GDT: St.Louis Blues @ Buffalo Sabres 7:30 PM ESPN+/Hulu, WGR550

[Pimlach]

11 minutes ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

This is a huge Sabres problem. Our defense is softer than Charmin. Our only one that is hard to play against (Gilbert) would barely crack an NHL lineup on most teams. Muel used to be that before he got broken. Now he is basically useless to the Sabres. We need this fixed in the worst way. 

 

You forgot about Clifton?   Clifton is a big hitter and a very tough player.  He blasted a few Blues forwards last night in fact.  He is small (short) but he plays a physical game.  He can more than hold his own against any middleweight in fisticuffs too.  The youtube videos of his hockey fights bear this out. 

We just need a bigger version of that, with top 4 skills, to pair with Power.   Add this player, and a physical top 6 player, and we are a serious team.  

[Getpucksdeep]

8 minutes ago, JustOneParade said:

How anyone who has watched the Sabres power play this season NOT endorse what the Sabres did at the end there is beyond me. 

His point was turn it into 3 minutes, to be fair. 

[LETSTUCHINGO]

Great, gritty game by the Sabres last night. It wasn't pretty by any means and the league definitely seems to want to keep us in the basement, but the team rallied together and got the win to move to 4-1 over the last 5 games. That in and of itself is different from last year's team. Last year this team would of sulked about the Habs loss and would of died on the ice after that BS interference call. That is just one of the positive effects Ruff is having!

Power is becoming a problem and Ruff needs to bring out some semblance of physicality in him. He doesn't have to line guys up, but he has to finish guys into the boards to eliminate players from a play. ESPN analysts did a great job pointing that out last night. He, game in and game out, loses his assignments and is sloppy with the puck when pressured. Agree that he is young, but these changes need to happen sooner than later for us to become consistent.

Peterka is a STUD and is lethal the moment he steps on the ice! I thought the same of Quinn and I'm shocked we don't see any of that this season. Hopefully the little positive signs turn into a coming out party one of these games!

Dahlin NEEDED that goal and finish. I believe it will help to foster his confidence as our leader and drive his play. Captain my captain!!

It was nice to see Tuch score and be rewarded for his night in and night our efforts and high motor. What a pass from McCleod who has been an AWESOME pick up and should be a sign to GMKA that moving prospects for established NHL talent works and is now what this team needs! We cannot keep all our chips, move more in!

That was a statement game for the Sabres and I'm predicting them to have 7-2 record (over those 9 games and 11-9-1 overall) when they return home to deliver 2 more wins, as they bookend the greatest holiday of all time, THANKSGIVING! A holiday where they're no expectation of gifts. You're surrounded by friends, family, good food and drink, football, and it is social acceptable to unbutton your pants and fall asleep on the couch!! This year, I'm thankful for Lindy Ruff!

Go Sabres!!!!

[DarthEbriate]

8 minutes ago, JustOneParade said:

How anyone who has watched the Sabres power play this season NOT endorse what the Sabres did at the end there is beyond me. 

Don't look now, but the Sabres PP is running at 30% since they scored their first goal. Zucker on PP1 and running the puck to him below the net, plus Dahlin and Benson returning to health, have been the keys. 

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You forgot about Clifton?   Clifton is a big hitter and a very tough player.  He blasted a few Blues forwards last night in fact.  He is small (short) but he plays a physical game.  He can more than hold his own against any middleweight in fisticuffs too.  The youtube videos of his hockey fights bear this out. 

We just need a bigger version of that, with top 4 skills, to pair with Power.   Add this player, and a physical top 6 player, and we are a serious team.  

Dahlin is physical whether this board wants to admit that or not

[SwampD]

Non-physicality aside (it’s just not his game), Power was great last night. When he is moving the puck out of the D zone (either through skating or passing) he is something to watch. The other stuff will come with age/experience.

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You forgot about Clifton?   Clifton is a big hitter and a very tough player.  He blasted a few Blues forwards last night in fact.  He is small (short) but he plays a physical game.  He can more than hold his own against any middleweight in fisticuffs too.  The youtube videos of his hockey fights bear this out. 

We just need a bigger version of that, with top 4 skills, to pair with Power.   Add this player, and a physical top 6 player, and we are a serious team.  

So add a top 4 defender and a top 6 player. Sounds easy.

[freester]

Power has been playing great. Last pm he made some mistakes but he is developing into a top pair defender.  Defenseman take longer to develop. He’s so young still 

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, WhenWillItEnd66 said:

Ok, a couple of quick thoughts:

- Rum and Sabres do not mix well! LOL Does not ease the pain, makes it worse

- Our defense is too soft and needs to attack when the opponent comes in our zone and not back off! Dahlin should not have backed off on that 2nd goal. (Levi should have saved that!)

- 3rd Blues goal was a unlucky bounce. that went in. It happens when bodies are all over in front of the net.

- NHL and Refs are horrible. That goal should have counted!

- A weird game as you can see the Sabres fighting hard at times and other they backed off and let the Blues dictate the game. 

- Benson, Cozens, McLeod were monsters tonight!! Dahlin made up for his blunder with a great PP goal!

- Quinn is going to be my new whipping boy until he finds himself again. As far as i am concerned, he needs to be benched or traded. 

 

Other then that a fun drunk Sabres game!! LOL 

Rum?  Is that the stuff they put in sugar drinks and feed to women on cruise ships?  

"one bourbon, one scotch, and one beer ..."  

 

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

So add a top 4 defender and a top 6 player. Sounds easy.

Well it is not has hard as Adams makes it either.   We certainly have the assets and cap space to add at least one of them, and not doing that was an issue with the off season IMO.  

Sometimes you find these players on other teams and they breakout after a trade ... just like many of the former Sabres seem to do when they leave Buffalo.  

It can be done.  

[SwampD]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

So add a top 4 defender and a top 6 player. Sounds easy.

Only, that’s what probably half the teams in the league think they need.

If not every team.

[LETSTUCHINGO]

13 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Non-physicality aside (it’s just not his game), Power was great last night. When he is moving the puck out of the D zone (either through skating or passing) he is something to watch. The other stuff will come with age/experience.

I don't know what you're watching, but I'm not seeing the same thing. Saying "it's just not his game" is a copout if I've ever heard it. In one breath you agree he's young and Dmen take longer to develop and in the other breath you say it is just not his game. Should he not develop it? Should he not be working on it to become a complete player? Would he not be better if he did? You can't have it both ways. I believe he will develop it under Ruff, but he hasn't yet and it costs the team. Has he been playing better than last year, 100 percent! That isn't saying much! He still has a long way to go. He is definitely not something to watch at this point, YET!

Edited November 15 by LETSTUCHINGO

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Well it is not has hard as Adams makes it either.   We certainly have the assets and cap space to add at least one of them, and not doing that was an issue with the off season IMO.  

Sometimes you find these players on other teams and they breakout after a trade ... just like many of the former Sabres seem to do when they leave Buffalo.  

It can be done.  

Adams believes he added the top 4 defender. He may add a forward. 

[Pimlach]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Dahlin is physical whether this board wants to admit that or not

Agree on Dahlin.  He is physical and is playing much better the past few weeks.   Seem to be skating faster, and no longer favoring something.  I think he is fine with Byram.  

Clifton is physical on the 3rd pair.  He does ok with Bryson/Gilbert and he is decent on PK.   Muel struggled on 3rd pair and on PK.  

2nd pair of Power and Bryson/Joker is lacking on the physical side but they have puck moving skill. 

Bryson looks better to me when he is not with Power. 

 

[dudacek]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No.  This team is not better with McLeod and Byram.  Cheaper in the short-term, but both are RFAs at year's end.  Also younger as well.  However, Byram is a disaster defensively and that erases much if not all his skill on offense.    Byram is -15 in HDCF/HDCA.  Power is nearly as bad at -11.  Dahlin by comparison is +16 and he has had his own struggles this season.  

Sometimes it's OK to actually look at real goals for and against — the things that actually win hockey games.

Byram is +9 for the season. He has 11 points, all of them at even strength — top 5 among all NHL D in even-strength points.

Since Oct. 31 — roughly when he was elevated to the 1st pair, this is his stat line:

 

Trust your eyes, like Lindy does. Can you imagine this D corps right now with Jokiharju and Samuelsson eating Byram's minutes?

Byram  was brought in to be a top 4 defenceman and so far he's delivered.

Meanwhile

• Mittelstadt: 6/10/16/-11 has 8 points at even strength and wins 41.2% of his faceoffs
• McLeod: 5/6/11/+7 kills penalties and wins 52% of his faceoffs

Way early to judge overall, but initial returns on Byram and McLeod for Mitts and Savoie have given the Sabres exactly what I hoped it would.

Edited November 15 by dudacek

[Pimlach]

17 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Adams believes he added the top 4 defender. He may add a forward. 

Adams did add a top 4 with Byram.  That is not even debatable.  If only Samuelsson was available and still playing like a top 4.  

Did Adams see that Ruff started the season with  Samuelsson on the 3rd pair and Joker on the first pair? 

Does it tell Adams anything that Joker cannot crack the line up and that Muel was struggling on the 3rd pair and on the PK?  

[SwampD]

27 minutes ago, LETSTUCHINGO said:

I don't know what you're watching, but I'm not seeing the same thing. Saying "it's just not his game" is a copout if I've ever heard it. In one breath you agree he's young and Dmen take longer to develop and in the other breath you say it is just not his game. Should he not develop it? Should he not be working on it to become a complete player? Would he not be better if he did? You can't have it both ways. I believe he will develop it under Ruff, but he hasn't yet and it costs the team. Has he been playing better than last year, 100 percent! That isn't saying much! He still has a long way to go. He is definitely not something to watch at this point, YET!

So you agree with me, then?

[French Collection]

46 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

You forgot about Clifton?   Clifton is a big hitter and a very tough player.  He blasted a few Blues forwards last night in fact.  He is small (short) but he plays a physical game.  He can more than hold his own against any middleweight in fisticuffs too.  The youtube videos of his hockey fights bear this out. 

We just need a bigger version of that, with top 4 skills, to pair with Power.   Add this player, and a physical top 6 player, and we are a serious team.  

IMO, Pesce was an ideal candidate for this role when he was available last year.

[Pimlach]

1 minute ago, French Collection said:

IMO, Pesce was an ideal candidate for this role when he was available last year.

Rumor has it that Pesce said no.  

[mjd1001]

I'm happy overall with the Defensive unit.  Clifton and Bryston or Samuelsson (or someone else) can be my 3rd pair getting 13-15 minutes even strength ice time per game.  If one or 2 of them could kill penalties, even the better.

Dahlin, Power, and Byrum are fine/really good in the top 4. Now just get one more guy to fill in.  I don't care who plays with who, I dont' care if you move them around. I think they are close to having a quality NHL defensive core.

[Pimlach]

36 minutes ago, LETSTUCHINGO said:

I don't know what you're watching, but I'm not seeing the same thing. Saying "it's just not his game" is a copout if I've ever heard it. In one breath you agree he's young and Dmen take longer to develop and in the other breath you say it is just not his game. Should he not develop it? Should he not be working on it to become a complete player? Would he not be better if he did? You can't have it both ways. I believe he will develop it under Ruff, but he hasn't yet and it costs the team. Has he been playing better than last year, 100 percent! That isn't saying much! He still has a long way to go. He is definitely not something to watch at this point, YET!

I have to agree with @SwampD in that there are aspects of his game that are very good right now.  I doubt Lindy gives him 23 mins a game otherwise. 

ESPN pointed out his problem handling bodies around the net on several replays, and then on one replay they highlighted that he did a very good job of using his body and his stick as leverage, and he kept the slot clear for Levi at a crucial point in the 3rd period.   

He can do it, and he is actually big enough and smart enough to be good at it.  He just has to get into more involved physically and build confidence.  I don't think it fair to say "its not his game" and let it go though.  It is a facet of the game that he must be willing to do.  

I remember back when Dahlin was getting pushed around and he decided he had enough and started pushing back.  It was right after he spent time with Hedberg at the All Star break.   Power needs that same revelation and it has to come from within himself.  

[Flashsabre]

If Pitt continues to slide I think Pettersen is the exact type of Dman they need to add.

I agree with others that they need a F with some muscle that goes to the net regularly. Not sure who that is.

[dudacek]

2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I'm happy overall with the Defensive unit.  Clifton and Bryston or Samuelsson (or someone else) can be my 3rd pair getting 13-15 minutes even strength ice time per game.  If one or 2 of them could kill penalties, even the better.

Dahlin, Power, and Byrum are fine/really good in the top 4. Now just get one more guy to fill in.  I don't care who plays with who, I dont' care if you move them around. I think they are close to having a quality NHL defensive core.

Their top 3 are #6, 9 and 18 right now in NHL scoring among D — #1, 7, and 25 in ES scoring.

Buffalo's 3rd-highest-scoring defenceman would be #1 on 21 teams.

There's been a good amount of fancystat dumping around here on Byram's relative SA%. His actual SA% is a fraction over 50%, as is Power's. Dahlin is over 57%

Their issues has been making the big mistake, especially Power, but that kind of offence from the backline is rare and something to build an identity around.

[Flashsabre]

There might not be a Dman in the league that is as impressive in throwing the long exit stretch pass up ice as Power. He has great mobility and hockey IQ.

He will be frustrating in his zone but I think that aspect will come with time.

Edited November 15 by Flashsabre

[mjd1001]

2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Their top 3 are #6, 9 and 18 right now in NHL scoring among D — #1, 7, and 25 in ES scoring.

Buffalo's 3rd-highest-scoring defenceman would be #1 on 21 teams.

There's been a good amount of fancystat dumping around here on Byram's relative SA%. His actual SA% is a fraction over 50%, as is Power's. Dahlin is over 57%

Their issues has been making the big mistake, especially Power, but that kind of offence from the backline is rare and something to build an identity around.

Agreed.

Those 3 guys are potentially very good/great puck movers, which is an under-rated aspect of defensive zone play.

When the puck is in your own zone, get to the puck quickly (skating), control the puck (hands) make carry the puck out of the zone (Skating) or make a good break-out pass (passing).....well needless to say getting the puck out of your zone effectively is good defense in itself. They all have that ability, I am thinking/hoping they will get better with the above and make less mistakes with continued experience.