Per SBD: A portion of the Buffalo Bills has been sold

[Brawndo]

 

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Not thrilled with Pegula selling off ~20% of the team, but guess he has to cover the stadium overruns somehow and "drilling another well" doesn't seem to be on the table.

Mainly unhappy with it for what it might mean to the long term picture for the team when TP passes on.  Realize the family (Kim or the kids) would still own nearly 80% but no idea how estate taxes might factor into the mix and not sure how much of a stake the new ownership groups would have in keeping the team in Buffalo.

Guess worry about that when it comes.  But that day will be here sooner than later and after ~20 years of rumors of TO the past decade with no real threat of them leaving has been a nice respite but would really like to have seen the respite last longer.

[mjd1001]

26 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Not thrilled with Pegula selling off ~20% of the team, but guess he has to cover the stadium overruns somehow and "drilling another well" doesn't seem to be on the table.

Mainly unhappy with it for what it might mean to the long term picture for the team when TP passes on.  Realize the family (Kim or the kids) would still own nearly 80% but no idea how estate taxes might factor into the mix and not sure how much of a stake the new ownership groups would have in keeping the team in Buffalo.

Guess worry about that when it comes.  But that day will be here sooner than later and after ~20 years of rumors of TO the past decade with no real threat of them leaving has been a nice respite but would really like to have seen the respite last longer.

Yeah, the common theme is "but they have a new stadium, they aren't going anywhere".  Maybe for a bit, and we aren't worried about the next 5-10 years...

But a $2billion dollar stadium in a metro area with 1 million people isn't going to anchor a team here.  We already have had $5+ billion dollar stadiums (Sofi) and Allegiant field in Vegas would probably cost $3-$4B today if it was started.  If Toronto had an opportunity for a team, I don't think I would put it by anyone to build a $5-$6Billion dollar stadium that would generate the owners and the NFL so much revenue, plus the region has about 5-7 times the population, and probably 20 times the wealth.

I'm not trying to start a doom-and-gloom thread here....the hopful scenario is that the team stays in the Pegula family for the next generation.  But that new stadium won't do much to keep the team in WNY beyond 10 years past its opening.

The good news about the story above is that it says its investors with ties to the STATE of NY (doesn't necessarily mean NY city money).  State of NY could be people with ties to upstate/WNY.  

Edited Monday at 11:05 PM by mjd1001

[sabremike]

Um guys, the Bills are NOT the team whose future you should be worrying about. It's the hockey team that is currently the biggest failure of an organization of all time playing in a decrepit shithole of an arena having spent well over a decade poisoning the market so bad it makes Love Canal look pristine by comparison.  

[Demoted]

5 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Um guys, the Bills are NOT the team whose future you should be worrying about. It's the hockey team that is currently the biggest failure of an organization of all time playing in a decrepit shithole of an arena having spent well over a decade poisoning the market so bad it makes Love Canal look pristine by comparison.  

But Adam's is supposedly looking to make a big trade...

[JoeSchmoe]

40 minutes ago, sabremike said:

Um guys, the Bills are NOT the team whose future you should be worrying about. It's the hockey team that is currently the biggest failure of an organization of all time playing in a decrepit shithole of an arena having spent well over a decade poisoning the market so bad it makes Love Canal look pristine by comparison.  

The arena is fine by me. If you can't enjoy a good hockey game at Key Bank, maybe you just don't really like hockey.

Still, it's the hockey team we gotta worry about.

[shrader]

I finally understand that train whistle at bills games after watching this thread quickly get derailed.

[pastajoe]

28 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

The arena is fine by me. If you can't enjoy a good hockey game at Key Bank, maybe you just don't really like hockey.

Still, it's the hockey team we gotta worry about.

Hockey is my favorite sport but I can’t enjoy it at Key Bank. At 6’3” I’m in pain all game trying to fit my legs behind the seats. I actually bought tickets in the top row so I could stand up every few minutes.

[mjd1001]

3 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

The arena is fine by me. If you can't enjoy a good hockey game at Key Bank, maybe you just don't really like hockey.

Still, it's the hockey team we gotta worry about.

If I like Hockey, i'm watching it at home.  I get access to my computer, better replays, High def gives me a better view of the game than most seats in the arena. As a pure 'fan', I can watch, analyze, and enjoy 'the game' better at home.  I can go to NHL.com and watch the replay of every goal minutes after it was scored, from numerous angles, and go frame-by-frame if I want.

I would primarily go to the Arena over watching the game at home for the Arena experience and atmosphere..  Just as a hockey fan, only caring about the game, I get the better experience at home.  The only way you drag me to the Arena is for the extras, the amenities, etc.

Its not like 20+ years ago when the TV broadcast had a total of 4 cameras (maybe), low-def, and many of we were watching it on 27 inch or less TV screens, while the older Arenas in the league had you sit CLOSER to the ice than the current ones.

 

Edited Tuesday at 03:46 AM by mjd1001

[Second Line Center]

5 hours ago, sabremike said:

Um guys, the Bills are NOT the team whose future you should be worrying about. It's the hockey team that is currently the biggest failure of an organization of all time playing in a decrepit shithole of an arena having spent well over a decade poisoning the market so bad it makes Love Canal look pristine by comparison.  

Exactly.  The Bills aren’t building a 2 billion dollar stadium to just up and leave in 10-15 years - it would be well over 25-30 years from now if thats even an issue. 
 

The Sabres to me…..it’s panic time.  Something is so so off with everything and as the product, brand, attendance, and most importantly perhaps TPs commitment start to deteriorate, they’re gone.  

Edited Tuesday at 05:12 AM by Second Line Center

[triumph_communes]

Selling portions of the team is done partly to avoid the impact of estate taxes. They’re planning for his death 

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

Selling portions of the team is done partly to avoid the impact of estate taxes.

How so?

I guess I get that Terry's now got to pay gains on what he's selling.

But, presuming Terry lives a good while longer, the team will be worth so much more by then that this sale won't really take the sting out of any taxes associated with his passing the team on.

I'll presume that there'd be no way for his children to absorb/pay the presumed estate taxes that would apply to Terry's ownership stake in the team.

There'd need to be a trust created, if his kids are going to take over.

[Demoted]

Supposedly he tried to throw in the Sabres but the investors threatened to back out of the deal if he did.

[mjd1001]

9 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

Exactly.  The Bills aren’t building a 2 billion dollar stadium to just up and leave in 10-15 years - it would be well over 25-30 years from now if thats even an issue. 
 

The Sabres to me…..it’s panic time.  Something is so so off with everything and as the product, brand, attendance, and most importantly perhaps TPs commitment start to deteriorate, they’re gone.  

An outside owner from a big city with deep pockets doesn't care about a $2b stadium in Buffalo.  Especially when a market that might be 5 to 10 times the size that will builid a $5B stadium to lure them away is waiting.

[EM88]

9 hours ago, Second Line Center said:

Exactly.  The Bills aren’t building a 2 billion dollar stadium to just up and leave in 10-15 years - it would be well over 25-30 years from now if thats even an issue. 
 

The Sabres to me…..it’s panic time.  Something is so so off with everything and as the product, brand, attendance, and most importantly perhaps TPs commitment start to deteriorate, they’re gone.  

I disagree.

I do not think the Bills are moving in the next 5-7 years. But I do not think a 2 billion dollar stadium anchors them here.

This is not a decade ago. There are closing in on  1000 billionaires in the USA and Canada alone.  Last time I saw a list there are over 50 alone that are worth more than $20 billion, dozens worth more than $50 billion.  Those numbers, both in terms of dollars and the number of people, are growing.  This is without even bringing up how many lesser billionaire or multi-millionaire celebrities might band together in a celebrity ownership group backed by private investors that can do the same.

Leaving behind a $2b stadium in Buffalo is nothing to them, especially with what might be waiting for them in a much larger market.

If an individual really wants an NFL team, and wants them in a much larger market than Buffalo, a $2 billion dollar stadium here is not going to stand in their way. They can write a check for that and the attention they will get for being a new owner, the view they will be for being the hero that brings a franchise to a new city, will far outweigh the money they have to spend to do that.

If the Pegula family continues to own the Bills, or someone with Buffalo roots such as Jeffrey Gundlach decides they want the team because they are a Buffalo fan buys the team, then it will be here longer term. If that does not happen, this team will not be here. Its a very binary thing.  

That $2 billion stadium is a huge deal to this area.  Its not much to anyone outside of the area with outside interests.

Edited Tuesday at 02:35 PM by EM88

[LGR4GM]

I think one thing that gets lost in all of this is branding. The Buffalo Bills have a brand and style that dies once you move them. I think as long as Allen is in Buffalo, with the new stadium, the chances of them moving are very very low. 

[That Aud Smell]

7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I think one thing that gets lost in all of this is branding. The Buffalo Bills have a brand and style that dies once you move them. I think as long as Allen is in Buffalo, with the new stadium, the chances of them moving are very very low. 

So low as to be non-existent.

That said, the useful life of the new stadium does not anchor the franchise in Buffalo for that same period of time.

With further regard to your comment about branding: The Buffalo brand also means something to the league. I'm not sure exactly how much it means. Anyway, I tend to doubt that the intangible value of that brand would stand in the way of someone willing to pay, say, ten billion dollars (years from now) for the right to own and move the team.

Edited Tuesday at 02:46 PM by That Aud Smell

[WhenWillItEnd66]

Please please please sell a controlling portion (51%) of the Sabres too!!!!!!!

[inkman]

So does this confirm the Pegulas are cash poor?  Or is it unreasonable for someone to have access to tens or hundreds of millions?

[JoeSchmoe]

13 hours ago, pastajoe said:

Hockey is my favorite sport but I can’t enjoy it at Key Bank. At 6’3” I’m in pain all game trying to fit my legs behind the seats. I actually bought tickets in the top row so I could stand up every few minutes.

My brother is 6'4 and has never mentioned it being an issue. Would a new arena actually fix this? 

[LTS]

2 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

My brother is 6'4 and has never mentioned it being an issue. Would a new arena actually fix this? 

It could fix it.. I was not cramped in Nashville or Vegas.  KBC is a tiny arena so to get as many seats in as they did they had to cram them.

I am 6'2 and I hate the seats at KBC.  They are awful.

[Stoner]

I'm 6'9 and have never had an issue.

[mjd1001]

7 minutes ago, LTS said:

It could fix it.. I was not cramped in Nashville or Vegas.  KBC is a tiny arena so to get as many seats in as they did they had to cram them.

I am 6'2 and I hate the seats at KBC.  They are awful.

I have not been to Vegas or Nashville in the arena. I have been to Little Ceasars in Detroit, and over the past decade most recently in Columbus, Boston, and Pittsburgh and they all blow away the KBC.  In Buffalo, I go to my seats and thats it, when the game is over leave.  In those other arenas, its an experience. I have fun in the arena, I want to see what is going on outside them, I could just walk around and look at the different levels and viewpoints.  

So Yes, KBC does its job for being a place to watch hocky. But as I said above, if I am ONLY interested in the game....I get the best viewing experience at home. I go to the arena for the game, and a night out, and to see the game and enjoy other things...and KBC is seriously lacking compared to other places around the league.

Edited Tuesday at 03:15 PM by mjd1001

[jad1]

19 minutes ago, inkman said:

So does this confirm the Pegulas are cash poor?  Or is it unreasonable for someone to have access to tens or hundreds of millions?

They're not cash poor.  This just let's them use their investment in the team to create liquidity instead of their other businesses.  It's a smart move.

It's a result of the NFL changing its ownership rules allowing private equity firms to purchase minority interests in teams.

[triumph_communes]

29 minutes ago, inkman said:

So does this confirm the Pegulas are cash poor?  Or is it unreasonable for someone to have access to tens or hundreds of millions?

Gotta pay for 560mil in stadium cost overruns somehow