Its getting to be time to take the "C" away

[JP51]

Probably unpopular, probably doesnt fix fundamental composition problems... but it may send a message. If this type of play continues... say till December we are clearly out of a playoff spot. I am not against Lindy taking the C away leaving no Captain under the auspice of whom ever leads the team and steps forward gets the C. Happy to hear thoughts.. maybe too soon for this... but I am just thinking what does a coach do to send a message that the play is unacceptable and that performance will determine ice time and real leadership that exemplifies the "way we want to play" will be earned and not anointed. 

[Idemo Buffalo]

Why not just trade Dahlin away instead?  This way we will all know who is going to win the Stanley Cup well before it happens. 

Leadership isn't the problem with the Sabres. They have a Captain and 4 assistants, plus Lindy. Plenty of leaders.

Sabres problem is consistency. Lack of consistency often comes with a new coach and new system.

SEVENTY games left.

 

[JP51]

7 minutes ago, Idemo Buffalo said:

Why not just trade Dahlin away instead?  This way we will all know who is going to win the Stanley Cup well before it happens. 

Leadership isn't the problem with the Sabres. They have a Captain and 4 assistants, plus Lindy. Plenty of leaders.

Sabres problem is consistency. Lack of consistency often comes with a new coach and new system.

SEVENTY games left.

 

Well, I am not in favor of trading Dahlin but lol you are right, he probably goes on to win a cup if we do... with regards to Captain and assistants, yes we have them, yes all teams do... but titles do not make leaders... others willingness to follow their example do. If you are satisfied with what you are seeing this year and the past 13 (cause this year looks alot like the past 13) then power to you... but seeing the same effort, output, lack of aggression, and ultimately results as we have year after year after year leads one (or at least myself) to 1 conclusion, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... its probably a duck.  As you clearly value consistency I am fairly certain that they are the most consistent performing team over the past 14 years. Consistently losing, under performing and unwatchable....  I do admire your optimism, in the end I hope you are correct and that somehow this team magically transforms itself into a hockey team  from a team that looks like it is best constructed to play in the Ryder Cup not the Stanley cup... 

[Pimlach]

31 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Probably unpopular, probably doesnt fix fundamental composition problems... but it may send a message. If this type of play continues... say till December we are clearly out of a playoff spot. I am not against Lindy taking the C away leaving no Captain under the auspice of whom ever leads the team and steps forward gets the C. Happy to hear thoughts.. maybe too soon for this... but I am just thinking what does a coach do to send a message that the play is unacceptable and that performance will determine ice time and real leadership that exemplifies the "way we want to play" will be earned and not anointed. 

I think this would be a good way to break Dahlin's spirit.  You are suggesting to take away the C after only 12 games?  

Lindy would lose credibility.  Adams too.  And there will be even more heads shaking around the league.  

Just curious, where you around in 1977-78 when they took the C away from Schoney and gave it to Gare?   It was shocking for the fans and controversial for sure.  They finished with 105 points and were in the upper echelon of the league, but they lost to Philly in round two by 4-1.   Which became a habit.  

Whoever was wearing the C did not change the result.   You need high effort and commitment from more than the guys with the letters on their sweater.  

My vote is that making an example of Dahlin is targeting the wrong guy and an empty gesture.   

This is a time they need to pull together, play with more purpose, and figure it out.  

[Carmel Corn]

24 minutes ago, Idemo Buffalo said:

Why not just trade Dahlin away instead?  This way we will all know who is going to win the Stanley Cup well before it happens. 

Leadership isn't the problem with the Sabres. They have a Captain and 4 assistants, plus Lindy. Plenty of leaders.

Sabres problem is consistency. Lack of consistency often comes with a new coach and new system.

SEVENTY games left.

 

Quantity does not equal quality.  None of us are in the room, but it feels like there is still a leadership void on the team.  I see no “accountability” measures being taken for players who fail to perform.

Edited 12 hours ago by Carmel Corn

[Mr Peabody]

I’ve thought all along it was foolish to give anyone the C prior to a season with a new coach and new system.  Would do more harm than good to change at this point.  They didn’t learn a thing by giving a too young Jack the C and hoping he’d grow into it. 

[JP51]

17 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I think this would be a good way to break Dahlin's spirit.  You are suggesting to take away the C after only 12 games?  

Lindy would lose credibility.  Adams too.  And there will be even more heads shaking around the league.  

Just curious, where you around in 1977-78 when they took the C away from Schoney and gave it to Gare?   It was shocking for the fans and controversial for sure.  They finished with 105 points and were in the upper echelon of the league, but they lost to Philly in round two by 4-1.   Which became a habit.  

Whoever was wearing the C did not change the result.   You need high effort and commitment from more than the guys with the letters on their sweater.  

My vote is that making an example of Dahlin is targeting the wrong guy and an empty gesture.   

This is a time they need to pull together, play with more purpose, and figure it out.  

Fair point, although what I did say was if this continues thru December.... but it would be certain to have a bad effect on Dahlin even if it was December... maybe it wouldnt. I know this, he isnt playing up to par. Thus the question... I am expecting a wide range of thoughts... none of them wrong per se.  Thanks for yours

1 minute ago, Mr Peabody said:

I’ve thought all along it was foolish to give anyone the C prior to a season with a new coach and new system.  Would do more harm than good to change at this point.  They didn’t learn a thing by giving a too young Jack the C and hoping he’d grow into it. 

Thats kinda what I am thinking... they awarded it, maybe its better to have it earned. Lots of opinions here on this for sure... 

[7+6=13]

Good grief these threads .....

[JP51]

3 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

Good grief these threads .....

and yet here you are LOL... am I to assume your are not in favor of an open competition for the C? LOL 

[Idemo Buffalo]

Just now, JP51 said:

and yet here you are LOL... am I to assume your are not in favor of an open competition for the C? LOL 

There was an open competition for Captain. Dahlin has been being vetted/groomed for years. He is the face of the Sabres and by all accounts the Sabres best player. Unless traded, which is not likely, he will be in Buffalo through 2032. He leads by example. The Sabres don't need a "loud" captain. They have a coach that does that. If you are questioning the leadership of a person after 12 games, you probably don't understand leadership.  

[JP51]

38 minutes ago, Idemo Buffalo said:

There was an open competition for Captain. Dahlin has been being vetted/groomed for years. He is the face of the Sabres and by all accounts the Sabres best player. Unless traded, which is not likely, he will be in Buffalo through 2032. He leads by example. The Sabres don't need a "loud" captain. They have a coach that does that. If you are questioning the leadership of a person after 12 games, you probably don't understand leadership.  

Ok now that one I can buy, I dont agree with it necessarily that it was earned, but not gonna lie, I thought he or Tuch should have been named captain.  And again, I said if we get into December and this continues... not sure where we are getting 12 games from... half a season in and the team is still failing... with respect to understanding leadership LOL, lets just leave it there... again, leadership is earned... it isnt a title, it is the willingness of others to follow you.... and then ultimately successful leadership is measured by results and discretionary effort... currently I am seeing neither out of this team... With respect to loud,  I never said I wanted a loud captain?  quite honestly I believe, reluctant leaders are typically the best... they are the ones who are followed because they have those innate qualities to follow.... they dont have to say a word... they just lead... those are the most effective to me.  I was in a discussion off topic about Stephon Diggs...  This is not a natural leader who wants to be one... so he gets loud and abrasive... yet people wont follow him... but you take a guy lets say like Chris Drury... quiet unassuming and folks ran thru a wall for him...  I do like the discussion. And no, I dont know if it is the right thing to do... but we get thru December and half the season and are still losing with this consistency,, I wonder if that is not a lever to pull. 

Edited 10 hours ago by JP51

[EM88]

25 minutes ago, JP51 said:

Ok now that one I can buy, I dont agree with it necessarily that it was earned, but not gonna lie, I thought he or Tuch should have been named captain.  And again, I said if we get into December and this continues... not sure where we are getting 12 games from... half a season in and the team is still failing... with respect to understanding leadership LOL, lets just leave it there... again, leadership is earned... it isnt a title, it is the willingness of others to follow you.... and then ultimately successful leadership is measured by results and discretionary effort... currently I am seeing neither out of this team... With respect to loud,  I never said I wanted a loud captain?  quite honestly I believe, reluctant leaders are typically the best... they are the ones who are followed because they have those innate qualities to follow.... they dont have to say a word... they just lead... those are the most effective to me.  I was in a discussion off topic about Stephon Diggs...  This is not a natural leader who wants to be one... so he gets loud and abrasive... yet people wont follow him... but you take a guy lets say like Chris Drury... quiet unassuming and folks ran thru a wall for him...  I do like the discussion. And no, I dont know if it is the right thing to do... but we get thru December and half the season and are still losing with this consistency,, I wonder if that is not a lever to pull. 

I think, maybe in a very small way, they didn't want to give it to Tuch when he is only signed for this year and next year.  If you name him captain now and then do not extend him next year, going into his final year, its something that they might be afraid would look bad.

Pegula, as an owner, doesn't want even the smallest things out there to make him look cheap, or bad.

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, EM88 said:

I think, maybe in a very small way, they didn't want to give it to Tuch when he is only signed for this year and next year.  If you name him captain now and then do not extend him next year, going into his final year, its something that they might be afraid would look bad.

Pegula, as an owner, doesn't want even the smallest things out there to make him look cheap, or bad.

Yep....not saying it was the reason to not give it to Tuch....but I agree that Pegula hides from bad press. Dahlin, signed long term, was the 'easier' choice.

[JP51]

Just now, EM88 said:

I think, maybe in a very small way, they didn't want to give it to Tuch when he is only signed for this year and next year.  If you name him captain now and then do not extend him next year, going into his final year, its something that they might be afraid would look bad.

Pegula, as an owner, doesn't want even the smallest things out there to make him look cheap, or bad.

I agree, and I think they want Dahlin to be the face and to lead... I hope someday this comes true, as it stands currently, I am not seeing it... but it is early yet. Stripping the C too soon is counter productive I would agree, but at some point, is it a lever to pull... who knows maybe it sparks him...  With respect to Pegula, I agree... and in some respect I cant figure him out... we are stuck with this... 

[Pimlach]

27 minutes ago, EM88 said:

I think, maybe in a very small way, they didn't want to give it to Tuch when he is only signed for this year and next year.  If you name him captain now and then do not extend him next year, going into his final year, its something that they might be afraid would look bad.

Pegula, as an owner, doesn't want even the smallest things out there to make him look cheap, or bad.

Maybe he should at the record of his hockey team?  

[JP51]

20 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Maybe he should at the record of his hockey team?  

100% He turned his vision of Hockey Heaven in to He//

[Mr Peabody]

1 hour ago, Idemo Buffalo said:

There was an open competition for Captain. Dahlin has been being vetted/groomed for years. He is the face of the Sabres and by all accounts the Sabres best player. Unless traded, which is not likely, he will be in Buffalo through 2032. He leads by example. The Sabres don't need a "loud" captain. They have a coach that does that. If you are questioning the leadership of a person after 12 games, you probably don't understand leadership.  

If they’ve been vetting and grooming then it wasn’t  an “open” competition.  He may be the correct choice but this  smells like a PR move.  What’s he had a practice or 2 under Lindy?  Certainly this came from above Lindy.

 Having lived through good and bad leadership for 40 years at a Fortune 50 company I feel I have a solid understanding of leadership and it’s often not your shiniest resume that is the best fit.  It’s what does a specific group most need to motivate and maximize everyone’s talent.  Could be warm fuzzies or could be a kick in the a$$.  When you have a young core that’s never won anything you might want to let it play out. 
 

 

 

 

[Idemo Buffalo]

9 minutes ago, Mr Peabody said:

If they’ve been vetting and grooming then it wasn’t  an “open” competition.  He may be the correct choice but this  smells like a PR move.  What’s he had a practice or 2 under Lindy?  Certainly this came from above Lindy.

 Having lived through good and bad leadership for 40 years at a Fortune 50 company I feel I have a solid understanding of leadership and it’s often not your shiniest resume that is the best fit.  It’s what does a specific group most need to motivate and maximize everyone’s talent.  Could be warm fuzzies or could be a kick in the a$$.  When you have a young core that’s never won anything you might want to let it play out. 
 

 

 

 

 

Alex Tuch would have been the PR move, not Dahlin.  He is the local guy. The Sabres have the right captain.  Dahlin is a Sabre. Always has been. He is very good in the community as well. He also is locked up for 7 more years. It was a no-brainer.

[xzy89c1]

dumbest thing you will read on the internet today. Just absurd

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, EM88 said:

Pegula, as an owner, doesn't want even the smallest things out there to make him look cheap, or bad.

Based on his team's cap savings and direct EEE message (that has not been rescinded in words/writing by himself yet) the past 5 seasons... he looks very, very cheap.

And, per the thread: you don't take away a C after 12 games unless Dahlin were doing conduct detrimental to the team or had been arrested and wasn't ever going to play for the team again.

Edited 9 hours ago by DarthEbriate