the other teams competing for a wild card.  

Yes they are better than last year.  What puzzles me is their ability to score goals 2 years ago compared to the current scenario.  It must be that they are having trouble integrating the new defense (compared to having played no defense in the past) with their offensive game.  Hopefully this will come in time.  They also have to get much more comfortable shooting from closer distances with skill.

Edited 17 hours ago by steveoat87

[steveoat87]

I wish the local media could put more pressure on Adams/Terry to do something.

[SwampD]

8 minutes ago, steveoat87 said:

Yes they are better than last year.  What puzzles me is their ability to score goals 2 years ago compared to the current scenario.  It must be that they are having trouble integrating the new defense (compared to having played no defense in the past) with their offensive game.  Hopefully this will come in time.  They also have to get much more comfortable shooting from closer distances with skill.

This year, they are playing against starting goalies.

[Jorcus]

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

These Sabres forwards are losing minutes lately -  Malenstyn, McLeod, and Zucker.  
 

Does this seem odd to anyone else?   They brought them in for Lindy to add toughness, speed, and NHL experience.  
 

I don’t get what’s going on with the constant line changes either.  

 

The opening lineup was very strange last night. Lindy what is Quinn doing on the first line? Sure the first line was slumping but when they are right they are very hard to handle for most teams. I think the recent games have been against teams that are good at containing top lines as well as a few bad breaks in the shots they did take. So why the change last night? You are not making the second line better by making the first line worse. 

I don't know what the future holds for Quinn but not addressing his position with an alternative has screwed this team for 2 years now. Last year they tried to patch his loss with Benson who I know everybody loves but he does not generate 2nd line production. I know Cozens gets the heat for not producing enough but what they hell can he do with wingers who do not score? When Adams loses his job it will be because they did not find an experienced power winger that you know your going to get 20 plus goals out of to play with Cozens. I think he is getting used to Benson so maybe you can keep him on the second line but something better has to be a long term solution for the right side. If you want to let Kulich grow into a second line roll, well maybe but good luck making the playoffs this year. 

I don't know what is going on with the bottom 6 but it's less concerning than the line 2 issues.