We know they "can" do it when they want to. Will they "choose" to do it every night? That's the burning question with this team

[matter2003]

Last night, much like the game against the Stars showed this team can absolutely play the style of game Ruff wants them to play.  Tough, physical, all over the pucks, using their speed to disrupt defensively and cause issues in the offensive zone for opposing defensemen, crashing the net on rush chances and going there on long point shots to screen the goalie, etc...

I mean when Tage Thompson is crashing the crease and getting dirty goals while on the ground with bodies on top of him, you know the team received the message loud and clear.  But how long will it resonate with them?  One game, two games?  A week?  Can they sustain it?

The question then becomes "If you know this is what you are supposed to do, and you see the positive results when you play this way, then why don't you choose to do it every night?" 

Because if they choose to play like this every night, they would be a playoff team, no question.  Why do they choose not to do it? It's a choice. This team has to break their bad habits of only putting out effort and being willing to do the little detailed "hard" things right that don't show up in the box score when "things get tough" or "the coaches get on us" and make that their team standard on a nightly basis.  This shouldn't be something that gets them praised, it should be a given and what is expected of them on a nightly basis.  Mostly from the players themselves.  

Can this team finally hold themselves and each other accountable for playing this way on any given night?  

Can Ruff finally get through to them where all the other coaches have failed?  

Honestly, I am hopeful but I don't know...

Edited November 6 by matter2003

[PromoTheRobot]

I think the opponent has something to say about whether we "do it" or not. 

[DarthEbriate]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I think the opponent has something to say about whether we "do it" or not. 

It’s really a do it or do it not situation. There is no trying and then saying you did some good things. 

[mjd1001]

I think its part 'playing this hard' and half 'just how good are you'?

If you aren't good enough, you can push all you want and sometimes you just won't be 'good enough' to get to that spot quick enough, to be able to hold your ground in front of the opposing net, or to make that breakout pass from your own end where the difference in skill of having the puck go 1 inch from where you want it is the difference between you setting up a 2-on-1 for your team, or the pass getting intercepted and coming back the other way for a goal.

On the other hand, yes, some of it IS effort. Some of it is willing to DO things you don't want to..or do things you aren't used to doing but the coach is trying to drill through your head to do.

Oh, and then of course, as PTR stated above is the other team having a good game or an 'off' game, because you are competing against them.

Yeah, according to Lindy there are players not playing as well as he wants, but even then, is it "effort"?  Or is it "they aren't listening/being where they are supposed to be"?

San Jose was one of the worst teams in recent memory last year...yet almost 1 out of every 4 games they beat a 'better' team? was that they tried in 1 out of 4 games? Was it the other team didn't try in those games?  Its really a sliding scale every game, its a bunch of things combined.

Its a bit of all of the above.  

Edited November 6 by mjd1001

[matter2003]

43 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I think its part 'playing this hard' and half 'just how good are you'?

If you aren't good enough, you can push all you want and sometimes you just won't be 'good enough' to get to that spot quick enough, to be able to hold your ground in front of the opposing net, or to make that breakout pass from your own end where the difference in skill of having the puck go 1 inch from where you want it is the difference between you setting up a 2-on-1 for your team, or the pass getting intercepted and coming back the other way for a goal.

On the other hand, yes, some of it IS effort. Some of it is willing to DO things you don't want to..or do things you aren't used to doing but the coach is trying to drill through your head to do.

Oh, and then of course, as PTR stated above is the other team having a good game or an 'off' game, because you are competing against them.

Yeah, according to Lindy there are players not playing as well as he wants, but even then, is it "effort"?  Or is it "they aren't listening/being where they are supposed to be"?

San Jose was one of the worst teams in recent memory last year...yet almost 1 out of every 4 games they beat a 'better' team? was that they tried in 1 out of 4 games? Was it the other team didn't try in those games?  Its really a sliding scale every game, its a bunch of things combined.

Its a bit of all of the above.  

Good enough to make the playoffs. Hell, they almost did that playing no defense and no goaltending. 

 

[Demoted]

I just hope Lindy keeps his foot on these guys necks until they can learn consistency. 

[Pimlach]

Consistently “playing hard “ has not been in the Sabres DNA for a very long time.  It will take time to get it there but last night was a good start. 

Ruff is pushing their buttons.  Healthy scratches, big performance by UPL, clean hard hits, fighting for the right reasons, crashing the net, better special teams.  
 

Now do it on the road against the Rangers.  Consistency is the key.  Winning will get contagious if they are  willing to do what it takes to win.  

Edited November 6 by Pimlach

[Doohicksie]

They beat an Ottawa team that, aside from Tkachuk, was soft was butter.  They were not very defensively hard to play against.  Most teams are.

[Pimlach]

20 minutes ago, Doohicksie said:

They beat an Ottawa team that, aside from Tkachuk, was soft was butter.  They were not very defensively hard to play against.  Most teams are.

Ottawa is much better than you indicate at this point in the season, and just like Buffalo, they are team looking to improve. Despite giving up 5 last night they have a +5 goal differential so to say they are soft defensively has not been the case on the scoreboard.  

It was an excellent win against a team that is a direct competitor in our quest to make the playoffs.   No, we are not a Cup contender, but last night was a nice step for this group.  

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

Ottawa is much better than you indicate at this point in the season, and just like Buffalo, they are team looking to improve. Despite giving up 5 last night they have a +5 goal differential so to say they are soft defensively has not been the case on the scoreboard.  

It was an excellent win against a team that is a direct competitor in our quest to make the playoffs.   No, we are not a Cup contender, but last night was a nice step for this group.  

Ottawa is 5-1 at home and 1-5 on the road. So I'm not going to get carried away overinterpreting our good play against them last night. Their disparity in play between home and away games indicates that they have not established a consistent baseline of play. I thought that Ullmark struggled last night. He gave up a couple of very weak goals, crushing goals.

I'm not complaining. It was a good win for us. If this style of play would have been replicated in our other games we would have at least two to three more wins. With Lindy at the helm I have more confidence that the players will conform to a higher and more consistent standard of play than with Granato. 

[Night Train]

Keep Muel and Joker off the bench. They hurt the team. 

[Flashsabre]

23 minutes ago, Night Train said:

Keep Muel and Joker off the bench. They hurt the team. 

And Cozens and Quinn need to join them.

[Doohicksie]

5 hours ago, Pimlach said:

so to say they are soft defensively

They weren't very good defensively last night.  But when I said soft, I meant in general.  Take Tkachuk off the team and they'd be like the Sabres for much of the drought.  During play they just didn't have that much physicality and when they did it was not effective against the Sabres.  They were Ristolainen-style showcase hits that get the crowd of their seats but weren't very effective in turning the play.  Contrast, for instance, with the tenacious checking of the Panthers.  Not so many big hits but it's just hard to do anything against them.  If the Sabres played FLA the say way they played Ottawa, they'd have gotten spanked.

[Pimlach]

2 hours ago, Doohicksie said:

They weren't very good defensively last night.  But when I said soft, I meant in general.  Take Tkachuk off the team and they'd be like the Sabres for much of the drought.  During play they just didn't have that much physicality and when they did it was not effective against the Sabres.  They were Ristolainen-style showcase hits that get the crowd of their seats but weren't very effective in turning the play.  Contrast, for instance, with the tenacious checking of the Panthers.  Not so many big hits but it's just hard to do anything against them.  If the Sabres played FLA the say way they played Ottawa, they'd have gotten spanked.

I don’t think so on the bold.  

[PerreaultForever]

This is the burning question but I am encouraged with Lindy sitting 2 actual players who are underperforming and not just a marginal guy. Quinn needs to sit as well but it's a start and hopefully the message starts to get through. I see signs of good things this year. The framework is there. They just have to develop that culture and keep giving consistent effort. They've never had to do it here before so we shall see how they respond. 

[Alaska John]

17 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Last night, much like the game against the Stars showed this team can absolutely play the style of game Ruff wants them to play.  Tough, physical, all over the pucks, using their speed to disrupt defensively and cause issues in the offensive zone for opposing defensemen, crashing the net on rush chances and going there on long point shots to screen the goalie, etc...

I mean when Tage Thompson is crashing the crease and getting dirty goals while on the ground with bodies on top of him, you know the team received the message loud and clear.  But how long will it resonate with them?  One game, two games?  A week?  Can they sustain it?

The question then becomes "If you know this is what you are supposed to do, and you see the positive results when you play this way, then why don't you choose to do it every night?" 

Because if they choose to play like this every night, they would be a playoff team, no question.  Why do they choose not to do it? It's a choice. This team has to break their bad habits of only putting out effort and being willing to do the little detailed "hard" things right that don't show up in the box score when "things get tough" or "the coaches get on us" and make that their team standard on a nightly basis.  This shouldn't be something that gets them praised, it should be a given and what is expected of them on a nightly basis.  Mostly from the players themselves.  

Can this team finally hold themselves and each other accountable for playing this way on any given night?  

Can Ruff finally get through to them where all the other coaches have failed?  

Honestly, I am hopeful but I don't know...

Agreed.  Coaches can do only so much to address this effort issue.  It's up to the leadership among the players to get everyone working hard, together, and to call each other out when the production is not there.  Ruff's a good coach but he's an old man, and the current players don't know how hard he played back in the day.  Ruff was probably playing with/against the fathers or grandfathers of the kids down in Rochester.  Having Ruff say things does not mean these kids are listening.  

I think the player with the personality to be an effective captain is Tuch.  Dahlin is injured and can't play to his normal standards, and the kids see what he's doing now and thing THAT'S the standard.  

[Mango]

21 hours ago, matter2003 said:

Last night, much like the game against the Stars showed this team can absolutely play the style of game Ruff wants them to play.  Tough, physical, all over the pucks, using their speed to disrupt defensively and cause issues in the offensive zone for opposing defensemen, crashing the net on rush chances and going there on long point shots to screen the goalie, etc...

I mean when Tage Thompson is crashing the crease and getting dirty goals while on the ground with bodies on top of him, you know the team received the message loud and clear.  But how long will it resonate with them?  One game, two games?  A week?  Can they sustain it?

The question then becomes "If you know this is what you are supposed to do, and you see the positive results when you play this way, then why don't you choose to do it every night?" 

Because if they choose to play like this every night, they would be a playoff team, no question.  Why do they choose not to do it? It's a choice. This team has to break their bad habits of only putting out effort and being willing to do the little detailed "hard" things right that don't show up in the box score when "things get tough" or "the coaches get on us" and make that their team standard on a nightly basis.  This shouldn't be something that gets them praised, it should be a given and what is expected of them on a nightly basis.  Mostly from the players themselves.  

Can this team finally hold themselves and each other accountable for playing this way on any given night?  

Can Ruff finally get through to them where all the other coaches have failed?  

Honestly, I am hopeful but I don't know...

I have been iffy on Tage the last year. I am cautious around any player under this ownership and regime.

BUT....

Tage has been really good this year. Even when the team has been bad and lacked effort he has been all over the place forechecking and backchecking.  He has carried a bunch of lazy periods. The guy is all in on turning this thing around under Ruff. I am here for it. Based on on-ice play I wish Tage had the C right now. And that isn't meant to be a direct shot at Ras, but Tage is playing with much more tenacity. 

 

[matter2003]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

I have been iffy on Tage the last year. I am cautious around any player under this ownership and regime.

BUT....

Tage has been really good this year. Even when the team has been bad and lacked effort he has been all over the place forechecking and backchecking.  He has carried a bunch of lazy periods. The guy is all in on turning this thing around under Ruff. I am here for it. Based on on-ice play I wish Tage had the C right now. And that isn't meant to be a direct shot at Ras, but Tage is playing with much more tenacity. 

 

Dahlin might be too emotionally all over the place to be a guy that can be counted on day in and day out to be even keel and keep the team on the proper path.  He has let his emotions get the best of him way too many times so far this year. Breaking sticks, getting pissed off about mistakes, causing a goal against last game by getting involved in a scrap in the neutral zone for like 20 seconds instead of either dropping the gloves and fighting or disengaging and getting back in the play.  

He has a lot to learn about being a leader and hopefully he learns quick.  I get it...he cares...a lot.  But you have to channel that into positively displaying it instead of negatively.  It's OK to do it once in a while but 2-3x a game is just too much.  The effect wears off and you come across looking like an immature man child.

Edited November 7 by matter2003

[Pimlach]

50 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Dahlin might be too emotionally all over the place to be a guy that can be counted on day in and day out to be even keel and keep the team on the proper path.  He has let his emotions get the best of him way too many times so far this year. Breaking sticks, getting pissed off about mistakes, causing a goal against last game by getting involved in a scrap in the neutral zone for like 20 seconds instead of either dropping the gloves and fighting or disengaging and getting back in the play.  

He has a lot to learn about being a leader and hopefully he learns quick.  I get it...he cares...a lot.  But you have to channel that into positively displaying it instead of negatively.  It's OK to do it once in a while but 2-3x a game is just too much.  The effect wears off.

No doubt that when you watch the two in action, Dahlin and Tage, its Tage that stands out as the quiet leader while Dahlin shows a lot more emotion and at times some of it is unfortunately wasteful emotion. 

To the bold, this definitely happened last game.   Dahlin and the team would have been better off he just dropped the gloves and got the whistle (or not waste all that time in a senseless scrum), - instead they scored on Dahlin and Byram, both were late to the play and out of position.  Dahlin is still learning the nuances.   

 

[Doohicksie]

12 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I don’t think so on the bold.  

It'd be great if you're right... maybe you are.  But I didn't see the Sabres do anything extraordinary against Ottawa, they just benefited from the Sens' failure to even play up to that level.  My impression.  I'm not a fancy stats guy and can't back that up, it's just what it looked like to me.

[Mango]

The org cannot be afraid to bench/move on from anybody who refuses to. 

A little discussion over this in the GDT but Lindy is the new alpha in the room. I don't think 1) Granato had the stones to bench one of Adams guys and 2) Adams lets one of his core guys get benched without a fight. 

I am hoping that the fact that this is starting to happen signifies that there is some changes. 

[Big Guava]

On 11/6/2024 at 2:09 PM, Pimlach said:

Consistently “playing hard “ has not been in the Sabres DNA for a very long time.  It will take time to get it there but last night was a good start. 

Ruff is pushing their buttons.  Healthy scratches, big performance by UPL, clean hard hits, fighting for the right reasons, crashing the net, better special teams.  
 

Now do it on the road against the Rangers.  Consistency is the key.  Winning will get contagious if they are  willing to do what it takes to win.  

So far so good...they have dominated the first 25 minutes, now they just need to finish.

[Pimlach]

Sabres 6 Rangers 1 

Two big wins in a row.  
 

Saturday home matinee vs Calgary - they need to bring it again.  Make this the new normal 

Edited November 8 by Pimlach

[mjd1001]

Great game last night.  For myself, as I have said in another thread, I don't think 'big picture-playoffs or bust' as much as I used to.  To me each game is a single game, I try to enjoy it as simply one nights entertainment.

If I do look big picture though, I'm not buying in yet.  I'd like to see this team get into the top 8 of the conference and stay there for a bit before I change my thinking.  A big win against a top team helps, but they aren't close yet to where I need them to be to really even be thinking playoffs.

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, mjd1001 said:

Great game last night.  For myself, as I have said in another thread, I don't think 'big picture-playoffs or bust' as much as I used to.  To me each game is a single game, I try to enjoy it as simply one nights entertainment.

If I do look big picture though, I'm not buying in yet.  I'd like to see this team get into the top 8 of the conference and stay there for a bit before I change my thinking.  A big win against a top team helps, but they aren't close yet to where I need them to be to really even be thinking playoffs.

Yes true, long way to go.  They should still be looking at improving the top 6 too.