Owen Power leads the NHL in even strength points for defenseman

[inkman]

14 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Good stuff here sir.  Keep it coming please.

But did you mean "high panic threshold" or perhaps "low panic frequency?"  i.e. doesn't panic easily?  I would guess so.

In any case I like this summary of OP's game and would just add:

- He probably won't develop a real edge, but he needs more overall sturdiness.  This will almost certainly come with age.

- On offense, this currently manifests in a pretty weak shot.  He doesn't have either a good slapper or a good wrister.  I think this too will come with age.  He has the hands, the feet and the brains.

- He's had a few games this year that made me think he can become a great player.

- I think Byram is going to stay with Dahlin, and that this will create a coveted #4 spot with Power to be competed over by Ryan Johnson, the 2 Russian D prospects, and Bryson over the next couple of years.

I really hope Bryson isn’t seriously considered as a long term solution for Owen’s partner.  Novikov seems much more suited although he may be opposite handed for the role. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

This implication that Byram and Power are now suddenly adequate defensively is simply not true.  Both are still bad despite lighting up the scoreboard.  

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5943201/2024/11/24/sabres-sharks-ducks-kings-takeaways/

Quote

6. Rasmus Dahlin, Owen Power and Bo Byram have had their ups and downs this season. But it’s tough to deny the offensive impact those three make on this team. Now 21 games into the season, Power is tied for the league lead among defensemen with 13 five-on-five points. Byram is one behind him with 12. Dahlin, meanwhile, is fifth among NHL defensemen in points at all strengths with 19. Dahlin is still taking too many penalties, Power needs to get a bit stronger in his own end, and the Sabres are giving up a bit too much offense with Byram on the ice. But those three can generate offense.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/games.php?team=BUF#

On the West Coast road trip, great goaltending saved the team.  They gave up more high danger chances then they had in 2 of the 3 West Coast games and gave up 33 HDCA during the trip overall to just 26 for.  

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/pairings.php?fromseason=20242025&thruseason=20242025&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=BUF&loc=B&toi=0&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410

Byram with Dahlin is -3 in HDC and Byram with Power is -6 in HDC.  Power with Joki is -12 in only 63 minutes of ice time.  

Both these guys will continue to be useless on defense until they take it seriously. Byram is fast becoming the Jeff Skinner of the defense and until Power begins to use his size physically he too is only 1/2 of a defenseman.

[JohnC]

14 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This implication that Byram and Power are now suddenly adequate defensively is simply not true.  Both are still bad despite lighting up the scoreboard.  

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5943201/2024/11/24/sabres-sharks-ducks-kings-takeaways/

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/games.php?team=BUF#

On the West Coast road trip, great goaltending saved the team.  They gave up more high danger chances then they had in 2 of the 3 West Coast games and gave up 33 HDCA during the trip overall to just 26 for.  

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/pairings.php?fromseason=20242025&thruseason=20242025&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&rate=n&team=BUF&loc=B&toi=0&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410

Byram with Dahlin is -3 in HDC and Byram with Power is -6 in HDC.  Power with Joki is -12 in only 63 minutes of ice time.  

Both these guys will continue to be useless on defense until they take it seriously. Byram is fast becoming the Jeff Skinner of the defense and until Power begins to use his size physically he too is only 1/2 of a defenseman.

Your eyes are too jaundiced. Byram is inarguably more of an offensive defenseman whose strengths are shooting and skating. He's not a rugged defenseman, and will never be.  Expecting him to be a more two-way player is miscasting him as a player. 

With respect to Power, he's a tall and lanky fellow who can skate and move the puck. He's not a thumper and will never be. In my view, he's fast approaching being an anchor player for us and in the not-too-distant future he will be considered an upper tier defenseman. (My opinion.)

I also very much agree that the primary reason why the Sabres won all the games on this road trip was due to exceptional goaltending. I'm ecstatic about that. 

[mjd1001]

44 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Your eyes are too jaundiced. Byram is inarguably more of an offensive defenseman whose strengths are shooting and skating. He's not a rugged defenseman, and will never be.  Expecting him to be a more two-way player is miscasting him as a player. 

With respect to Power, he's a tall and lanky fellow who can skate and move the puck. He's not a thumper and will never be. In my view, he's fast approaching being an anchor player for us and in the not-too-distant future he will be considered an upper tier defenseman. (My opinion.)

I also very much agree that the primary reason why the Sabres won all the games on this road trip was due to exceptional goaltending. I'm ecstatic about that. 

Sometimes you give up defense to get offense. Sometimes  a player giving you 2-3 breakout passes or rushes out of the zone that result in good scoring chances for you are worth 4-5 times you didn't move someone off the puck in the D-zone but none of those resulted in a goal against.

I like Bryams game a lot this year, and I think Power is a tad over-rated by some, but hes overall (offense and defense) moved into being a top 100 D-man in the league and I expect him to keep getting batter.

[Jorcus]

If you watch Byram's game he is at his best snuffing out plays before they start. While Dahlin is freelancing more in the offensive zone Byram is more often staying at the point and if there is a turnover or shot that misses the net he is one driving back keeping the attacker to the outside while waiting for help. I have seen very little in his over all defensive game to complain about in the last 10 or so contests. If the D is boxed in he will not be the guy to lay down in front of a 90 mph slap shot but if the puck is moving he often tracks it down and if it is on his stick he knows what to do with it. 

I guess one of 3 things are going to happen either the analytics are going to catch up to his play, He will regress to the analytics or he will end up +30 at the end of the year and the analytics will make some excuse to explain it away.    

[JohnC]

6 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Sometimes you give up defense to get offense. Sometimes  a player giving you 2-3 breakout passes or rushes out of the zone that result in good scoring chances for you are worth 4-5 times you didn't move someone off the puck in the D-zone but none of those resulted in a goal against.

I like Bryams game a lot this year, and I think Power is a tad over-rated by some, but hes overall (offense and defense) moved into being a top 100 D-man in the league and I expect him to keep getting batter.

It's much easier to acquire a stay-at-home defenseman than a good offensive defenseman. Another Clifton type addition would better round out the unit. Samuelsson regressed but hopefully he can regain the form that demonstrated that he would be a solid to good defenseman. This unit is starting to be pieced together. 

I may be on your over-rating club with respect to Power. I believe that he already is one of our no touch players. It should be taken into consideration that It takes longer for tall and lanky players to physically mature. So there is more potential to tap into. I'm high on him for his current play and expected future play.  

[JustOneParade]

So, as we stand today, is Power's ceiling Erik Karlsson?

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, Jorcus said:

If you watch Byram's game he is at his best snuffing out plays before they start. While Dahlin is freelancing more in the offensive zone Byram is more often staying at the point and if there is a turnover or shot that misses the net he is one driving back keeping the attacker to the outside while waiting for help. I have seen very little in his over all defensive game to complain about in the last 10 or so contests. If the D is boxed in he will not be the guy to lay down in front of a 90 mph slap shot but if the puck is moving he often tracks it down and if it is on his stick he knows what to do with it. 

I guess one of 3 things are going to happen either the analytics are going to catch up to his play, He will regress to the analytics or he will end up +30 at the end of the year and the analytics will make some excuse to explain it away.    

As you are indicating, it does take time for a new defenseman to adjust to his new partners, team and coaches. It's apparent that he is playing with more comfort in his recent games than when he started the season. In the beginning of the season, he was feeling his way. He's seemed to progress in adjusting to his new team. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Your eyes are too jaundiced. Byram is inarguably more of an offensive defenseman whose strengths are shooting and skating. He's not a rugged defenseman, and will never be.  Expecting him to be a more two-way player is miscasting him as a player. 

With respect to Power, he's a tall and lanky fellow who can skate and move the puck. He's not a thumper and will never be. In my view, he's fast approaching being an anchor player for us and in the not-too-distant future he will be considered an upper tier defenseman. (My opinion.)

and your too forgiving of consistently bad play in our zone.  Yes the offense is great, but as Victor Hedman and many others have proven you can play competently in the D zone and still put up excellent O numbers.  Basically Byram is Shane Gostisbehere 2.0.  I'm sorry, but I'm not ok with continuing to field a D-man who gives up as much offense as he puts up.  As to Power, his O development this season is great.  Also no one is asking for him to ram people into the boards.  However, we are asking him to learn to use his size to knock people off the puck periodically.  Otherwise, he'll never reach his full potential.  

Edited November 25 by GASabresIUFAN

[mjd1001]

Bryam: 

-First 11 games average ice time 20:41 per game. 4 times below 19 minutes (17-18m range)

-Last 10 games average ice time 24:26 per game. Has not been below 21.5 minutes in any game. One game with 27.5 minutes, one game with 32.5 minutes. He is playing in all situations: end of game, powerplay, penalty killing.  In the past 10 games he even has passed Dahlin and now leads the team in even strength time on ice over the last 10 games.

Some of us like him, some of us don't. But its pretty obvious Lindy likes him, likes him in all situations and recently in games put him out there more often/more ice time than even Dahlin and Power.

 

 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

and your too forgiving of consistently bad play in our zone.  Yes the offense is great, but as Victor Hedman and many others have proven you can play competently in the D zone and still put up excellent O numbers.  Basically Byram is Shane Gostisbehere 2.0.  I'm sorry, but I'm not ok with continuing to field a D-man who gives up as much offense as he puts up..  

 

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

Byram with Dahlin is -3 in HDC and Byram with Power is -6 in HDC.  Power with Joki is -12 in only 63 minutes of ice time.  

 

Both these guys will continue to be useless on defense until they take it seriously. Byram is fast becoming the Jeff Skinner of the defense

So if you are trying to convince me a player is an absolute disaster defensively, telling me he's -3 at high danger chances ain't going to do it. Looks pretty mid to me 🤷‍♂️

I did this really weird thing and compared Byram to his peers — all the defencemen getting fed 1st-pairing 5-on-5 minutes — and looked at how successful they've been preventing and creating actual goals.

According to NHL.com, there are 63 NHL defencemen averaging at least 18 even-strength minutes a game. Byram ranks 28th among them in fewest ES goals against  this season, with 17 — little better than average. That's raw actual results on defence.

If you want to talk all-around play, he ranks 13th in actual ES goal differential with 8 — better than 3/4s of his peers — and he is 17th in ES goal % at 59.5%.

Here's how he compares to your guy Hedman

• Hedman — ESTOI: 18:44 ESGA: 18 ESGD: +7
• Byram — ESTOI: 19:09 ESGA: 17 ESGD: +8

More ice time, fewer goals against, better net

Here is a list of some other well-regarded heavy-use defenceman in that sample:

• Miro Heiskanen — ESTOI: 21:01 ESGA: 16 ESGD: +7
• Noah Dobson — ESTOI: 20:55 ESGA: 21 ESGD: -3
• Quinn Hughes — ESTOI: 20:18 ESGA: 18 ESGD: +6
• Rasmus Anderson — ESTOI: 20:12 ESGA: 18 ESGD: +3
• Evan Bouchard — ESTOI: 20:05 ESGA: 23 ESGD: +5
• Roman Josi — ESTOI: 20:02 ESGA: 30 ESGD: -11
• Gustav Forsling — ESTOI: 19:45 ESGA: 15 ESGD: +9
• Erik Karlsson — ESTOI: 19:30 ESGA: 33 ESGD: -12
• Moritz Seider — ESTOI: 19:17 ESGA: 17 ESGD: 0
• Cale Makar — ESTOI: 19:06 ESGA: 25 ESGD: -1
• Shea Theodore — ESTOI: 18:59 ESGA: 20 ESGD: -3
• Jake Sanderson — ESTOI: 18:50 ESGA: 22 ESGD: -11
• Alex Pietrangelo — ESTOI: 18:38 ESGA: 24 ESGD: +5

If Byram has been useless, he's in good company.

 

https://www.nhl.com/stats/skaters?report=goalsForAgainst&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20242025&seasonTo=20242025&gameType=2&position=D&filter=evenStrengthTimeOnIcePerGame,gte,18&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,18&sort=evenStrengthGoalDifference&page=0&pageSize=50

Edited November 25 by dudacek

[mjd1001]

The Owen Power thread has turned into a Bryam thread it seems.

After reading through the last few pages, and of course watching the games, right now I think this:

Byram is a good D-man, Really good.

We can find advanced stats that show he is a good D-man (Dudacek above). There are also some that would show he isn't (GASabresIUFAN).  So why do I think he is on the good side of that ledger?

-I like advanced stats to add some "depth" or "color" to things, but I think many times the 'eye test' and 'simple stats' are thrown out in favor of the advance stats. Well, simple stats:  Hes on pace for 12 goals and 50+ points. He has the best +/- of all D-men. 

-Next, as i mentioned above, He has been leading the team in even strength ice time over the last 10 games, and he is playing now in all situations.  Some may debate whether Lindy Ruff was the best pick to coach this team, but I am sure he knows hockey. And he is choosing to play Bryam more than anyone in the past few weeks and in all situations.

-My personal eye test. I don't see him making costly giveaways in the D-zone to cost the team goals.  He doesn't blow people up all the time, but he does get to pucks that some slower guys (Samuelsson) doesn't get to, so negates the need to 'blow up' the other guy with the puck.

-He's a pretty fast skater. (NHL edge has him clocked at over 23.5 mph skating on the ice in the past year or two, that make him one of the top 30 fasted skaters in the league) He can carry the puck through the D-zone and through the neutral zone without turning it over. Not making bad passes in the neutral zone or not turning the puck over when skating in the neutral zone can sometimes be BETTER for your team defensively than your metrics in your own zone.  (not sure if there is a 'fancy stat' to measure that, but from what I see, he's good at it)

Edited November 25 by mjd1001

[pi2000]

==============================================================
BUF even strength goal differential through 21 games = 5
BUF even strength minutes played through 21 games = 1042.35
exp+/- is a function of %min played at ES and team ES goal diff
TRpm(team relative +/-) is the diff btwn actual+/- and exp+/-
%min is % of ES minutes played
==============================================================
Team  Player                   TRpm    GP   +/-   exp+/-  %min
BUF Alex Tuch                  9.47    21    11    1.53   30.5
BUF Bowen Byram                7.07    21     9    1.93   38.6
BUF Ryan McLeod                6.63    21     8    1.37   27.4
BUF Tage Thompson              5.83    16     7    1.17   23.4
BUF Henri Jokiharju            3.83    15     5    1.17   23.3
BUF Rasmus Dahlin              2.97    21     5    2.03   40.6
BUF Jordan Greenway            2.00    16     3    1.00   20.1
BUF Jason Zucker               1.79    21     3    1.21   24.2
BUF Dennis Gilbert            -0.29     6     0    0.29    5.8
BUF JJ Peterka                -0.39    19     1    1.39   27.8
BUF Jiri Kulich               -0.72    12     0    0.72   14.4
BUF Owen Power                -0.81    21     1    1.81   36.1
BUF Peyton Krebs              -1.08    20     0    1.08   21.7
BUF Connor Clifton            -1.20    20     0    1.20   24.0
BUF Mattias Samuelsson        -2.80    13    -2    0.80   16.1
BUF Beck Malenstyn            -2.84    21    -2    0.84   16.9
BUF Zach Benson               -2.86    15    -2    0.86   17.1
BUF Sam Lafferty              -2.91    20    -2    0.91   18.2
BUF Jacob Bryson              -5.73    10    -5    0.73   14.5
BUF Dylan Cozens              -6.36    21    -5    1.36   27.3
BUF Jack Quinn                -9.23    20    -8    1.23   24.6
==============================================================

[SwampD]

On 11/24/2024 at 4:55 PM, dudacek said:

Power seems to have taken an interesting step this year. He's gotten better, but he's mostly gotten better at the things he was already good at, while making less obvious progress at the things he needed to improve most.

I guess hockey is like politics, people get fixated on specific things to the exclusion of what should be a broad palette of considerations?

It's weird to me that people who say things like 'Power can't clear the front of the net, he needs to sit' never say things like 'Dennis Gilbert can't make a breakout pass, he needs to sit' or 'Adam Fox can't clear the front of the net, he needs to sit'.

• Owen Power is among the best in the league at playing the point on offence, joining the rush, exiting the zone and making the stretch pass.
• He defends the rush pretty well, retrieves pucks pretty well, is OK at defending puck carriers one-on-one and pretty good at getting his stick into passing lanes.
• He often fails to adequately tie up his man off the puck, and is often guilty of making poor coverage decisions.
• His length/mobility combination is rare and allows him to be used in all situations against all types of opponents.
• He is a horse in terms of the amount of ice time he can handle without breaking down.
• He has a low panic threshold with the puck and sees the ice very well.
• He's had an increasingly positive role in an improving penalty kill.
• He tends to be inconsistent with some notably excellent and notably poor games.
• He literally has been the best in the league at creating offence 5-on-5 from the blueline.

So many things he does well seem to get missed because of his lack of edge. The idea that a player who brings so many good elements needs to be sat in favour of a Bryson or Gilbert or Ryan Johnson is unfathomable to me.

We missed you.

I also think his lack of an edge might actually be an asset. It means he’ll be injured less often.

[ska-T Chitown]

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

We missed you.

I also think his lack of an edge might actually be an asset. It means he’ll be injured less often.

And he is not consistently taking dumb spicy penalties like Dahls.

[Thorner]

12 minutes ago, ska-T Chitown said:

And he is not consistently taking dumb spicy penalties like Dahls.

Who’s drawn more than he’s committed this year 

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, Thorner said:

Who’s drawn more than he’s committed this year 

Thought of you when I saw this:

Dahlin leads the entire NHL in penalties drawn this year, with 10 - one more than he’s taken himself.

[dudacek]

57 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

The Owen Power thread has turned into a Bryam thread it seems.

After reading through the last few pages, and of course watching the games, right now I think this:

Byram is a good D-man, Really good.

We can find advanced stats that show he is a good D-man (Dudacek above). There are also some that would show he isn't (GASabresIUFAN).  So why do I think he is on the good side of that ledger?

-I like advanced stats to add some "depth" or "color" to things, but I think many times the 'eye test' and 'simple stats' are thrown out in favor of the advance stats. Well, simple stats:  Hes on pace for 12 goals and 50+ points. He has the best +/- of all D-men. 

-Next, as i mentioned above, He has been leading the team in even strength ice time over the last 10 games, and he is playing now in all situations.  Some may debate whether Lindy Ruff was the best pick to coach this team, but I am sure he knows hockey. And he is choosing to play Bryam more than anyone in the past few weeks and in all situations.

-My personal eye test. I don't see him making costly giveaways in the D-zone to cost the team goals.  He doesn't blow people up all the time, but he does get to pucks that some slower guys (Samuelsson) doesn't get to, so negates the need to 'blow up' the other guy with the puck.

-He's a pretty fast skater. (NHL edge has him clocked at over 23.5 mph skating on the ice in the past year or two, that make him one of the top 30 fasted skaters in the league) He can carry the puck through the D-zone and through the neutral zone without turning it over. Not making bad passes in the neutral zone or not turning the puck over when skating in the neutral zone can sometimes be BETTER for your team defensively than your metrics in your own zone.  (not sure if there is a 'fancy stat' to measure that, but from what I see, he's good at it)

The bold is what I’ve seen too, plus Byram’s awareness and commitment in the defensive zone is night and day compared to last year down the stretch.

The complaints about his defence then were completely justified. He was making bad reads and getting caught in between on a frightening basis.

He’s still not awesome at the above but he’s greatly improved. You can’t question his engagement and commitment, and his feet and his stick have often been effective at tilting the ice and snuffing plays.

He’ll never be “safe” or “shutdown” because he’s all about speed and forcing things in all 3 zones; he’s made for uptempo hockey. But he does very much care about defence. I constantly see him reading and rotating, thinking about where he needs to support what’s going on in either end. 

It hasn’t been a huge sample size, but the past month has been pretty impressive. He’s very clearly helping the team more than he’s hurting it.

 

Edited November 26 by dudacek

[mjd1001]

1 hour ago, Thorner said:

Who’s drawn more than he’s committed this year 

A chance to look up more stats, I like it:

Penalties drawn vs taken so far this year:

Best on Sabres: Greenway +4, Kulich +4 (in limited games/ice time), Quinn +3, Peterka +3.

Worst so far:  Clifton -6, Zucker -5, Cozens -4, Byram -3.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

The bold is what I’ve seen too, plus Byram’s awareness and commitment in the defensive zone is night and day compared to last year down the stretch.

The complaints about his defence then were completely justified. He was making bad reads and getting caught in between on a frightening basis.

He’s still not awesome at the above but he’s greatly improved. You can’t question his engagement and commitment, and his feet and his stick have often been effective at tilting the ice and snuffing plays.

He’ll never be “safe” or “shutdown” because he’s all about speed and forcing things in all 3 zones; he’s made for uptempo hockey. But he does very much care about defence. I constantly see him reading and rotating, thinking about where he needs to support what’s going on in either end. 

It hasn’t been a huge sample size, but the past month has been pretty impressive. He’s very clearly helping the team more than he’s hurting it.

 

One other positve in Byram's ledger.  When Dahlin is paired with him, he really feels free to join the rush and concentrate on helping generate offense.  The 2 did not work well as a pairing last year; which kind of stunk because Byram had been brought in specifically to be paired with Dahlin.

This year, we were told in the off-season that Dahlin would likely be primarily paired with Samuelsson and Power.  But Adams original plan seems to be working.  Hoping that continues.  Also hope that Adams can find Power a partner while waiting for one of Johnson, the Russians, or Samuelsson getting to a point where they are effective in an NHL top 4 role.

While it would be nice to have another top 6F; believe the #4 D-man is a bigger need because he isn't on this team right now with the entire D healthy (yes, Samuelsson is injured, but he has NOT been a top 4 guy this year when he was healthy) but they are at least 6 deep and maybe 7 or 8 deep at top 6 when fully healthy.  

[Crusader1969]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

and your too forgiving of consistently bad play in our zone.  Yes the offense is great, but as Victor Hedman and many others have proven you can play competently in the D zone and still put up excellent O numbers.  Basically Byram is Shane Gostisbehere 2.0.  I'm sorry, but I'm not ok with continuing to field a D-man who gives up as much offense as he puts up.  As to Power, his O development this season is great.  Also no one is asking for him to ram people into the boards.  However, we are asking him to learn to use his size to knock people off the puck periodically.  Otherwise, he'll never reach his full potential.  

Let's try to remember he just turned 22 the other day    Still extremely young for an NHL dman   It's very rare for a dman his age to be good at both ends of the ice   

I have little doubt that he will become much better defensively as gets older 

 

5 hours ago, SwampD said:

We missed you.

I also think his lack of an edge might actually be an asset. It means he’ll be injured less often.

You know what they say "the best ability is availability"

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Crusader1969 said:

Let's try to remember he just turned 22 the other day    Still extremely young for an NHL dman   It's very rare for a dman his age to be good at both ends of the ice   

I have little doubt that he will become much better defensively as gets older 

I'll answer with this quote from Matt Fairburn.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5937714/2024/11/21/sabres-trade-trevor-zegras-maiblag/

Quote

 

If Lindy cannot get the most out of Owen Power, what’s next? — Charles P.

Owen Power turns 22 on Friday, so it’s still early to hit the panic button on him. But some of the concerns are valid. The good news is he has 13 points in 19 games. The bad news is he’s been inconsistent, especially defensively, and still hasn’t evolved into a player who can effectively use his size to consistently out-muscle opponents in front of his team’s net. Hockey Stat Cards tracks players’ game scores throughout the season based on Dom’s model. Power has two of the Sabres’ three worst individual games this season but also has the team’s best game. That feels like it sums up Power’s season. He can be a good defender without laying huge hits all the time. But he needs to play stronger in 50-50 puck battles and in clearing the front of the net. Otherwise, he won’t be an $8.3 million defenseman. Power obviously would still hold a lot of trade value around the league as a recent No. 1 pick and the type of puck-moving defenseman teams like to build around. He has the potential to be a No. 1 power play quarterback, but he doesn’t have a path to that job in Buffalo. If general manager Kevyn Adams wanted to shake up this roster in a major way, Power would be one of the team’s most valuable trade chips. I just think the team would prefer Ruff to help him reach his full potential. If he hits his ceiling, Power can become one of those players that’s not easy to acquire.

 

 

[JohnC]

15 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

and your too forgiving of consistently bad play in our zone.  Yes the offense is great, but as Victor Hedman and many others have proven you can play competently in the D zone and still put up excellent O numbers.  Basically Byram is Shane Gostisbehere 2.0.  I'm sorry, but I'm not ok with continuing to field a D-man who gives up as much offense as he puts up.  As to Power, his O development this season is great.  Also no one is asking for him to ram people into the boards.  However, we are asking him to learn to use his size to knock people off the puck periodically.  Otherwise, he'll never reach his full potential.  

Hedman is going to be in the HOF. He's always in the discussion for the best defensemen in the league. I'm not saying that Power will ever be in that class, but what you seem to discount when evaluating him is his inexperience. There is no such thing as instant development. It takes time. In the short period of time that he has played in the league he definitely has gotten better with the potential to get even better. 

The point I made regarding too quick judgments on players also applies to Byram. You have to consider that not only is he young but he recently went to a new team with a new coaching staff, philosophy and players. You have to accept that there is an adjustment period to this new environment. It may not be apparent to you but in his recent games he's seemed to play with more comfort with the players he has been paired with. 

A little more patience would serve you so much better. It wasn't that long ago that there was a large and loud chorus to dispatch UPL because he was a lost cause. Now he is the primary reason why this team has won more than in the past. I kindly recommend that you be more patient---it will serve you well. 

[mjd1001]

17 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Hedman is going to be in the HOF. He's always in the discussion for the best defensemen in the league. I'm not saying that Power will ever be in that class, but what you seem to discount when evaluating him is his inexperience. There is no such thing as instant development. It takes time. In the short period of time that he has played in the league he definitely has gotten better with the potential to get even better. 

Hedman's development curve was brought up a few years ago on here when discussing Dahlin. I do not remember the every exact detail of the conversation, but I do know that for the first 4-5 YEARS of his career, he was given a lot of ice time but there were questions of "is he really ever going to good enough to justify the 2nd overall pick?"  If you look at the awards he has one...NHL All star, 2nd team all star, Norris Trophy, the earliest ANY of that happened was in his 27-28 year old season. If I'm mistaken he wasn't even nominated for the Norris until he was 26-27.

So yeah, Hedman is going to the HOF. Maybe Power will never get to be close to that good, but with MOST D-mean, development takes time.  They are very, VERY often not even close to the same D-men that they are at age 28 as they are at age 23 or even 24. There are other examples (Karlsson, Charra among others in the past decade or two that were considered almost at the 'bust' level until they were in the league for 4-5 years. Karlsson put up points but he was so bad defensively at first I remember some of the 'insiders' on HNIC saying he was almost unplayable at defense and he needed to be moved to forward.)

Edited November 26 by mjd1001

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Hedman's development curve was brought up a few years ago on here when discussing Dahlin. I do not remember the every exact detail of the conversation, but I do know that for the first 4-5 YEARS of his career, he was given a lot of ice time but there were questions of "is he really ever going to good enough to justify the 2nd overall pick?"  If you look at the awards he has one...NHL All star, 2nd team all star, Norris Trophy, the earliest ANY of that happened was in his 27-28 year old season. If I'm mistaken he wasn't even nominated for the Norris until he was 26-27.

So yeah, Hedman is going to the HOF. Maybe Power will never get to be close to that good, but with MOST D-mean, development takes time.  They are very, VERY often not even close to the same D-men that they are at age 28 as they are at age 23 or even 24. There are other examples (Karlsson, Charra among others in the past decade or two that were considered almost at the 'bust' level until they were in the league for 4-5 years)

You don't have to look too far for examples of high-end prospects taking time from being mistake prone young players to top tier players. Dahlin is an example of that. Under Krueger he looked totally lost. Then under Granato, he was given the freedom to grow which allowed his game to exponentially improve. He's still young, but there is a lot more maturity to his game compared to only three years back. It takes time. Anyone who gets too focused on Power's current deficiencies are not seeing his current solid play and abundant potential to draw from.