Defensemen Trio Elevating Sabres Into Contention

[Porous Five Hole]

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-edge-stats-defenseman-trio-elevating-buffalo-sabres-into-contention
 

“The Sabres are tied for third in defenseman goals (14) behind the Edmonton Oilers and Seattle Kraken (15 each). They also rank among the leaders in high-danger shots on goal (19 tied for third).”

“As a team, Buffalo has the 10th best shot attempts percentage at 5-on-5 (51.6) in the League, a strong indicator of a team’s playoff chances.”

”After two combinations of Avalanche defenseman trios (49 and 48 points) involving Cale Makar, the NHL’s points leader at the position (30 in 22 games), the Sabres have the next-highest scoring trio at the position in the League (47 points).”

My hot take is this is what KA envisioned when he moved Mitts. Being offensively elite at the blue line and driving offense from the D. This is how Buffalo can be a problem for the league.  
And the best part is Dahlin is only 24, Power is only 22, and Byram is just 23. These guys haven’t even fully matured yet. 

[Flashsabre]

But but but Power doesn’t hit enough and Byram is redundant.😁

[French Collection]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

But but but Power doesn’t hit enough and Byram is redundant.😁

If Power won’t hit humans then he needs to focus on hitting rubber discs harder. Working on his muffin is a huge area of growth and would increase his offensive ability.

Byram finding his groove makes this unit a “big three” that other teams will fear.

The 70’s Habs big three has been mentioned before and they were a force. At least one of them was on the ice for almost the entire game. The Sabres need to find their “Engblom” as a #4 who complements the trio. That big three also spawned 2 time Norris winner Rod Langway.

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-edge-stats-defenseman-trio-elevating-buffalo-sabres-into-contention
 

“The Sabres are tied for third in defenseman goals (14) behind the Edmonton Oilers and Seattle Kraken (15 each). They also rank among the leaders in high-danger shots on goal (19 tied for third).”

“As a team, Buffalo has the 10th best shot attempts percentage at 5-on-5 (51.6) in the League, a strong indicator of a team’s playoff chances.”

”After two combinations of Avalanche defenseman trios (49 and 48 points) involving Cale Makar, the NHL’s points leader at the position (30 in 22 games), the Sabres have the next-highest scoring trio at the position in the League (47 points).”

My hot take is this is what KA envisioned when he moved Mitts. Being offensively elite at the blue line and driving offense from the D. This is how Buffalo can be a problem for the league.  
And the best part is Dahlin is only 24, Power is only 22, and Byram is just 23. These guys haven’t even fully matured yet. 

It's why I'd be willing to take the risk on Jiricek (if the cost is right). 

[JohnC]

8 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-edge-stats-defenseman-trio-elevating-buffalo-sabres-into-contention
 

“The Sabres are tied for third in defenseman goals (14) behind the Edmonton Oilers and Seattle Kraken (15 each). They also rank among the leaders in high-danger shots on goal (19 tied for third).”

“As a team, Buffalo has the 10th best shot attempts percentage at 5-on-5 (51.6) in the League, a strong indicator of a team’s playoff chances.”

”After two combinations of Avalanche defenseman trios (49 and 48 points) involving Cale Makar, the NHL’s points leader at the position (30 in 22 games), the Sabres have the next-highest scoring trio at the position in the League (47 points).”

My hot take is this is what KA envisioned when he moved Mitts. Being offensively elite at the blue line and driving offense from the D. This is how Buffalo can be a problem for the league.  
And the best part is Dahlin is only 24, Power is only 22, and Byram is just 23. These guys haven’t even fully matured yet. 

I was originally critical of the Mitts/Byram trade. It was not because from a talent standpoint it was an unequal trade. The basis of my criticism was that I felt that Mitts was a versatile player who could fill a greater variety of roles than the player he was dealt for. Watching Byram play and getting more comfortable with his new players, I've come around (although not fully) to a large extent. 

A few years ago, our blueline had a dearth of talent and was a major liability. With recent additions of Power and Byram that unit is not only becoming a strength. And it should be noted that Clifton was a good complementary addition. Pieces are steadily being added to make this roster a NHL solid roster from a talent standpoint. And the best aspect of these young additions is there is more upside to draw from as time moves forward.  

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

It's why I'd be willing to take the risk on Jiricek (if the cost is right). 

Would you be willing to give up a Kulick, Quinn, Peterka and more in a deal? I wouldn't. 

[French Collection]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Would you be willing to give up a Kulick, Quinn, Peterka and more in a deal? I wouldn't. 

Peterka has moved beyond prospect status. He is a player other teams give us multiple pieces for. NO.

I really like Quinn because he can get to the level I am talking about, but he has regressed. Jiricek and Quinn are of similar value at the moment imo. If Jiricek pans out, top 4 RHD is set for a long time.

Kulich can be Quinn’s replacement in the top 9. His added value is he can play C. NO.

Columbus is disappointed in Jiricek’s development, if they are looking to move him. He is probably frustrated at being held back and would like a fresh start. I hope he’s not a prima donna that would balk at a stint in Rochester if acquired.

Jokiharju for immediate help and RyJo for a tweener who can become a 4-5 D. Both former 1st rounders.

[LGR4GM]

27 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Would you be willing to give up a Kulick, Quinn, Peterka and more in a deal? I wouldn't. 

Lol, no. And it won't cost that. 

13 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Peterka has moved beyond prospect status. He is a player other teams give us multiple pieces for. NO.

I really like Quinn because he can get to the level I am talking about, but he has regressed. Jiricek and Quinn are of similar value at the moment imo. If Jiricek pans out, top 4 RHD is set for a long time.

Kulich can be Quinn’s replacement in the top 9. His added value is he can play C. NO.

Columbus is disappointed in Jiricek’s development, if they are looking to move him. He is probably frustrated at being held back and would like a fresh start. I hope he’s not a prima donna that would balk at a stint in Rochester if acquired.

Jokiharju for immediate help and RyJo for a tweener who can become a 4-5 D. Both former 1st rounders.

I'm thinking Joker is probably part of the ask. 

[ShadowOnTheDoor]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Would you be willing to give up a Kulick, Quinn, Peterka and more in a deal? I wouldn't. 

Quinn for Jiricek sounds about right to me. But then you'd have a second giant body pillow along with Power which would drive fans insane. Add Olivier for Samuelsson to the package and now you're talking. Now you've got shot balance (which is probably overrated, but I digress) and a blend of skill and toughness.  

Dahlin/Byram/Power - LHD

Jiricek/Olivier/Clifton - RHD

 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Would you be willing to give up a Kulick, Quinn, Peterka and more in a deal? I wouldn't. 

 

No.  Quinn straight up for Jiricek is were I would start, but even that would take some convincing.  

We really need a smart, strong, and steady defense first  top 4 guy.  Jiricek is not that kind of defenseman right now, and if he can be someday, I don't want to wait 3 to 4 years for him to figure it out.   

Peterka is a much better player right now than Jiricek is.  No way would I consider trading him for this guy.  Kulich is just now emerging and we need help at center, so no to this trade.  

 

 

Edited November 27 by Pimlach

[Night Train]

4 hours ago, French Collection said:

The Sabres need to find their “Engblom” as a #4 who complements the trio. That big three also spawned 2 time Norris winner Rod Langway.

Everyone under 50 is goggling these unknown dinosaurs. 

[Flashsabre]

Joker and Rosen for Jiricek and a pick is what I would offer.

Jiricek is  a project that needs AHL time to develop. He doesn’t help Buffalo make a push for the playoffs this year.

Adams would need to make another move for a top 6 forward/ solid defensive dman for this season.

[Thorner]

7 hours ago, French Collection said:

Peterka has moved beyond prospect status. He is a player other teams give us multiple pieces for. NO.

I really like Quinn because he can get to the level I am talking about, but he has regressed. Jiricek and Quinn are of similar value at the moment imo. If Jiricek pans out, top 4 RHD is set for a long time.

Kulich can be Quinn’s replacement in the top 9. His added value is he can play C. NO.

Columbus is disappointed in Jiricek’s development, if they are looking to move him. He is probably frustrated at being held back and would like a fresh start. I hope he’s not a prima donna that would balk at a stint in Rochester if acquired.

Jokiharju for immediate help and RyJo for a tweener who can become a 4-5 D. Both former 1st rounders.

kinda crazy how often the pieces we don’t really want seem to be just what the other team needs! 😉

imo If the deal has us sending out two pieces we would barely feel the sting of losing at all, it’s not enough 

Edited November 27 by Thorner

[freester]

3 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Joker and Rosen for Jiricek and a pick is what I would offer.

Jiricek is  a project that needs AHL time to develop. He doesn’t help Buffalo make a push for the playoffs this year.

Adams would need to make another move for a top 6 forward/ solid defensive dman for this season.

It’s going to take a better offer to get Jiricek. Quinn, Rozen and Joker

[Flashsabre]

Why is everyone throwing Quinn away? Its not going to take Quinn to get a struggling prospect.

[Thorner]

6 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

Why is everyone throwing Quinn away? Its not going to take Quinn to get a struggling prospect.

I agree. 

He’s going through his “well, Reinhart sucks!” phase right now. And will soon, in all likelihood, round out into, if not former #2 Overall Sam Reinhart level, a very good player. I don’t want to deal him in favour of keeping some younger, backwards-in-the-timeline prospect who’ll come up and probably look incredible in a small sample size first, probably go through a common adjustment to the league (as the league adjusts to him) period, then probably go on to become (if not Jack Quinn level), a pretty good hockey player. 

Is there anyone else younger we can trade? 

Up to and including a high (est) draft pick? 

[Taro T]

27 minutes ago, Thorner said:

I agree. 

He’s going through his “well, Reinhart sucks!” phase right now. And will soon, in all likelihood, round out into, if not former #2 Overall Sam Reinhart level, a very good player. I don’t want to deal him in favour of keeping some younger, backwards-in-the-timeline prospect who’ll come up and probably look incredible in a small sample size first, probably go through a common adjustment to the league (as the league adjusts to him) period, then probably go on to become (if not Jack Quinn level), a pretty good hockey player. 

Is there anyone else younger we can trade? 

Up to and including a high (est) draft pick? 

Draft pick(s), Rosen, Östlund, Helenius, Walhberg; in that order please.

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

I agree. 

He’s going through his “well, Reinhart sucks!” phase right now. And will soon, in all likelihood, round out into, if not former #2 Overall Sam Reinhart level, a very good player. I don’t want to deal him in favour of keeping some younger, backwards-in-the-timeline prospect who’ll come up and probably look incredible in a small sample size first, probably go through a common adjustment to the league (as the league adjusts to him) period, then probably go on to become (if not Jack Quinn level), a pretty good hockey player. 

Is there anyone else younger we can trade? 

Up to and including a high (est) draft pick? 

They are different players, different positions, different teammates, but there ARE some similarities:

Reinhart's worst statistical year with the Sabres was in 2016-17, the 3rd season after he was drafted.

Going into Thanksgiving that year, Reinhart had 3 goals and 6 assists through 20 games.

 

Quinn, this year is going into Thanksgiving has 1 goal and 4 assists through 20 games.

So a bit worse than Reinhart, but in the same ballpark.

FYI, in the 15 games following Thanksgiving that year, Reinhart had 5 goals and 7 assists in those next 15 games.  It would be nice if Quinn could have as much of a turnaround in production.

[Thorner]

49 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

They are different players, different positions, different teammates, but there ARE some similarities:

Reinhart's worst statistical year with the Sabres was in 2016-17, the 3rd season after he was drafted.

Going into Thanksgiving that year, Reinhart had 3 goals and 6 assists through 20 games.

 

Quinn, this year is going into Thanksgiving has 1 goal and 4 assists through 20 games.

So a bit worse than Reinhart, but in the same ballpark.

FYI, in the 15 games following Thanksgiving that year, Reinhart had 5 goals and 7 assists in those next 15 games.  It would be nice if Quinn could have as much of a turnaround in production.

That’s why I drew the comparison, ya

- - - 

ultimately it’s a lofty goal, Reinhart is one of the best players in the league - it’s an unlikely result. But the non-linear curve is one we are well acquainted with 

Edited November 28 by Thorner

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, Flashsabre said:

Why is everyone throwing Quinn away? Its not going to take Quinn to get a struggling prospect.

I'm not. I have faith in Quinn.

[French Collection]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'm not. I have faith in Quinn.

He’s showing glimpses tonight, they need him to come back to life.

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, French Collection said:

He’s showing glimpses tonight, they need him to come back to life.

3 games in a row he's gotten several chances that he just couldn't bury.  And now, 2 games in a row that Liger's claims (unsubstantiated in larger part previously) of him being "gritty" actually had supporting evidence.  He made 2 very nice checks tonight that fairly well flattened a Wild.

He's coming around.  Fairly soon he'll start scoring again.  Every little bit helps.