This Team is Heading Nowhere Yet Again

[GASabresIUFAN]

No question Pegula should be blamed for how bad this franchise is, but the current mess is all Adams.   He gave the contracts to Cozens, Samuelsson and Power.  He re-signed Joki.  He traded Mitts for Bryam.  He has failed to make a move to upgrade his top 6 or top 4 D without hurting another area of his roster.  He has failed to draft and develop any defensive D.  He has failed to draft and develop a capable center or capable playmaker.  He has failed to make any in season moves to support the team.  

Edited November 3 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

No question Pegula should be blamed for how bad this franchise is, but the current mess is all Adams.   He gave the contracts to Cozens, Samuelsson and Power.  He re-signed Joki.  He traded Mitts for Bryam.  He has failed to make a move to upgrade his top 6 or top 4 D without hurting another area of his roster.  He has failed to draft and develop any defensive D.  He has failed to draft and develop a capable center or capable playmaker.  He has failed to make and in season moves to support the team.  

He traded Reinhart for almost nothing too.

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, Idemo Buffalo said:

They need to do 1 thing.  Fix the Power Play.  Once that falls into place they will be fine. We lost back to back games by a goal. Not the end of the world.

Lindy will get the Power Play fixed. Lot of hockey left.  

Is a good power play driven more by offensive talent or scheme?   Is a good PK driven more by defensive talent or scheme?  
 

Is the Sabres talent over rated?  I think there are major pieces missing. Some of the core are starting to look very overrated too.  

Edited November 3 by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

10 hours ago, EM88 said:

I do not think Cozens is 'lost'.  I think he is an inconsistent $4m player that was signed to a $7m contact.

As far as the Pegula and Adams point, I'm more on the side that Pegula is handcuffing him.  Adams may be incompetent, but we really don't know because of the handcuffing.  You have a GM that is an artist, the roster is his painting. To use your analogy, adams may be a great painter or he may be awful, but as he is wearing handcuffs we really do not know.

Cozens is a 3rd line winger right now with a second line ceiling.  Adam’s thoughts that he is 2C over Mitts was one of many blunders.  The Mitts for  Byram trade did not improve the team at all.  They needed, and still need, a defensive player that is big and strong in front of our net.  

Edited November 3 by Pimlach

[Cascade Youth]

Consumer fraud.  They are not trying to win.

[jad1]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Is a good power play driven more by offensive talent or scheme?   Is a good PK driven more by defensive talent or scheme?  
 

Is the Sabres talent over rated?  I think there are major pieces missing. Some of the core are starting to look overrated too.  

They have talent.  They lack fundamentals and urgency.  There are no Pecas or Drurys on this team.  Just a bunch of Roys and Vaneks.

This is what happens when you have a GM that is obsessed with icing the youngest team on the ice year after year.

A dozen more guys like Zucker on short term contracts could have helped the young players on the roster over the last 5 years.  But Adams didn't want to add "blockers" to the team.  Hell, even at this point we're all waiting for a 19 year old to get healthy, because he might be able to fix the top six.

We see the shortcomings of this roster game after game, yet we tune in every night hoping things will finally 'click' and they'll miraculously transform into a team that competes every shift, and is capable with keeping pace with lower end playoff teams. 

Ruff will need to work harder than any 60 year old man should have to to fix this mess.

[mjd1001]

37 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Is a good power play driven more by offensive talent or scheme?   Is a good PK driven more by defensive talent or scheme?  
 

Is the Sabres talent over rated?  I think there are major pieces missing. Some of the core are starting to look very overrated too.  

I think we can say Cozens is overrated at this point.  I'm happy with Tage overall.  Dahlin if he plays like he did the last 2 years is fine, but his play this whole season  makes him overrated. Quinn of course is overrated based on his play now.

As far as the PP, just in the past week I have been watching other teams Powerplays. Paying very close attention when watching on TV and watching replays of PP goals on the highlights.  And I'm viewing Powerplay success in a slightly different way:

-Teams Penalty killing has gotten really good. Maybe not the execution, but scheme for penalty killing. Basically, if you keep the form of the PK box, don't get out of position and don't chase, you are going to have the powerplay team control the puck on the perimeter most of the time without getting any good shots. When they force something, that is your chance to clear it.  There is no secret to Penalty killing anymore, every team tries to do it the same way, the Best PK teams are 70% not getting out of position/making mistakes and 30% how good your goalie is.

So what makes for an effective powerplay?  I think its 50% luck (the opposing team making a Cozens-like mistake of getting out of position or getting a good bounce) and 25% zone entries (just get set up) and 25% skill.  If you ever get really, REALLY bored go to NHL.com on a night when there are 7 or 8 or more games, go through the goal summaries and every time you see a PP goal watch the replay. I've done it a few times now and what I see is about 1/2 of the PP goals scored are tips, scrums in front of the net, bad bounces, stuff like that. Basically "puck luck".  On a typical night only 1/4 of the goals I saw were a result of an unreal shot or move by a player with skill.

Now, you still HAVE to gain the zone, and you still have to get those guys in front of the net to get the 'accidental' tips and the scrum goals.  But I don't now how much the coaches can do more than they are doing..its up to the players to actually execute that.  Do those simple things, and then you will be in position to get the 'puck luck' goals on the PP.

I still think the thing the Sabres don't do enough is get the scrum in front of the net goals or the tip ins because they don't just put a guy in front of the net and say...do whatever you have to do to not move from that spot. They seem to want to have 5 guys always in motion instead of 4 guys in motion and one anchor in front of the net.  Greenway and Cozens.  I'd have them out there but tell them, you are NOT part of the puck cycle, your job is to screen the goalie, force D-mean to collapse into your to give the guys on the perimeter more space, and when a shot is taken and a rebound is there, just bang away at it.

Edited November 3 by mjd1001

[Weave]

2 hours ago, CallawaySabres said:

The top eight has for the most part settled for the rest of the year. Maybe Washington or Ottawa Falls back in Detroit or Boston jumps up.
 

Buffalo won’t see it again as they currently sit at the basement of the conference, looking up to all

I was not really concerned with how many points they are behind.  And I was not really concerned because the number of teams to leap frog was low.

But it is now November and they find themselves with many teams to leap frog.  Statistically, they have about 3 weeks to get back in front of the teams that separate them from 8th place.

If playoffs was the goal, they have set themselves up for failure.

[Pimlach]

43 minutes ago, jad1 said:

They have talent.  They lack fundamentals and urgency.  There are no Pecas or Drurys on this team.  Just a bunch of Roys and Vaneks.

This is what happens when you have a GM that is obsessed with icing the youngest team on the ice year after year.

A dozen more guys like Zucker on short term contracts could have helped the young players on the roster over the last 5 years.  But Adams didn't want to add "blockers" to the team.  Hell, even at this point we're all waiting for a 19 year old to get healthy, because he might be able to fix the top six.

We see the shortcomings of this roster game after game, yet we tune in every night hoping things will finally 'click' and they'll miraculously transform into a team that competes every shift, and is capable with keeping pace with lower end playoff teams. 

Ruff will need to work harder than any 60 year old man should have to to fix this mess.

I’m starting to think the talent of Adams Core is overrated or maybe incorrectly developed.  The PP (top 6 players) and PK (bottom 6) would be better if the talent was better.  The are both terrible   

 Examples of forwards lack of talent, leading to incorrect slotting:  

1. Cozens is a 3rd line winger, not a 2C at this time in his career. 
2.  Tuch is an excellent 3rd line player on a cup challenger, a very good 2nd line player on most teams, an inconsistent 1st line forward   

3.  Quinn - 3rd line scoring contributions without the needed defensive play to stick in the lineup. Should be on the bench, he brings nothing. 
4.  Benson - 19 years old and rushed onto a bad team and into the top 6 but scores and fits more like a middle 6.  
5.  Zucker - at the end of his career as a solid middle 6 and he looks like the best winger on this team right now.  Think about that.  
6.  Greenway - a 3rd or 4th line guy on a good team, on Buffalo he gets asked to move to 2nd line, even 1st line at times.  
7.  McLeod -  good 3rd line center on a strong team, now asked to take on 2C role on a poor team.  
8.  Krebs - all of a sudden he is a 3C because of failures in top 6.   He is spare forward at best on a good team.  
 

I still question Tage as a true 1C.  He is a first liner, but the PP needs a puck carrying setup guy.  Tage is a guy you feed.  Dahlin is not on the scoresheet anymore.  I think we have to re-think the talent, especially the top 6 and the top defensive pairings. 

Defense  

Dahlin, Power, Byram. -  what are they bringing to the PP or the PK?  How much diversity in skill do these guys bring?   Why did we trade for Byram and then re-sign Joker?  That is 4 similar skill sets.  

Muel - was his signing and the commitment to him a good move?  Is the A on the jersey making him a consistent player and a team leader?   I think he could be solid and strong back there but he does not step up.  

Edited November 3 by Pimlach

[Archie Lee]

This starts with the summer of 2023 when we opted to make no appreciable changes to a coaching staff and very young roster that missed the playoffs by one point. Every off-season and trade deadline that you don’t at least get incrementally better, until you are a contender, is a lost opportunity. 

We had a young coach in Rochester in Peca, who was getting opportunities around the NHL. Rather than make a move to promote him to Buffalo, Adams told him there were no spots. Imagine a GM passing on a young coach who is wanted in NY by a veteran HC like Laviolette, because he has Christie and Ellis, two coaches who, respectfully, were not in demand.

Then we opt to do nothing in the player movement period, other than add Clifton and E. Johnson. 

Then we get to camp and get distracted by the shiniest new toys in Levi and Benson. Neither were ready. I know there are lots who disagree on Benson and think he was the shining light of last season. I saw, and still see, a kid whose value should be soaring as he dominates his junior hockey peers. Right now we should be thrilled with the possibility of either adding Benson in the next 24 months, or moving him in a package for that elusive top line forward.  Instead, we have turned him into another struggling pro, as though “he plays a mature game for his age and the offence will come”, is what our goal should be for 18-19 years olds. 

Since that off-season we are playing catch-up and it doesn’t help that we don’t operate the way normal teams do.  The recent failings are still fresh. The Mittelstadt trade. The sham coaching search and staff changes. The buyout of Skinner and failure to use the cap savings, perhaps by design.  Quinn being viewed as a near untouchable asset. Kulich now being mismanaged. Levi missing key playing opportunity by being in the NHL. The continued diminishment of asset value that comes from being terrified of moving the wrong young player or prospect.  The very notion that we would go into a must win year with the youngest roster in the NHL. 

It is all quite discouraging. 

[Goldseatsaud]

Sabres have zero grit. Why does Boston always play like Boston when players come and go. 

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Cascade Youth said:

Consumer fraud.  They are not trying to win.

If I paid any money, I’d be pissed.

Luckily I haven’t.

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Everyone says Pegula is handcuffing Adams, but I doubt Pegula ran out and said “let’s give Cozens $7M”.  

We know that Adam’s sucks as a GM. He didn’t bring in enough good players with all the capital he acquired from gutting the team post Krueger.  He botched the goaltending, giving a rebuilding team no chance and costing a young Core a Playoff birth  

Adams thought all his draft picks would quickly develop into stars.  They haven’t yet.  He never understood the timeline.  

He failed at finding high quality coaches, and he let one go to the Rangers.    

Still waiting for Kevyn to do something truly positive with this team.  

Excellent summarization. The basic point you are making is that this franchise has failed due to its accumulation of bad or at least unwise hockey decisions by the staff. We have had the draft capital, cap room and enough player options in the market to upgrade the roster. The GM didn't or more likely was incapable of using his resources to make this team more competitive. The GM's a small picture guy in a big picture position. That's an incongruity that leads to perennial mediocrity. It's exasperating. 

[DarthEbriate]

27 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

This starts with the summer of 2023 when we opted to make no appreciable changes to a coaching staff and very young roster that missed the playoffs by one point. Every off-season and trade deadline that you don’t at least get incrementally better, until you are a contender, is a lost opportunity. 

With Adams, it starts even in 2022-23 at the trade deadline. The Sabres had the best winning percentage a few weeks before the deadline of the wildcard teams. They had the best chance to make it, and Adams basically stayed pat. Why? Because it was a young team and it wasn't their window yet. They hadn't made the playoffs in 11 years and he didn't had a veteran D. He added Greenway, which, great. Not enough. His defensive move at that deadline was this: D Chase Priskie to ANH for D Austin Strand.

The rumored defensive move? Chychrun. But GM Sheevyn wasn't willing move a prospect like Savoie. Here's the issue. Who is Chychrun? He's Dahlin/Power/Byram. He's not overly physical; and he's not a defensive defenseman. He was just a pre-Byram Byram with a first-round draft pedigree.

[Flashsabre]

When people point to Adams for this failure instead of Pegula ask yourself what other owner would put a guy with no front office experience in charge of their franchise.  Pegula doesn’t trust NHL people so he put in charge the guy who was running the rink that would listen and do whatever Pegula says. There is one constant in the going on 14 years of no playoffs, ownership.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

I’m starting to think the talent of Adams Core is overrated or maybe incorrectly developed.  

I think, at its core, this is the overwhelming issue.

And the state of the franchise is such that supplementing what we do have is supremely challenged by the state of the franchise making it a no fly zone for nearly every player, coach and executive of worth in the NHL.

 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

This starts with the summer of 2023 when we opted to make no appreciable changes to a coaching staff and very young roster that missed the playoffs by one point. Every off-season and trade deadline that you don’t at least get incrementally better, until you are a contender, is a lost opportunity. 

We had a young coach in Rochester in Peca, who was getting opportunities around the NHL. Rather than make a move to promote him to Buffalo, Adams told him there were no spots. Imagine a GM passing on a young coach who is wanted in NY by a veteran HC like Laviolette, because he has Christie and Ellis, two coaches who, respectfully, were not in demand.

Then we opt to do nothing in the player movement period, other than add Clifton and E. Johnson. 

Then we get to camp and get distracted by the shiniest new toys in Levi and Benson. Neither were ready. I know there are lots who disagree on Benson and think he was the shining light of last season. I saw, and still see, a kid whose value should be soaring as he dominates his junior hockey peers. Right now we should be thrilled with the possibility of either adding Benson in the next 24 months, or moving him in a package for that elusive top line forward.  Instead, we have turned him into another struggling pro, as though “he plays a mature game for his age and the offence will come”, is what our goal should be for 18-19 years olds. 

Since that off-season we are playing catch-up and it doesn’t help that we don’t operate the way normal teams do.  The recent failings are still fresh. The Mittelstadt trade. The sham coaching search and staff changes. The buyout of Skinner and failure to use the cap savings, perhaps by design.  Quinn being viewed as a near untouchable asset. Kulich now being mismanaged. Levi missing key playing opportunity by being in the NHL. The continued diminishment of asset value that comes from being terrified of moving the wrong young player or prospect.  The very notion that we would go into a must win year with the youngest roster in the NHL. 

It is all quite discouraging. 

Yes indeed.  

I am seeing that our talent is not as good as thought, or probably just poorly developed.  
 

We rushed our kids and now we are upset that they leveled out and their growth is slowing or stunted or even regressed at this point in time.  
 

Cozens and Quinn are suffering from it right now.  They will just have to play through it and get support from the rest of the lineup, but they were expected to be the 2nd line and help pull a losing team into playoffs.   It appears that Adams thinks a 19 year old Benson would finish the second line?  No pressure guys, go do it!  
 

Then there is Dahlin. 12 games. 1g, 7 pts, +2.   That is 31st in the league for defensemen in scoring.  It’s early,  but we need his play to carry us.  He slumps, we can’t score, and we sit with the bottom dwellers.  
 

 

Edited November 3 by Pimlach

[steveoat87]

It is very clear to me that Granato was not a very good coach.  For a so-called development person, there was little player development.  No teaching of fundamentals and perseverance.  Too much permission for sloppy play.

As we just saw in the world series, even if you have a team with a lot of talent (The Yankees), talent can't overcome sloppy play when it counts.

[bunomatic]

Once again Patchwork Adams rolls out the youngest team in the league with cap to spare. Based on results this is a surefire recipe for disaster. And he continues to follow that recipe every year like its some kind of mensa badge of honor. Giving huge responsibility to a couple more kids every season. Never really making them earn their icetime. This is not how this league works. Add to that the fact that he lets holes in the roster fester. Like the PP. like the lack of gritty stay at home defenders. Centermen. Goaltending. If he attemps to fix the hole its like playing wack a mole where filling one hole opens up another. Adams needs to go and Terry needs to stay out of the kitchen.

Edited November 3 by bunomatic

[French Collection]

6 hours ago, #freejame said:

You guys are all just soft fans. I went out and bought six jerseys after last night lost. Hopefully we can go get a center now for the top 6! Be part of the solution!

No need to buy, you can probably find them on the sidewalk.

[Indabuff]

3 hours ago, EM88 said:

 His involvement in Erhoff 

Is that s.o.b. still getting paid?

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, bunomatic said:

Once again Patchwork Adams rolls out the youngest team in the league with cap to spare. Based on results this is a surefire recipe for disaster. And he continues to follow that recipe every year like its some kind of mensa badge of honor. Giving huge responsibility to a couple more kids every season. Never really making them earn their icetime. This is not how this league works. Add to that the fact that he lets holes in the roster fester. Like the PP. like the lack of gritty stay at home defenders. Centermen. Goaltending. If he attemps to fix the hole its like playing wack a mole where filling one hole opens up another. Adams needs to go and Terry needs to stay out of the kitchen.

Shhhh.  The Cap Space is reserved for signing his next prospects and for select players that want to be here.  

[bunomatic]

1 minute ago, Pimlach said:

Shhhh.  The Cap Space is reserved for signing his next prospects and for select players that want to be here.  

Aiyaya😵‍💫

[Idemo Buffalo]

1 hour ago, French Collection said:

No need to buy, you can probably find them on the sidewalk.

They play 4 of their next 5 at home.  You might think differently in 2 weeks. 

[Pimlach]

20 minutes ago, Idemo Buffalo said:

They play 4 of their next 5 at home.  You might think differently in 2 weeks. 

I wish they would have showed up against the Isles, the fans are not going to come out for much longer.   Home games have not been an advantage for about 15 years or more.