Mattias Samuelsson out long term, again.

[Believer]

3 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

I submit the revocation of the nickname “Muel”.  A mule is a Beast of burden. He is neither.  His name shall be Elijah/Mr. Glass. 

“Glass” for short. 

Adams should trade him now if he can find a taker. 

Time to move on, imo.

[LGR4GM]

55 minutes ago, Believer said:

“Glass” for short. 

Adams should trade him now if he can find a taker. 

Time to move on, imo.

Can't trade him while injured in all likelihood and personally, I don't think Adams has the stomach to trade his guys. His guys being the players he's decided to invest in. 

[Believer]

Any further investment in Samuelson is a low probability payoff, imo. 

According to Proximity ai, Mattias Samuelsson has played 150 games for the Buffalo Sabres over nearly four years. The Sabres have played approximately 295 games since his debut in the 2020-2021 season. Therefore, Samuelsson has participated in about 50.8% of the games during his tenure with the team, primarily due to injuries limiting his availability[1][3][4].

Sources
[1] NHL Buzz: Samuelsson out ‘weeks,’ Thompson, Luukkonen day to day for Sabres https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-buzz-news-and-notes-november-13-2024
[2] Mattias Samuelsson, Buffalo Sabres, D - News, Stats, Bio https://www.cbssports.com/nhl/players/3158655/mattias-samuelsson/
[3] Mattias Samuelsson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/s/samuema02.html
[4] Buffalo Sabres Top 25 Under 25: #10 Mattias Samuelsson https://www.diebytheblade.com/buffalo-sabres-top-25-under-25-10-mattias-samuelsson/
[5] Mattias Samuelsson (Buffalo Sabres) Stats - Flashscore.com https://www.flashscore.com/player/samuelsson-mattias/ML8sCJsA/
[6] Mattias Samuelsson Stats And News | NHL.com https://www.nhl.com/sabres/player/mattias-samuelsson-8480807
[7] Mattias Samuelsson (Buffalo Sabres) Stats - Flashscore https://www.flashscoreusa.com/player/samuelsson-mattias/ML8sCJsA/
[8] Mattias Samuelsson Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=196144
[9] Mattias Samuelsson Stats, Profile, Bio, Analysis and More | Buffalo Sabres | Sports Forecaster https://sportsforecaster.com/nhl/p/27213/Mattias Samuelsson

Think it’s bad for players to have an multiple injury-prone player hanging around. Hockey is a violent sport. Players don’t need a constant reminder.

Know you are right it will be nearly impossible to trade him while he is injured.

Then again, Adams took damaged goods with Tuch in the Eichel trade.

If Samuelson truly has future value in the eyes of some GM, put a package together with a prospect and get a rugged veteran D and a prospect back in return.

You make a good point. Agree Adams can’t admit his own player mistakes and move on. 

Many here blame Pegula for his involvement in player decisions.

Maybe.

Frankly think Adams is unfit as Sabre GM if he can’t get Pegula’s buy in to his ideas.

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

He doesn't necessarily have to get traded in the next couple seasons.  Why not weaponize that cap space the way Vegas does?  Mule goes out on LTIR after getting his 15-55 games in, allowing the Sabres to make some big moves bringing FAs in a the trade deadline, and then comes back game 1 of the playoffs if needed.  

Mule has been pretty bad this season before going out, but he's still only 24 and has time to pull it together.  I'd rather weaponize that cap space for the playoffs (or making that final push for the playoffs), and wait until he gets some games in and improves his play to increase his value before trying move him.

[WhenWillItEnd66]

I am sorry, but he needs to be bought out next year. He is a waste of a roster spot that cannot stay healthy enough to stay on the roster, nor unable to do what he was hired to do!! He cannot be a physical defensive defenseman as he breaks when hit!! TBH this last injury is 100% not his fault and horribly bad luck!! On the other side of the coin though, he is not doing what he should be. Cut the loss, let him go and replace him with a real rugged physical defensive DMAN!!!!! 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

He doesn't necessarily have to get traded in the next couple seasons.  Why not weaponize that cap space the way Vegas does?  Mule goes out on LTIR after getting his 15-55 games in, allowing the Sabres to make some big moves bringing FAs in a the trade deadline, and then comes back game 1 of the playoffs if needed.  

Mule has been pretty bad this season before going out, but he's still only 24 and has time to pull it together.  I'd rather weaponize that cap space for the playoffs (or making that final push for the playoffs), and wait until he gets some games in and improves his play to increase his value before trying move him.

Because with $8MM or so in available cap space and his contract only being ~$5MM they can't realistically get to a point at present to even get any cap help from BF-LTIR.  And, as much as it would be a great thing to have some player(s) brought in to make the cap an actual constraint on the roster wherein his next injury could bring some relief through that mechanism; am not holding my breath waiting for it to happen.

[Thorner]

We are looking to buy him out? Contract isn’t looking too good? WHO could have seen this coming. I ask you, who. WHOM

[LGR4GM]

15 minutes ago, Thorner said:

We are looking to buy him out? Contract isn’t looking too good? WHO could have seen this coming. I ask you, who. WHOM

Honestly convinced at this point if we put every move here and debated it, we would be a better team because NFW anyone here would have been like "oh yea Mattias Samuelsson, he has 0 nhl goals and only like 50 something games... 7 year deal!" 

[That Aud Smell]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Honestly convinced at this point if we put every move here and debated it, we would be a better team because NFW anyone here would have been like "oh yea Mattias Samuelsson, he has 0 nhl goals and only like 50 something games... 7 year deal!" 

This is reminding me -- was it @Eleven who was just furious with the signing because the guy hadn't scored a goal (or come close to it) in his however many NHL games?

I remember defending the signing at the time. Saying the Sabres had a cost-controlled 4/5 and PK d-man for the foreseeable future.

That position didn't age well.

[mjd1001]

First of all, the injuries are an issue.  We can't get by that.

But beyond that, he HAS played well in the past in his own end, what has changed since then?  I think he has the ability, is it a mental thing?  If he did it before, you would think he can do it again (hopefully) and if that is the case, the contract isn't a huge problem.

The other positive about him, I think he is good, a VERY good penalty killer overall.  His size/reach allows him to cover a lot of ground down low without moving too much.  He just needs to learn when to try to move someone out of the front of the net, and needs to continue to get strong enough to do so.

Is he able to do all of the above? I don't know. I think he can, but again, you can't get beyond him always being injured it seems.

With the Sabres having Power, Dahlin, and possibly Byrum long term eating up a ton of minutes, Samuelsson doesn't have to be anything more than a 14-15 minute per game 3rd pairing guy. If he gives you 3-4 of those minutes per game killing penalties, AND he can just get CLOSE to the form he had a couple years ago for the even strength 10-12 minutes per game, then again, he's not a problem.

There are a lot of "ifs" up there though..

[EM88]

He has never played more than 55 games in a season and he is hurt again. Not ideal.

$4.2 million per year I could live with if he can stay healthy.

I try to look at everyone if you take the name off of it.  Imagine If the Sabres had an opportunity to pick up a D-man from another team, someone who was 24, signed long term for $4m per season, was a high 2nd round pick, and had flashes in the past of being really good.  I would think there would be people who would think that is someone they want to take a chance on.

I know some others do not. But for those who would, you do not have to trade assets for that guy. He's here already. You just have to get him to figure out his game again.

[Brawndo]

On 11/13/2024 at 12:38 PM, LGR4GM said:

His buyout is 714k a year until 2035.

 

Offer him in a trade for a late pick with no retention or buy him out. With the cap rising and serviceable defensemen available on cheap deals, absorbing that cap hit is easy 

[John Tucker]

Good... Hopefully he never suits up with us again

[Night Train]

Adams blew it with him. He got big $ after playing a little more than 50 games. Beyond stupid. Now they are stuck with him. 

[French Collection]

Bogo 2.0.

[St. Pete Gogolak]

Waive him and let him play in Rochester.  Nobody in their right mind is going to claim him and if they do, problem solved. Get a bad contract off the books without a buyout.

[LGR4GM]

I'd keep him until Novikov or R Johnson is a viable nhl player. 

[mjd1001]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I'd keep him until Novikov or R Johnson is a viable nhl player. 

I forgot about Johnson. He was up and down, but he did have some good games last year.  I wonder how well he is playing in Rochester?  You have 'depth' here right now, but if Johnson is playing well, I wouldn't mind seeing him up here.  Maybe more as a replacement for Jokiharju than Samuelsson though, in terms of style.

[DarthEbriate]

52 minutes ago, Night Train said:

Adams blew it with him. He got big $ after playing a little more than 50 games. Beyond stupid. Now they are stuck with him. 

The payment was premature, but the money wasn't big given the term. Right or wrong, they envisioned him as a 2nd pair d-man. $4M for a 2nd pair (maybe even 1st pair if he had totally gelled with Dahlin and continued to improve all-around) and top-pair PK d-man on the team is an easy contract, and by the end of his term would be a steal given the rising cap. It's in alignment with Zub, Manson, Tanev/McCabe, etc.

The issue is the chronic injuries which weren't yet chronic at the time of the contract. Trouble is, the injuries haven't just taken him off the ice, they've changed him as a player (he's less physical/engaged) and stymied his development/progress.

[Porous Five Hole]

29 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I forgot about Johnson. He was up and down, but he did have some good games last year.  I wonder how well he is playing in Rochester?  You have 'depth' here right now, but if Johnson is playing well, I wouldn't mind seeing him up here.  Maybe more as a replacement for Jokiharju than Samuelsson though, in terms of style.

RyJo has been steady this year in ROC all while goaltending hasn’t been great.  

He’s another left hand shooter though.  

[Jorcus]

25 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

RyJo has been steady this year in ROC all while goaltending hasn’t been great.  

He’s another left hand shooter though.  

Novikov is the more logical replacement for Sammi. He is a big banging D man who was plus 20 as a rookie and is plus 6 this year. The question is he fast enough?

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Jorcus said:

Novikov is the more logical replacement for Sammi. He is a big banging D man who was plus 20 as a rookie and is plus 6 this year. The question is he fast enough?

I don't think he's ready. 

[Thorner]

18 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

This is reminding me -- was it @Eleven who was just furious with the signing because the guy hadn't scored a goal (or come close to it) in his however many NHL games?

I remember defending the signing at the time. Saying the Sabres had a cost-controlled 4/5 and PK d-man for the foreseeable future.

That position didn't age well.

I don’t know that anyone was as outspoken against the deal as me tbh. Don’t really agree with the premise you responded to that the board would have made a different decision: the board loved the deal IIRC

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

The payment was premature, but the money wasn't big given the term. Right or wrong, they envisioned him as a 2nd pair d-man. $4M for a 2nd pair (maybe even 1st pair if he had totally gelled with Dahlin and continued to improve all-around) and top-pair PK d-man on the team is an easy contract, and by the end of his term would be a steal given the rising cap. It's in alignment with Zub, Manson, Tanev/McCabe, etc.

The issue is the chronic injuries which weren't yet chronic at the time of the contract. Trouble is, the injuries haven't just taken him off the ice, they've changed him as a player (he's less physical/engaged) and stymied his development/progress.

The issue is, as I said at the time, there was no reason to pay him when we did. He wasn’t going to bump up his AAV - was never going to be a stat monger even if he excelled, and he didn’t excel 

there was only risk to the deal, no upside: and the risk bore out 

Edited Friday at 05:04 PM by Thorner

[DarthEbriate]

55 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't think he's ready. 

Exactly. That's what got them into this situation with Samuelsson in the first place. He got 12 games with the Sabres in 20-21, which is about right as a look-see, but they also had Bryson in the NHL the entire year and he played 38 games. They could've both been in Rochester except for 8-10 games.

Throwing on the ol' Hindsight Hat, other than "wanting to be here/clearing out the old core" message, they could've just extended McCabe for the 4x$4M (and likely less) he got from Chicago before UFA hit preceding that 2020-21 season. Then, Samuelsson gets bridged and you have a decision this past 2024 summer on whether to re-sign McCabe as Toronto did, or go to Muel on a long-term deal. Extending McCabe doesn't prevent Adams from moving Risto for a temporary Hagg. The team has been lacking a consistent veteran D, until... Clifton? McCabe has been just fine as a #4 in Toronto the past couple seasons and while perhaps overextended on a bad Chicago team, he was still reliable.

[Taro T]

6 hours ago, Thorner said:

I don’t know that anyone was as outspoken against the deal as me tbh. Don’t really agree with the premise you responded to that the board would have made a different decision: the board loved the deal IIRC

The issue is, as I said at the time, there was no reason to pay him when we did. He wasn’t going to bump up his AAV - was never going to be a stat monger even if he excelled, and he didn’t excel 

there was only risk to the deal, no upside: and the risk bore out 

In hindsight, yeah, the deal doesn't look good and good call on not liking it at the time.  But still don't see that deal handcuffing them in any way for at least another 2 seasons if even then.

And still prefer the idea of locking the guys up that they see as being part of the "future core" sooner than later.  Especially knowing as we do now that they aren't going to be legit fishers in the FA pond.  They simply need to be better at identifying WHICH guys will legitimately be key components.  (And trading Savoie away indicates that they MIGHT be getting better at doing so.  (No need to look at the Mittelstadt trade for tea leave pondering. 😉 ))